Which is the better Barca champions league winning team?

[ho chi feen]

Poll to follow... very tight call for me between this year's vintage and the 2006 team.

[glue]

The 1992 team

[afeencalleddan]

Poll to follow... very tight call between this year's vintage and the 2006 team.Fuck off metoon_3m
































































I prefer the 2006 team myself.

[STEVIEG]

This team can win more

In 2006 they were better BUT pissed it away and went shit after

This team will win more IMO

[Lapsy Pa]

1992 team wasn't shabby either

Off the top of my head Zubizaretta, Sergi ,Nadal, Koeman, Ferrer (not sure) Bakero, Stoichkov, Bakgueristin (sp)

[ho chi feen]

As I said, very little between this seasons mark and 2006 for (obviously a lot of common personnel too at different points in their career).

2006:

Pros:

Ronaldinho. That incredible pace and burst of acceleration, directness, the ability to create something out of nothing- Messi has all of these, but not to the same devastating degree yet.

Defence- Marquez was a much player then than he is now, Puyol was quicker.

Cons- Iniesta yet to come of age, Deco provide the variation in play but even at his peak was less a player than Iniesta is now.

2009:

Pros:

Messi- living up to his potential, and then some.

Iniesta- see above. Incredible player.

Full-backs - Abidal and Daniel Alves an improvement on what's gone before.

Henry- not quite fit and at the races last night, but has adapted his game well after losing some of his pace, the mark of true footballing intelligence.

Cons- see Puyol, Marquez point above (although I think Puyol is, on balance, a better player all round these days). Offset somewhat by the emergence of Pique, and Milito is a good addition when fit.

Eto'o- not quite as good as was for me. Still scores loads of goals, but seems moodier and has struggled in certain big games for me (appalling in last years semis, and anonymous against Chelsea too). Took his goal brilliantly last night, but wasn't oustanding otherwise.

Fuck me, it's hard to choose. Ronaldinho is a huge swing in the 2006 lot's favour... the fact that many of this team are wise now to the dangers of not applying themselves and pissing their brilliance away a big swing for them.

[bugsy]

Was 4 in 92 so basically going on 06 and last night, realistically in direct comparisons would have to be last night. Pique over Marquez, Toure over Edmilson, Alves over Oleguer, Abidal over Gio, Iniesta over v.Bommel, Messi better now, Guardiola over Rikjaard (no disrespect to Rikjaard, wasn't desperate to see him go like some).

[ho chi feen]

Was 4 in 92 so basically going on 06 and last night, realistically in direct comparisons would have to be last night. Pique over Marquez, Toure over Edmilson, Alves over Oleguer, Abidal over Gio, Iniesta over v.Bommel, Messi better now, Guardiola over Rikjaard (no disrespect to Rikjaard, wasn't desperate to see him go like some).

I knew I was overlooking something.

[bugsy]

I knew I was overlooking something.

Tbf, the general theme of the thread is greatness, Edmilson would not exactly spring to mind.

[ho chi feen]

Tbf, the general theme of the thread is greatness, Edmilson would not exactly spring to mind.

Although to be fair, if we're comparing like with like, you'd be comparing Toure to the injured Thiago Motta, a classy player who's after rebuilding his career in spectacular fashion this season at Genoa and now off to Inter for big bucks.

In terms of first-choice midfield you're talking about:

Xavi, Thiago Motta, Deco

v

Xavi, Yaya Toure, Iniesta

Okay, this season's is certainly better but both are fairly mint.

[bugsy]

Although to be fair, if we're comparing like with like, you'd be comparing Toure to the injured Thiago Motta, a classy player who's after rebuilding his career in spectacular fashion this season at Genoa and now off to Inter for big bucks.

In terms of first-choice midfield you're talking about:

Xavi, Thiago Motta, Deco

v

Xavi, Yaya Toure, Iniesta

Okay, this season's is certainly better but both are fairly mint.


Never much of a Motta fan either, don't think he will do much for Inter. Then again, might have thought the same of Cambiasso before he went there and he's a decent player now.

[ho chi feen]

Never much of a Motta fan either, don't think he will do much for Inter. Then again, might have thought the same of Cambiasso before he went there and he's a decent player now.

Motta's been superb this year, fingers crossed for him.

Cambiasso- there's another Perez fuck up... sold to make funds to buy... Woodgate!

Add to that-

2003- abandons policy of buying the best players in the world in favour of the most marketable by turning down the chance to sign Ronaldinho in favour of Beckham; decides against buying Gabriel Milito (because they worried he mightn't be able to play too many games), who proves to be the best defender in the league for the next two seasons. Sells Makalele to free up funds for Beckham.

2004- Turns around and spends £14m on a genuine crock in Woodgate, and another £19m on Walter Samuel.

2006- leaves after third consecutive trophyless season leaving a shambles of a squad behind.

With this clown back, the future for Barca looks bright!

[The Zurich Connection]

This current Barca side are flawed... Liverpool or Chelski or would have beaten them comfortably. They were made look good.

[ho chi feen]

This current Barca side are flawed... Liverpool or Chelski or would have beaten them comfortably. They were made look good.

Yup.

:lol!:

[Up For The Ba]

Its a tough one to call really, but for me its the 92 to 94 crew... They were more diverse in the way they play. 2 problems I have with the current team..... they are very one dimensional in their play, which is fine 90% of the time because they are so good at it, but there isnt much of a plan b if things arent going their way. I think they lack the option of 2/3 powerful headers of a ball, which brings me onto my second point... very vulnerable from set plays & at times valdes has been a weak link, not so much in recent seasons it must be said.

Dream team days along these lines I think:

.................... .................... ....1: Zubizaretta

2: Ferrer.............. .4: Nadal............... ..........5: Koeman.............. 3:Sergi

7; Berguiristain (sp)........6: Bakero.........8: Guardiola........... 11: Michael Laudrup

.................... .................9: Stoichkov.......10: Romario


I think all round thats a stronger team... better keeper, much better defense... a midfield & forward line pretty much on a par really..

[STEVIEG]

Chelski or would have beaten them comfortably.

Yup football began in the final of the champions league

















I'll give you a clue thicko

Check the semi-finals you utter sports forum joke!

[The Black Knight]

Just for the way they play the game I have to go with this Barca team, although I think that both 2006 and the Dream Team had much better defenses. This is the one area along with defending set pieces in which the current Barcelona side is seriously lacking albeit not obvious from Wednesday nights final.

I go for this team, but it's a tough one to call.

[STEVIEG]

I was shocked to see that Barca have spent pretty much the same as United and Liverpool in recent years (and more this season)


The key to their performance the other night, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi, cost fuck all though and it's a credit to the club that the likes of Pique and Fabregas were developed there too

[xvis]

I don't think this is a good era for club football, ..and that would reduce the standing of the current team for me.


I'd go with 2006 out of the 3.

[KD Langer]

This current Barca side are flawed... Liverpool or Chelski or would have beaten them comfortably. They were made look good.


http://www4.ncsu.edu/~kacollin/images/HeadInHands.jpg

[Lee Bushwacker]

Motta's been superb this year, fingers crossed for him.

Cambiasso- there's another Perez fuck up... sold to make funds to buy... Woodgate!

Add to that-

2003- abandons policy of buying the best players in the world in favour of the most marketable by turning down the chance to sign Ronaldinho in favour of Beckham; decides against buying Gabriel Milito (because they worried he mightn't be able to play too many games), who proves to be the best defender in the league for the next two seasons. Sells Makalele to free up funds for Beckham.

2004- Turns around and spends £14m on a genuine crock in Woodgate, and another £19m on Walter Samuel.

2006- leaves after third consecutive trophyless season leaving a shambles of a squad behind.

With this clown back, the future for Barca looks bright!

:cool:
I'm not so sure Ho Chi. When Perez left after his previous stint he openly admitted in an interview that his policy of "Zidanes y Pavones" had been a big mistake. This involved signing top class players and mixing them with players from the ranks. Makalele, Scolari and Fernando Hierro were shafted before their time along with coach Vicente Del Bosque.
Perez is a multi-millionare and I don't think that he is going to make the same mistakes again. One of his ideas is to have as many Spanish players as possible, hence his interest in Xavi Alonso and David Villa. :)

[ho chi feen]

:cool:
I'm not so sure Ho Chi. When Perez left after his previous stint he openly admitted in an interview that his policy of "Zidanes y Pavones" had been a big mistake. This involved signing top class players and mixing them with players from the ranks. Makalele, Scolari and Fernando Hierro were shafted before their time along with coach Vicente Del Bosque.
Perez is a multi-millionare and I don't think that he is going to make the same mistakes again. One of his ideas is to have as many Spanish players as possible, hence his interest in Xavi Alonso and David Villa. :)

Yeah, he clearly didn't makings his millions upon millions through being an idiot, I'm sure he'll be a little more sensible this time.

[afeencalleddan]

This current Barca side are flawed... Liverpool or Chelski or would have beaten them comfortably. They were made look good.Heh heh heh.

Pwned.

By the way, Ho Chi's first post only included 2006 and 2009 so I'm changing my selection to 1992.

[ho chi feen]

Heh heh heh.

Pwned.

By the way, Ho Chi's first post only included 2006 and 2009 so I'm changing my selection to 1992.

It's been a bad week for Tony alright, but by fuck he never gives up trying.

[Killyoursons]

Its a tough one to call really, but for me its the 92 to 94 crew... They were more diverse in the way they play. 2 problems I have with the current team..... they are very one dimensional in their play, which is fine 90% of the time because they are so good at it, but there isnt much of a plan b if things arent going their way. I think they lack the option of 2/3 powerful headers of a ball, which brings me onto my second point... very vulnerable from set plays & at times valdes has been a weak link, not so much in recent seasons it must be said.

Dream team days along these lines I think:

.................... .................... ....1: Zubizaretta

2: Ferrer.............. .4: Nadal............... ..........5: Koeman.............. 3:Sergi

7; Berguiristain (sp)........6: Bakero.........8: Guardiola........... 11: Michael Laudrup

.................... .................9: Stoichkov.......10: Romario


I think all round thats a stronger team... better keeper, much better defense... a midfield & forward line pretty much on a par really..

Not sure about the better defence: two good full-backs, but Koeman, wonderful passer though he was, always had to be shielded. Very nice balance in the midfield. Romario only came in in '93-94, they had won most of their trophies by then. Julio Salinas, Ireland's destroyer at Landsdowne, was in the squad, but Cryuff was never very keen on him.
The point you make about the current team lacking powerful headers is odd - Puyol, Pique and Marquez are all pretty good in the air, whereas in the team above only Nadal stands out in that department.

Thign about the dream team is how incredibly lucky they were. Every great team needs luck at soem stage, but that Barca side was absoltuely haunted at times. Three leagues handed to them by their rivals blowing up on the last day. Plus, if you look at the teams they beat in Europe, there were few enough serious rivals: nothing to compare with Milan versus Madrid (89), or indeed Barca (94), Ajax versus Real (96), or Juve versus Ajax (97). A very fine team, but I'd be slow to have them among the all-time greats.

[ho chi feen]

The point you make about the current team lacking powerful headers is odd - Puyol, Pique and Marquez are all pretty good in the air, whereas in the team above only Nadal stands out in that department.

Eto'o is also a great header of the ball, although we don't see much of that because of the way in which they play.

[Ooompa]

Maybe have this poll again in 12 months. The current team, while not having an awful lot to prove, must sustain their performace next season to be remembered as an all tiem great.

That being said, I do think they will be remembered thsi way. It is quite a young team - Henry aside. The heartbeat of the side in Iniesta and Xavi have a telepathic understanding, Messi is 21 and already the worlds best. Etoo is 28 and has at least another 4 good seasons in him. Busquets has been a revelation this season, as has Pique for that matter. Maybe with the exception of Etoo, all these guys have their best years ahead of them.

Then factor in Bojan, Pedro, Victor Sanchez, Muniez and Xavi Torres emerging through, you have a decent looking future as well.

Also, 6 of the 11 that started the other night came through the academy. That is an amazing achievement.

[bugsy]

Maybe have this poll again in 12 months. The current team, while not having an awful lot to prove, must sustain their performace next season to be remembered as an all tiem great.

That being said, I do think they will be remembered thsi way. It is quite a young team - Henry aside. The heartbeat of the side in Iniesta and Xavi have a telepathic understanding, Messi is 21 and already the worlds best. Etoo is 28 and has at least another 4 good seasons in him. Busquets has been a revelation this season, as has Pique for that matter. Maybe with the exception of Etoo, all these guys have their best years ahead of them.

Then factor in Bojan, Pedro, Victor Sanchez, Muniez and Xavi Torres emerging through, you have a decent looking future as well.

Also, 6 of the 11 that started the other night came through the academy. That is an amazing achievement.


7 even.

[Ooompa]

Of the starting XI

Valdes
Puyol
Pique
Xavi
Iniesta
Busquets
Messi

I forgot about Busquets even after mentioning him earlier on in my post :rolleyes:

[bugsy]

Of the starting XI

Valdes
Puyol
Pique
Xavi
Iniesta
Busquets
Messi

I forgot about Busquets even after mentioning him earlier on in my post :rolleyes:

Plus I think 4 on the bench, and the manager. Top class.

[Ooompa]

On the bench was Bojan, Pedro, Hleb, Gudjonnsen, Pinto and Keita. So I am missing the other homegrown player.

[afeencalleddan]

On the bench was Bojan, Pedro, Hleb, Gudjonnsen, Pinto and Keita. So I am missing the other homegrown player.Muniesa was involved the other night too, wasn't he?

[Ooompa]

He was in the travelling party, but I am not sure did he make the bench.

[legend76]

the funny thing is the '94 team who got thumped by milan were probably better than the '92 team on paper. as Ho Chi said it's very close between 2006 and 2009. time will tell just how good that side and especially Messi will become. it's frightening to think he's only 21. so on the basis of potential 2009 edge for me

[bugsy]

On the bench was Bojan, Pedro, Hleb, Gudjonnsen, Pinto and Keita. So I am missing the other homegrown player.


Ok, I was counting Muniesa and wasn't sure which one of the keepers was there. Still pretty damn good!

[Up For The Ba]

Not sure about the better defence: two good full-backs, but Koeman, wonderful passer though he was, always had to be shielded. Very nice balance in the midfield. Romario only came in in '93-94, they had won most of their trophies by then. Julio Salinas, Ireland's destroyer at Landsdowne, was in the squad, but Cryuff was never very keen on him.
The point you make about the current team lacking powerful headers is odd - Puyol, Pique and Marquez are all pretty good in the air, whereas in the team above only Nadal stands out in that department.

Thign about the dream team is how incredibly lucky they were. Every great team needs luck at soem stage, but that Barca side was absoltuely haunted at times. Three leagues handed to them by their rivals blowing up on the last day. Plus, if you look at the teams they beat in Europe, there were few enough serious rivals: nothing to compare with Milan versus Madrid (89), or indeed Barca (94), Ajax versus Real (96), or Juve versus Ajax (97). A very fine team, but I'd be slow to have them among the all-time greats.


No question in my mind on which team had a better defence, not even close. On the aerial ability... You are over overlooking Stoichkov & Guardiola. For a small guy Romario could also score from these situations.

Romario indeed came after that win but im kinda breaking this down into the eras rather than the teams on the night in question.

With regard to the competition at the time, its always debatable. Well look at it this way, most United fans think the 99 team was better than this one...yet this current side is currently enjoying more success, is that to say that standards have slipped somewhat? Possibly so.... Do you think the current Barcelona side would beat the Milan team of the early 90`s? Im not so sure... as magnificent as the current Barca side is, it has more obvious frailties than the 92-94 one for me.

[Up For The Ba]

the funny thing is the '94 team who got thumped by milan were probably better than the '92 team on paper. as Ho Chi said it's very close between 2006 and 2009. time will tell just how good that side and especially Messi will become. it's frightening to think he's only 21. so on the basis of potential 2009 edge for me

That proves nothing, its one game & results like that happen from time to time. Barca were probably favourites going into that game, Milan no longer had Gullit, Van Basten or Rijkaard, Savicivic was unreal at the time though.

[legend76]

That proves nothing, its one game & results like that happen from time to time. Barca were probably favourites going into that game, Milan no longer had Gullit, Van Basten or Rijkaard, Savicivic was unreal at the time though.

I don't follow.

what do you think I was trying to prove??

[Up For The Ba]

I don't follow.

what do you think I was trying to prove??

All im trying to say is that they lost that final in "one of those games". Nobody could believe the result that night, I felt sorry for Barca as it could have taken them onto another level but it wasnt to be. The result puts a major tarnish on the achviements of a really, really good side.

[legend76]

All im trying to say is that they lost that final in "one of those games". Nobody could believe the result that night, I felt sorry for Barca as it could have taken them onto another level but it wasnt to be.

how is that different from what I said?? I think that they were probably a better team on paper than the '92 side.

mad when you think about those sides who could only have three foreigners in the side

[Up For The Ba]

how is that different from what I said?? I think that they were probably a better team on paper than the '92 side.

mad when you think about those sides who could only have three foreigners in the side

Im just enforcing the point cos it was mentioned by someone else that this side got thumped 4-0 by a depleted Milan side, which tarnishes their legacy of course.

[legend76]

Im just enforcing the point cos it was mentioned by someone else that this side got thumped 4-0 by a depleted Milan side, which tarnishes their legacy of course.

cool. we're on the same page there. when you said "that proves nothing" you were refering to the result as opposed to my post.

[Up For The Ba]

cool. we're on the same page there. when you said "that proves nothing" you were refering to the result as opposed to my post.

Ya, not directed at you at all.

[REMIMUFC]

Been the first side in the history of the spanish league to do a treble wouldnt make you einstein to know that the current team is the best ever even with their dodgy defence

[Killyoursons]

No question in my mind on which team had a better defence, not even close. On the aerial ability... You are over overlooking Stoichkov & Guardiola. For a small guy Romario could also score from these situations.

Romario indeed came after that win but im kinda breaking this down into the eras rather than the teams on the night in question.

With regard to the competition at the time, its always debatable. Well look at it this way, most United fans think the 99 team was better than this one...yet this current side is currently enjoying more success, is that to say that standards have slipped somewhat? Possibly so.... Do you think the current Barcelona side would beat the Milan team of the early 90`s? Im not so sure... as magnificent as the current Barca side is, it has more obvious frailties than the 92-94 one for me.

Stoichkov? Aerial ability? Better than Marques, or Pique, or Puyol? I'd be surprised.
Defences - maybe the '91-94 team were better man-for-man. The stats don't show much between them, though. Through 91-94, Barca conceded, respectively, 33, 37, 34, and 42 goals in La Liga. This year, in 37 matches they've conceded 34. And the dream team never came near scoring as many (104).
I'd have made that Milan team favourites. Don't see why it's relevant, though - look what happened when they played Barca...
However, I agree with whoever said let's run this again in 12 months.

[Lapsy Pa]

This current Barca side are flawed... Liverpool or Chelski or would have beaten them comfortably. They were made look good.

I suppose their 'suspect defence' would be found out.

[ho chi feen]

I suppose their 'suspect defence' would be found out.

Yeah, just like Chelsea found it out last month when they made the Champions League final... :lol!: