Paul Williams Investigates: The Battle For The Gas Fields

[As Láthair]

Documentary on TV3 tonight at 9 p.m. about the Corrib gas field off Mayo.

Worth reading in advance of the programme:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/92539

[frankeechops]

Ah Paul Williams, Impartial, non-sensationalist journalisim at its best.

[gandhi]

This was the one of the most one sided documentaries I have seen, it was worthy of fox news. All it was missing was the evil music playing in the background everytime a Shell to Sea member was being interviewed. This programme should not be allowed to air on tv

[an liathroid beag]

This was the one of the most one sided documentaries I have seen, it was worthy of fox news. All it was missing was the evil music playing in the background everytime a Shell to Sea member was being interviewed. This programme should not be allowed to air on tv

Sounds like a paid up card holding Shell to Sea member. ( press freedom is the enemy!)

[Nawful_Niff]

Paul williams is a cockhead and I've emailed him in the past to rectify his mistakes from his sh!t stories in the Sunday World from the rare occasions I read it.

[gandhi]

Not a mention of Ahern and Burke and being sold up the swanny on the show

[~Hoggy~]

he referred to Eirigi as RIRA apoligists. He is so full of shit

[miahp]

Williams has no credibility whatsoever.

[Padraig Mor]

Ha ha - the tree huggers and NIMBYs are getting a bit upset now that they've apparently been shown for what they are!

[Saucyjack]

You have to laugh at these Shell to Sea Arnachists.

No respect for the law of the land and Willie Corduff's father objected to electricity to the region years ago.

36,000 made redundant in Ireland last month and these minority of fools and hippies have all the time in the world to scrounge off the state.

Yer man Hartnett dodged every question and seem a bit mad also.

[POL]

fucking renecks, the lad whose father objected getting the ESB in! FFS, thats the type of people objectingto this

[Saucyjack]

Keep Ireland Poor and Pure was one of their quotes !!!!!

Cadburys Fruit & Nut cases the lot of them with their twisted confused nationalism / fascism.

Fruitcake No.1 Harrington complaining about the cruel Irish state oppression against the majority of locals (utter cock) as she claims her state pension.

Someone get her a cat or something to take an interest in.

Lets the Guards batter them next time.

[Lamps]

Whats worse is that most of these hippies come from rich families where they can retreat to sponge off their parents for a while every time they run out of cash for yokes and wolly jumpers.

They sicken me

[Mick Lyons]

That ginger lad was lucky he didn't get a baton warped over his head for his troubles.
What a prize fucktard.
"I don't want to die, but I will if I have to", yet it turns out he's not even prepared to do 3 months in the Joy!
They should all be tear-gassed.

[Saucyjack]

That ginger lad was lucky he didn't get a baton warped over his head for his troubles.
What a prize fucktard.
"I don't want to die, but I will if I have to", yet it turns out he's not even prepared to do 3 months in the Joy!
They should all be tear-gassed.

He had a mad look in his eyes.

Very strange and deluded.

These are the fuckers who want this country to go back to the 1950's.

Twisted backward mad ideas and don't have to worry about much else obviously.

[Actin The Sham]

Your one Harrington said that she knew that she was going against the wishes of the vast majority of the population but that was because the government, opposition, and media had all been "bought off."

These fuckers should all be given barring orders keeping them at least five miles away from the site. The Gardai in the face of extreme provocation acted in an exemplary manner.


When you compare the way they acted to the way that the riot police at the WTO summits act, it would make you proud to be Irish. And I think that is why the vast majority of the people support the state in this instance.

If a Garda had beaten up a protester it would immediately go the other way, the Gardai know this and are showing unbelievable restraint.

[POL]

how much money has been wasted policing these cunts up there?

LJllMXyyRP0

how this cunt didn't get a baton in the head for that comment, I'll never know

[Cyberjoe]

The programme was a total hatchet job. Williams doesn't deserve to be called an investigative journalist.

[Saucyjack]

The programme was a total hatchet job. Williams doesn't deserve to be called an investigative journalist.

The truth is bitter.

[Actin The Sham]

The programme was a total hatchet job. Williams doesn't deserve to be called an investigative journalist.

The truth hurts.


Deal with it.

[Actin The Sham]

how much money has been wasted policing these cunts up there?

LJllMXyyRP0

how this cunt didn't get a baton in the head for that comment, I'll never know

That's one of the worst things I've ever heard. And that poor guard who got killed in Letterkenny was from Mayo and everything.

That bitch should be ashamed of herself for saying that, and those Gardai who were present and had to listen to that should be proud of themselves for showing such restraint.


We have an unarmed police force who give protesters huge leeway, but in all fairness the right to protest comes with the responsibility to respect those in authority.


She should be ashamed.

[gandhi]

how much money has been wasted policing these cunts up there?

LJllMXyyRP0

How much is wasted policing those "cunts up there" as you put is not but a fraction of the money that is wasted by selling off our natural resources for nothing.

The Dept of Natural Resources has estimated that the resources in Irish waters off the west coast are worth about 450 billion. Under the changes to the licensing scheme negotiated by Ray Burke and Bertie Ahern the state takes no royalty on any of this.

The Corrib field alone is worth over 8 billion. We get none of this, and have to buy the gas off Shell at full market rates. That's if they want to sell it to us, their contract says they can sell to whoever they like.

If Ahern and Burke had not changed the rules, we would be getting a chunk of this in royalties. As it is, we get nothing.

Now put this into perspective against the few million spent policing the Shell to Sea campaigners who are trying to highlight different concerns they have regarding this project.

Will the Irish public ever learn to question decisions that they were made by this incumbent Fianna Fail goverment. They oversaw the destruction of our banks, our goverment surplus and now they want to sell off out natural resources for next to nothing.

People need to dig a bit deeper to find out the true story behind events instead of listening to the media spin of hippies protesting and trying to bring Ireland back into the dark old ages.

This programme was a textbook lesson into media spin.. Open your eyes people of Ireland and question the status quo.

[Actin The Sham]

LJllMXyyRP0

How much is wasted policing those "cunts up there" as you put is not but a fraction of the money that is wasted by selling off our natural resources for nothing.

The Dept of Natural Resources has estimated that the resources in Irish waters off the west coast are worth about 450 billion. Under the changes to the licensing scheme negotiated by Ray Burke and Bertie Ahern the state takes no royalty on any of this.

The Corrib field alone is worth over 8 billion. We get none of this, and have to buy the gas off Shell at full market rates. That's if they want to sell it to us, their contract says they can sell to whoever they like.

If Ahern and Burke had not changed the rules, we would be getting a chunk of this in royalties. As it is, we get nothing.

Now put this into perspective against the few million spent policing the Shell to Sea campaigners who are trying to highlight different concerns they have regarding this project.

Will the Irish public ever learn to question decisions that they were made by this incumbent Fianna Fail goverment. They oversaw the destruction of our banks, our goverment surplus and now they want to sell off out natural resources for next to nothing.

People need to dig a bit deeper to find out the true story behind events instead of listening to the media spin of hippies protesting and trying to bring Ireland back into the dark old ages.

This programme was a textbook lesson into media spin.. Open your eyes people of Ireland and question the status quo.


Fuck off with your lies and inaccuracies.

The Green Party have changed the law, and profits on extracting natural gas will now be taxed at a 40% rate, thanks to Eamon Ryan TD.

[gandhi]

Fuck off with your lies and inaccuracies.

The Green Party have changed the law, and profits on extracting natural gas will now be taxed at a 40% rate, thanks to Eamon Ryan TD.


Incorrect. Get your facts right yourself before you pull someone else up. The following is from the Shell website itself.

Once in production, the Corrib Gas Partners will pay 25% tax on profits. This is twice the rate of Corporation Tax levied on all other companies in Ireland – and reflects the fact that natural resources are being harvested.

[Actin The Sham]

Incorrect. Get your facts right yourself before you pull someone else up. The following is from the Shell website itself.

Once in production, the Corrib Gas Partners will pay 25% tax on profits. This is twice the rate of Corporation Tax levied on all other companies in Ireland – and reflects the fact that natural resources are being harvested.

The Corrib field alone is worth over 8 billion. We get none of this

OK.

Let's say I buy some lentils. Let's say I sell them in the English Market. Let's say I make €100 profit after I pay everyone. I pay €12 in corporation tax to the government. Now let's say I am shell and I make profits on selling gas from the corrib gas field. I pay €25 out of every €100 I make in profits to the government.


You said in your original post that "we get none of this."


You say in your second post that we will get 25% of the profits, which is double what we would normally get.

Which is it?

"None?" or 25%?

Get your facts right yourself before you pull someone else up.

[Peggy's Leg]

LJllMXyyRP0

How much is wasted policing those "cunts up there" as you put is not but a fraction of the money that is wasted by selling off our natural resources for nothing.

Ah! So it's about the money! Sorry, I had thought it was a health and safety thing, that's much better.

[gandhi]

That bitch should be ashamed of herself for saying that, and those Gardai who were present and had to listen to that should be proud of themselves for showing such restraint.


We have an unarmed police force who give protesters huge leeway, but in all fairness the right to protest comes with the responsibility to respect those in authority.


She should be ashamed.

First of all, if you look at this video you will realise that it is not the police force that is present but a private security company hired by Shell. This private security company has been seen harassing locals on their private property. The following is an excerpt from an article in the Irish Times written by Fintan O Toole.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0916/1221430255121.html


"A private security firm has been conducting surveillance operations against local residents. One man, Colm Henry, has reported that his grandchildren were filmed walking across their family's own land to Glengad beach. The parish priest of Kilcommon, Fr Michael Nallen, who was himself photographed by a security company, has alleged that his parishioners are "prisoners in their own area".

This extraordinarily heavy-handed response might be justified in some minds by a notion that the law must be upheld, whatever the cost. But the upholding of law is all on one side. The existing law was specifically changed for Shell - for the first time, a private company was allowed to obtain compulsory purchase orders against private citizens. This new legislation was so deeply flawed that it is probably invalid - the Government had to amend it subsequently and Shell used a different legal mechanism for the amended pipeline route.

Key parts of the Corrib project have, moreover, been exempted from the normal planning laws under the Strategic Infrastructure Act - again using powers normally intended for State projects to assist a private operation.

Even with this tweaking of the law in Shell's favour, the project has been marked by some obvious illegalities. Eamon Ryan himself failed to issue notices of consent to some of the current work at Glengad, as required by law - an "oversight" we were told. Shell built a road at Glengad without planning permission - An Bord Pleanála allowed them to retain it. A Shell contractor carried out entirely unauthorised drilling in the Glenamoy area of special conservation - it was ordered to restore the area but no prosecution was taken."

In the TV3 documentary, Paul Williams kept reiterating the point that the Shell to Sea were infiltrated by Paramilitaries, however there was no mention of a certain Michael Dwyer. He was one of Shells "thugs" that worked in Mayo and then travelled to a certain South American country to engage in actions which were designed to overthrow a democratically elected government who put manners on Shell and sought to distribute profits from oil and gas among the poor majority.

In relation to your point regarding the taxing of the profits from the Corrib gas pipeline, we can, and do, tax every business on their profits.

What we don't usually do is hand over a natural resource to a business for nothing.

Even the oil companies say that the terms they can get in Ireland are the most generous in the world . Nigeria gets a better deal from its natural resources, even after years of domination by multi nationals.

Irish troops are currenty deployed in Chad, where a war is being raged. Yet even poor Chad gets a better deal from the energy companies...

Even the Irish Labour Party called the change in terms by Burke and Ahern "an act of economic treason".

I don't know which is sadder- that this deal is so patently bad for the country, or that some idiots can't see it.

[Actin The Sham]

First of all, if you look at this video you will realise that it is not the police force that is present but a private security company hired by Shell. This private security company has been seen harassing locals on their private property. The following is an excerpt from an article in the Irish Times written by Fintan O Toole.

In the TV3 documentary, Paul Williams kept reiterating the point that the Shell to Sea were infiltrated by Paramilitaries, however there was no mention of a certain Michael Dwyer. He was one of Shells "thugs" that worked in Mayo and then travelled to a certain South American country to engage in actions which were designed to overthrow a democratically elected government who put manners on Shell and sought to distribute profits from oil and gas among the poor majority.

In relation to your point regarding the taxing of the profits the Corrib gas.

We can, and do, tax every business on their profits.

What we don't usually do is hand over a natural resource to a business for nothing.
Even the oil companies say that the terms they can get in Ireland are the most generous in the world . Nigeria gets a better deal from its natural resources, even after years of domination by multi nationals.

Irish troops are currenty deployed in Chad, where a war is being raged. Yet even poor Chad gets a better deal from the energy companies...

Even the Irish Labour Party called the change in terms by Burke and Ahern "an act of economic treason".

I don't know which is sadder- that this deal is so patently bad for the country, or that some idiots can't see it.


Poor Gandhi.

What is the difference between "nothing" and "25% of the profits?"

Also, what proof have you that Michael Dwyer was engaged in actions designed to overthrow a democratically elected government?

It would appear to me that you are more concerned with international politics and tailoring the corrib gas situation to match your off the wall beliefs than what is in the best interests of our country.

Anyway: here is a suggestion. Stand for election on the basis of your beliefs and when you get elected change the law.

This is a democracy after all.

[Mick Lyons]

First of all, if you look at this video you will realise that it is not the police force that is present but a private security company hired by Shell. This private security company has been seen harassing locals on their private property. The following is an excerpt from an article in the Irish Times written by Fintan O Toole.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/0916/1221430255121.html


"A private security firm has been conducting surveillance operations against local residents. One man, Colm Henry, has reported that his grandchildren were filmed walking across their family's own land to Glengad beach. The parish priest of Kilcommon, Fr Michael Nallen, who was himself photographed by a security company, has alleged that his parishioners are "prisoners in their own area".

This extraordinarily heavy-handed response might be justified in some minds by a notion that the law must be upheld, whatever the cost. But the upholding of law is all on one side. The existing law was specifically changed for Shell - for the first time, a private company was allowed to obtain compulsory purchase orders against private citizens. This new legislation was so deeply flawed that it is probably invalid - the Government had to amend it subsequently and Shell used a different legal mechanism for the amended pipeline route.

Key parts of the Corrib project have, moreover, been exempted from the normal planning laws under the Strategic Infrastructure Act - again using powers normally intended for State projects to assist a private operation.

Even with this tweaking of the law in Shell's favour, the project has been marked by some obvious illegalities. Eamon Ryan himself failed to issue notices of consent to some of the current work at Glengad, as required by law - an "oversight" we were told. Shell built a road at Glengad without planning permission - An Bord Pleanála allowed them to retain it. A Shell contractor carried out entirely unauthorised drilling in the Glenamoy area of special conservation - it was ordered to restore the area but no prosecution was taken."

In the TV3 documentary, Paul Williams kept reiterating the point that the Shell to Sea were infiltrated by Paramilitaries, however there was no mention of a certain Michael Dwyer. He was one of Shells "thugs" that worked in Mayo and then travelled to a certain South American country to engage in actions which were designed to overthrow a democratically elected government who put manners on Shell and sought to distribute profits from oil and gas among the poor majority.

In relation to your point regarding the taxing of the profits from the Corrib gas pipeline, we can, and do, tax every business on their profits.

What we don't usually do is hand over a natural resource to a business for nothing.

Even the oil companies say that the terms they can get in Ireland are the most generous in the world . Nigeria gets a better deal from its natural resources, even after years of domination by multi nationals.

Irish troops are currenty deployed in Chad, where a war is being raged. Yet even poor Chad gets a better deal from the energy companies...

Even the Irish Labour Party called the change in terms by Burke and Ahern "an act of economic treason".

I don't know which is sadder- that this deal is so patently bad for the country, or that some idiots can't see it.

Why are you calling him a thug?

[Actin The Sham]

Why are you calling him a thug?

Because you can't libel the dead.

[gandhi]

Poor Gandhi.

What is the difference between "nothing" and "25% of the profits?"

Also, what proof have you that Michael Dwyer was engaged in actions designed to overthrow a democratically elected government?

It would appear to me that you are more concerned with international politics and tailoring the corrib gas situation to match your off the wall beliefs than what is in the best interests of our country.

Anyway: here is a suggestion. Stand for election on the basis of your beliefs and when you get elected change the law.

This is a democracy after all.

I have no intention of standing for election. What i am trying to do is to highlight that a very bad deal was was done to sell off our natural resources at a fraction of what they are worth.

I have some other issues with the whole Corrib gas pipeline and Shell including their human rights record in Nigeria including the following case.

A landmark trial against oil giant Royal Dutch Shell’s alleged involvement in human rights violations in the Niger Delta begins this Wednesday in a federal court in New York. Fourteen years after the widely condemned execution of the acclaimed Nigerian writer and environmental activist Ken Saro-Wiwa, the court will hear allegations that Shell was complicit in his torture and execution.

And also some of their shabby enviromental practices such as gas flaring.

"Gas flaring is a practice that Shell would never get away with in the US, they would never get away with in Europe, and they do it today in Nigeria twenty-four hours a day, and they’ve been doing it for decades. It’s the burning off of associated gas, gas that’s released through oil extraction activities. And they do it because it’s cheaper and easier than re-injecting the gas into the wells or actually capturing it and using it.

It could be used to actually give electricity and power to some of these impoverished villages that have enriched Shell and the Nigerian government so much. But instead, they burn it off in these toxic plumes of fire that release all kinds of toxins and enormous amounts of greenhouse gases that add to the climate crisis. And, you know, it’s something that aggravates local communities. It’s poisonous to local communities. And, you know, Shell has continued to choose to engage in this practice, because it’s more cost-efficient than doing the right thing and finding a solution with its $30 billion in annual profits and utilizing the gas or at least re-injecting it."

but the point which I am trying to get across is that it is a very bad deal for Ireland. Most other countries tax them at 50% of their profits and we have only charged them at 25%.

The problem with the whole Shell to Sea campaign is that people take a look at them and instantly think a pack of loonjobs who have nothing better to be doing. This is exactly the type of image that Shell want them to be protrayed in because in general people have a dislike for crusties. Paul Williams did his utmost to reinforce this opinion in the TV3 documentary the other night. Everytime a pro Shell spokesperson was speaking they were shown in a dignified manner probably with a pre-drafted script wheras when they showed the Shell to Sea campaigners they were being dragged from underneath a truck. It is pretty hard to look dignified in those circumstances. This programme did all it could to discredit the Shell to Sea campaign.

Willie Corduff was awarded the Goldman Environmental Prize – for his efforts to protect his community from environmental and other threats it faces from the proposed Shell/ Statoil/ Marathon Consortium’s Corrib Gas project. The Goldman is awarded annually to just six people from around the world. Here was a big story, a source of national pride, with international significance and full of human and social interest. Yet there was only a relatively low-key murmur about it in the Irish national media. When Paul Williams mentioned that Corduff had won this prize on the TV3 programme he also added which made him 100,000 euro richer. Why did this have to be said?


What the Shell to Sea need is an intelligent articualte spokesperson who can highlight the economic and enviromental concerns in a clear concise manner.

[Saucyjack]

I have no intention of standing for election. What i am trying to do is to highlight that a very bad deal was was done to sell off our natural resources at a fraction of what they are worth.

I have some other issues with the whole Corrib gas pipeline and Shell including their human rights record in Nigeria including the following case.

A landmark trial against oil giant Royal Dutch Shell’s alleged involvement in human rights violations in the Niger Delta begins this Wednesday in a federal court in New York. Fourteen years after the widely condemned execution of the acclaimed Nigerian writer and environmental activist Ken Saro-Wiwa, the court will hear allegations that Shell was complicit in his torture and execution.

And also some of their shabby enviromental practices such as gas flaring.

"Gas flaring is a practice that Shell would never get away with in the US, they would never get away with in Europe, and they do it today in Nigeria twenty-four hours a day, and they’ve been doing it for decades. It’s the burning off of associated gas, gas that’s released through oil extraction activities. And they do it because it’s cheaper and easier than re-injecting the gas into the wells or actually capturing it and using it.

It could be used to actually give electricity and power to some of these impoverished villages that have enriched Shell and the Nigerian government so much. But instead, they burn it off in these toxic plumes of fire that release all kinds of toxins and enormous amounts of greenhouse gases that add to the climate crisis. And, you know, it’s something that aggravates local communities. It’s poisonous to local communities. And, you know, Shell has continued to choose to engage in this practice, because it’s more cost-efficient than doing the right thing and finding a solution with its $30 billion in annual profits and utilizing the gas or at least re-injecting it."

but the point which I am trying to get across is that it is a very bad deal for Ireland. Most other countries tax them at 50% of their profits and we have only charged them at 25%.

The problem with the whole Shell to Sea campaign is that people take a look at them and instantly think a pack of loonjobs who have nothing better to be doing. This is exactly the type of image that Shell want them to be protrayed in because in general people have a dislike for crusties. Paul Williams did his utmost to reinforce this opinion in the TV3 documentary the other night. Everytime a pro Shell spokesperson was speaking they were shown in a dignified manner probably with a pre-drafted script wheras when they showed the Shell to Sea campaigners they were being dragged from underneath a truck. It is pretty hard to look dignified in those circumstances. This programme did all it could to discredit the Shell to Sea campaign.

Willie Corduff was awarded the Goldman Environmental Prize – for his efforts to protect his community from environmental and other threats it faces from the proposed Shell/ Statoil/ Marathon Consortium’s Corrib Gas project. The Goldman is awarded annually to just six people from around the world. Here was a big story, a source of national pride, with international significance and full of human and social interest. Yet there was only a relatively low-key murmur about it in the Irish national media. When Paul Williams mentioned that Corduff had won this prize on the TV3 programme he also added which made him 100,000 euro richer. Why did this have to be said?


What the Shell to Sea need is an intelligent articualte spokesperson who can highlight the economic and enviromental concerns in a clear concise manner.


You are talking utter cock.

I will take you on a drive some day to Pasedena,Texas City or League City just outside Houston after the sun has gone down and thats not even mentioning the offshore test rigs and fully operational rigs.

The deal is done on the Corrib gas,all the permissions are in place.

This is a democracy.

[mire]

if the corrib project was a public project - i.e. the exploration 'company' was a state-run or semi-state body, harvesting and distributing the gas resource to supplement our energy needs, would shell to sea be objecting in the same way?

probably not imo, and it would be on safety/environmental grounds only i imagine. the protest appears to have evolved into a broader argument about the loss of revenue to the state as a result of shell's involvement, and has a distinct political theme- despite the complete absence of anyone looking to make it a political issue at local/national level.

theoretical question - if the state managed to find a legal loophole that would allow them to eject shell from the deal and 'take over' the operation (i.e. that it effectively became a public project) how would the shell to sea campaign react? surely the imperative would be to maximise the return to the state, as is now their mantra, and bring the gas ashore asap. i think they wouldnt have a leg to stand on because there is minimal risk and acceptable levels of environmental impact, following the rigorous planning, environmental and H+S processes. what would their objection be based on then?

although the tv3 documantary was very poor, one cannot deny or ignore the terrible impression that the shell-to-sea people gave, and it is clear that mayo for them is merely a stage to act out their own personal and philosophical dramas. and while they are entitled to their views and protests, it's becoming increasingly embarrassing that this essentially local issue is allowed to be hijacked by, what is, basically, peoples opinionated sense of self importance and ideologies. maura harrington and the other main character were atrocious and came across as self serving, finger wagging, and immature individuals who, clealry, are enjoying the attention.

ideology and personality aside, for me, the key giveaway is the absence of any political representation at local level and the failure of J Cowley. that tells us a lot - that it is NOT a key local issue. if it were a local issue, you can be sure that we would have opportunist politicians on this big time. s2s have zero credibility. their 'cause' has disappeared.

[Bin Hex 12]

What the Shell to Sea need is an intelligent articualte spokesperson who can highlight the economic and enviromental concerns in a clear concise manner.

What Shell to Sea need is to ditch the fucking crustys and the mad Irish language fundamentalist teachers.

[gandhi]

[QUOTE=mire;2708823]
theoretical question - if the state managed to find a legal loophole that would allow them to eject shell from the deal and 'take over' the operation (i.e. that it effectively became a public project) how would the shell to sea campaign react? surely the imperative would be to maximise the return to the state, as is now their mantra, and bring the gas ashore asap. i think they wouldnt have a leg to stand on because there is minimal risk and acceptable levels of environmental impact, following the rigorous planning, environmental and H+S processes. what would their objection be based on then?" [QUOTE=mire;2708823]

Taken from another forum

The lynch pin
- the corrib licence is not valid as clause 13.2.a from Act No. 7/1960 * is not satisfied, this is the act under which the licence was awarded to Enterprise Oil (since bought by Shell) . The "such ways" in the act refers to the such ways as stated earlier in that same clause not anything that enters the Minister's mind. And "petroleum" includes natural gas.

And don't go thinking that Act No. 9/1992: 251.55 ** gets them out of it. It just allows the Minister to give them short fall money and has nothing to do with avoiding their obligations under Act No. 7/1960.

We currently only gain directly from Shell in corporation and capital gains tax, which their expert accountants are reducing to nil as we speak. These taxes (CT/CGT) are not fines, preliminary payment(s) or rent (royalty rent) as stated in the act. This is why the licence cannot be disclosed to the public as all involved know that it is illegal, a bit of old school governmental secrecy. I wonder how quickly they will write in a £1 rent clause into the old licence contract, of course they will have to show that that money was paid at the time of issuance of the licence by Enterprise Oil. I doubt if any bank in this climate is willing to throw their neck on the block to 'find' such a payment in the face of their mortgage holders who will benefit from the voiding of the licence.

The situation is a face off between Shell and Ireland. Shell says that if they go then no OPEC supporting company will replace them. Call their bluff. They will loose the licence as it is invalid in a court of law and their buddies will stab them in the back in a heart beat. Once the replacement company gets one well going, then getting investment into researching other close-by possibilities, in a peak oil era, will be a piece of piss. And then we are in the money.

*Act No. 7/1960: 13.2.a
13. —
(2) The following provisions shall apply in relation to every petroleum lease—
( a ) such lease shall be made subject to the payment to the Minister of such moneys, whether by way of fine or preliminary payment or by way of rent (including a royalty rent) or by any or all of such ways as the Minister, with the concurrence of the Minister for Finance, shall think proper and shall agree upon with the lessee
http://acts.oireachtas.ie/zza7y1960.5.html
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Natural/Petrole ... lications/


**Act No. 9/1992: 251.55
If the total amount paid by the lessee under a petroleum lease as such lessee in respect of rent, royalties, income-tax, sur-tax, corporation profits tax and rates for any period exceeds such amount as the Minister, with the consent of the Minister for Finance, may determine, a payment, equal to the excess, may be paid by the Minister for Finance out of the Central Fund or the growing produce thereof for the purpose of payment to the lessee.
http://www.irishstatutebook .ie/1992/en/ ... 9y1992s251

[QUOTE=mire;2708823]
although the tv3 documantary was very poor, one cannot deny or ignore the terrible impression that the shell-to-sea people gave, and it is clear that mayo for them is merely a stage to act out their own personal and philosophical dramas. and while they are entitled to their views and protests, it's becoming increasingly embarrassing that this essentially local issue is allowed to be hijacked by, what is, basically, peoples opinionated sense of self importance and ideologies. maura harrington and the other main character were atrocious and came across as self serving, finger wagging, and immature individuals who, clealry, are enjoying the attention.[QUOTE=mire;2708823]

I completely agree with your point that these people came off atrocious, however you have to question the editing process that took place. Editing is the master of deception. Maura Harrington is one of the biggest liabilities of the whole campaign, she totally ruins their whole credibility.

[Saucyjack]

I completely agree with your point that these people came off atrocious, however you have to question the editing process that took place. Editing is the master of deception. Maura Harrington is one of the biggest liabilities of the whole campaign, she totally ruins their whole credibility.[/QUOTE]

What credibility ?

A multi-national comes in and invests millions in a God forsaken part of the West of Ireland fully in compliance with all planning and EPA best practice guidelines and standards and a bunch of left-wing gombeens still cannot accept democracy and costing milions of Euro in Garda overtime to stop a bunch of cranks who represent only themselves.

[Padraig Mor]

I have no intention of standing for election..

Presumably because supporting S2S is a kiss of death for any candidates in the Mayo area as the vast majority of locals support the project?

[gandhi]

What credibility ?

A multi-national comes in and invests millions in a God forsaken part of the West of Ireland fully in compliance with all planning and EPA best practice guidelines and standards and a bunch of left-wing gombeens still cannot accept democracy and costing milions of Euro in Garda overtime to stop a bunch of cranks who represent only themselves.

We should not question any deal brokered by said govts for our national assests, nor request deatils or investigations into said deals.

We should all be greatful, shut up and never question the handouts that faceless coporations return back to a state for access to the states assests.

Corporations should operate in a free unregulated market allowed to make as much profit as they deem fit based on their outlay irrespective of the commodity they trade in.

There is no improprity or underhand techniques ever to be suggested insinuated or in any shape or form to be associated with said oil corporations.

We are poor boggers on the edge of Europe and should be greatful any coporation sat up and decided to make some profits here in the first place.

People who dont live in area cannot protest in that area even if the matter involves something that belongs to the nation as a whole .

Anyone who voices dissent is a loony tree hugger.

[Actin The Sham]

We should not question any deal brokered by said govts for our national assests, nor request deatils or investigations into said deals.

We should all be greatful, shut up and never question the handouts that faceless coporations return back to a state for access to the states assests.

Corporations should operate in a free unregulated market allowed to make as much profit as they deem fit based on their outlay irrespective of the commodity they trade in.

There is no improprity or underhand techniques ever to be suggested insinuated or in any shape or form to be associated with said oil corporations.

We are poor boggers on the edge of Europe and should be greatful any coporation sat up and decided to make some profits here in the first place.

People who dont live in area cannot protest in that area even if the matter involves something that belongs to the nation as a whole .

Anyone who voices dissent is a loony tree hugger.



You are in a minority position. I respect your opinion, and your right to hold that opinion, but you cannot justify the comments made about the Garda that got killed up in Donegal. That was out of order.

[Saucyjack]

We should not question any deal brokered by said govts for our national assests, nor request deatils or investigations into said deals.

We should all be greatful, shut up and never question the handouts that faceless coporations return back to a state for access to the states assests.

Corporations should operate in a free unregulated market allowed to make as much profit as they deem fit based on their outlay irrespective of the commodity they trade in.

There is no improprity or underhand techniques ever to be suggested insinuated or in any shape or form to be associated with said oil corporations.

We are poor boggers on the edge of Europe and should be greatful any coporation sat up and decided to make some profits here in the first place.

People who dont live in area cannot protest in that area even if the matter involves something that belongs to the nation as a whole .

Anyone who voices dissent is a loony tree hugger.

As usual you never address any points directly and have no other recourse other than to spout the oppressed conspiracy victim mantra.

Need to re-join the real world or move to Venezuela

[gandhi]

As usual you never address any points directly and have no other recourse other than to spout the oppressed conspiracy victim mantra.

Need to re-join the real world or move to Venezuela

Just because someone questions a business deal where our natural resources were agreed to be sold off at 25% below the market valuse and where the chief architects of the deal were Mssrs Ahern and Burke, I am a communist.

This is the same propaganda tool that was used in America during the Red Scare and more recently during the "War on Terror". Anybody who questioned the status quo were called "communists" or "anti-american".

Tell me why exactly i should move to Venezuela when I question this deal which 2 proven corrupt politicians negotiated for the natural resources of my country

[Saucyjack]

Just because someone questions a business deal where our natural resources were agreed to be sold off at 25% below the market valuse and where the chief architects of the deal were Mssrs Ahern and Burke, I am a communist.

This is the same propaganda tool that was used in America during the Red Scare and more recently during the "War on Terror". Anybody who questioned the status quo were called "communists" or "anti-american".

Tell me why exactly i should move to Venezuela when I question this deal which 2 proven corrupt politicians negotiated for the natural resources of my country

So if a deal was done with Shell that all the profits from their investment were ploughed into the local Trotskyite Gay & Lesbian Wimmins support group you would be fine with the project ?

A resourse is only a resourse if you can extract value and use from it - other than that its pnly a dream.There are billions of m2 of Oil and Gas off our coasts and when its profitable (dirty word around some places) to invest billions of dollars into seismic testing,geo surveying and finally pumping these resourses to our mutual benifit then it will happen on current terms.

This deal was done years ago and if you feel that strongly stand yourself on that ticket but will you put your neck and deposit on the line ?

Not a prayer.

A deal is a deal - even a bad one.

Do you want this country to be a pariah for foreign direct investment as we renage on deals done in the past ?

[POL]

so whats the alternative these crusties are proposing, just leave it there and get fuckall out of it?

[gandhi]

So if a deal was done with Shell that all the profits from their investment were ploughed into the local Trotskyite Gay & Lesbian Wimmins support group you would be fine with the project ?

A resourse is only a resourse if you can extract value and use from it - other than that its pnly a dream.There are billions of m2 of Oil and Gas off our coasts and when its profitable (dirty word around some places) to invest billions of dollars into seismic testing,geo surveying and finally pumping these resourses to our mutual benifit then it will happen on current terms.

This deal was done years ago and if you feel that strongly stand yourself on that ticket but will you put your neck and deposit on the line ?

Not a prayer.

A deal is a deal - even a bad one.

Do you want this country to be a pariah for foreign direct investment as we renage on deals done in the past ?

As I said previously, I do not intend to stand for election due to many reasons. First, I have a secure job in an American Financial Services Multinational company in Ireland and secondly becoming a politician does not interest me.

Why can't a person just raise awareness of a "very bad" and maybe "illegal" deal that was done to sell off our precious resources. This deal to me just stinks. The people involved in the deal Ahern and Burke ( a politician who was so corrupt, they couldn't find a way of not putting him in prison) and the corporation tax at just 25% instead of the market rate of 50%.

Why do we have to take this lying down?

It is not like this goverment have an unblemished record when it comes to conducting deals and receiving back-handers. We failed to question enough of the goverment decisions during the boom years and see where that got us. We seem to take the goverment and big business at their word instead of scratching beneath the surface.

Yet when these tree-huggers start making points, everyone automatically dismisses them as lunatics and crusties.

[Actin The Sham]

so whats the alternative these crusties are proposing, just leave it there and get fuckall out of it?

Apparently.

Leave it there, and we will continue to import 90% of our energy requirments. The russians can turn off the gas supply to Europe.

The corrib gas field will give us 60% of our natural gas needs.


The crusties want us to continue to be dependent on imports for natural gas. That way some other multi national corporation can make money out of us, and some other country can have the jobs.

[Peggy's Leg]

I have a secure job in an American Financial Services Multinational company in Ireland

It can't be that secure if you have this much posting time.

If this is really about the money, then you missed yoru chance. You'd be better off trying to renegotiate the Anglo deal.

[Bin Hex 12]

so whats the alternative these crusties are proposing?

Can you sniff it and get high? If not, they won't be interested…

[buds]

Paul Williams writes for a rag....sensationalis es everything.....gives the scum and knackers godlike status........

The documentary like the newspaper he writes for was rubbish and totally one sided reporting......

On the other hand I do hear the locals are actually in favour of the Corrib line from friends up there....and will the crusties get real......?? Harsh times we are in like and loads employed there....!!!

[gandhi]

Apparently.

Leave it there, and we will continue to import 90% of our energy requirments. The russians can turn off the gas supply to Europe.

The corrib gas field will give us 60% of our natural gas needs.


The crusties want us to continue to be dependent on imports for natural gas. That way some other multi national corporation can make money out of us, and some other country can have the jobs.

Shell are under no obligation to sell this gas to us. They can sell it at full market rate to Bord Gais and are well within their right to export it to whoever they want. THe whole idea that this gas will provide 60% of our natural gas needs is incorrect. Yes it has the potential, but Shell are under no obligation to provide it to us. They can do whatever they want with it

[Bin Hex 12]

Shell are under no obligation to sell this gas to us. They can sell it at full market rate to Bord Gais and are well within their right to export it to whoever they want. THe whole idea that this gas will provide 60% of our natural gas needs is incorrect. Yes it has the potential, but Shell are under no obligation to provide it to us. They can do whatever they want with it

Exactly. Cos it's a free country and yet these eco terrorists and national school teachers want to go against the will of the people.

[As Láthair]

As I see it there are two issues here:

1. the local issue for the people in Mayo: The high-pressure pipeline, the odourless gas, the location of the terminal etc.

2. the national issue for all of us regardless of whether we live in Mayo or not: In economic terms, are we getting what we could be getting from this find?

Here is an excerpt from "The Great Gas Giveaway":

An international study in 2002 found that only Cameroon took a
lower share of the revenues from its own oil or gas resources than
Ireland – the vast majority of countries demand that multinational
oil and gas companies pay the state proportionately twice the
amount that the Irish government is extracting from the Shell-led
consortium that is exploiting the Corrib gas field. Ghana, for
example, insists that the state-owned Ghanaian National Petroleum
Corporation has a 10 per cent ownership stake in any resource find
and the multinationals are also liable to a 50 per cent profits tax.
Ireland, by contrast, demands no state shareholding in any resource
finds, nor does it demand royalty payments. A generous (to the
companies) tax rate of only 25 per cent applies – and even that low
tax rate only kicks in after a company’s exploration and development
costs (and the estimated costs of closing down the operation when
the resources are depleted) have been recovered. The Corrib gas
field will probably be half depleted before any tax is paid at all.

Wouldn't you prefer that the country got more rather than less benefit from this find? Surely the answer is more?

[Saucyjack]

Exactly. Cos it's a free country and yet these eco terrorists and national school teachers want to go against the will of the people.

The plant is being built under all the planning approvals and licenses.

These Eco crusties are just wasps at the picnic with no respect for the rule of law or democracy.

I worked with one of them a few years ago who lived in Little Island who was threatening all sorts to Cork County Council as he lived in Little island in his
eco friendly bearded house.

Me: "What are you objecting to" ?

Bearded Wonder _ "Cork Main Drainage" - It will cause this,that,death and some of the other bad stuff that you see in films.

Me - "Did you not notice the treatment plant and pipes heading from the city past your house and its due to be finished in 6 months" ?

Bearded Wonder " Oh those pipes - I thought it was something else"

Did he object ?

Of course not as it would have cost him even at that late stage as he realised how stupid he was.

[gandhi]

The plant is being built under all the planning approvals and licenses.

These Eco crusties are just wasps at the picnic with no respect for the rule of law or democracy.

I worked with one of them a few years ago who lived in Little Island who was threatening all sorts to Cork County Council as he lived in Little island in his
eco friendly bearded house.

Me: "What are you objecting to" ?

Bearded Wonder _ "Cork Main Drainage" - It will cause this,that,death and some of the other bad stuff that you see in films.

Me - "Did you not notice the treatment plant and pipes heading from the city past your house and its due to be finished in 6 months" ?

Bearded Wonder " Oh those pipes - I thought it was something else"

Did he object ?

Of course not as it would have cost him even at that late stage as he realised how stupid he was.

Textbook reponse - Ignore the facts that we got ridden with this deal and instead bring up some anecdote about some crusty "bearded wonder" in Little Island.

This is exactly what Shell want to happen. People are more concerned with their dislike for crusty's instead of looking at the facts of the deal.

[Saucyjack]

Textbook reponse - Ignore the facts that we got ridden with this deal and instead bring up some anecdote about some crusty "bearded wonder" in Little Island.

This is exactly what Shell want to happen. People are more concerned with their dislike for crusty's instead of looking at the facts of the deal.

The only three facts to emerge so far are.

1.The plant is going ahead in accordance with all planning permissions,permits and guidelines no matter what these crusties attempt.


2. The deal was stupid and Ray Burke made it years ago but its still a deal so we just have to get on with it.

2. People dislike crusties.

[Peggy's Leg]

http://www.corribsos.com


You are bellyaching about "the deal". S2S are putting that low on the priority list, compared to "environmental, health, safety, planning and economic consequences of this government backed plan."

"The Deal" is also true in:

eircom
TEAM Aer Lingus
90% of the planning done in the last 40 years
ESAT Digifone (allegedly)

and any other government backed sell off / licence.

For God's sake, change the tune. We get it.

[gandhi]

http://www.corribsos.com


You are bellyaching about "the deal". S2S are putting that low on the priority list, compared to "environmental, health, safety, planning and economic consequences of this government backed plan."

"The Deal" is also true in:

eircom
TEAM Aer Lingus
90% of the planning done in the last 40 years
ESAT Digifone (allegedly)

and any other government backed sell off / licence.

For God's sake, change the tune. We get it.

So your attitude is, lets keep on getting screwed. What I am trying to do here is raise awarness to this issue. I guaranteed you if you asked 1oo people in Ireland what the story is with the Shell to Sea campaign up in Mayo, 95 would respond " a bunch of tree huggers with nothing better to do".

This is how the media protrays it and what Shell want. On that programme on TV3 the other night, there was no mention of the disastorous deal that was put in place by Ahern and Burke. The reason being is that if the public fully understood, there would be a lot more sympathy for the Shell to Sea campaign. The taxpayer would realise that this is hitting us in the pocket at a time when emergency budgets were put in place and income levy's introduced.

Instead all we see in the news is some "tree-hugger" locking himself underneath some truck and then being hauled off by the gardai. The regular joe soap watching this has no affiliation with these tree huggers and automatically says to himself...a bunch of nutjobs, go out and get a proper job for yourself.. again this plays straight into the goverment and shell's hands.

[Actin The Sham]

Shell are under no obligation to sell this gas to us. They can sell it at full market rate to Bord Gais and are well within their right to export it to whoever they want. THe whole idea that this gas will provide 60% of our natural gas needs is incorrect. Yes it has the potential, but Shell are under no obligation to provide it to us. They can do whatever they want with it

The gas off the west coast has the potential to provide 60% of our natural gas needs.

Look: we supplied the whole country with gas for years from the Kinsale Field. If Cork is supposed to be part of this country, then we should be entitled to the same energy security we provided to the rest of the country when the Kinsale Field was providing most of our needs.

[Bin Hex 12]

This is how the media protrays it and what Shell want. On that programme on TV3 the other night, there was no mention of the disastorous deal that was put in place by Ahern and Burke. The reason being is that if the public fully understood, there would be a lot more sympathy for the Shell to Sea campaign. The taxpayer would realise that this is hitting us in the pocket at a time when emergency budgets were put in place and income levy's introduced.

I'm sorry, your arguments there sound like those of a first year sociology student - you cannot blame the media for the coverage of what is, to all intents and purposes, a rabble set up disrupting a legitimate enterprise. There may be reasonable people, and, to be honest, you sound like one, who disagree with the project and are not nutters. However, when a tv crew goes to the protest site it is not populated with reasonable people it is full of nutjobs like that teacher and soap dodging, crusties with mangey fucking dogs on strings and clapped out camper vans running on dodgy diesel. Complaining about the government who give them €200 plus a week and subsidise their fucking lifestyle with medical cards and endless butter fucking vouchers. They are the reality that is there for the media to portray.

[Actin The Sham]

So your attitude is, lets keep on getting screwed. What I am trying to do here is raise awarness to this issue. I guaranteed you if you asked 1oo people in Ireland what the story is with the Shell to Sea campaign up in Mayo, 95 would respond " a bunch of tree huggers with nothing better to do".

This is how the media protrays it and what Shell want. On that programme on TV3 the other night, there was no mention of the disastorous deal that was put in place by Ahern and Burke. The reason being is that if the public fully understood, there would be a lot more sympathy for the Shell to Sea campaign. The taxpayer would realise that this is hitting us in the pocket at a time when emergency budgets were put in place and income levy's introduced.

Instead all we see in the news is some "tree-hugger" locking himself underneath some truck and then being hauled off by the gardai. The regular joe soap watching this has no affiliation with these tree huggers and automatically says to himself...a bunch of nutjobs, go out and get a proper job for yourself.. again this plays straight into the goverment and shell's hands.

Poor gandhi.

[Peggy's Leg]

Bit of a victim alright.

[gandhi]

I'm sorry, your arguments there sound like those of a first year sociology student - you cannot blame the media for the coverage of what is, to all intents and purposes, a rabble set up disrupting a legitimate enterprise. There may be reasonable people, and, to be honest, you sound like one, who disagree with the project and are not nutters. However, when a tv crew goes to the protest site it is not populated with reasonable people it is full of nutjobs like that teacher and soap dodging, crusties with mangey fucking dogs on strings and clapped out camper vans running on dodgy diesel. Complaining about the government who give them €200 plus a week and subsidise their fucking lifestyle with medical cards and endless butter fucking vouchers. They are the reality that is there for the media to portray.

I agree with your points in that they present themselves atrociously and they could seriously do with a spokesperson who the everyday Joe can relate to.

However there has been a definite bias in the media in how they are presented. Tony O’Reilly (the media magnate) has stakes in Marathon (one of the partners in the Corrib gas project)? Shell have also paid for full page colour ads in the same publication on more than one occasion already this year? This at a time with dwindling advertising revenue for newspaper publications.

As you said Shell to Sea are not a well run outfit whereas Shell have a well oiled PR machine which is happy to present the newspapers with "factual information" which takes mimimal rework before it goes to print.

But I completely agree with your points on the crusties, the everyday man has no sympathy for them and this plays right into Shell's hands.

A little conspiracy theory on my own behalf here is that maybe there are more articulate speakers out there on the Shell to Sea campaign but they may not get the media attention they deserve due to political reasons. Instead Shell and the media concentrate on that nutjob Harrington who the public have no sympathy for. If anything she is the best PR machine for Shell

[Bin Hex 12]

I agree with your points in that they present themselves atrociously and they could seriously do with a spokesperson who the everyday Joe can relate to.

However there has been a definite bias in the media in how they are presented. Tony O’Reilly (the media magnate) has stakes in Marathon (one of the partners in the Corrib gas project)? Shell have also paid for full page colour ads in the same publication on more than one occasion already this year? This at a time with dwindling advertising revenue for newspaper publications.

As you said Shell to Sea are not a well run outfit whereas Shell have a well oiled PR machine which is happy to present the newspapers with "factual information" which takes mimimal rework before it goes to print.

But I completely agree with your points on the crusties, the everyday man has no sympathy for them and this plays right into Shell's hands.

A little conspiracy theory on my own behalf here is that maybe there are more articulate speakers out there on the Shell to Sea campaign but they may not get the media attention they deserve due to political reasons. Instead Shell and the media concentrate on that nutjob Harrington who the public have no sympathy for. If anything she is the best PR machine for Shell

If you want to have the media support your cause it helps to have right on your side. Shell To See don't have. They have managed, in what I believe is a first, to make a multinational oil and gas exploration company look like the good guys!

[an liathroid beag]

I agree with your points in that they present themselves atrociously and they could seriously do with a spokesperson who the everyday Joe can relate to.

However there has been a definite bias in the media in how they are presented. Tony O’Reilly (the media magnate) has stakes in Marathon (one of the partners in the Corrib gas project)? Shell have also paid for full page colour ads in the same publication on more than one occasion already this year? This at a time with dwindling advertising revenue for newspaper publications.

As you said Shell to Sea are not a well run outfit whereas Shell have a well oiled PR machine which is happy to present the newspapers with "factual information" which takes mimimal rework before it goes to print.

But I completely agree with your points on the crusties, the everyday man has no sympathy for them and this plays right into Shell's hands.

A little conspiracy theory on my own behalf here is that maybe there are more articulate speakers out there on the Shell to Sea campaign but they may not get the media attention they deserve due to political reasons. Instead Shell and the media concentrate on that nutjob Harrington who the public have no sympathy for. If anything she is the best PR machine for Shell

I am afraid Shell to Sea appears to be full of nutjobs,"Looney" Harrington, Willie "spontaneous healer" Corduff, "Fight to the last drop of my mens blood" Hartnett and red roaring "kill more cops" Meg!

[i_didnt_do_nawtin]

How does Norway profit from its reserves?