50 Irish-language jobs in EU bodies

[Gaelport]

More than 50 jobs have been created within the European institutions since Irish became an official working language of the EU, Fianna Fáil MEP Seán Ó Neachtáin said yesterday. After a meeting in Brussels between Irish-language organisations and EU Commi...

More... (http://www.gaelport.com/index.php?page=clipp ings&id=4587&viewby=date)

[Shaky flaky panties girl]

Disgraceful.
A language spoken by millions - Catalan - is not recognised in the EU. Yet a murdered, decaying language is.
A language whose speakers can all speak English equally well at the very least.
There is no need for Irish in the EU. It serves no purpose, except to waste money.

[jimmy magee]

Disgraceful.

There is no need for Irish in the EU. It serves no purpose, except to waste money.

Wrong. It preserves a strand of language that has been present in Europe since its early days.


Should short-term matters of money/economic efficiency take precedence over the preservation of European culture?



I think not myself. You clearly think so, so may your panties be forever flaky.

[bob]

Disgraceful.

a murdered, decaying language

There is no need for Irish in the EU. It serves no purpose, except to waste money.

You Sir / Madam are the very reason the language is dying. I sincerely hope you're not Irish, at least that would excuse such a statement somewhat

[Shaky flaky panties girl]

You Sir / Madam are the very reason the language is dying. I sincerely hope you're not Irish, at least that would excuse such a statement somewhat

I am Irish. I am in no way the reason the language is decaying.
My opinion is that it is a waste of money translating and interpreting EU documents, speeches and so on into Irish, when those who the translations are geared for can understand English perfectly.
There is no Irish MEP who can say there are mono-lingual and that Irish is their only language. Most Irish MEPs are at very best capable of an cupla focail; some others may be bilingual.
It is a waste of money and resources to translate EU documents into Irish. There are minority regional languages throughout Europe with many more speakers (some being mono-lingual) than Irish. Yet, they are not considered official languages.
There is no argument which can defend this.
That is the only opinion I put forward. You seem to have inferred much more.

[shane103]

I think that people having a negative attitude towards Irish has a huge impact on its decline. I am semi-fluent intermediate level, I would love to speak Irish more often, as this would raise my standaed , but in public day to day life in big towns this is usually impossible unless you enjoy being made feel like a leper.

Usual Responses to Speaking Irish to Stranger in a Town/City:
- Quite often: A look of sickness followed by rolling eyes, as if you just vomited on their shoes
- Most commonly: "what are you speaking, Irish for!?" in an aggressive tone of voice with frowning eye-brows.
- Laughter.
- Ignore it and answer in English. (this always happens at At the Post Office)
- and very rarely "sorry I don't speak Irish".

I think there are a lot of people like me who would like to feel that Irish is normal. But we are intimidated made to feel like freaks by the negative attitudes and responses of sceptics. What was inferred was that with your negative view of Irish as an EU language that you were also one of these people.
This may not be the case... in fact you might even be pro Irish language who thinks that the EU mone should be spent on Gaelscoilanna resources. But I think it is more probable that you are one of the people who would respond with an attitude as above, making Irish speakers feel like subhumans in which case: Congrats you are winning in making us feel awkward and helping the language to die.

[Club DP]

I like speaking Irish when/where I can so I sympathise with your views Shane103 but what Shaky is saying isn't hard to justify.

If that money was spent on promoting the language in Ireland it would be far more effective in reviving the language and "waste" is often a stick used to beat language enthusiasts with.

The example of Clare County Council spending €30,000 on translating a development plan that nobody purchased is very bad PR on the surface (it should be put in context that only 30 copies of the English version were bought) and with public service waste often top of the media agenda these stories are cannon fodder who believe Irish is dead.

There is a lack of leadership with regards to the promotion of the Irish language, certainly outside the Gaeltacht. The 20 year plan recently published (I suggest everyone interested in Irish revival reads it) is to be welcomed.

The phrase "craddle to the grave" is good to see for this reason: the focus of the Irish language movement often seems to be on Gaelscoileanna. There's a belief that if the curriculum is tweaked sufficiently gaelgóirs will emerge from the schools after the leaving.

While this has some merit (we all know the curriculum for anyone who left school before 2000 was far from sufficient) the kids/adults leaving school are not going to speak Irish naturally if its not encouraged outside school. Bilingualism has to be normalised but I admit it there is a chicken-and-egg scenario (i.e. to normalise it you have to have proficient speakers to start with but to encourage proficient speaking it has to be normal to speak it).

You're right that you can't speak Irish in a Post Office or if you try it in a shop or restaurant to an Irish person you'll be looked at like you have two heads but blaming the individual Joe Soaps you come across for their reaction is to let the language planners and promoters off the hook. Being antagonistic towards people who don’t speak it only results in a negative image.

But that malaise affects everyone. I can only speak of my experience in Cork but the biggest issue for the language here is not funding or money. It’s apathy.

It affects not just ordinary people who are disconnected from the language but people who lecture or teach it as well as those who will tell you ‘its not my job to promote the language, I just teach it’.

If you look at how the Welsh language revival has succeeded it’s because there are groups of extremely motivated individuals like Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg, the Welsh Language Group. When companies order their employees to only speak English there are huge protests so politically they have clout and more money is spent on Welsh. I’m not saying that is a justifiable method of proliferating the language but you couldn’t accuse them of apathy.

If you love speaking Irish and would like to see more people use it naturally everyday you have to ask yourself the question ‘what did I do today for the language?’. Invariably among those with an ability to speak it the answer is little or nothing.

My experience is that nearly everyone who speaks Irish has an opinion on how the language should be promoted properly but only a tiny few are actually doing anything about it or willing to put some time into it. The culture of waiting for someone else to do the promotion is another way of describing apathy.

Currently 83,000 people speak Irish every day. The target for 2030 is 250,000 which is a huge task and a language ‘Tsar’ independent of government needs to be appointed – certainly for areas outside the Gaeltacht to operate a coordinated national campaign to promote the language.

The one thing revivalists have on their side is that surveys show there is overall goodwill towards the language. So far, we have been unable to capitalise on it.

[shane103]

Níl aon dabht agam go bhíodh an airgead sin níos fearr caite ag an Rialtas ar rudaí eile don teanga, mar shampla, leabhair agus ábhair dona Gaelscoileanna.
(Bhí mé ag caint le múinteoir ó Ghaelscoil amháin agus dúirt sé go raibh an rogha leabhair agus ábhair ar bhfad níos measa na a tá ann as Béarla, agus déanann sé sin an ranga níos deachair a múineadh, tá fíor-mhíbhuntáiste ann ar aon nós). Ach, ar domhain foirfe, bheimis in ann na dhá rudaí a dhéanamh chun a áirithiú go bhfuil obair ann do duine le Gaeilge, agus beadh spreagadh ann an teanga a fhoghlaim mar ábhar gairmiúil. Ach níl domhain foirfe a tá ann agus, mar sin, tá ceart agat, caithimid a beith ag tosú le rudaí níos tábhachtaí agus práinní.

Ach ní chreidim go bhfuil "good-will" nó "toil-mhaith" ann i réaltacht. Nuair a faigheann daoine glaoigh teileafóin ón Ríonn na Gaeltachta chun suirbhé a dhéanamh, sea, dearann 54% "Yes, I woild like to support Irish as part of out herritage and cultural diversity" (as Bearla, is docha). Ach má theann tú go dtí na duine céine ar tsráid, agus dearann tú, "cá bhfuil an siopa X", bíonn an "good-will" go tobainn imithe.

Bhí mé i mo chónaí i gCorcaigh cúpla bhliana ó shin, agus caithfidh mé a rá go raibh rudaí níos fearr ann. Nuair a dúirt mé "go raibh maith agat" sna siopaí níor d'fhéach siad orm go ait go minic, agus dhá uair sa bhliain fuair mé "fáilte romhat". Ach anois tá mé ar ais i Loch Garman árais, agus tá sé uafásach ar fad. Níl an "good-will" anseo ar cur ar bith. Tá oíche na Gaeilge ar siúl ar súil uair amháin sa mhí, agus seachas sin, níl ach an Idirlinn agam.

What can I do for the Irish language every day? Well like I said, I say "Dia Dhuit" and "Go raibh maith agat" at post offices and shops and banks, and even at that microscopic level of small tokenism, I am made feel unwelcome.

Anyway, the 20 year plan is full of Spriocanna but no exact details on how to get to them, either financially, or more importantly structurally or organisationally (except in the vaguest terms.) Good news is that DCU published a review of it laying out all the questions that the strategy will have to answer, if it is not to be considered a dream-wish-list, which the draft version is. Please read the DCU review.

[SuperHans]

Níl aon dabht agam go bhíodh an airgead sin níos fearr caite ag an Rialtas ar rudaí eile don teanga, mar shampla, leabhair agus ábhair dona Gaelscoileanna.
(Bhí mé ag caint le múinteoir ó Ghaelscoil amháin agus dúirt sé go raibh an rogha leabhair agus ábhair ar bhfad níos measa na a tá ann as Béarla, agus déanann sé sin an ranga níos deachair a múineadh, tá fíor-mhíbhuntáiste ann ar aon nós). Ach, ar domhain foirfe, bheimis in ann na dhá rudaí a dhéanamh chun a áirithiú go bhfuil obair ann do duine le Gaeilge, agus beadh spreagadh ann an teanga a fhoghlaim mar ábhar gairmiúil. Ach níl domhain foirfe a tá ann agus, mar sin, tá ceart agat, caithimid a beith ag tosú le rudaí níos tábhachtaí agus práinní.

Ach ní chreidim go bhfuil "good-will" nó "toil-mhaith" ann i réaltacht. Nuair a faigheann daoine glaoigh teileafóin ón Ríonn na Gaeltachta chun suirbhé a dhéanamh, sea, dearann 54% "Yes, I woild like to support Irish as part of out herritage and cultural diversity" (as Bearla, is docha). Ach má theann tú go dtí na duine céine ar tsráid, agus dearann tú, "cá bhfuil an siopa X", bíonn an "good-will" go tobainn imithe.

Bhí mé i mo chónaí i gCorcaigh cúpla bhliana ó shin, agus caithfidh mé a rá go raibh rudaí níos fearr ann. Nuair a dúirt mé "go raibh maith agat" sna siopaí níor d'fhéach siad orm go ait go minic, agus dhá uair sa bhliain fuair mé "fáilte romhat". Ach anois tá mé ar ais i Loch Garman árais, agus tá sé uafásach ar fad. Níl an "good-will" anseo ar cur ar bith. Tá oíche na Gaeilge ar siúl ar súil uair amháin sa mhí, agus seachas sin, níl ach an Idirlinn agam.

What can I do for the Irish language every day? Well like I said, I say "Dia Dhuit" and "Go raibh maith agat" at post offices and shops and banks, and even at that microscopic level of small tokenism, I am made feel unwelcome.

Anyway, the 20 year plan is full of Spriocanna but no exact details on how to get to them, either financially, or more importantly structurally or organisationally (except in the vaguest terms.) Good news is that DCU published a review of it laying out all the questions that the strategy will have to answer, if it is not to be considered a dream-wish-list, which the draft version is. Please read the DCU review.

That's the first problem. I don't want to go around saying "god be with you" to people instead of "hello".

The language should not be subsidised. Sink or swim, if people want it, let them speak it. Enforcing these practices of having documents in both languages is wasteful.

[Agus]

That's the first problem. I don't want to go around saying "god be with you" to people instead of "hello".



Well simply use "haigh" or "hóigh" then. :)

[Cliff Barnes]

Ws it in Clare County Council where they spent thousands translating the County Development Plan into Irish in case anyone asked for a copy of it As Gaeilge ?

No one requested an Irish language version.

[Backinblack]

The way Irish is forced fed to kids in school is the problem. Not enough is done to present Irish in the context in which it exists, i.e the native speaking areas.
The teaching of Irish needs to change. It needs to center around the gaeltacht and have local native speakers involved. I'm thinking a type of instruction that focuses more on the the telling of our myths and legends through Irish rather than the conjugation of fucking verbs. I'm thinking about busing kids in and out of the Gaeltacht once a month, for day trips in which they are immersed in the culture. Activities like Ceili's, visits to a stone circle or iron age ringforts, plays depicting our mythology, a meeting with a bean an Ti in a traditional farmhouse, these are the things that need to happen to make Irish more attractive and interesting to young people. Besides it would keep a lot of people employed and help sustain the Gaeltacht as well.
More action is needed by everyone if we are to preserve the ideals of the Gaelic revival.

[Backinblack]

The fact that this thread is dying says a lot about our country...

[Club DP]

Tóg go bog é a chara.

the fact that the DCU report is 38 pages says a lot about why I haven't replied yet.

[quote][quote]Good news is that DCU published a review of it laying out all the questions that the strategy will have to answer, if it is not to be considered a dream-wish-list, which the draft version is. Please read the DCU review.[quote]

Seo dhuit an nasc má bhíonn suim agat. Is tuairc as béarla é...
http://www.pobail.ie/en/IrishLanguage/file,10104,en.pdf

[Agus]

a murdered, decaying language

What does "murdered" mean? This would appear to suggest that it is dead, but a dead language is one no longer spoken or learnt as a native tongue - obviously Irish doesn't meet those criteria. So what does "murdered" actually mean?



A language whose speakers can all speak English equally well at the very least.


Just as a point of fact, some people are more fluent in Irish than English. A fairly small minority of the national population, but they do exist.

[Goldstein]

...a dead language is one no longer spoken or learnt as a native tongue - obviously Irish doesn't meet those criteria.....

We don't have much choice do we?

[Beaty]

...to me...a waste...but a unfortunately a necessary waste. Our native tongue IS Oirish..

if younwant to axe 50 jobs start in FAS...

B

[Agus]

We don't have much choice do we?

"native tongue" in that context means as a first language. If you're referring to learning a second language at school that's a different matter: you could have everyone in the world learning Latin at school but that wouldn't make it a living language.

[Darren J. Prior]

There is a lack of leadership with regards to the promotion of the Irish language, certainly outside the Gaeltacht. The 20 year plan recently published (I suggest everyone interested in Irish revival reads it) is to be welcomed.

...

But that malaise affects everyone. I can only speak of my experience in Cork but the biggest issue for the language here is not funding or money. It’s apathy.

It affects not just ordinary people who are disconnected from the language but people who lecture or teach it as well as those who will tell you ‘its not my job to promote the language, I just teach it’.

If you look at how the Welsh language revival has succeeded it’s because there are groups of extremely motivated individuals like Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg, the Welsh Language Group. When companies order their employees to only speak English there are huge protests so politically they have clout and more money is spent on Welsh. I’m not saying that is a justifiable method of proliferating the language but you couldn’t accuse them of apathy.

If you love speaking Irish and would like to see more people use it naturally everyday you have to ask yourself the question ‘what did I do today for the language?’. Invariably among those with an ability to speak it the answer is little or nothing.

My experience is that nearly everyone who speaks Irish has an opinion on how the language should be promoted properly but only a tiny few are actually doing anything about it or willing to put some time into it. The culture of waiting for someone else to do the promotion is another way of describing apathy.


Are you a member of an Irish language organisation?

[if it ain't fine]

cé mhéad a dhéanamh ar na poist san EU a íoc?