rafa el retardo

[devvy devverson]

Rafa Benitez has suggested that injuries to Fernando Torres have cost Liverpool the title.


The Spaniard has played in only 15 Premier League games for Liverpool this season and will be missing again when the Reds play Sunderland on Tuesday.


Liverpool are now seven points behind leaders Manchester United after a 2-0 defeat to Middlesbrough without Torres.


"The worst thing has been the injuries to Torres," said Benitez. "He has been our main striker and scored a lot of goals for us last season.


"And this season could have been totally different with him.


"The title was difficult before, it is more difficult now. What we have to do is take our chances, and that is something that has been the same problem the whole season.


"Maybe if Torres had not been injured so much things would be different, but we cannot change the situation now. Everybody has players who get injured.


"Since the Champions League win in Madrid we have had some problems, several players have been injured, among other things."










a pathetic squad, managed and cared for extremely poorly.

treatment of robert keane( of whom im no fan)?????? a disgrace!!!!!!!

here is hoping he stays at anfield.

[Ooompa]

Perhaps had he spent the £200 milliona touch better he would not need to make such silly assertions.

[EL TORO]

The man is a clown. He has a squad worth 200 million and is still whinging. There is a team not very far away from his that are still in contention to play in Europe next season, still playing in the fa cup and their net worth?? £42 million. As for injuries... No strikers for 4 months of the season and the talismanic midfielder is out till next season. Any complaints from Moyes? Nope, its all part of the game. Rafa is a clown and the longer he remains the better.

[Actin The Sham]

The man is a clown.

You sound like Eamon Dunphy.

By the way did you see the comment he made last week where he said "the 1990 World Cup final went to penalties?"


What a langer.

It was won by a penalty (Germany 1-0 Argntina) but the penalty was awarded during play.

It was also the first world cup final where one team did not score, as far as I know.

[AmadeusDC]

You sound like Eamon Dunphy.

By the way did you see the comment he made last week where he said "the 1990 World Cup final went to penalties?"


What a langer.

It was won by a penalty (Germany 1-0 Argntina) but the penalty was awarded during play.

It was also the first world cup final where one team did not score, as far as I know.

WTF?!?!? Score from open play perhaps? If not 90 then it's 94 either way.

-AmadeusDC-

[STEVIEG]

WTF?!?!? Score from open play perhaps? If not 90 then it's 94 either way.

-AmadeusDC-

In all previous finals the losing team scored at least once, is what he means

[Jim Comic]

all managers make weird claims when things go against them, look at fergie and wenger over the years

i wouldn't read too much into it

[buds]

maybehe should have stuck with keane.....at least until the end of the season...or maybe bought a replacement????????? ???

[Philby]

As if having the best striker in the world fit for the entire season instead of a half-fit one available in fits and starts would've made any difference to Liverpool's season?

Madness.

[STEVIEG]

maybehe should have stuck with keane.....at least until the end of the season...or maybe bought a replacement????????? ???



Ngog ain't the answer i'd be thinking


http://i39.tinypic.com/nn5mv4.jpg

[KD Langer]

As if having the best striker in the world fit for the entire season instead of a half-fit one available in fits and starts would've made any difference to Liverpool's season?

Madness.

or not treating a decent striker like shit just to prove a point might have helped the TEAM and not rafa's fat fucking ego??????

[Philby]

or not treating a decent striker like shit just to prove a point might have helped the TEAM and not rafa's fat fucking ego??????

I don't see how selling Keane (and dealing with all the abuse that came his way as a result) fuelled his ego to be honest.

Of all the top premiership managers of past & present Rafa could quite easily be described as one of the least ego-driven of them all.

I wish there was a way that every discussion about Benitez wouldn't have to turn into a Robbie Keane debate, it's getting a tad boring at this stage.

People just see Rafa's name and spew bullshit from the mouth automatically, regardless of what he has said.

He said that Liverpool would've done better this year with a fully fit Fernano Torres.

Anyone who doesn't agree with that is truly clueless. End of.

[STEVIEG]

As if having the best striker in the world fit for the entire season instead of a half-fit one available in fits and starts would've made any difference to Liverpool's season?

Madness.


didn't make much difference last year

Rafa will always have an excuse at the ready

he is a bit of a bullshitter in fairness

Hope he signs that contract asap though

[legend76]

Ngog ain't the answer i'd be thinking


http://i39.tinypic.com/nn5mv4.jpg

:p

[Philby]

didn't make much difference last year

You think that the presence (and glut of goals) of Torres didn't make any difference to Liverpool's season last year.

Is this guy insane?

Rafa will always have an excuse at the ready

he is a bit of a bullshitter in fairness

http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05/63b_08_grey_415x275. jpg

“Get that kit off!” screamed United manager Sir Alex Ferguson when the team returned to the dressing room for half-time.


Hope he signs that contract asap though

Me too. Lets go for drinks to celebrate when he signs on the dotted line eh?

[STEVIEG]

Last year he played loads and scored loads and Liverpool fell short

This year he played less and obviously scored less and........we will see what happens



Rafa makes more excuses than any manager i have ever heard of

the fact that you had to go back over 10 years to find a pathetic excuse by Fergie, in a title winning season, says it all

[STEVIEG]

Even Piers Morgan, a knob admittedly, makes one or two decent points about Rafa


Benitez - genius or the most arrogant manager of all time?


So, Rafa Benitez has won the Liverpool power struggle. Rick Parry, the chief executive, is leaving. And Rafa will now presumably have total control over transfers and get a nice big pay rise. But while agreeing that Parry was an interfering old busybody, am I the only one who isn't so convinced by Benitez's supposed genius?

There has always been something very irritating about the Spaniard. The goatee beard is not a good start. He clearly thinks it makes him look like Johnny Depp. When, dare I politely suggest, George Michael after a hard night on Hampstead Heath is a more appropriate comparison?

The Rafa show: He's going, he's staying, he's the biggest star at Anfield
The cheap-looking glasses, hideous patterned ties and ill-fitting suits do nothing to counter the general impression of a middle- ranking bank manager. But the most annoying thing about him is that he could be so much more successful if he just managed to find a few seconds in every day to stop thinking about himself and dwell on his team for a moment.

Benitez has to be the most arrogant manager ever to grace the Premier League. Which, when you consider the competition, is a pretty amazing achievement. Jose 'I'm the Special One' Mourinho has an ego the size of several planets, Sir Alex Ferguson makes Emperor Nero look timid and dear old Sam Allardyce is still banging on about how he should be England manager, when most of us think he'd struggle to run a pub side these days.
But Benitez is cockier than all of them, in his own peculiar way. You just know that he wakes up every morning, struts to the bathroom in his purple Noel Coward smoking jacket, takes a long, hard look at himself in the mirror, and smirks: 'Rafa, you is looking the bizzo today!'

Liverpool were cruising at the top of the League at the turn of the year. They looked strong in depth and focused and I genuinely thought, if Gerrard and Torres stayed fit, they might go on and win the title. Then came Dossier Day. The moment that Benitez decided to make it all about himself again.
Instead of exuding a firm air of menacing confidence about his players, which would have instilled fear and panic into the ranks of Liverpool's already struggling opponents, he exploded in a veritable orgy of selfindulgence. Out he marched, jowls twitching, goatee glistening, brow furrowed, and positively dripping with prickly defensiveness. And for the next half an hour he laid into Sir Alex in a fit of indignant pique that was toe-curling to watch.
When he'd finished going through his ridiculous fact-file, he sat back like a smug geography teacher having just administered another tedious lecture to the class on their collective shortcomings. And I sat back and chuckled loudly to myself, exactly as I suspect Sir Alex did in Manchester.
'Game over,' he must have thought. Dossier Day was not the only time Benitez has made it all about himself. For most of the season, Liverpool's achievements on the field have been overshadowed by their manager's contractual wranglings. He's going, he's staying, he's angry, he's frustrated, he's . . . he's . . . he's Rafa Benitez, the biggest star at the club! This week Liverpool fans will forgive him anything given their excellent win at Real Madrid. 'Give Rafa the freedom of the city!' was the cry from the world's most emotional supporters. To which I reply: 'Calm down, calm down.'

Particularly after yesterday's terrible performance against Middlesbrough. Benitez is, indisputably, tactically astute, massively experienced and worthy of considerable praise as a coach. But Liverpool are not an exciting team to watch. They're hard to beat, granted. They're also, however, a bunch of boring long-ball merchants prepared to grind out results and catch opposition sides on the break. And when you analyse Benitez's actual record as manager, from a historical perspective, the position looks even less impressive.

He won the Champions League in his first season at Liverpool, making himself an instant Kop god in the process. But that was four years ago and since then he's added only one FA Cup and a Community Shield to the mix (I'm not knocking that joke of a trophy, by the way. We Arsenal fans would do cartwheels of ecstasy for the Shield right now).

This season was the closest Liverpool have come to winning the Premier League and they almost certainly blew it when they had it in their hands. Because, at the crucial moment, when the players looked to their manager for the kind of supreme Churchillian 'Let us go forward together' speech that might drive them on to victory, he turned it into the Rafa Benitez show.
The best manager Liverpool ever had was not the magnificently eloquent Bill Shankly. It was Bob Paisley. A humble, absurdly modest, quietly-spoken man who won six league titles, three European cups, one UEFA cup, three League Cups, a UEFA Super Cup, and five Community Shields. Paisley would rather have inserted electrodes into his spinal cord than constantly big himself up ahead of his players. And I bet he never once asked for a pay rise.

[KD Langer]

so philby, keane wouldn't be a better option thatn kuyt, el haza and n gog?



pull the other one.......

[Philby]

Last year he played loads and scored loads and Liverpool fell short

This year he played less and obviously scored less and........we will see what happens

Do you enjoy being so obtuse?

If you don't think Torres' prolonged absence has harmed Liverpool's season then you should get your head looked at fella.

Rafa makes more excuses than any manager i have ever heard of

the fact that you had to go back over 10 years to find a pathetic excuse by Fergie, in a title winning season, says it all

What are you on about....?

Ferguson is constantly ranting and providing excuses..here's 5 off the top of my head!!

- The grey shirt fiasco...what a spoofer

- His obsession with David Dein's relationship with the FA (which he has no problem with now that the scenario is in his favour)

- Fixtures being set up to handicap his beloved United...paranoid ramblings of a drunk

- Blaming the pitch and the referee (but not his goalkeeper) for the FA Cup exist at Old Trafford at the hands of the hammers

- On being comforatbly beaten over two legs & dumped out of the CL by Milan - "We've not had much help from the Premier League."

[Philby]

so philby, keane wouldn't be a better option thatn kuyt, el haza and n gog?

pull the other one.......

Again...

I wish there was a way that every discussion about Benitez wouldn't have to turn into a Robbie Keane debate, it's getting a tad boring at this stage.

Compare and contrast Yossi Benayoun's performance to those of Robbie Keane since Robbie was shunned & sent to Spurs.

On the one hand people derided Keane calling him a waster but on the other hand they are using his sale as a stick to beat Benitez when in reality he has shifted Yossi into the role Keane was playing and the Israeli has outperformed the Irishman.

Best to ignore that though and just go down the bash Benitez route.

It's less mentally taxing that way.

[STEVIEG]

Do you enjoy being so obtuse?

If you don't think Torres' prolonged absence has harmed Liverpool's season then you should get your head looked at fella.



What are you on about....?

Ferguson is constantly ranting and providing excuses..here's 5 off the top of my head!!

- The grey shirt fiasco...what a spoofer

- His obsession with David Dein's relationship with the FA (which he has no problem with now that the scenario is in his favour)

- Fixtures being set up to handicap his beloved United...paranoid ramblings of a drunk

- Blaming the pitch and the referee (but not his goalkeeper) for the FA Cup exist at Old Trafford at the hands of the hammers

- On being comforatbly beaten over two legs & dumped out of the CL by Milan - "We've not had much help from the Premier League."


Poor digging


for Dein read David Gill

For fixture list compalints read Rafa two years ago

Fergie also celarly said that this years fixtures would benefit his team after Xmas

Seems to have got that one right too

Rafa is a joker
No excuses can disguise this

[STEVIEG]

If you don't think Torres' prolonged absence has harmed Liverpool's season then you should get your head looked at fella.





all teams have injuries

But their managers don't always go moaning and crying about it all the time

By not providing good cover and playing a player with suspect hamstrings too soon after injury Rafa has arguably contributed to this problem anyway




The guy has gone mental since his rant back in January in fairness

[KD Langer]

yes philby, the last thing liverpool need now is a decent centre forward.yossi is the answer. rafa is a genius....etc etc


philby i'm not on a wind up here, but as a united fan i genuinely hope rafa signs his new contract.

[youghalboi]

all teams have injuries

But their managers don't always go moaning and crying about it all the time

By not providing good cover and playing a player with suspect hamstrings too soon after injury Rafa has arguably contributed to this problem anyway




The guy has gone mental since his rant back in January in fairness

If anyone has reason to to be crying and moaning about injuries this season its David Moyes

[STEVIEG]

If anyone has reason to to be crying and moaning about injuries this season its David Moyes

yup

just gets on with it


Arsenal and Chelsea are two other teams with big injury lists, though Wenger could probably have covered his team better

[EL TORO]

Philby, I admire your loyalty to the cause but if I was a liverpool fan I would be less than impressed with the gaffer. Torres is a quality player ( no way the best striker in the world however), and Gerrard is class also. These two players are without a doubt the fulcrum of Liverpool's team, everyone else in the side is at best average.

Liverpool for all Rafa's spending are nowhere near ready to win the league, two players do not make a title winning team. I also hope Rafa stays on as he is becoming a bit of a comical character recently and far less menacing to us Blues than say Dagleish et al.

It could very well be a trophyless season for the reds this year and after all the early bleating this season, it has to come down to the manager in the end. SAF will be opening a lovely bottle of rioja on the final day of this season I reckon, with not the slightest hint of irony.

[Philby]

- His obsession with David Dein's relationship with the FA (which he has no problem with now that the scenario is in his favour)


Poor digging

for Dein read David Gill


Er...that was my whole point Stevie.

Ferguson kept bleating on about Dein's position on the FA board but shut right up when his man Gill wormed his way in there.

[Philby]

For fixture list compalints read Rafa two years ago

Fergie also celarly said that this years fixtures would benefit his team after Xmas

Loads of managers complain about fixtures but Mr. Ferguson went a step further and accussed the Premier League of purposely handicapping his side this year (and bizarrely blamed them for United's CL exit at Milan).

Lunacy.

Rafa is a joker
No excuses can disguise this

You've obviously got your agenda & no-one will convince you otherwise but you seem intent on turning every comment the man makes into evidence that he has lost it/is rattled/is a joker etc.

Have some perspective.

[Philby]

yes philby, the last thing liverpool need now is a decent centre forward.yossi is the answer. rafa is a genius....etc etc

Yossi has stepped up from the fringes of the squad, come in and played the "Keane role" and done very well indeed. He has looked sharp, inventive and has both scored and contributed to a number of goals in recent weeks.

If you're up for having a debate then great but when presented with evidence that the absence of Keane hasn't had a material impact on the side you retreat into nonsense replies.

philby i'm not on a wind up here, but as a united fan i genuinely hope rafa signs his new contract.

Ok fella. It's no skin off my nose.

http://home.skysports.com/images/playerpics06_07/Experts/philthompsonmain.jpg

[STEVIEG]

Er...that was my whole point Stevie.

Ferguson kept bleating on about Dein's position on the FA board but shut right up when his man Gill wormed his way in there.

There was speculation that Dein used his influence against United

what has Gill done-got a joke ban for Evra overturned?

I think not

[STEVIEG]

You've obviously got your agenda & no-one will convince you otherwise but you seem intent on turning every comment the man makes into evidence that he has lost it/is rattled/is a joker etc.

Have some perspective.

It is all about perspective

This is the same guy who was pointing to the league table for months saying his team were top

Until he gets back there i'll keep my opinion, that i have expressed freely here since 2004, that he is not a great manager

(Tried digging up my "are you houllier in disguise?" thread but it's gone)



You are right about Benayoun though

he is doing well

and it is good to blood the El Zhar and Ngogs

[BlueSkies]

didn't make much difference last year

Rafa will always have an excuse at the ready

he is a bit of a bullshitter in fairness

Hope he signs that contract asap though

Torres being fit didn't make much of a difference last season?
You can't be serious?

[STEVIEG]

Torres being fit didn't make much of a difference last season?
You can't be serious?

Torres did and was prob the best out and out striker in the league with Adebayor

But Liverpool did fuck all in the league

and Rafa had loads more excuses



This is my point

Players get injured but it is up to him to get on with it

He contributed to it himself (arguably) by having few options upfront

Tony Mowbray at West Brom makes fewer excuses

[BlueSkies]

Torres did and was prob the best out and out striker in the league with Adebayor

But Liverpool did fuck all in the league

and Rafa had loads more excuses



This is my point

Players get injured but it is up to him to get on with it

He contributed to it himself (arguably) by having few options upfront

Tony Mowbray at West Brom makes fewer excuses

Okay I take your point, but you're directly contradicting your earlier post.

[Philby]

There was speculation that Dein used his influence against United

It was old purple nose that generated that speculation Stevie!!

what has Gill done-got a joke ban for Evra overturned?

I think not

Who knows what he has done?

Without Fergie the conspiracy nut out there checking behind the couch of the FA I guess we'll never know.

The whole point was you were picking up on Rafa making excuses (when all he said was that Liverpool would've had a better season with Torres fully fit & available) and making out that Ferguson was whiter than white on this front...clearly he's not, I pulled out 5 just off the top of my head.

You view everything Rafa says and does through a skewed lens fella (although you'd probably say the same about me).

- The grey shirt fiasco...what a spoofer

- His obsession with David Dein's relationship with the FA (which he has no problem with now that the scenario is in his favour)

- Fixtures being set up to handicap his beloved United...paranoid ramblings of a drunk

- Blaming the pitch and the referee (but not his goalkeeper) for the FA Cup exist at Old Trafford at the hands of the hammers

- On being comforatbly beaten over two legs & dumped out of the CL by Milan - "We've not had much help from the Premier League."

[STEVIEG]

Okay I take your point, but you're directly contradicting your earlier post.

How?

I may have made my point badly but i've been consistent on this

Rafa has too many excuses and contributed to his own problems


If Torres was 100% fit every game i don't think Liverpool would be 10 points better off

They won some big games without him too

[Philby]

Okay I take your point, but you're directly contradicting your earlier post.

In Stevie's mind

Being the best out & out striker in the league = "didn't make much difference"

...when it suits him.

[STEVIEG]

You view everything Rafa says and does through a skewed lens fella (although you'd probably say the same about me).

and you think the sun shines through his arse

Maybe you are right


In Rafa we trust

[Philby]

If Torres was 100% fit every game i don't think Liverpool would be 10 points better off

Do you think Liverpool would be any better off?

Because that is the point that is, bizarrely, being debated.

[STEVIEG]

In Stevie's mind

Being the best out & out striker in the league = "didn't make much difference"

...when it suits him.

Where did Liverpool finish?

There league hopes were gone by Xmas

[STEVIEG]

Do you think Liverpool would be any better off?

Because that is the point that is, bizarrely, being debated.

They might not have beaten Chelsea twice and United once

But they might have turned a few more draws into victories

I dunno, maybe about 3 or 4 points better



It's a weak excuse

many players who played Euro 2008 have had injuries
and many big name prem players have struggled at points this season with them

Ronaldo, Rooney, Drogba, Adebayor, Fabregas, Essien etc etc etc

Shit happens


Managers don't go moaning every two minutes about it though

[Philby]

and you think the sun shines through his arse

Maybe you are right

In Rafa we trust

I've said a load of times on here that I recognise that he has flaws but my underlying opinion is that he has done well so far at LFC and given the paucity of better options and the likely negative short-to-medium term impact of his departure I want him to stay at the club.

[STEVIEG]

I've said a load of times on here that I recognise that he has flaws but my underlying opinion is that he has done well so far at LFC and given the paucity of better options and the likely negative short-to-medium term impact of his departure I want him to stay at the club.

They are in a good position to win the Champions League aswell too

Even as much as i don't rate him

It would be stupid to sack him at this point in time

He always seems to do just enough to get by

Hope it doesn't mean a league or Champions victory this season but he will survive

[Philby]

They might not have beaten Chelsea twice and United once

But they might have turned a few more draws into victories

I dunno, maybe about 3 or 4 points better

So you now recognise that having Torres fit a lot more this season would've improved Liverpool chances.

Managers don't go moaning every two minutes about it though

I didn't realise he has been. The interview this week was the first I've heard where he spoke about Torres' injury absences in relation to the deterioration of Liverpool's league chances. Maybe you follow Rafa's press appearances closer than me and have spotted more?

[STEVIEG]

So you now recognise that having Torres fit a lot more this season would've improved Liverpool chances.




maybe it would have

maybe it would not have

I prefer to talk in facts, not ifs and buts

The fact is, this is speculation

Rafa of all people should know what a fact is

[chabal]

I've said a load of times on here that I recognise that he has flaws but my underlying opinion is that he has done well so far at LFC and given the paucity of better options and the likely negative short-to-medium term impact of his departure I want him to stay at the club.

There were many making the same arguements to hang onto Houllier a few years back, the club went thru dull year after year hanging onto him for 1 more season to see if things would improve.

Replacing Rafa isn't likely to have much negative impact at the club. The club aren't likely to win the english league until he goes, the english league is what they want more than the champions league. So if they want to be winners in the english they have to simply grab the bull by the horns and get in another manager. They held onto Evans and Houllier for too long, they will make the same mistake with Rafa.

[STEVIEG]

I didn't realise he has been. The interview this week was the first I've heard where he spoke about Torres' injury absences in relation to the deterioration of Liverpool's league chances. Maybe you follow Rafa's press appearances closer than me and have spotted more?


He was saying it before the Chelsea game earlier this season too

He had a point that time most managers give out about international games

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/3211711/Fernando-Torres-injury-blow-sparks-Liverpool-and-Rafael-Benitez-fury-Football.html

and he mentioned Wigan too, both games they won

maybe he was better off without Nando?

PS-I'm joking

[Philby]

maybe it would have

maybe it would not have

I prefer to talk in facts, not ifs and buts

The fact is, this is speculation

Rafa of all people should know what a fact is

Let's hold off on any future debate so as historical facts are all that matters apparently.

He was saying it before the Chelsea game earlier this season too

He had a point that time most managers give out about international games

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/3211711/Fernando-Torres-injury-blow-sparks-Liverpool-and-Rafael-Benitez-fury-Football.html

and he mentioned Wigan too, both games they won

maybe he was better off without Nando?

PS-I'm joking

In many games this season Liverpool were probably stronger without Torres as opposed to with a Torres who was gingerly nursing himself back to fitness and was nowhere near 100%.

A fully fit Torres for the vast majority of the season would've made a big difference to Liverpool's season whether you want to recognise that or not.

[STEVIEG]

Let's hold off on any future debate so as historical facts are all that matters apparently.



In many games this season Liverpool were probably stronger without Torres as opposed to with a Torres who was gingerly nursing himself back to fitness and was nowhere near 100%.

A fully fit Torres for the vast majority of the season would've made a big difference to Liverpool's season whether you want to recognise that or not.

Okay

This is getting boring anyway



I'm all rafa'd out

[Tony Angelino]

the facts are that you made a balls of the team and thats a fact you fat spanish waiter