BOD stays captain - my 1st big disagreement with Kidney

[cantankerous bastard]

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/rugby/mhsngbeysnql/

I just cannot agree with this. O'Connell has been a fantastic leader this season. He now is to Munster what Martin Johnson was to Leicester, or Dallaglio to Wasps.

Some said he was like Johnson when he first came on the scene, I think you've got to add the experience to that to make it true. But he has that now and he is the right man to captain ireland.

Im not a stereotypical BOD hater, I think he's a great player and he threw himself at the Wasps match for Leinster. The problem is the team around him didnt rise to it. He just doesnt command respect and demand more from the team in the way O'Connell does.

I dont understand how the argument could be made to keep him. He needs that pressure off him so he can just focus on being a great player for the twilight of his career.

I'm bloody disappointed about this, strike one deccie.

[Echoboy]

Its a tough decision to make though, and no matter what your reason for dropping him it will be interpreted about 12 different ways if you do drop the guy, you cant win.

[cantankerous bastard]

Its a tough decision to make though, and no matter what you mean but changing it will be interpreted about 12 different ways if you do drop the guy.
Era ya but fuck it like, Irish rugby needs to change, to bloody grow.

We didnt get rid of eddie for more of the same. O'Connell is the better leader, fuck the politics put the best man in the job.

[Echoboy]

For the record i completely agree with ya, but it is a divisive issue is all i'm saying.

[cantankerous bastard]

For the record i completely agree with ya, but it is a divisive issue is all i'm saying.
I know ya.

The dubs would be squealing Munster bias if it had gone the other way.

Does my nut though, its clear all of the players have a healthy fear of having to face o'connell if they make a mistake in training, never mind in a game. I just dont think O'Driscoll commands that same respect and demand for their best.

[raZor]

This was the time to make that change, new regime in the first "proper" competitive matches and all that.

[cantankerous bastard]

This was the time to make that change, new regime in the first "proper" competitive matches and all that.
Im fuming to be honest. I'm trying to think it through, I mean maybe they are seeing things we cant see on the training ground, but on the surface and looking at the provinces there is simply no question who the more effective captain is right now.

POC has just lifted munster from a dire run of games to victory in wales over the magners league leaders, a 6 try thumping of the best defensive team in the GP, and a 5 try thumping of an iffy french side at home.

Leinster have limped through fixtures they should have won comfortably.

[cantankerous bastard]

this is typical fucking dublin politics affecting making the right decisions for the irish team.

Its a new management structure, a new captain would have been the right move. BOD needs to focus on his game, not on his leadership ability.

[Eoin]

Yeah, its a bad decision, especiall since BOD isn't even Leinster captain this year. O'Connell is still a natural leader on the pitch so hopefully he'll have a bit of influence.

[cit_gym_rat]

O'Connell doesnt need to be called captain he is ireland captain, BOD i think is a pr move with regards to the lenister boys who are still a bit bitter with kidney

[cantankerous bastard]

O'Connell doesnt need to be called captain he is ireland captain, BOD i think is a pr move with regards to the lenister boys who are still a bit bitter with kidney
Fuck them, their province is underperforming.

In all fairness like we need to get away from this namby pamby pandering in Irish rugby. Its so bloody political.

Pick the best 15 Irish players to play. Pick the best leader as captain.

If that means there's no one from Ulster in the team some years?
Tough shit you're not playing well enough.

If that means there are less munster/leinster players in the team because Geordan Murphy/Reddan and the exiles are in?
Touch shit you're not playing well enough.

If that means the captain and core of the side is from Munster some years as they are on fire as the top province?
Tough shit the rest arent playing well enough.

The most successful teams in rugby are those that put the best 15 men on the field. Every man should fear that he is one crap performance away from a fight for his jersey. That is the atmosphere at the kiwis, that is the atmosphere in munster. See Antony Foley dropped from the 22 in the heineken cup final, his last potential munster game, for example. It was tough but no man or ego is bigger than the needs of the team.

[Barry K O Bama]

Fuck them, their province is underperforming.

In all fairness like we need to get away from this namby pamby pandering in Irish rugby. Its so bloody political.

Pick the best 15 Irish players to play. Pick the best leader as captain.

If that means there's no one from Ulster in the team some years?
Tough shit you're not playing well enough.

If that means there are less munster/leinster players in the team because Geordan Murphy/Reddan and the exiles are in?
Touch shit you're not playing well enough.

If that means the captain and core of the side is from Munster some years as they are on fire as the top province?
Tough shit the rest arent playing well enough.

The most successful teams in rugby are those that put the best 15 men on the field. Every man should fear that he is one crap performance away from a fight for his jersey. That is the atmosphere at the kiwis, that is the atmosphere in munster. See Antony Foley dropped from the 22 in the heineken cup final, his last potential munster game, for example. It was tough but no man or ego is bigger than the needs of the team.


I agree with evrything U've posted CB but I wonder how much of a say do the D4 Blazers have in this kind of decision ?

[Lapsy Pa]

TBH I don't think it makes a huge difference. O'Connell can't possibly play any better than he is presently and it might give O'Driscoll a lift from his current below par performances.

If I was drickers I'd be more worried about facing O'Connell in the HC semis, rather than him taking the captains armband. The only major decisions to be made are kicking for goal/touch and getting lectures from the ref about his packs underhanded tactics

[Lamps]

Couldn't give a shit about the jocks at present, but I will tell ye this, Paul O Connell isn't a man to do it when the chips are down, he underperforms for Arland, like most Munstershire players. BOD on the other hand, even when half fit, tends to deliver

[Berbs]

I'm not sure that current form for the provinces is what you should base the captaincy on. O' Driscoll doesn't seem like the most inspiring man when he speaks but on the field in the WC he was the only player who impressed. How could POC have any authority with the players when he has performed badly in Ireland's big games himself?

Good decision from Kidney.

[Lamps]

How could POC have any authority with the players when he has performed badly in Ireland's big games himself?

Good decision from Kidney.

Exactly, Paul O Connell has come up short more often than not in the biggest games. He doesn't have BOD's mentality IMO.

But shure BOD is from D4 so he must be a ladyboy:rolleyes:

[cantankerous bastard]

I'm not sure that current form for the provinces is what you should base the captaincy on. O' Driscoll doesn't seem like the most inspiring man when he speaks but on the field in the WC he was the only player who impressed. How could POC have any authority with the players when he has performed badly in Ireland's big games himself?

Good decision from Kidney.
Im not saying POC should have been captain at the world cup. Im saying he should be captain now because he has progressed a lot since then, led munster to a second heineken cup and has contributed to them at the midpoint of the season being top of the magners league and 2nd seed in the QF of the heineken cup.

[Arcadia]

BOD had better step it up a gear if he wants to retain his place never mind worrying about the Captaincy + the Lions tour coming up.

The Leinster backline have forgotten where the try line is and BOD is now kicking rather than running.

POC is the pack leader anyway

[cantankerous bastard]

I've calmed down a bit on it now I've had some time with it....he has one chance this 6N to keep that captaincy, he'd better come out like a ball of thunder and fire up that team for the france game.

It would be an incredible start to the campaign if we were to do one on France. Conversely it would completely crap on the positive energy of a new regime if we fall at this first hurdle and are then looking at a tough 6N that we can only do as well as we've done in last few years i.e. no grand slam up for grabs.

Could easily happen, I'm pretty nervous about this game.

[Lee Bushwacker]

Era ya but fuck it like, Irish rugby needs to change, to bloody grow.

We didnt get rid of eddie for more of the same. O'Connell is the better leader, fuck the politics put the best man in the job.

:cool:
I totally agree with you cb but Deccie would most probably be accused of a pro-Munster bais by the media in general. O Driscoll does need to have the pressure taken off him and concentrate on his own game. POC as we all know is going to lead the pack anyway.
Deccie has probably not changed the captain because it's his first season in charge and in the event of Ireland having a mixed season POC being made captain would certainly be cited by the "Leinster goys" in the media.

[Lee Bushwacker]

fuck them, their province is underperforming.

In all fairness like we need to get away from this namby pamby pandering in irish rugby. Its so bloody political.

Pick the best 15 irish players to play. Pick the best leader as captain.

If that means there's no one from ulster in the team some years?
Tough shit you're not playing well enough.

If that means there are less munster/leinster players in the team because geordan murphy/reddan and the exiles are in?
Touch shit you're not playing well enough.

If that means the captain and core of the side is from munster some years as they are on fire as the top province?
Tough shit the rest arent playing well enough.

The most successful teams in rugby are those that put the best 15 men on the field. Every man should fear that he is one crap performance away from a fight for his jersey. That is the atmosphere at the kiwis, that is the atmosphere in munster. See antony foley dropped from the 22 in the heineken cup final, his last potential munster game, for example. It was tough but no man or ego is bigger than the needs of the team.

:d :d :d

[OC]

dont think it really matters who is captain,
sometimes inspirational players can be bad decision makers,
I'm thinking woody v OZ in WC 03
personally I prefer backs to be captains, POC is a leader either way,
I know it's spin, but I would also buy into that 'you need leaders everywhere' thing too

[cantankerous bastard]

Donal Lenihan has my back on this one...
http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/?c=rugby&e=examiner&jp=idmhaucwoj

[Proinsias]

dont think it really matters who is captain,
sometimes inspirational players can be bad decision makers,
I'm thinking woody v OZ in WC 03
personally I prefer backs to be captains, POC is a leader either way,
I know it's spin, but I would also buy into that 'you need leaders everywhere' thing too

It's vital to have a good captain in rugby. There's a lot of key decisions that need to be taken on the pitch, not by the coach. The captain should be there every time, setting the tone.

The captain will decide whether the team plays it more conservative with the penalties or tap and go, to speed up the whole game. He'll decide whether or not a pattern of play by the forwards or the backs is the right one and change it if required.
He also has to inspire. While it's nice to have leaders all over the field, a great captain can turn a team's mentality around, when stuck defending on their 5 metre line to aggressive attack the ball in defense and move play back up the pitch. A mediocre captain will just leave the other players at it. Not what's needed in those situations.

Personally, I think that the captain should be from 4-10 as those are the players setting the tone for the game. O'Connell will be pack leader, no doubt about that, ROG is almost certainly going to be calling back moves, so really, BOD's main input is on tactical decsions. Past history has shown that Irish teams have made some blunders in this regard but our record, generally, isn't too bad.

There's a lot of people who say that BOD doesn't take the pressure of being captain well, that he should just concentrate on his own game and give someone else the captaincy. I'd be in agreement with that myself.

[a honest mistake]

Fuck them, their province is underperforming.

In all fairness like we need to get away from this namby pamby pandering in Irish rugby. Its so bloody political.

Pick the best 15 Irish players to play. Pick the best leader as captain.

If that means there's no one from Ulster in the team some years?
Tough shit you're not playing well enough.

If that means there are less munster/leinster players in the team because Geordan Murphy/Reddan and the exiles are in?
Touch shit you're not playing well enough.

If that means the captain and core of the side is from Munster some years as they are on fire as the top province?
Tough shit the rest arent playing well enough.

The most successful teams in rugby are those that put the best 15 men on the field. Every man should fear that he is one crap performance away from a fight for his jersey. That is the atmosphere at the kiwis, that is the atmosphere in munster. See Antony Foley dropped from the 22 in the heineken cup final, his last potential munster game, for example. It was tough but no man or ego is bigger than the needs of the team.

Fully agree

BUT

i think Ireland should bring in (i hate to say this) Ian Humphrys for this years 6 nations as a back up to OGara as if he is injured then Ireland are generally Fucked, plus he is nearing the end of his long and winding road, and the only sign of a serious No 10 potential is comming from the north. Also Ulster have a young lad Mark McCrea who plays on the wing and he will be a name for the future.

[POL]

"DA FEAR A GAWD" has always bottled it in big games for Arland, BOD is the man for the job

[Coogee]

Couldn't give a shit about the jocks at present, but I will tell ye this, Paul O Connell isn't a man to do it when the chips are down, he underperforms for Arland, like most Munstershire players. BOD on the other hand, even when half fit, tends to deliver

like he has been delivering all season is it?

[devvy devverson]

i certainly dont agree with bod being captain. in my opinion it should be pauly.

it seems there is a clown in our midst...... some spa thinks o'driscoll shone brightly in the world cup????????!!!!!!!!! ! he, along with plenty others, was a DISGRACE. ... what cup were you watching??????

someone else reckons he still churns a display out when hes only half fit??????? eat shit and die......

in the defense of kidney.......... let the 6 nations start and lets see how he can work the team.... it wasnt too long ago we sang his praises so lets give him the chance he deserves. sling yer hooks if things go bad but at least let him try and do it his own way.

[cantankerous bastard]

Fully agree

BUT

i think Ireland should bring in (i hate to say this) Ian Humphrys for this years 6 nations as a back up to OGara as if he is injured then Ireland are generally Fucked, plus he is nearing the end of his long and winding road, and the only sign of a serious No 10 potential is comming from the north. Also Ulster have a young lad Mark McCrea who plays on the wing and he will be a name for the future.
I agree, dont think Sexton was the right call and I think its harsh enough on baby humphs.

Neither sexton nor humphs are ready to fill o'garas boots, but we've got to start trying to bleed both in and see who rises to it.

[Lamps]

like he has been delivering all season is it?

For who?

[Echoboy]

it seems there is a clown in our midst...... some spa thinks o'driscoll shone brightly in the world cup????????!!!!!!!!! ! he, along with plenty others, was a DISGRACE. ... what cup were you watching??????

someone else reckons he still churns a display out when hes only half fit??????? eat shit and die......

The bait is there to be bitten ;)

[Berbs]

i certainly dont agree with bod being captain. in my opinion it should be pauly.

it seems there is a clown in our midst...... some spa thinks o'driscoll shone brightly in the world cup????????!!!!!!!!! ! he, along with plenty others, was a DISGRACE. ... what cup were you watching??????

someone else reckons he still churns a display out when hes only half fit??????? eat shit and die......

in the defense of kidney.......... let the 6 nations start and lets see how he can work the team.... it wasnt too long ago we sang his praises so lets give him the chance he deserves. sling yer hooks if things go bad but at least let him try and do it his own way.

Am I allowed to say 'Rattled'?

[Proinsias]

Interesting article here, gives a little bit of insight into Kidney's way of thinking and a look at what the Irish squad's fitness used to be like:



By Hugh Farrelly

Friday January 30 2009

LUNCHTIME in a vibrant café in the University of Ulster in Jordanstown and Gary Longwell holds up a giant hand for inspection.

Two fingers are entirely normal but his little finger and ring finger are twisted into talon-like shapes, never to be straightened.

"That's the one I broke before the Wales game," says the former Ulster and Ireland second row, pointing to a 'little' finger the size of a (twisted) Cadbury's Flake, "the other one was strapped to the little one and went the same. That's as straight as it goes now."

If Longwell had got his way, this particular little piggy would have gone under the knife . . .

It's the Tuesday before Ireland's foot-and-mouth delayed trip to Cardiff and Longwell is pumped. Ireland were woeful against Scotland three weeks previously (a defeat that would ultimately deny them a Grand Slam) and coach Warren Gatland has rung the changes -- including Longwell and Mick Galwey for Jeremy Davidson and Malcolm O'Kelly in the second row.

It's only a training run out against the reserves but 'Boat' is throwing his 6' 7", 18-stone frame at everything that comes his way, a physical expression of his excitement at the prospect of starting his first Six Nations match. Prop Reggie Corrigan veers into his target zone and Longwell hits him hard.

"My finger got caught in Reggie's tackle suit and there was a crack but I thought it would be alright," he recalls. "It was a bit sore afterwards and the doctor sent me to a hospital just outside Dublin for an X-ray. The guy came in and said there was a crack in it.

"I said, 'sure I can still play' but then he squeezed it and it was agony and he said no way was I playing. So I asked him to amputate it but he said he wouldn't do it. You hear people saying they would cut off their right arm to play for Ireland and that's the way I felt. It was the first thing my wife said when I told her I couldn't play, 'would you not just cut it off Gary?'.

"I'd grown up with a guy called Joe Callaghan who was the best player of our generation, and he'd lost his finger in a farming accident, he had a wee stump so I didn't see it as a big deal.

"Ach, I don't want to make too much of it, it was just a thing that happened at the time. Mal came back in and did a magnificent job. They beat Wales and went on to deny England a Grand Slam, but I wasn't part of it."

To most of us, amputation for a cap would be a barter too far but the Longwell's desire was driven by years of frustration and a determination to avail of every international opportunity that came his way ...

Brendan Fanning prints a story in the Sunday Independent that rips through the Ireland squad. Fanning has got hold of a report by national fitness adviser Craig White which provides damning evidence on the readiness of Ireland's elite players for the upcoming World Cup.

Longwell's report card was particularly blunt.

"Gary Longwell -- In the comfort zone, not up to international standard."

The 28-year-old had been on the international radar since his Ulster debut in the early 1990s and had made his way steadily up the representative ladder before becoming rooted to the Ireland 'A' rung.

White's assessment was brutal confirmation of this fact and, while Longwell initially shied away from the reality of his situation, ultimately, it saved his career.

"When the report came out, I was raging ... frustrated, depressed. But once the anger had died down, I was able to stand back and say it was a fair assessment. I didn't deserve a cap, I wasn't putting the work in.

"From that point on, I really worked my guts off. I didn't drink any more after that and still don't. I used to love a drink but I didn't want to look back and think would I have been a better player if I hadn't been drinking and socialising. I didn't want regrets."

Having helped Ulster claim the European Cup -- 10 years ago this week -- Longwell's new work ethic was noticed and when Irish rugby gradually turned the corner after the horror of Lens at the World Cup he forced his way into the mix.

His first cap arrived off the bench against Japan in 2000, his second saw him start against South Africa in Lansdowne Road and he went on to amass 26 in all. It took the emergence of Donncha O'Callaghan and Paul O'Connell to move him aside, his last international coming against Italy in 2004. It may have been late starting, but Longwell is proud of his Ireland record.

"That report turned my career around."

The morning of Ireland's Grand Slam showdown with England at Lansdowne Road and the nerves are getting to him ... badly. Longwell is 32 and vastly experienced, but this game is so huge that he can't get his customary focus. Ireland assistant coach Declan Kidney notices something is up.

"He took me for a walk in the car park and just started talking to me, calming me down. He gave a note -- Nelson's Mandela's inaugural speech -- and it was brilliant. Whenever you'd have that little bit of self-doubt, Declan could spot it and get inside your head and you'd feel fantastic after."

That was the day England captain Martin Johnson had his famous carpet stand-off and Ireland, despite enjoying copious amounts of possession, were blown away by the world's best team, the team that would annex the World Cup later that year.

Kidney is now plotting Ireland's latest Grand Slam assault and Longwell has no doubt the team has the right man in charge.

"Declan has had a big influence on my career in terms of Ireland 'A' and when he was assistant with Ireland. He always does and says the right thing. He made those players in Munster believe in the jersey and he'll do the same with Ireland," he says.

"I'd love Declan to bring home the Grand Slam, whether or not this year is too soon we'll see, but he has that Midas touch and I'd back him to do it at some stage. He is a fantastic motivator. I'd have gone through a wall for Declan Kidney."

A group of young men in rugby gear stop for a chat with their Academy manager. Longwell may be considerably older than these future Ulster players but he only retired from competitive rugby in 2005 and is well versed in camp camaraderie, with the youngsters visibly relaxed in the company of their boss.

He combines his Ulster duties with his role as high performance manager for rugby under the control of the Sports Institute of Northern Ireland in their excellent facilities at Jordanstown.

A vast, synthetically-grassed indoor arena has an array of cameras to monitor and analyse every drill, more cameras in the huge weights room and a fitness centre with the best technology available to chart every aspect of a player's physical well-being.

This is a hugely impressive facility and one the Ireland squad could, and should, avail of with Kidney having already travelled up on a reconnaissance mission. It is tangible evidence of Ulster's upward graph, which is sure to have positive benefits for the national team with Academy graduates Darren Cave, Ryan Caldwell and David Pollock already holding their hands up and others, such as Ian Whitten and Willie Faloon, eagerly following their trail.

Longwell, who has a degree in applied maths from Queens, reports to former team-mate Allan Clarke along with the Academy managers from the other provinces and has tremendous confidence in the future of Ulster and Irish rugby.

Universally popular, the genial giant continues to be a wonderful servant to Irish rugby and is as enthused by the game as he was when he was lining out for Ulster and Ireland. However, despite acknowledging he is still at his "fighting weight" of 18 stone, Longwell finds the prospect of lining out in the following day's charity game pitting Ulster's 1999 team against an invitational XV a daunting one.

"It's supposed to be a bit of throw around but I know guys will be tearing into each other and I've a bit of a cold. Ach, we'll just get on with it."

- Hugh Farrelly

[AGORDEIRE]

If Ian Dowling doesnt get game time we will know tat the D4 fairy grigade have too much sway.

He has delivered for Munster now for far too long to be ignored again this season.

[Eoin]

If Ian Dowling doesnt get game time we will know tat the D4 fairy grigade have too much sway.

He has delivered for Munster now for far too long to be ignored again this season.

He's better than Bowe, thats for sure, but its a big step up to international.

[Coogee]

For who?

for nobody...was awful in the autumn internationals and has been solid in defence for leinster but his attacking game has gone....the man hobbles off the field holding his hamstring in every seond game he plays and will never be the player he was from 2001-2006...

[Coogee]

If Ian Dowling doesnt get game time we will know tat the D4 fairy grigade have too much sway.

He has delivered for Munster now for far too long to be ignored again this season.

dowling is nowhere near international standard..,,he does the hard graft for munster but is not a good enough finisher for international rugby...the man scores an average of 4-5 tries a season...just not good enough...he is currently behind Bowe,Trimble,Horgan, Fitz,Kearney,Murphy, BOD,Darcy, Earls, Cave in the irish set up

[Rebelred]

i certainly dont agree with bod being captain. in my opinion it should be pauly.

it seems there is a clown in our midst...... some spa thinks o'driscoll shone brightly in the world cup????????!!!!!!!!! ! he, along with plenty others, was a DISGRACE. ... what cup were you watching??????

someone else reckons he still churns a display out when hes only half fit??????? eat shit and die......

in the defense of kidney.......... let the 6 nations start and lets see how he can work the team.... it wasnt too long ago we sang his praises so lets give him the chance he deserves. sling yer hooks if things go bad but at least let him try and do it his own way.

:lol:

[ProfessorPwn]

I just dont think O'Driscoll commands that same respect and demand for their best.

Jesus Christ

[mirps]

He's better than Bowe, thats for sure, but its a big step up to international.

Ouch!

[Rebelred]

Jesus Christ

this thread also makes bad reading for Eoin-Y's stance in the other thread

[POL]

retirement beckons for eoin_y

[ProfessorPwn]

If Ian Dowling doesnt get game time we will know tat the D4 fairy grigade have too much sway.

He has delivered for Munster now for far too long to be ignored again this season.

:lol!:

[Eoin]

Ouch!

I'll hold my hands up on that one, Bowe has improved ten-fold since moving to the ospreys.

[ProfessorPwn]

He's(dowling) better than Bowe, thats for sure, but its a big step up to international.

Oh good god

[Eoin]

Oh good god

Everyone makes mistake Pwn-y, find me anyone who said Bowe was an international-class winger before last season.

[ProfessorPwn]

What a thread. Worth reading from start to finish. I notice only a few posters stood shoulder to shoulder with BOD

[The Black Knight]

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/rugby/mhsngbeysnql/

I just cannot agree with this. O'Connell has been a fantastic leader this season. He now is to Munster what Martin Johnson was to Leicester, or Dallaglio to Wasps.

Some said he was like Johnson when he first came on the scene, I think you've got to add the experience to that to make it true. But he has that now and he is the right man to captain ireland.

Im not a stereotypical BOD hater, I think he's a great player and he threw himself at the Wasps match for Leinster. The problem is the team around him didnt rise to it. He just doesnt command respect and demand more from the team in the way O'Connell does.

I dont understand how the argument could be made to keep him. He needs that pressure off him so he can just focus on being a great player for the twilight of his career.

I'm bloody disappointed about this, strike one deccie.

I'm sorry, but you're talking through your hole with that statement.

[ProfessorPwn]

I'm sorry, but you're talking through your hole with that statement.

I felt sorry for BOD in the summer having to stand up to Matfield on his own and O'Connell hiding behind the curtains.

Laurence Dallaglio said he ranks BOD alongside Johnno as the greatest warrior he's known. Nuff said. Lacking respect indeed.

[Eoin]

In retrospect, I think you can safely say that it was 100% Eddie O'Sullivan that the players didn't have faith in, and nothing to do with BOD.

His new lease of life under Kidney proves that IMO.