Jihad?

[an liathroid beag]

Is radical Islam waging a Jihad with the Liberal Democracies?

Some statements that we should carefully consider.

"Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you. Thanks to our Islamic laws we will conquer you" -Iman at a conference in Turkey.

"If ever there is a Muslim majority in Ireland, Sharia law should be declared"-Ali Selem,secetary general of the Irish council of Imans.

"Everybody had better embrace Islam or people will start flying planes into buildings again" --Kahlid Kelly Irish Jihadist from the Swat valley.

We should also consider the fate of those with the courage to speak out.
Theo Van Gogh, murdered because he made a film about the treatment of Muslim women.
Salman Rushdie on whom a death sentence was passed for being critical of Islam in his writings.

It is the teaching of Islam that the existence of a world not ruled by Muslims is a constant threat to peace and peace can only be achieved by imposing an Islamic peace,and that Jihad is the duty of every islamic community.l

[10PennySweets]

Shut up you fucking eejit. You're always on about some shit.

What about bulldozing houses and murdering families to make way for New York Jews to live in Palestine?

You are full of shit. Dickhead.

[an liathroid beag]

Impossible to engage in a rational debate with an idiot--whose only response is personal abuse--at least thankfully we live in a Liberal Democracy where such freedoms are guaranteed !

[10PennySweets]

Impossible to engage in a rational debate with an idiot--whose only response is personal abuse--at least thankfully we live in a Liberal Democracy where such freedoms are guaranteed !

Nothing Liberal about the vile posts you come up with. narrow minded bigot

[an liathroid beag]

Nothing Liberal about the vile posts you come up with. narrow minded bigot

The Sweety Fatwa? and more personal abuse--pointless and a waste of time in making any further response and lending any semblence of credence to your gibberish.

[diar2me]

Is radical Islam waging a Jihad with the Liberal Democracies?

Some statements that we should carefully consider.

"Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you. Thanks to our Islamic laws we will conquer you" -Iman at a conference in Turkey.

"If ever there is a Muslim majority in Ireland, Sharia law should be declared"-Ali Selem,secetary general of the Irish council of Imans.

"Everybody had better embrace Islam or people will start flying planes into buildings again" --Kahlid Kelly Irish Jihadist from the Swat valley.

We should also consider the fate of those with the courage to speak out.
Theo Van Gogh, murdered because he made a film about the treatment of Muslim women.
Salman Rushdie on whom a death sentence was passed for being critical of Islam in his writings.

It is the teaching of Islam that the existence of a world not ruled by Muslims is a constant threat to peace and peace can only be achieved by imposing an Islamic peace,and that Jihad is the duty of every islamic community.l

I am sick of the PC crew. We are not Muslim nor do we want to be. If we were to go live in their fucking "countries" we would have to conform to their rules and religion. Why does it not work in reverse. We are constantly conforming to their ways.... Why should we? Bit of advice to the Muslim community........ If you don't like our ways and traditions Fuck off home!

[debgor2]

They love Ireland. Where else can Muslims get drunk, swear and fuck withouy losing body parts?

[o_2_b_a_rebel]

Is radical Islam waging a Jihad with the Liberal Democracies?

Some statements that we should carefully consider.

"Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you. Thanks to our Islamic laws we will conquer you" -Iman at a conference in Turkey.

"If ever there is a Muslim majority in Ireland, Sharia law should be declared"-Ali Selem,secetary general of the Irish council of Imans.

"Everybody had better embrace Islam or people will start flying planes into buildings again" --Kahlid Kelly Irish Jihadist from the Swat valley.
l

Who are these people that you are quoting? Some 'Irish Jihadist from the Swat Valley'????
Fucks sake im more worried about the fact that these people are getting quoted as the voice of Islam, than the content of what they are saying.
That says much more dont you think?

Khalid fucking Kelly like:oops:

[pudgee]

Great thread.

[Smeggle]

I am sick of the PC crew. We are not Muslim nor do we want to be. If we were to go live in their fucking "countries" we would have to conform to their rules and religion. Why does it not work in reverse. We are constantly conforming to their ways.... Why should we? Bit of advice to the Muslim community........ If you don't like our ways and traditions Fuck off home!

Repped http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/%7Epeoplesr/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[pudgee]

Shut up you fucking eejit. You're always on about some shit.

What about bulldozing houses and murdering families to make way for New York Jews to live in Palestine?

You are full of shit. Dickhead.

You do realise that the two topics aren't related, don't you?

[Mossybanks]

Great thread.


:lol:

[o_2_b_a_rebel]

:lol:

that smilie you are continuously posting these days is brutal ODLL. It is the picture that i have in my head of Youghal Exile.

you wouldnt post it again in response to this now would you....

[an liathroid beag]

Who are these people that you are quoting? Some 'Irish Jihadist from the Swat Valley'????
Fucks sake im more worried about the fact that these people are getting quoted as the voice of Islam, than the content of what they are saying.
That says much more dont you think?

Khalid fucking Kelly like:oops:

Not the voice of Islam--but examples of the voice of Radical Islam

[pudgee]

It is the teaching of Islam that the existence of a world not ruled by Muslims is a constant threat to peace and peace can only be achieved by imposing an Islamic peace,and that Jihad is the duty of every islamic community.l

No it's not.
Apart from the jihad bit, but there's a difference between the Quranic concept of jihad and modern jihadism

[o_2_b_a_rebel]

Not the voice of Islam--but examples of the voice of Radical Islam

Its the likes of you that gives these nuts their voice.
I know a few nutters in the pub that talk about stringing up gays and putting blacks working in fields but i dont consider these views worthy of being repeated.
Radical Islam of course will be connected to views like this. They would not be too radical if they weren't.

[pudgee]

Is radical Islam waging a Jihad with the Liberal Democracies?



Radical Islamism is, yes.

Well done on noticing.

[Mossybanks]

that smilie you are continuously posting these days is brutal ODLL. It is the picture that i have in my head of Youghal Exile.

you wouldnt post it again in response to this now would you....

No, I wouldn't dream of posting it again, I take on board what you have said, and in future I will use this:

http://www.webdesign.org/img_articles/7480/shiny-smilie_20.gif

[pudgee]

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/NYLT1/durka.jpg

[an liathroid beag]

Mainstream Islam is not antidemocratic, however the selective and out of context intepretation of the Koran by extremist and fundamentalist elements within Islam, to inflame hatred of the non Muslim world is a very real threat to the freedoms that we enjoy.

This threat is exasperated by a reluctance to examine and address these dangers because of a very real fear, of the fundamentalist PC brigade, accusing anybody of raising such issues as Islamophobic and bigoted.

It is a great irony that such extremely violent and intolerant groups are facilitated and allowed to flourish by our extreme, and and in this case, misguided tolerance.

Even the American military are not immune. They had ample warnings that Major Nidal Malik Hassan was a threat and did nothing about it. They hesitated to act when they considered the probability of being sued by the intimidating and powerful CAIR (Council of American Islamic relations) citing religious or racial discrimination.

Some people still brave the approprium of the PC brigade to ask the hard questions, such as the Italian author Oriana Fallaci in her book THE RAGE AND THE PRIDE. It is surprising that she had the courage to publish the follow up, THE FORCE OF REASON, given the intellectual lynching she recieved from the usual suspects after the publication of the first book.

With people of courage and integrity like Fallachi, we can still live in hope!

[pudgee]

name the usual suspects

[blackforest]

Is radical Islam waging a Jihad with the Liberal Democracies?

Some statements that we should carefully consider.

"Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you. Thanks to our Islamic laws we will conquer you" -Iman at a conference in Turkey.

"If ever there is a Muslim majority in Ireland, Sharia law should be declared"-Ali Selem,secetary general of the Irish council of Imans.

"Everybody had better embrace Islam or people will start flying planes into buildings again" --Kahlid Kelly Irish Jihadist from the Swat valley.

We should also consider the fate of those with the courage to speak out.
Theo Van Gogh, murdered because he made a film about the treatment of Muslim women.
Salman Rushdie on whom a death sentence was passed for being critical of Islam in his writings.

It is the teaching of Islam that the existence of a world not ruled by Muslims is a constant threat to peace and peace can only be achieved by imposing an Islamic peace,and that Jihad is the duty of every islamic community.l

Shut up you fool and get real with the real issues in this country!

[an liathroid beag]

Shut up you fool and get real with the real issues in this country!

So now we can only discuss the real issues of this country, like hare coursing priests and teachers---are you a bank economist by any chance??:rolleyes:

[an liathroid beag]

name the usual suspects

Just three examples--Adel Smith founder of the Union of Italian Muslims brought a lawsuit against her for being offensive to Isalm and called on Muslims to "eliminate" her.

The Swiss Islamic Centre sought her extradition to Switzerland, which an Italian judge refused.

The Ligue Des Droits De Homme brought a lawsuit accusing her of defaming Islam.----so much for free speech.

If she had written the same about any of the Christian Religions nobody would have batted an eyelid!

[an liathroid beag]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9J1x4XhglA

Oriana Fallachi RIP.

[the conductor]

Jihadists are at war with Liberal Democracies because Western Terrorist States masquerading as liberal and free keep interfereing wherever they see fit with huge scale murderous consequences and have been doing so for centuries...

[pudgee]

Jihadists are at war with Liberal Democracies because Western Terrorist States masquerading as liberal and free keep interfereing wherever they see fit with huge scale murderous consequences and have been doing so for centuries...

#fail

[the conductor]

#fail

#FAIL yourself... Fascist!

[pudgee]

#FAIL yourself... Fascist!

Fascist? I mean, really?

I knew Militant were never that hot on theory, but just calling randon people 'fascist' is a bit silly.

On what grounds do you call me a fascist?

[the conductor]

for fuck sake... im worse for responding ...

do you want a tissue..?? go on call me something back and we're even...

[pudgee]

for fuck sake... im worse for responding ...

do you want a tissue..?? go on call me something back and we're even...

Not how it works.

On what grounds do you call me a fascist?

[the conductor]

Not how it works.

On what grounds do you call me a fascist?

im sorry guarda ... i mean your honour ...

im really not interested in explaining a throw away comment over the internet to an over sensitive faceless charachter that means nothing in the world to anyone other than on this pretend world of neverending oneupmanship...

[pudgee]

im sorry guarda ... i mean your honour ...

im really not interested in explaining a throw away comment over the internet to an over sensitive faceless charachter that means nothing in the world to anyone other than on this pretend world of neverending oneupmanship...

Comrade, in my world, 'fascist' is a serious allegation.

Not, apparently, in yours.

Now explain or retract.

[Jaco]

http://www.independent.co.u k/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/renouncing-islamism-to-the-brink-and-back-again-1821215.html

Excellent stuff from Hari, a bit long but should be of interest to most posters here.

[an liathroid beag]

http://www.independent.co.u k/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/renouncing-islamism-to-the-brink-and-back-again-1821215.html

Excellent stuff from Hari, a bit long but should be of interest to most posters here.

Thanks for that-excellent article---a few of the posters who hurl the insult bigot or fascist around this forum should read it!

[pudgee]

Thanks for that-excellent article---a few of the posters who hurl the insult bigot or fascist around this forum should read it!

Quite. Indeed, poor Johann was under police protection for a while earlier this year after an article he wrote critical of Islam was reproduced in India.

However, small ball, my problem with people like you, and Fallaci, is that often concern is not shown for the people who really suffer from Islamism and jihadism - Muslims.

There is, if we are honest, little prospect of sharia law in Europe, at least on a governmental level. The real worries are a) people how live in countries where Islamists are in control or have a real prospect of taking control, and b) people in western societies that equivocate about the rule of law.

There is a stand to be made against Islamism, but it must be made with the people most likely to suffer from it.

This is where organisations such as British Muslims for Secular Democracy, the Quillam Foundation, One Law for All, and Southall Black Sisters must be supported - rather than painted into the 'muslim' corner.

[an liathroid beag]

Quite. Indeed, poor Johann was under police protection for a while earlier this year after an article he wrote critical of Islam was reproduced in India.

However, small ball, my problem with people like you, and Fallaci, is that often concern is not shown for the people who really suffer from Islamism and jihadism - Muslims.

There is, if we are honest, little prospect of sharia law in Europe, at least on a governmental level. The real worries are a) people how live in countries where Islamists are in control or have a real prospect of taking control, and b) people in western societies that equivocate about the rule of law.

There is a stand to be made against Islamism, but it must be made with the people most likely to suffer from it.

This is where organisations such as British Muslims for Secular Democracy, the Quillam Foundation, One Law for All, and Southall Black Sisters must be supported - rather than painted into the 'muslim' corner.

Excellent Point!

[Professor Piehead]

Quite. Indeed, poor Johann was under police protection for a while earlier this year after an article he wrote critical of Islam was reproduced in India.

However, small ball, my problem with people like you, and Fallaci, is that often concern is not shown for the people who really suffer from Islamism and jihadism - Muslims.

There is, if we are honest, little prospect of sharia law in Europe, at least on a governmental level. The real worries are a) people how live in countries where Islamists are in control or have a real prospect of taking control, and b) people in western societies that equivocate about the rule of law.

There is a stand to be made against Islamism, but it must be made with the people most likely to suffer from it.

This is where organisations such as British Muslims for Secular Democracy, the Quillam Foundation, One Law for All, and Southall Black Sisters must be supported - rather than painted into the 'muslim' corner.

Wake up.


No wonder we are sleepwalking to Eurabia.

Some peacful muslims, suffering from Islamism, yesterday....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mXOJsfJyd74/ShKJApe6_pI/AAAAAAAACJ8/eUXrjO9IAMw/s400/Muslims+for+peace.jp g

[pudgee]

Wake up.


No wonder we are sleepwalking to Eurabia.

Some peacful muslims, suffering from Islamism, yesterday....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mXOJsfJyd74/ShKJApe6_pI/AAAAAAAACJ8/eUXrjO9IAMw/s400/Muslims+for+peace.jp g

Piehead, I was at that demo. And the Hizb Ut Tahrir one the week after. I've been spat at by Hizb Ut Tahrir members, in fact. I've demonstrated against pro-Iran goons on al-Quds day, and argued with Al-Muhajirounis in Whitechapel.

Trust me kid. I know of what I speak. I'm awake.

Some peaceful Muslims, standing up to Islamism, yesterday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwy1W0IvnMg&feature=player_embed ded#

[an liathroid beag]

The Swiss, of all people, are holding a refrendum on banning Minarets. the government is opposing it. Feminist groups in Switzerland are backing the proposal, citing the oppression of Muslim women. The land of Heidi is apparently not keen on the call of the Minaret.

[blackspudmuncher]

Now...Ya dont have to look very far from yr doorstep to see what religious intolerance does to communities...have ya not been readin the newspapers or watchin telly at all? Its only been 10 years since the peace process began and yer already forgettin what the peace process means.

Imagine if the powers that be in Northern Ireland suddenly started saying that peace is impossible cos Martineen Nolan from West Belfast was drunk one night and started singing rebel songs?
Jeez..u could hear the people whispering..."they are secretly planning to kill us all in our beds..or worse..convert us all to catholicism!"

Thats the level of this threads opening post. Pure bull.

Once ya clear away all the hype and the smearing and the drum beating u realise that normal people..no matter what their religion...are not interested in anything more than a peaceful place to bring up their kids with dignity.

There has been churches with thousands of Christians living in muslim countries since Islam was founded. Its not a big deal to have a few mosques in yer own country.
And as for the muslims 'multiplying' , wasnt that the racist agenda's rhetoric about Catholics in Northern Ireland? Are ya sayin the same that they said? It was abhorrent then as it is now.

Fear of something is usually because of ignorance of it.
Learn the truth about people and dont be afraid to listen.

After all those years of the Troubles..didnt anyone actually learn anything worthwhile?

[10PennySweets]

Comrade, in my world, 'fascist' is a serious allegation.

Not, apparently, in yours.

Now explain or retract.

ha ha ha ha ha ha. What planet is that?

[10PennySweets]

Thanks for that-excellent article---a few of the posters who hurl the insult bigot or fascist around this forum should read it!


Those British are crazy.

[an liathroid beag]

Now...Ya dont have to look very far from yr doorstep to see what religious intolerance does to communities...have ya not been readin the newspapers or watchin telly at all? Its only been 10 years since the peace process began and yer already forgettin what the peace process means.

Imagine if the powers that be in Northern Ireland suddenly started saying that peace is impossible cos Martineen Nolan from West Belfast was drunk one night and started singing rebel songs?
Jeez..u could hear the people whispering..."they are secretly planning to kill us all in our beds..or worse..convert us all to catholicism!"

Thats the level of this threads opening post. Pure bull.

Once ya clear away all the hype and the smearing and the drum beating u realise that normal people..no matter what their religion...are not interested in anything more than a peaceful place to bring up their kids with dignity.

There has been churches with thousands of Christians living in muslim countries since Islam was founded. Its not a big deal to have a few mosques in yer own country.
And as for the muslims 'multiplying' , wasnt that the racist agenda's rhetoric about Catholics in Northern Ireland? Are ya sayin the same that they said? It was abhorrent then as it is now.

Fear of something is usually because of ignorance of it.
Learn the truth about people and dont be afraid to listen.

After all those years of the Troubles..didnt anyone actually learn anything worthwhile?

I am glad that you agree that we should be intolerant of intolerance.

However I feel that you have missed the general thrust of my posts which was that we should not facilitate, by our indifference, the spread of radical Islam with its repressive and intolerant philosophy and with its violent antipathy to the values of liberal democracy.

As previous posters have pointed out, Militant Islam inflicts much pain and suffering on moderate Muslims and these need the help of the Democracies
to overcome this very real and violent threat.

As for your hypothetical Martineen Nolan, just imagine for a moment that he was drunk and singing rebel anti-establishment songs in Teheran. I expect that his sentence would be a death sentence--in a country where the execution rate is second only to China.

Or a hypothetical Martina Nolan reporting a rape to the police where the Hadd offences of Sharia Law is applied. Safiya Huseini reported her rape to the police in Northern Nigeria. She was convicted of adultery and sentenced to death by stoning under Sharia law. The court in its magnaminity ruled that the sentence could not be carried out until she had finished breast feeding!
Are some people trying to say that we should be tolerant of this barbarity?

[pudgee]

ha ha ha ha ha ha. What planet is that?

It's called the real world where people actually engage in actual politics. Ever been? It's hell.

[BangorFeen]

It's called the real world where people actually engage in actual politics. Ever been? It's hell.
They expect you to work and all

[an liathroid beag]

When in Waterford yesterday, in the shopping centre, in the centre of the city I saw a woman in a Burka. She was completely covered from head to foot in a brown Burka with only her eyes visible. She obviously was a young woman holding two small children by the hand and walking behind her husband.

My first reaction was to feel extremely sorry for this young woman reduced to a non person by this veil.

But then I began to wonder, perhaps this woman was happy with her lot, and who was I with my liberal prejudices to pass judgement. However I did not suceed in dispelling my doubts

[ubernerd]

Is radical Islam waging a Jihad with the Liberal Democracies?

Some statements that we should carefully consider.

"Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you. Thanks to our Islamic laws we will conquer you" -Iman at a conference in Turkey.

"If ever there is a Muslim majority in Ireland, Sharia law should be declared"-Ali Selem,secetary general of the Irish council of Imans.

"Everybody had better embrace Islam or people will start flying planes into buildings again" --Kahlid Kelly Irish Jihadist from the Swat valley.

We should also consider the fate of those with the courage to speak out.
Theo Van Gogh, murdered because he made a film about the treatment of Muslim women.
Salman Rushdie on whom a death sentence was passed for being critical of Islam in his writings.

It is the teaching of Islam that the existence of a world not ruled by Muslims is a constant threat to peace and peace can only be achieved by imposing an Islamic peace,and that Jihad is the duty of every islamic community.l

Imam: Muslim cleric.
Iman: David Bowie's missus.

[blackspudmuncher]

I am glad that you agree that we should be intolerant of intolerance.

However I feel that you have missed the general thrust of my posts which was that we should not facilitate, by our indifference, the spread of radical Islam with its repressive and intolerant philosophy and with its violent antipathy to the values of liberal democracy.

As previous posters have pointed out, Militant Islam inflicts much pain and suffering on moderate Muslims and these need the help of the Democracies
to overcome this very real and violent threat.

As for your hypothetical Martineen Nolan, just imagine for a moment that he was drunk and singing rebel anti-establishment songs in Teheran. I expect that his sentence would be a death sentence--in a country where the execution rate is second only to China.

Or a hypothetical Martina Nolan reporting a rape to the police where the Hadd offences of Sharia Law is applied. Safiya Huseini reported her rape to the police in Northern Nigeria. She was convicted of adultery and sentenced to death by stoning under Sharia law. The court in its magnaminity ruled that the sentence could not be carried out until she had finished breast feeding!
Are some people trying to say that we should be tolerant of this barbarity?


I think its you who might have missed the thrust of my argument. We were talking about intolerance specifically in Ireland and if you read 'an liathrod beags' original post and some of the follow up posts you will see that they are
implying that if there is a mosque in your neighborhood, then that mosque is part of an invasion of a radical movement bent on creating a Sharia law state there.
Thats the language of intolerance and xenophobia.

I was reading a story , whether its true or not, I cant be sure, but the story seems logical. It goes like this.
Apparently the original muslims (after muhammed died) eventually arrived at jerusalem ,the Caliph Omar was standing outside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and because of its association with Jesus, he was urged to pray there by his followers. Omar said, "If I pray there, then its certain that after I'm dead some overzealous muslims will turn this church into a mosque." He decided not to pray there for that reason and instead prayed elsewhere, and sure enough a mosque was built on the spot where he prayed.

If that story is true and its seems reasonable that it is, then thats a very honourable gest, totally in contradiction with the views of many in this forum. Why is that story not propagated? Instead we want to see negatives.Racism, intolerance, zealotry are a part of all human beings.Wherever you find ignorance you find these diseases.We are all guilty of these in some form or other. Thats the whole message of Jesus. Look at yourselves before you look outwards. Its a question of education. There are a majority of good people in this world, and no matter what their religion they all want the same thing..Peace , stability and dignity for their children. We will have to shed our prejudices and engage in education.

[Professor Piehead]

I think its you who might have missed the thrust of my argument. We were talking about intolerance specifically in Ireland and if you read 'an liathrod beags' original post and some of the follow up posts you will see that they are
implying that if there is a mosque in your neighborhood, then that mosque is part of an invasion of a radical movement bent on creating a Sharia law state there.Thats the language of intolerance and xenophobia.

I was reading a story , whether its true or not, I cant be sure, but the story seems logical. It goes like this.
Apparently the original muslims (after muhammed died) eventually arrived at jerusalem ,the Caliph Omar was standing outside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and because of its association with Jesus, he was urged to pray there by his followers. Omar said, "If I pray there, then its certain that after I'm dead some overzealous muslims will turn this church into a mosque." He decided not to pray there for that reason and instead prayed elsewhere, and sure enough a mosque was built on the spot where he prayed.

If that story is true and its seems reasonable that it is, then thats a very honourable gest, totally in contradiction with the views of many in this forum. Why is that story not propagated? Instead we want to see negatives.Racism, intolerance, zealotry are a part of all human beings.Wherever you find ignorance you find these diseases.We are all guilty of these in some form or other. Thats the whole message of Jesus. Look at yourselves before you look outwards. Its a question of education. There are a majority of good people in this world, and no matter what their religion they all want the same thing..Peace , stability and dignity for their children. We will have to shed our prejudices and engage in education.

It's happened in the UK.....

http://www.timesonline.co.u k/tol/comment/faith/article4749183.ece

Surely you don't want the to make the same mistake here.

The intolerant and xenophobic David Cameron probably says it best...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7264740.stm

[an liathroid beag]

I think its you who might have missed the thrust of my argument. We were talking about intolerance specifically in Ireland and if you read 'an liathrod beags' original post and some of the follow up posts you will see that they are
implying that if there is a mosque in your neighborhood, then that mosque is part of an invasion of a radical movement bent on creating a Sharia law state there.
Thats the language of intolerance and xenophobia.

I was reading a story , whether its true or not, I cant be sure, but the story seems logical. It goes like this.
Apparently the original muslims (after muhammed died) eventually arrived at jerusalem ,the Caliph Omar was standing outside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and because of its association with Jesus, he was urged to pray there by his followers. Omar said, "If I pray there, then its certain that after I'm dead some overzealous muslims will turn this church into a mosque." He decided not to pray there for that reason and instead prayed elsewhere, and sure enough a mosque was built on the spot where he prayed.

If that story is true and its seems reasonable that it is, then thats a very honourable gest, totally in contradiction with the views of many in this forum. Why is that story not propagated? Instead we want to see negatives.Racism, intolerance, zealotry are a part of all human beings.Wherever you find ignorance you find these diseases.We are all guilty of these in some form or other. Thats the whole message of Jesus. Look at yourselves before you look outwards. Its a question of education. There are a majority of good people in this world, and no matter what their religion they all want the same thing..Peace , stability and dignity for their children. We will have to shed our prejudices and engage in education.

Again you misintepret my posts. I have no problem with muslims only with radiclam islam and its violent manifestations. Indeed my work brings me into contact with many muslims mainly of Pakistani and Turkish origin and these moderate Muslims share my views with regard to radical islam.

Indeed the state of Pakistan is under severe threat from radical islamists with almost daily suicide bombings. Imagine the consequences of these extreme elements gaining control of Pakistans nuclear weapons.

I also consider that the recent Swiss vote banning the construction of Minarets to be discriminatory and offensive as the same ban does not apply to the structures of other religions

[Professor Piehead]

Again you misintepret my posts. I have no problem with muslims only with radiclam islam and its violent manifestations. Indeed my work brings me into contact with many muslims mainly of Pakistani and Turkish origin and these moderate Muslims share my views with regard to radical islam.

Indeed the state of Pakistan is under severe threat from radical islamists with almost daily suicide bombings. Imagine the consequences of these extreme elements gaining control of Pakistans nuclear weapons.

I also consider that the recent Swiss vote banning the construction of Minarets to be discriminatory and offensive as the same ban does not apply to the structures of other religions

Isn't democracy terrible.

[starchaser]

Is radical Islam waging a Jihad with the Liberal Democracies?

Some statements that we should carefully consider.

"Thanks to your democratic laws, we will invade you. Thanks to our Islamic laws we will conquer you" -Iman at a conference in Turkey.

"If ever there is a Muslim majority in Ireland, Sharia law should be declared"-Ali Selem,secetary general of the Irish council of Imans.

"Everybody had better embrace Islam or people will start flying planes into buildings again" --Kahlid Kelly Irish Jihadist from the Swat valley.

We should also consider the fate of those with the courage to speak out.
Theo Van Gogh, murdered because he made a film about the treatment of Muslim women.
Salman Rushdie on whom a death sentence was passed for being critical of Islam in his writings.

It is the teaching of Islam that the existence of a world not ruled by Muslims is a constant threat to peace and peace can only be achieved by imposing an Islamic peace,and that Jihad is the duty of every islamic community.l


http://www.jihadwatch.org

http://www.thereligionofpea ce.com/


for November 2009 , the islam death count is 529.

November 2009
Jihad Attacks: 139
Countries: 14
Religions: 5
Dead Bodies: 529
Critically Injured:1075

lets face it - if the Amish or Scientologists or Mormons were doing this we'd have SWAT squads coming down on them like a ton of bricks.

[starchaser]

Again you misintepret my posts. I have no problem with muslims only with radiclam islam and its violent manifestations. Indeed my work brings me into contact with many muslims mainly of Pakistani and Turkish origin and these moderate Muslims share my views with regard to radical islam.


indeed - the biggest casualties from radical Islam are Muslims themselves.

best example is the Algerian civil war in the 1990s..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_civil_war

you think 9/11 was horrific with about 3,000 dead..

how about 150,000 to 200,000 killed. yup - thats what algeria went through.

my advice to Muslims who want to be "moderate" is very simple - give up the religion in private if you can. its not worth it. it's a cult. plain and simple. and a very violent cult too.

sidenote: i also would advise that to anyone wanting to be "Catholic" in light of the recent reports. my benchmark is - if a religion is seriously damaging to other human beings, its time to leave it and consider other options.

[Professor Piehead]

http://www.jihadwatch.org

http://www.thereligionofpea ce.com/


for November 2009 , the islam death count is 529.

November 2009
Jihad Attacks: 139
Countries: 14
Religions: 5
Dead Bodies: 529
Critically Injured:1075

lets face it - if the Amish or Scientologists or Mormons were doing this we'd have SWAT squads coming down on them like a ton of bricks.


Remembr David Koresh?

A kiddie-fiddling religous leader. What happened to similar leaders in the Catholic church. They were moved on.

The bigger the religion, the more feeble minded supporters you have, the more you can get away with.

[starchaser]

Remembr David Koresh?

A kiddie-fiddling religous leader. What happened to similar leaders in the Catholic church. They were moved on.

The bigger the religion, the more feeble minded supporters you have, the more you can get away with.

good point. i take my point back.

waco texas ..

[an liathroid beag]

Isn't democracy terrible.

Yes, a wonderous, terrible and fragile beauty!

[gmansubfm]

I am sick of the PC crew. We are not Muslim nor do we want to be. If we were to go live in their fucking "countries" we would have to conform to their rules and religion. Why does it not work in reverse. We are constantly conforming to their ways.... Why should we? Bit of advice to the Muslim community........ If you don't like our ways and traditions Fuck off home!

totally agree with this! if you dont like our ways, our traditions, our food, our religions, our beliefs etc etc.....
then go back to where you came from and stop trying to brainwash a civilised society to the fucked up ways of islam!!! jihad = holy war!!!!! idiots.
there was never a good war or a bad peace!!!!

[ubernerd]

totally agree with this! if you dont like our ways, our traditions, our food, our religions, our beliefs etc etc.....
then go back to where you came from and stop trying to brainwash a civilised society to the fucked up ways of islam!!! jihad = holy war!!!!! idiots.
there was never a good war or a bad peace!!!!

In fairness, I don't think a dislike of bacon and cabbage should be grounds for repatriation.

Also, you forgot: our telly, our weather, our clothes, our shops, our gingers, our accent, our shit roads, our unreliable public transport and so many other things they better like or else.

By the way, jihad does not equal holy war, and Neville Chamberlain once shared your opinions on war and peace.

[gmansubfm]

In fairness, I don't think a dislike of bacon and cabbage should be grounds for repatriation.

Also, you forgot: our telly, our weather, our clothes, our shops, our gingers, our accent, our shit roads, our unreliable public transport and so many other things they better like or else.

By the way, jihad does not equal holy war, and Neville Chamberlain once shared your opinions on war and peace.

Jihad is the Arabic for what can be variously translated as "struggle" or "effort," or "to strive," "to exert," "to fight," depending on the context. In the West, the word is generally understood to mean "holy war," and the terms are given, inaccurately, exclusively military connotations.....
does that clear that up for you ubernerd, ;)

[ubernerd]

Jihad is the Arabic for what can be variously translated as "struggle" or "effort," or "to strive," "to exert," "to fight," depending on the context. In the West, the word is generally understood to mean "holy war," and the terms are given, inaccurately, exclusively military connotations.....
does that clear that up for you ubernerd, ;)

Great, now can you clear up why, if you understand that giving the term exclusively military connotations is inaccurate, you did just that?

[an liathroid beag]

Woman sold in public auction in Pakistan -- for $3,200
Here is the apotheosis of the Islamic tendency to treat women as commodities -- a tendency with deep roots in the Qur'an and Sunnah.

"Girl sold in open auction," by Sikander Khoso for The Nation, December 13 (thanks to Silvester):

JACOBABAD - A 20-year-old girl was auctioned at village Badani Bhutto of Taluka Kashmore in consideration of Rs2,70,000 on Saturday.
Azizan, daughter of late Allah Bux Bhutto, was divorced on the allegation of Karo-kari some time back. She is stated to be mother of two children and was residing with her brother who held the open auction for her 'sale' at village Badani Bhutto.

A large number of villagers showed interest in the auction that started with Rs50,000 and ended at Rs270,000. Bilawal Bhutto, 50, of the same village purchased her for the said amount. Initially he paid Rs210,000 for the girl.

Maulana Azizullah Bhutto performed their nikah [marriage] later.

It is irony of the situation that no one condemned the inhuman act. The groom will take the bride to his house after paying the rest of the amount. The auction money was distributed equally among all the brothers of the girl.

Posted by Robert on December 21, 2009 1:25 PM | 6 Comments
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Womens rights?

[hemlock666]

The koran bashers, bible thumpers and torah tossers should all be sent off to the australian outback or siberian tundra to knock the shite out of each other to their hearts content. The whole lot of em are as dangerous as each other. They are all convinced they're right and by default everyone else is wrong and will be punished by god for not believing. They might as well throw their shit at each other for the good it does anyone who just simply wants a bit of peace and quiet.

[an liathroid beag]

http://www.thereligionofpea ce.com/index_files/stoning-somalia-sm.jpg

The Reality of Sharia Law!

A 48 year old Somali man pleading in vain for his life as he is buried prior to being stoned to death for adultry as sentenced by a muslim Court under Sharia law.

The picture of his stoning is too disturbing and obscene to be posted here!

[Henry Hill]

I don't have any time for muslims, moderate or radical, or any religon. But islam is the most poisonous. God is imaginary.

[Corcaigh32]

God is? or Gods are? Are you equating belief with imagination?

[Henry Hill]

Both. Its all man made bullshit. You'd have to be taught it as a child to believe it. When I made my communion I believed in santa, the easter bunny, god and the tooth fairy.

[Corcaigh32]

That's if you take God to be a man with a grey beard in the sky looking down on us all who dictated a book with 10 rules in it, if you are Christian........

[Henry Hill]

It just depends what fairytales were read to you as a child. If any religious person read a couple of the right books and documentaries they'd be an atheist in a few days

[an liathroid beag]

It just depends what fairytales were read to you as a child. If any religious person read a couple of the right books and documentaries they'd be an atheist in a few days

Einstein, probably the greatest brain that ever lived, said that he was humbled, by the realisation of how little he actually knew and understood. He, for all I know, might have been an agnostic but even he, knowing the limitations of the human condition against the infinity of the universe would not have been arrogant enought to be an aetheist.

[Professor Piehead]

Einstein, probably the greatest brain that ever lived, said that he was humbled, by the realisation of how little he actually knew and understood. He, for all I know, might have been an agnostic but even he, knowing the limitations of the human condition against the infinity of the universe would not have been arrogant enought to be an aetheist.

'The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this'

'I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms'

'A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death'

'I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it'

'It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death'

'It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it'

A wise man was old Albert.

[an liathroid beag]

EINSTEIN:

Ah, this is what I mean about religion and science going hand-in-hand! Each has a place, but each must be relegated to its sphere. Let's assume that we are dealing with a theoretical physicist or scientist who is very well-acquaintcd with the different laws of the universe, such as how the planets orbit the sun and how the satellites in turn orbit around their respectivc planets. Now, this man who has studied and understands these different laws-how could he possibly believe in one God who would be capable of disturbing the paths of these great orbiting masses?

No, the natural laws of science have not only been worked out theoretically but have been proven also in practice. I cannot then believe in this concept of an anthropomorphic God who has the powers of interfering with these natural laws. As I said before, the most beautiful and most profound religious emotion that we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. And this mysticality is the power of all true science. If there is any such concept as a God, it is a subtle spirit, not an image of a man that so many have fixed in their minds. In essence, my religion consists of a humble admiration for this illimitable superior spirit that reveals itself in the slight details that we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds .

Wise old Uncle Albert

[Henry Hill]

Generally scientists are atheists

http://www.stephenjaygould. org/ctrl/news/file002.html

[Cannabis]

packie bonners

[an liathroid beag]

Is Jihad finally coming to Ireland? An Irish convert to Islam being interviewed today on the arrest of the seven extremist suspects claimed that the sense of alienation being experienced by Irish Muslims could lead to another 7/7 type of athrocity in this country.

[debgor2]

I wonder what liam and the gang have to say.

[nico]

I am sick of the PC crew. We are not Muslim nor do we want to be. If we were to go live in their fucking "countries" we would have to conform to their rules and religion. Why does it not work in reverse. We are constantly conforming to their ways.... Why should we? Bit of advice to the Muslim community........ If you don't like our ways and traditions Fuck off home!

I'm so sick of conforming to their ways. If another one of their ways comes along and I'm forced to conform to it I swear I'll go mad.

[an liathroid beag]

I am sick of the PC crew. We are not Muslim nor do we want to be. If we were to go live in their fucking "countries" we would have to conform to their rules and religion. Why does it not work in reverse. We are constantly conforming to their ways.... Why should we? Bit of advice to the Muslim community........ If you don't like our ways and traditions Fuck off home!

Now i wonder are diar and liam related??:confused:W ould make for an interesting conversation over the porridge in the morning:D

[Hang_Sandwich]

Woman sold in public auction in Pakistan -- for $3,200
Here is the apotheosis of the Islamic tendency to treat women as commodities -- a tendency with deep roots in the Qur'an and Sunnah.

"Girl sold in open auction," by Sikander Khoso for The Nation, December 13 (thanks to Silvester):

JACOBABAD - A 20-year-old girl was auctioned at village Badani Bhutto of Taluka Kashmore in consideration of Rs2,70,000 on Saturday.
Azizan, daughter of late Allah Bux Bhutto, was divorced on the allegation of Karo-kari some time back. She is stated to be mother of two children and was residing with her brother who held the open auction for her 'sale' at village Badani Bhutto.

A large number of villagers showed interest in the auction that started with Rs50,000 and ended at Rs270,000. Bilawal Bhutto, 50, of the same village purchased her for the said amount. Initially he paid Rs210,000 for the girl.

Maulana Azizullah Bhutto performed their nikah [marriage] later.

It is irony of the situation that no one condemned the inhuman act. The groom will take the bride to his house after paying the rest of the amount. The auction money was distributed equally among all the brothers of the girl.

Posted by Robert on December 21, 2009 1:25 PM | 6 Comments
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Womens rights?

you can get one in holland for like 50 euro - or like 5 euro if you barter with the crack hoes...

on a more serious note though you can buy a woman in many parts of the world. I'm sure you could buy one here illegally - and lets not forget mail order brides... how many civilised irish men have purchased thai brides??

[an liathroid beag]

Two charged today in court in relation to plot to kill Lars Vilks the Swedish cartoonist. Is it possible that this country could become a base for Muslim extremism and Jihad?. Ther is a risk that if Ireland does not strive to promote integration of muslims we may end up with little sharia states like Britian with all the attendant risks. The secret to full integration is the education system. There are two muslim primary schools in Ireland. However there are no Muslim secondary schools and muslims can be integrated successfully throught the existing secondary and third level systems.
Young Muslims are radicalised when the extremists take control of the second level schools. This must never be allowed to happen here.

[trojan horse]

The most important issue that relates to this is that we, as a nation of Irish people stay strong and true to our unique identity. For hundreds of years our forefathers have fought and died for the right to be independent of our own affairs.

We have a very strong and old culture that a pan European/western world is currently eroding and grinding down until there is only one culture.

The Cambridge dictionary states that the word culture means “ the way of life, especially the general customs and beliefs, of a particular group of people at a particular time”.

East and West cultures are poles apart in every way. They are divided by thousands of years in each forming their own unique way of life.
When the Romans conquered lands in the East, they didn’t try and fit into the existing rules and way of life. No, they simply brought their own with them and superimposed it on the people there.
Equally when the Moors invaded Spain the Islamic law was the only law.
Christians and Jews were allowed to practice their religion freely but had to abide by Islamic law.

I believe that Muslims must be allowed to practice their religion freely but education and schooling are very strongly linked to culture and values for the students present and therefore the majority religion needs to be kept.

Otherwise, ban Catholic, Protestant, Muslim and every other religious school.

Religion is part of our culture as it helps to define how we should live our lives and strengthen our beliefs in order to keep our culture strong.

I for one would like to bring back the word Christmas and stop all this PC nonsense and to embrace what culture we have.

[checkyabadself]

I don't have any time for muslims, moderate or radical, or any religon. But islam is the most poisonous. God is imaginary.

Both. Its all man made bullshit. You'd have to be taught it as a child to believe it. When I made my communion I believed in santa, the easter bunny, god and the tooth fairy.

It just depends what fairytales were read to you as a child. If any religious person read a couple of the right books and documentaries they'd be an atheist in a few days

'The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this'

'I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms'

'A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death'

A wise man was old Albert.

Best posts of the thread so far. The sooner the rest of the uneducated people on the planet see that the above posts are undeniable, the sooner we can all move forward without the curse of religion clouding clear, rational thinking.

@Henry Hill, I like the way you put it, that you believed in god, the tooth fairy, easter bunny and santa when you were seven.

The argument for gods existance is the same as the argument for the Easter bunnies existance.

Napolean said "religion is great for keeping common people quiet". I couldn`t agree more.

I personally believe that muslims (those who feel extreme hate for people who live on the other side of the world who they`ll never meet) are so frustrated, as they`re brainwashed from an early age that "this is how to live your life" and when they see people who aren`t as obedient as they are, they feel like a child who rants to their mother "but Johnnys mam lets himstay out late".
At the moment I feel muslims are threatened that their way of life might become irrelevant and that their terrified that all those years of abstaining and living in fear may count for nothing and be time wasted.

Sure don`t all religions rely on instilling fear and non-questioning of the basic tenets of their particular holy book. Every religion has a single figurehead and an established heirarchy. In Catholicism its the Pope and the Vatican, the Protestants have the Queen, etc, etc. My point is that they are all organisations, and theres nothing more threatening to an organisation than an individual questioning the mreits of it and possibly going on to dissolve it.

People from many centuries ago had Thor/Zeus, etc and is considered as laughable as the easter bunny. Why cant people apply the same logic and question "Is my religion just a newer version of a sun god/Thor/Zeus...?"

[checkyabadself]

Otherwise, ban Catholic, Protestant, Muslim and every other religious school.

Religion is part of our culture as it helps to define how we should live our lives and strengthen our beliefs in order to keep our culture strong.

I for one would like to bring back the word Christmas and stop all this PC nonsense and to embrace what culture we have.

Go on so, ban all religious teaching in school. It never did anyone any good. Civics and ethics are taught well nowadays so children in my view would be educated with facts and morals, rather than wrapping them in cotton wool by telling them that a book composed about a man in the middle east 2000 years ago walking on water and performing other magic tricks to convince people to follow his way of life, is the right way to live in 2010 in western europe.

you say religion helps define how we SHOULD live our lives as it`s part of our culture......The same culture you argue was brought here and imposed upon us. So you`re saying it`s not our culture but one forced on us by the Romans.

There is a difference between "religion is part of our culture" and "religion is part our tradition"

[CH1]

There are two muslim primary schools in Ireland. However there are no Muslim secondary schools and muslims can be integrated successfully throught the existing secondary and third level systems.


Surely giving muslims their own schools within their own little communities is not the way to intergrate people into the Irish way. By doing this you are allowing the same thing as what happened in the UK where within their own communities the few are allowed to preach hate.
The UK has bent over backwards with the allowance of mosques etc and this is what has happened.
If they want to live in any country that is not muslim they have to get on with it, with no special treatment, the same as if you or I, moved there.

[pudgee]

I for one would like to bring back the word Christmas

Where's it gone?

[mikeyj22]

Where's it gone?

Its happy holidays now in the states at least in case it insults other religions, some pile of shit, people should be able to beleive whatever they want but when that involves oppressing other peoples freedoms its enough to drive me to my own jihad, against the fucking disease that is religon

[pudgee]

Its happy holidays now in the states at least in case it insults other religions, some pile of shit, people should be able to beleive whatever they want but when that involves oppressing other peoples freedoms its enough to drive me to my own jihad, against the fucking disease that is religon

So in your fight against religion, the first step is to re-emphasise the Christian part of what is actually a general period of midwinter festivals.

Good man.

[pudgee]

http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/four-lions-trailer/2trpus57

[debgor2]

We could say Happy Summer Break or Happy Winter Time.

[mikeyj22]

So in your fight against religion, the first step is to re-emphasise the Christian part of what is actually a general period of midwinter festivals.

Good man.

Your some fuckin wanker, I dont care about Christian festivals or Muslim festivals or any religious festivals, that was the point. Maybe you should fuck off to the middle east and try using the internet there to talk up your shit :twisted:

[pudgee]

Your some fuckin wanker, I dont care about Christian festivals or Muslim festivals or any religious festivals, that was the point. Maybe you should fuck off to the middle east and try using the internet there to talk up your shit :twisted:

good man.

[Professor Piehead]

Your some fuckin wanker, I dont care about Christian festivals or Muslim festivals or any religious festivals, that was the point. Maybe you should fuck off to the middle east and try using the internet there to talk up your shit :twisted:

Repped.

[Langer Dan]

I had a Jihad once, didn't agree with me.

Far too gassy.

[Professor Piehead]

I had a Jihad once, didn't agree with me.

Far too gassy.

IMT5DczBILc

[debgor2]

I had a Jihad once, didn't agree with me.

Far too gassy.
Never have one on an empty stomach.

[steve sanders]

i don't really find holy war funny but i guess jihad to be there.

[mikeyj22]

i don't really find holy war funny but i guess jihad to be there.

Yeah, whys there no televisions in Afganastan?

Because of the telly ban

What? You started it!

[bfinnbar]

Your some fuckin wanker, I dont care about Christian festivals or Muslim festivals or any religious festivals, that was the point. Maybe you should fuck off to the middle east and try using the internet there to talk up your shit :twisted:

I sense hostility.

[Murdock]

Your some fuckin wanker, I dont care about Christian festivals or Muslim festivals or any religious festivals, that was the point. Maybe you should fuck off to the middle east and try using the internet there to talk up your shit :twisted:

Rattled.

[mikeyj22]

Rattled.

Hands up, I was rattled, well I was in bad form after paddys day sickness and not in the form for that shite and being preached to