What the hell is Mary Harney still doing in government?

[jd26]

This woman has almost single-handedly brought the country to its knees.

Her fiscal policies amounted to reckless tax cutting to the point where we could no longer sustain even basic spending once a downturn came around.

Her ideological zealotry about privatisation and small government has left us with a deficit in public infrastructure, a public transport system that never got the reform it needed in case it would threaten private bus operators and a crocked two-tier health service where you either pay a fortune or die early, just so some of her husband's buddies could make a small bit of extra profit.

And then you just have to consider the practicalities.

Cowen doesn't need her vote; she no longer commands a party vote behind her.

At the moment he has two threats - rebellious backbenchers and the possibility of the Green Party walking away.

That extra seat could be used to buy either off. How would the Greens like a third seat if they promise not to walk in the near future? Push a FF junior minister into cabinet and a backbencher into a junior ministry - a great way of soothing internal discontent.

Surely, they can't think that keeping her in cabinet is still working as a mudguard. People aren't buying the "It's all Mary Harney's fault, but what can you do, her party has the balance of power" line any more.

So, come on, Mr Cowen, if you want to rebuild any credibility your party has, you have to ditch her now.

[Eoin]

Ah come on, you can't blame her entirely for the countries problems. I'm no PD fan, and I'm certainly not a fan of Harneys politics. But Bertie, Cowen, Lenihan, Martin are all just as responsible for the shit we're in.

[jd26]

Ah come on, you can't blame her entirely for the countries problems. I'm no PD fan, and I'm certainly not a fan of Harneys politics. But Bertie, Cowen, Lenihan, Martin are all just as responsible for the shit we're in.

They are, but to the extent that they'd do anything to be able to use and abuse power.

And when that meant making a deal to implement Harney's policies, even when those policies weren't in the countries best interests, they did it.

I won't actually blame the PDs outright for this. The original O'Malley PD party was a different beast that did the country some good. You'd sometimes wonder how differently things might have turned out had Pat Cox beaten Mary Harney in the leadership election.

[Eoin]

They are, but to the extent that they'd do anything to be able to use and abuse power.

And when that meant making a deal to implement Harney's policies, even when those policies weren't in the countries best interests, they did it.


Isn't that FFs fault though?? The PDs are what they are(or were at least).

[jd26]

I wouldn't absolve FF of blame.

But given the damage she has done to date and the fact she is no longer needed, surely the time to jettison her has long passed.

[frankeechops]

I thought she would have rejoined FF by this stage at least. The fact that an independent holds one of the most important Ministries is a disgrace. As JD said it could very easily be used to placate either a disgruntled FFer or Green TD.

The fact that she is 1.not very good at her job and 2.not very good a deflecting shite away from the government, begs the question, What power does she hold over Cowen, Or is she merely Independent so as not to harm her personal vote and a closet member of FF.

On a related point Cuffe received funding for the PD's this year, Has Harney Received her Independent's Allowance?

[quincytwo]

I wouldn't absolve FF of blame.

But given the damage she has done to date and the fact she is no longer needed, surely the time to jettison her has long passed.

Well one of the most powerful groups in the Government are the Greens
so it is they who should be asked this question !

[Eoin]

I thought she would have rejoined FF by this stage at least. The fact that an independent holds one of the most important Ministries is a disgrace. As JD said it could very easily be used to placate either a disgruntled FFer or Green TD.

The fact that she is 1.not very good at her job and 2.not very good a deflecting shite away from the government, begs the question, What power does she hold over Cowen, Or is she merely Independent so as not to harm her personal vote and a closet member of FF.

On a related point Cuffe received funding for the PD's this year, Has Harney Received her Independent's Allowance?

It suits FF to have her as health minister, that job is a poisoned chalice!

[i_didnt_do_nawtin]

It suits FF to have her as health minister, that job is a poisoned chalice!

Exactly, people will never ever be happy with the Health Service.

[jd26]

I don't think she is the mudguard that she used to be.

Fianna Fail can't just shrug their shoulders over her behaviour as people now know that she's only there because they want her there. If that is really why she's kept in place, they're doing themselves more harm than good.

[quincytwo]

I don't think she is the mudguard that she used to be.

Fianna Fail can't just shrug their shoulders over her behaviour as people now know that she's only there because they want her there. If that is really why she's kept in place, they're doing themselves more harm than good.

Passing the buck jd ?

[doppellanger]

You'd sometimes wonder how differently things might have turned out had Pat Cox beaten Mary Harney in the leadership election.

If Charlie hadn't as good as appointed Bertie his successor with his "most cunning, most devious" comment, Mary Harney could have gone on to be Taoiseach.

[doppellanger]

I don't think she is the mudguard that she used to be.

Fianna Fail can't just shrug their shoulders over her behaviour as people now know that she's only there because they want her there. If that is really why she's kept in place, they're doing themselves more harm than good.

They're probably afraid of having her on the opposition benches. If she joined FG, she would basically double the number of, ahem, heavyweight politicians in that party.

[Beaty]

FFS didnt she marry a FAS head?

S

[blackie]

Fianna Fail used the PD'S , blame them , they're not our policies , we're just corrupt and will do anything to stay in power - for the good of the country of course .

THE LARGE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO WILL ONLY VOTE ff SHOULD BE SHOT.

[quincytwo]

This woman has almost single-handedly brought the country to its knees.

Her fiscal policies amounted to reckless tax cutting to the point where we could no longer sustain even basic spending once a downturn came around.

Her ideological zealotry about privatisation and small government has left us with a deficit in public infrastructure, a public transport system that never got the reform it needed in case it would threaten private bus operators and a crocked two-tier health service where you either pay a fortune or die early, just so some of her husband's buddies could make a small bit of extra profit.

And then you just have to consider the practicalities.

Cowen doesn't need her vote; she no longer commands a party vote behind her.

At the moment he has two threats - rebellious backbenchers and the possibility of the Green Party walking away.

That extra seat could be used to buy either off. How would the Greens like a third seat if they promise not to walk in the near future? Push a FF junior minister into cabinet and a backbencher into a junior ministry - a great way of soothing internal discontent.

Surely, they can't think that keeping her in cabinet is still working as a mudguard. People aren't buying the "It's all Mary Harney's fault, but what can you do, her party has the balance of power" line any more.

So, come on, Mr Cowen, if you want to rebuild any credibility your party has, you have to ditch her now.

Ridiculous overstatement and from the guy who is gets so upset to see other posters being ' unfair' to his pet politicians.
Harney whaterever criticism she deserves for the health service has never held the Finance portfolio.
Your pals in the Greens have much more influence and leverage with the Government than Harney, so attack the right people !
As you said about Creighton ' She is entitled to represent her constituents'.

[jd26]

In what way do any of those issues relate to the people of Dublin Mid-West any more than the rest of the country?

And as a coalition partner capable of bringing down the government, she was well capable of having her financial agenda put in place.

It's true that the Greens have more leverage. Or at least have had since the death of Seamus Brennan. And I can't comprehend why they let her stay on. She's no longer necessary and her policies are damaging the country and their party.

BTW However much you might like to characterise me as a Green supporter, I've made no secret of the fact that I voted Labour in the last general election.

[Langer Dan]

What the hell is Mary Harney still doing in government?.

Free cakes and lots of them.

[quincytwo]

In what way do any of those issues relate to the people of Dublin Mid-West any more than the rest of the country?

And as a coalition partner capable of bringing down the government, she was well capable of having her financial agenda put in place.

It's true that the Greens have more leverage. Or at least have had since the death of Seamus Brennan. And I can't comprehend why they let her stay on. She's no longer necessary and her policies are damaging the country and their party.

BTW However much you might like to characterise me as a Green supporter, I've made no secret of the fact that I voted Labour in the last general election.

I would have thought a Labour voter might have some, just a tiny bit of sympathy for the 50,000 to 100,000 unemployed building workers, but noe defending the honour of a Fg TD who is on record as objecting to project after project.
There are no 37 storey towers planned for Montrose, no rows of Georgian buildings whose appearance would be detracted from; it just seems like any of the many greenfield sites that have been developed anywhere in Ireland.
Perfect location for S & A housing where they wont be out of character. unsustainable or an impediment to traffic - remember all the reasons these politicians were giving for objecting to the small little S & A project in Ringsend ?
And what was the reaction ? Quote: " Outrageous ".
Where is the consistency ?Perhaps you are naturally sympathetic to your coalition partners, FG.
But a Labour voter ? Is it the ' Smoked Salmon ' wing of Labour you like to support ? It sure isnt the building site canteen wing anyway !

[jd26]

Nice response to my post.

I see you didn't address as single issue.

On the whole construction worker thing, you've never explained your aversion to planning. You've never explained why it's a good idea to build load more places to live in a city where 10% of the housing stock is vacant. You still haven't explained why you want to make a desperate attempt to reinflate a bubble that got us into such a mess.

I actually wonder if the whole thing is a bit like the Bishopstown Green scenario, with Dunne purely seeking compensation if the local area plan gets amended.

[quincytwo]

Nice response to my post.

I see you didn't address as single issue.

On the whole construction worker thing, you've never explained your aversion to planning. You've never explained why it's a good idea to build load more places to live in a city where 10% of the housing stock is vacant. You still haven't explained why you want to make a desperate attempt to reinflate a bubble that got us into such a mess.

I actually wonder if the whole thing is a bit like the Bishopstown Green scenario, with Dunne purely seeking compensation if the local area plan gets amended.

Well Jd, if the whole thing is for compsenation, then that will only be possible because politicians have made it that way, do you agree.
this is the nub of the thing, politicians have all the power, they decide what can and cannot be done.
You are conveniently forgetting that one of the developments in question is purely commercial, one is a Social and Affordable development that the developer is obliged to build - though why he must do so if there are so many empty houses in Dublin is a mystery to me, and one the Montrose one, appears to be just a move to rezone to allow mixed uses in what can not be called a city location.
Good planning would take cognisance of the fact that demand for, say housing, in an area like Montrose, is unlikely to be affected by a surplus of housing units in say Smithsfield or Killbarrack.
I have no interset in re-inflating any bubble. If we take your thinking to one of its possible conclusions, them lets introduce price controls on houses and/or apartments. Would that make you happy ? I am not making a ' desperate attempt' to do anything.
This is my first thread in relation to FG attitudes, or those of any individual FG member to the construction sector.

[jd26]

But apartments were built in Smithfield because of their proximity to the city centre and Heuston Station. Why encourage those apartments to lie empty because some property developer wants to play double or quits in Ballsbridge.

There's a time and a place for development and Ballsbridge falls short in both regards.

[quincytwo]

But apartments were built in Smithfield because of their proximity to the city centre and Heuston Station. Why encourage those apartments to lie empty because some property developer wants to play double or quits in Ballsbridge.

There's a time and a place for development and Ballsbridge falls short in both regards.

Cant you even read ?
My previous remarks regarding Smithfield?Killbarra ck were in relation to Montrose:
Good planning would take cognisance of the fact that demand for, say housing, in an area like Montrose, is unlikely to be affected by a surplus of housing units in say Smithsfield or Killbarrack
.I suspect you are motivated in your attitudes to builders and developers by a curious mix of ideology and envy.
Read my thread on NAMA.
How did O Flynn manage to build his 17 storey tower by the City hall,without the world falling down around us in Cork ?
The world didnt fall down and the fact that that it is mainly empty hasnt prevented other builders carrying on , albiet more slowly, with finishing some of their sites.
You dont think a Cork Councillor can contact Capwell Road to enquire about a bus service, (' has to be a TD') and here you are pontificating about planning in Dublin.