Ireland for Europe

[daithi81]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_for_Europe

Vote YES to Lisbon II.

Vote YES for freedom.

Fuck Ganley in the ear.

[hungry]

Ya sure, we had our freedom of speech in the first vote for Lisbon

[daithi81]

Ya sure, we had our freedom of speech in the first vote for Lisbon

Yup. As we had with the numerous amendments we have voted for since the founding of our state, and the numerous amendments we will make in the future. Thankfully, we have the ability to steer the country in different directions rather than clinging to the past.

[hungry]

Please note that if no other country has to vote on the new lisbon treaty? it means that the treaty has not been changed despite what our leaders might say. The ammendments will only be valid for Ireland if they are protocols to the treaty and there seems to be a doubt about that. All Biffo got was guarantees which are not legally binding.

[daithi81]

Please note that if no other country has to vote on the new lisbon treaty? it means that the treaty has not been changed despite what our leaders might say. The ammendments will only be valid for Ireland if they are protocols to the treaty and there seems to be a doubt about that. All Biffo got was guarantees which are not legally binding.

Seems to be. That isn't a strong statement. It's highly ambiguous. Just thought I would iron that crease out.

I voted YES to the first treaty. I find it frankly embarrassing that I live in a country so full of retards that they voted NO to something because they were too lazy to read it.


Vote YES to Lisbon II.

Vote YES for freedom.

Fuck Ganley in the ear.

[DogTheLangerHunter]

Seems to be. That isn't a strong statement. It's highly ambiguous. Just thought I would iron that crease out.

I voted YES to the first treaty. I find it frankly embarrassing that I live in a country so full of retards that they voted NO to something because they were too lazy to read it.


Vote YES to Lisbon II.

Vote YES for freedom.

Fuck Ganley in the ear.

Reppage.

[daithi81]

What about the people who voted yes without reading it?:D Did you read the treaty in it's entirety?

Are you suggesting every aspect of this treaty represents a good deal for the country with no possible negative implications?

No. Only a moron could ever assume that anyone could come to that conclusion.

Oh. That means you, I guess.

[daithi81]

I actually expected a semi-decent reply. Well done for failing at the first hurdle.:D

You haven't been around here long enough, pseudy.

[daithi81]

Vote YES to Lisbon II.

Vote YES for freedom.

Fuck Ganley in the ear.

[Taste]

No, thank you,

Are you sure?

No, fine thanks.

[jd26]

http://www.tribune.ie/news/editorial-opinion/article/2009/jun/21/justine-mccarthy-last-week-was-a-week-to-be-ashame/

[daithi81]

http://www.tribune.ie/news/editorial-opinion/article/2009/jun/21/justine-mccarthy-last-week-was-a-week-to-be-ashame/

Repped.

[Closer80]

Seems to be. That isn't a strong statement. It's highly ambiguous. Just thought I would iron that crease out.


"Seems to be" is more correct than "is". For someone who delves into discussions about the concept of "scientific proof", you should really know that. ;)

Anyway Voting No != Libertas. They are gone.

[daithi81]

"Seems to be" is more correct than "is". For someone who delves into discussions about the concept of "scientific proof", you should really know that. ;)

Anyway Voting No != Libertas. They are gone.

Warning! Total nonsense.

[Proinsias]

Please note that if no other country has to vote on the new lisbon treaty? it means that the treaty has not been changed despite what our leaders might say. The ammendments will only be valid for Ireland if they are protocols to the treaty and there seems to be a doubt about that. All Biffo got was guarantees which are not legally binding.

http://euroalert.net/en/news.aspx?idn=8873

"The European Council, at its meeting of 11-12 December 2008, agreed that, provided the Treaty of Lisbon enters into force, a decision would be taken, in accordance with the necessary legal procedures, to the effect that the Commission shall continue to include one national of each Member State. "

The European Council also agreed that other concerns of the Irish people, as presented by the Taoiseach, relating to taxation policy, the right to life, education and the family, and Ireland's traditional policy of military neutrality, would be addressed to the mutual satisfaction of Ireland and the other Member States, by way of the necessary legal guarantees. It was also agreed that the high importance attached to a number of social issues, including workers' rights, would be confirmed.


If the council has agreed to it, it's as good as done, in practice the council is far more powerful than the commission, even if formally, it isn't.

[Closer80]

Warning! Total nonsense.

On the first count, "seems" to be is always more correct. Human perspective distorts results. We are the instrument that observes and thus takes its own interpretation. thus nothing truly is, rather it seems to be. Look up E prime some time ;)

On the second count, while i don't doubt that both sides of the debate have positives and negatives. A no vote != Libertas (they are gone). Neither does it = Sinn Fein, or any other radical party that happens to support it. Itshould be the peoples choice, not the various parties. ;)

[Lamps]

http://www.tribune.ie/news/editorial-opinion/article/2009/jun/21/justine-mccarthy-last-week-was-a-week-to-be-ashame/

anti-British nonsense

I thought we'd matured as a nation

[Lamps]

Seems the Yes side are dismissing the No'ers again as idiots and cranks.

Bad move.

Cowen beware

[hemlock666]

So now that Ganley is gone who's the bad guy?

[jd26]

anti-British nonsense

I thought we'd matured as a nation

Could you at least read the piece before posting cliches. There is no reference to Britain in the piece. The closest it gets is one sentence about Gordon Brown

Even poor, beleaguered Gordon Brown caved in, knowing it was another of the thousand cuts that will kill him in the end.

Nope, I can't see it as anti-British either.

Also, anyone here who has met me would testify that I'm not the sort to push any anti-British propaganda considering that I'm half British, talk with a relatively English accent having lived there til I was 10 and can bore people to death talking about cricket.

So do us a favour and read the pieces before your wumming turns into self-pwnage.

[daithi81]

So now that Ganley is gone who's the bad guy?

No one, really. Thankfully we have no Pentagon-funded political lobbyists attempting to subvert our democratic process, this time.

[Closer80]

No one, really. Thankfully we have no Pentagon-funded political lobbyists attempting to subvert our democratic process, this time.

That's funny, i don't remember Ganley forcing a second referendum, even though the democratic process had already taken place ;)

[Lamps]

Could you at least read the piece before posting cliches. There is no reference to Britain in the piece. The closest it gets is one sentence about Gordon Brown



Nope, I can't see it as anti-British either.

Also, anyone here who has met me would testify that I'm not the sort to push any anti-British propaganda considering that I'm half British, talk with a relatively English accent having lived there til I was 10 and can bore people to death talking about cricket.

So do us a favour and read the pieces before your wumming turns into self-pwnage.

Aren't you the lad who said that a great reason for voting Yes for Lisbon is cos Sinn Fein were for it?

Check and mate

Check and mate

[Funky Munky]

No one, really. Thankfully we have no Pentagon-funded political lobbyists attempting to subvert our democratic process, this time.



If Ireland votes Yes in Lisbon II, should be not have another referendum on it?

[Lamps]

If Ireland votes Yes in Lisbon II, should be not have another referendum on it?

Pull the other one.

We'll keep voting till we get it right and that'll be the end of it.

[jd26]

That's funny, i don't remember Ganley forcing a second referendum, even though the democratic process had already taken place ;)

Libertas Chairman Declan Ganley has booked three one-way seats on an 6pm flight to Brussels on June 13th in the names of Enda Kenny, Eamon Gilmore, and Brian Cowen.

Mr. Ganley said that he had bought the tickets to make the point that the Irish people should tell the three party leaders to go back for a better deal "and not come back until they have achieved it".

Hmmm

[Closer80]

Hmmm

Libertas Chairman Declan Ganley has booked three one-way seats on an 6pm flight to Brussels on June 13th in the names of Enda Kenny, Eamon Gilmore, and Brian Cowen.

Mr. Ganley said that he had bought the tickets to make the point that the Irish people should tell the three party leaders to go back for a better deal "and not come back until they have achieved it".

So Ganley was in agreement with the yes side??
:confused:

Either way the man was a dick. :mad: Libertas were full of crap and wanted a pan european party. Anyone who thinks they were the alternative for the euro-skeptic doesn't know much about the party.

I think it's hilarious that we are being asked to vote again. Alot of people i know are voting no simply because of this, and that includes former yes voters.
People don't like being boxed into a corner.
It's not as cut and dry as it's made out to be, by either side :/

[jd26]

Aren't you the lad who said that a great reason for voting Yes for Lisbon is cos Sinn Fein were for it?

Check and mate

Check and mate

I don't recall saying that.

And the only thing I could find I'd posted along those lines was this (http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19304 14&postcount=43) that says the complete opposite.

Check and mate, indeed.

[Lamps]

I don't recall saying that.

And the only thing I could find I'd posted along those lines was this (http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19304 14&postcount=43) that says the complete opposite.

Check and mate, indeed.

I may be mixing you up with EddieB, either way I'm running with it.

You're no better than the Noites you despise.

Thats democracy jack, ride roughshod over it if you will, but it will all end in tears and it'll be the likes of Piehead, myself and POL who'll have to save the day and the country

[thread_killer]

Democratic process indeed. No means no.

Complete farce.

I also know some yes cowards that are switching to no, over the mockery that is being made of the so-called democratic system.

The system, is fucked. It needs to be fixed, not expanded. No to more of the same shit, all over again.

[jd26]

At the time of the initial No vote, both Libertas and Sinn Fein called on the government to renegotiate the treaty.

What has changed in the meantime?

[daithi81]

Democratic process indeed. No means no.

Complete farce.

I also know some yes cowards that are switching to no, over the mockery that is being made of the so-called democratic system.

The system, is fucked. It needs to be fixed, not expanded. No to more of the same shit, all over again.

No means no.

But polls suggest that people have clearly changed their mind.

This is to be ignored in your world, correct? I mean, you guys said no, so live with it. I don't care what you want now. Tough shit.

Fine democracy, you have there...

[thread_killer]

Thankfully, we have the ability to steer the country in different directions rather than clinging to the past.

Blasphemy law? Backward abortion laws? Neutrality? Fuck sake.

[thread_killer]

No means no.

But polls suggest that people have clearly changed their mind.

This is to be ignored in your world, correct? I mean, you guys said no, so live with it. I don't care what you want now. Tough shit.

Fine democracy, you have there...

So, please tell me, what happens if, in 2010, polls suggest that people have clearly changed their mind again, as they are entitled to do?

In your world, only the no is to be ignored, once the yes is in place, it won't be so simple to have a Lisbon 3. I mean, once you guys say yes, we will all have to live with it. I don't care what you want now. Tough shit. Wheels are in motion baby.

Fine democracy you have there, indeed.

[Matlock]

Democratic process indeed. No means no.

Complete farce.

I also know some yes cowards that are switching to no, over the mockery that is being made of the so-called democratic system.

The system, is fucked. It needs to be fixed, not expanded. No to more of the same shit, all over again.

So, by your reckoning we shouldnt have divorce in Ireland?

[daithi81]

So, please tell me, what happens if, in 2010, polls suggest that people have clearly changed their mind again, as they are entitled to do?

In your world, only the no is to be ignored, once the yes is in place, it won't be so simple to have a Lisbon 3. I mean, once you guys say yes, we will all have to live with it. I don't care what you want now. Tough shit. Wheels are in motion baby.

Fine democracy you have there, indeed.

Well, thanks to the Lisbon Treaty we will have a means of leaving the EU, for the first time. So if we, the people, change our mind, we can demand it.

See how that works?

[daithi81]

Blasphemy law? Backward abortion laws? Neutrality? Fuck sake.

Warning! Nonsense alert!

[jd26]

So, please tell me, what happens if, in 2010, polls suggest that people have clearly changed their mind again, as they are entitled to do?

In your world, only the no is to be ignored, once the yes is in place, it won't be so simple to have a Lisbon 3. I mean, once you guys say yes, we will all have to live with it. I don't care what you want now. Tough shit. Wheels are in motion baby.

Fine democracy you have there, indeed.

The question then becomes whether to stay in or leave the EU. That option is always available to us.

Quite frankly I can't see what's so fantastic about the Nice rules that we would want to go back to them. The issue is a complete red herring as it is effectively an argument for perpetual stasis in the European Union. It prohibits any future changes.

[thread_killer]

So, by your reckoning we shouldn't have divorce in Ireland?

By my reckoning, we shouldn't have the church in Ireland. No marriage. No divorce. Problem, solved.

Occam's razor, like - "entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.". Or, K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid.

I wonder.

But seriously though, like I said, the whole system is fucked.

It's much easier to roll back on divorce, than this, and you know it. But the religious will be dead soon, so I don't see the divorce thing gaining popularity anytime soon, short of the second coming of Angry Jesus(tm).

[thread_killer]

Warning! Nonsense alert!

Warning, dodging alert!.

Blasphemy law! Are you seriously saying, calling that 'clinging to the past' is nonsensical? Seriously?

And you talk of clinging to the past?

[thread_killer]

Well, thanks to the Lisbon Treaty we will have a means of leaving the EU, for the first time. So if we, the people, change our mind, we can demand it.

See how that works?

I debunked that notion of yours as a positive for the treaty the last time around, in 2008.

In short, most of the actual procedures for leaving are undefined, TBD. So, yeah, lets vote for a signed, blank check. More of the same.

[jd26]

So on that basis, people should have voted no to divorce as the precise legislation wasn't known at the time of the referendum and could always be changed anyway later?

[thread_killer]

So on that basis, people should have voted no to divorce as the precise legislation wasn't known at the time of the referendum and could always be changed anyway later?

Look where that one ended up, eeh?

Yes, the system is fucked. And, no to more of the same thing.

Edit: And also, of course you could leave now. You don't need rules and procedures to be written down and signed in to law in order to just leave.

[Edmund Blackwater]

Fuck Ganley in the ear.
This has nothing to do with Ganley.
there are many reasons to vote yes and many others for voting no. Ganley is not a reason to do either.

Frankly, anyone who votes one way or the other based on anything other than what is good for the country is a retard. We know what camp you are in.

[Matlock]

Look where that one ended up, eeh?

Yes, the system is fucked. And, no to more of the same thing.

Edit: And also, of course you could leave now. You don't need rules and procedures to be written down and signed in to law in order to just leave.

What is your objection to our Divorce laws?

[thread_killer]

What is your objection to our Divorce laws?

I know nothing about them.

[Lostmeringtopaddypower]

Frankly, anyone who votes one way or the other based on anything other than what is good for the country is a retard.

I agree.

You should tell this to Lamps, though.

[daithi81]

This has nothing to do with Ganley.
there are many reasons to vote yes and many others for voting no. Ganley is not a reason to do either.

Frankly, anyone who votes one way or the other based on anything other than what is good for the country is a retard. We know what camp you are in.

Rattled.

:lol!:

[Closer80]

Rattled.

:lol!:

Again, new material, hack.

[daithi81]

Again, new material, hack.

I don't even have to address people now!

:lol!:

[Closer80]

I don't even have to address people now!

:lol!:

Hey you certainly talk to me often enough without me addressing you.

Seriously though, get new material.

Rather than admitting that maybe you don't know everything you'd prefer to keep on with your usual "rattled, pwned and exposed" bullshit. I wouldn't mind were you sticking with your guns and debating properly, as you can, but when you slip into this crap its just debasing yourself.

I know Daithi, why not say "INTERNET MELTDOWN!!"

follow it up with a :lol!:

:rolleyes:

[daithi81]

:lol!:Hey you certainly talk to me often enough without me addressing you.

Seriously though, get new material.

Rather than admitting that maybe you don't know everything you'd prefer to keep on with your usual "rattled, pwned and exposed" bullshit. I wouldn't mind were you sticking with your guns and debating properly, as you can, but when you slip into this crap its just debasing yourself.

I know Daithi, why not say "INTERNET MELTDOWN!!"

follow it up with a :lol!:

:rolleyes::lol!:

[Closer80]

:lol!::lol!:

Cheers Daithi! :rolleyes:

[jd26]

Their website is shocking.

I tried to make a donation and it just resulted in an error message.