Hiddink hits the nail on the head.

[ANVIL]

Highly-respected international coach Guus Hiddink has claimed
Cristiano Ronaldo's World Footballer of the Year award
had more to do with his looks and hairstyle than the goals and talent that helped United to the Premier League and Champions League double last season - and has kept them in the hunt for four trophies this campaign.

'Cristiano Ronaldo is a good-looking footballer, he looks fit and, oh yes, his hair is always in place,' said Hiddink, currently coach of Russia. 'But him winning the award is too much about glamour.'

Hiddink insisted that Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard had a greater claim to being named the best player on the planet.

Gerrard came only 10th in last month's FIFA poll for world player of the year. Portugal's Ronaldo swept to victory, with Barcelona's Lionel Messi second and Fernando Torres, of Liverpool, third.
Coach of Russia, Guus Hiddink

" I very much preferred Gerrard,' said Hiddink. 'He has superb technical and tactical qualities and I admire his spirit and attitude on the pitch.

'It has everything to do with his passion for the game and my passion for football.

'He is a player who fans can identify themselves with and a man who carries the love for his club on his club badge.

'There is not another player in the world who combines all those qualities. He is the type of player who appeals so much more to me than Cristiano Ronaldo.

'Of course, Ronaldo entertains the crowds and has great skills. But it is too much glamour and show. Gerrard, Barcelona's Xavi and Messi are not as much focused on themselves. They focus on the team.'

[blackie]

must be looking for thr 'pool job when benitez gets the shove

[RonnyB]

Whatever about his Ronaldo argument when he mentions Gerrard he just shoots himself in the foot really.

[Teknique]

must be looking for thr 'pool job when benitez gets the shove

happy days.....

[SPOGGEM]

I agree with his argument totally.

Ronaldo has NO DEFENSIVE QUALITIES whatsoever, surely the Worlds greatest player should have an all round game. Ronaldo is one of the most skillfill players in the world and therefore would have a claim in a "Worlds most skillfull player poll".

IMO however he is not the worlds greatest player.....far from it.

[ANVIL]

I agree with his argument totally.

Ronaldo has NO DEFENSIVE QUALITIES whatsoever, surely the Worlds greatest player should have an all round game. Ronaldo is one of the most skillfill players in the world and therefore would have a claim in a "Worlds most skillfull player poll".

IMO however he is not the worlds greatest player.....far from it.

I agree but standby for Ronaldo apologists such as StevieG to come to his defence with a whine like a car with a loose fan-belt.

[SPOGGEM]

Ronaldo = Money for united, UEFFA and FIFA.... simple.

I just dont rate his allround game at all. Tevez works his bollox off when he palys as does Rooney but the attitude is Ronaldo isnt that kind of player....BULLSHIT. He should be the one bustin his ass every week to justify his massive salary and profile.

Look at the Torres, his workrate has been far superior to Ronaldo anytime I've seen him play.

People can big Ronaldo up and support him all they want but it cant be argued that he's a Primmadonna (sp!) and at times is disgusting to watch with his lazy attitude on the pitch.

I know Keane has stated that he was impressed by Ronaldo's commitment in Training at united but I just dont see that on the pitch.

[KolaKubes]

Running around like a demented loon does not make you a world class footballer.

Tevez isn't a patch on the other main Utd forwards.

42 goals in a season while winning a double makes you world player of the year. Like it or not.

[KD Langer]

I agree with his argument totally.

Ronaldo has NO DEFENSIVE QUALITIES whatsoever, surely the Worlds greatest player should have an all round game. Ronaldo is one of the most skillfill players in the world and therefore would have a claim in a "Worlds most skillfull player poll".

IMO however he is not the worlds greatest player.....far from it.

yeah, because plyers like zidane and maradona were well known for their defensive qualities:rolleyes:

[STEVIEG]

Ronaldo = Money for united, UEFFA and FIFA.... simple.

I just dont rate his allround game at all. Tevez works his bollox off when he palys as does Rooney but the attitude is Ronaldo isnt that kind of player....BULLSHIT. He should be the one bustin his ass every week to justify his massive salary and profile.

Look at the Torres, his workrate has been far superior to Ronaldo anytime I've seen him play.

People can big Ronaldo up and support him all they want but it cant be argued that he's a Primmadonna (sp!) and at times is disgusting to watch with his lazy attitude on the pitch.

I know Keane has stated that he was impressed by Ronaldo's commitment in Training at united but I just dont see that on the pitch.

Take a deep breath

and google some stats from 2008 and check out what the likes of Gerrard and Torres have actually done compared to Ronaldo

Hiddink was obviously drunk at the time......

Saw this this morning and laughed my hole off!

[mr.selfDestruct]

Ronaldo deserves praise for his contribution to Utd last season. He scored so many match winning goals and was impressive going forward in general. As a Utd fan I still don't think he should have won FIFA world player of the year. Giving that award to someone who cheats so much sends out the wrong message.

[SPOGGEM]

yeah, because plyers like zidane and maradona were well known for their defensive qualities:rolleyes:

Both of Zidane and Maradona worked alot harder than Christiano Ronaldo does for Utd. Neither were workhorses but far better than Ronaldo in that regard....which says alot.

Are we to take it so that you dont see a difference between the worlds greatest player and the worlds most skillfull player?

Do you rate natural ability with the ball higher than workrate and attitude combined with a high level of ability? IMO Gerrard fits the bill of the latter as do Messi, Torres, Shearer (in his prime), Hughes etc etc. If you do thats cool wit me.

He may well work hard off the field but it looks to me like on the field Ronaldo wants everything done for him and he'll take all the glory, if thats the way you like your footballers....fair enough.... I disagree.

[SPOGGEM]

Take a deep breath

and google some stats from 2008 and check out what the likes of Gerrard and Torres have actually done compared to Ronaldo

Hiddink was obviously drunk at the time......

Saw this this morning and laughed my hole off!

Stevie you're so blinkered by all things Man Yoo that Ronaldo could piss in your pocket and tell you it was rainin and you'd say thanks for the weather report.

Ronaldo scored a shit load of goals last year and won the double with Utd.

I thought Vidic was the best palyer I saw last year bar none....CLASS. If you believe Ronaldo is the Worlds greatest player dive on lad I'm not tryin to change your mind....I think he's overrated.

[STEVIEG]

Stevie you're so blinkered by all things Man Yoo that Ronaldo could piss in your pocket and tell you it was rainin and you'd say thanks for the weather report.

Ronaldo scored a shit load of goals last year and won the double with Utd.

I thought Vidic was the best palyer I saw last year bar none....CLASS. If you believe Ronaldo is the Worlds greatest player dive on lad I'm not tryin to change your mind....I think he's overrated.

Vidic didn't even have as good a season last year as Rio

He is Uniteds best player this season IMO but what fuckwits like Hiddink don't seem to realise is what this award is for



Ronaldo had an amazing year and only the "truly blinkered" fail to realise it

We need to get some quality control into this forum there is some shocking posting lately (go back and look at the thosuands of threads on this if you really want my opinions, and by the way, the fact that Ronaldo has been under par THIS season is irrelavant too)

Hard-work = 42 goals and winning nearly everything on offer

[SPOGGEM]

Vidic didn't even have as good a season last year as Rio

He is Uniteds best player this season IMO but what fuckwits like Hiddink don't seem to realise is what this award is for



Ronaldo had an amazing year and only the "truly blinkered" fail to realise it

We need to get some quality control into this forum there is some shocking posting lately (go back and look at the thosuands of threads on this if you really want my opinions, and by the way, the fact that Ronaldo has been under par THIS season is irrelavant too)

Hard-work = 42 goals and winning nearly everything on offer

I didnt mention Ronaldo this season.

Get on to admin about the quality control Stevie....FFS, land a small bit lad with yer fuckin quality control.

I dont rate Ronaldo as highly as you SIMPLE.

Goals are piss easy to talk about, and where did I say that Ronaldo didnt have an amzing year....?....nowhere because he did have an amazing year doesn't make me think he's an amazing player though.

[STEVIEG]

I didnt mention Ronaldo this season.

Get on to admin about the quality control Stevie....FFS, land a small bit lad with yer fuckin quality control.

I dont rate Ronaldo as highly as you SIMPLE.

Goals are piss easy to talk about, and where did I say that Ronaldo didnt have an amzing year....?....nowhere because he did have an amazing year doesn't make me think he's an amazing player though.

Who was better than him?

Only one player comes close, and Ronaldo deserved his award ahead of the guy who will likely win it is this year (Lionel Messi is top dog this season)

Anyway, this is pointless


Though Hiddinks comments that Ronaldo's priorities are in keeping his hair neat are definitely funny, seeing as the guy burst a gut to get his head to probably the best header in the Champions League last year (against Roma away, though his goal in the final comes close too)

Laughable stuff

Hiddink would do well to be checking how his team of bottlers once again blew it when the going got tough last summer

Those hard-working qualities he loves so much were not evident then (either was Gerrard, but his country didn't even qualify for that tournament)

[mightyquark]

Russian economy in free fall...his sugar Daddy Arbrohamovic is experiencing some financial difficulties and is open to a buyer for Chelsea and wants to rid himself of his association with the Russian FA.The Liverpool job could well be up for grabs...praise the local hero,Ridicule rival ,therefore endearing yourself to the local populace.
Hiddink is smart...

[STEVIEG]

Russian economy in free fall...his sugar Daddy Arbrohamovic is experiencing some financial difficulties and is open to a buyer for Chelsea and wants to rid himself of his association with the Russian FA.The Liverpool job could well be up for grabs...praise the local hero,Ridicule rival ,therefore endearing yourself to the local populace.
Hiddink is smart...

could well be there has to be something to it

Smoggem, get on the Ronaldo bandwagon with us, a wise man once told me, "If ya can't beat them Spoggem":)

[SPOGGEM]

ronaldo = legend biy!

[STEVIEG]

heh heh heh:)

[ANVIL]

Obviously we can argue about this till the cows come home but surely we can all agree that whilst Ronaldo is a great player he doesn't have any class.
Not in the same way that someone like Zidane had real class.Came from the ghetto but had quality and honesty stamped through him like a stick of rock.
Ronaldo is a great player who will always be known as a cheating grease-ball.
End of.

[Coin]

Ronaldo is one of the most skillfill players in the world and therefore would have a claim in a "Worlds most skillfull player poll"
I would have always thought of skill as close control with the football. I don't think Ronaldo's skill in that sense is anywhere near the class of Messi. Ronaldo does have the best combination of speed, power and control though. Watch him when he beats someone, its almost always raw speed and strength that get him past, not skill with the ball. All the stepovers tend to be a preamble to knocking the ball past a defender and running after it.

The thing is that most people with his speed have fairly poor close control, whereas his is quite good.

To be honest though, how he gets past people is irrelevant, the fact that he does is what's important.

[lionelhutz]

He is Uniteds best player this season IMO but what fuckwits like Hiddink don't seem to realise is what this award is for




hold your horses there stevie. hiddink knows more about football than you or i will ever hope to know. its a very reasonable point of view. the likes of you were bemoaning the fact that royston never got near the award so its a bit rich to be levelling such criticism as a top football man like hiddink

[ANVIL]

hold your horses there stevie. hiddink knows more about football than you or i will ever hope to know. its a very reasonable point of view. the likes of you were bemoaning the fact that royston never got near the award so its a bit rich to be levelling such criticism as a top football man like hiddink

Spot on - this is from a man who complains about the level of posting on here then has the temerity to call one of the modern game's best managers a fuckwit.
Everyone admires a person who has loyalty to their team through thick and thin but when that loyalty is blind to the faults of some of the players it's hard to take that person seriously beyond the " Who are ya,who are ya " level of yobbish debate.

[mightyquark]

Came from the ghetto but had quality and honesty stamped through him like a stick of rock.

End of.

Zidane has shown that honesty a few times in his career...ie World cup final against Italy ?
A great great player and a darling of the FIFA PR machine..a very intelligent and sensitive guy but he had a serious nasty streak aswell.

[ANVIL]

I don't disagree - Cantona had a nasty streak as well but he also had class.
So did Lineker and Best.
But Gazza didn't.
Rooney doesn't have class but Giggs does.
Do you see where I'm coming from - it's not how good a player is or was but whether they had class.

[mightyquark]

[QUOTE=ANVIL;2471053]Spot on - this is from a man who complains about the level of posting on here then has the temerity to call one of the modern game's best managers a fuckwit.
Everyone admires a person who has loyalty to their team through thick and thin but when that loyalty is blind to the faults of some of the players it's hard to take that person seriously beyond the " Who are ya,who are ya " level of yobbish debate.[/QUOTE


Lots of yobbish behaviour on here..ie hoping someone gets creased or wishing for bad injuries to happene to certain players etc..but of course Anvil YOU would never condone that sort of behaviour...would you?

Hiddink is a top coach..now dig a bit deeper ie the fitness coach he used for Korea and Australia(i have mentioned him on here last year) and you may end up
with your answer for Ronaldos heading technique..I mean if Hiddink approves of it surely surely then..........

[ANVIL]

[QUOTE=ANVIL;2471053]Spot on - this is from a man who complains about the level of posting on here then has the temerity to call one of the modern game's best managers a fuckwit.
Everyone admires a person who has loyalty to their team through thick and thin but when that loyalty is blind to the faults of some of the players it's hard to take that person seriously beyond the " Who are ya,who are ya " level of yobbish debate.[/QUOTE


Lots of yobbish behaviour on here..ie hoping someone gets creased or wishing for bad injuries to happene to certain players etc..but of course Anvil YOU would never condone that sort of behaviour...would you?

Hiddink is a top coach..now dig a bit deeper ie the fitness coach he used for Korea and Australia(i have mentioned him on here last year) and you may end up
with your answer for Ronaldos heading technique..I mean if Hiddink approves of it surely surely then..........

You keep on bringing this issue up Quarky Baby.
It's is physically impossible for Ronaldo to stay in the air any longer than anybody else.
End of.
Or do you know something about the laws of gravity that I don't ?
And no I have never condoned players being deliberately injured. If you were anything like a regular poster on here you would know that I have often made the unfashionable point that fair play is as important to the game of football now as it was when the Corinthian Casuals were a major force.

[STEVIEG]

hold your horses there stevie. hiddink knows more about football than you or i will ever hope to know. its a very reasonable point of view. the likes of you were bemoaning the fact that royston never got near the award so its a bit rich to be levelling such criticism as a top football man like hiddink

That Gerrard had a better season than Ronaldo?

Er, no it is not

Roy Keane won leagues in his time and was good in Europe


Gerrards season last year came nothing close

Messi was better
Torres was better
Vidic was better
Rio was better
Rooney was better
Lampard was better
Xavi was better

The list goes on

He is having a good season this season but that is not the issue

Hiddink is talking through his hole the fact that Ronaldo got so much votes for each award speaks for itself
Anyone disputing his award last year is simply beyond bitter (his reasons for doing so are pretty poor too)

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

hold your horses there stevie. hiddink knows more about football than you or i will ever hope to know. its a very reasonable point of view. the likes of you were bemoaning the fact that royston never got near the award so its a bit rich to be levelling such criticism as a top football man like hiddink

aye, hiddink is a legend. but he was on the sauce during this interview i feel.
ronaldo despite the fuckwittery, cuntishness and brylcream was essentially a right midfielder/winger/frontman who scored a phenomal amount of goals last season and there was some games there where he was just truly awesome.

kaka
cannavaro
ronaldinho
zidane
ronaldo (real one)
figo
rivaldo
weah
romario
baggio
basten
matthaus



maybe rivaldo would be the closest to ronaldo on the cuntish stakes from previous winners there. he joins a list of legends but he deffo is the odd one out for me.
But just like when dinho got it and as of this year when ronaldo got it and you could even argue when kaka got it.....
theres no outstanding rivals spring to mind to rival them people winning it.
doesnt mean they are the best player on the planet. it just means that they are the best player that year.

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

That Gerrard had a better season than Ronaldo?

Er, no it is not

Roy Keane won leagues in his time and was good in Europe


Gerrards season last year came nothing close

Messi was better
Torres was better
Vidic was better
Rio was better
Rooney was better
Lampard was better
Xavi was better

The list goes on

He is having a good season this season but that is not the issue

Hiddink is talking through his hole the fact that Ronaldo got so much votes for each award speaks for itself
Anyone disputing his award last year is simply beyond bitter (his reasons for doing so are pretty poor too)

lampard wasnt
rio wasnt
messi wasnt
rooney wasnt

xavi was
torres was
vidic was.

[STEVIEG]

lampard wasnt
rio wasnt
messi wasnt
rooney wasnt

xavi was
torres was
vidic was.

Last season

they all were

and there's loads more too

[RonnyB]

lampard wasnt
rio wasnt
messi wasnt
rooney wasnt

xavi was
torres was
vidic was.

Wasnt better than Gerrard? He was United's best player for me last season and was much better than Vidic IMO.

[STEVIEG]

Rio had a great season

Let me add Adebayor and Fabregas to the list of players better than Gerrard last year

[xvis]

Obviously we can argue about this till the cows come home but surely we can all agree that whilst Ronaldo is a great player he doesn't have any class.
Not in the same way that someone like Zidane had real class.Came from the ghetto but had quality and honesty stamped through him like a stick of rock.
Ronaldo is a great player who will always be known as a cheating grease-ball.
End of.

What are the charges in the thread?


Hiddink reckons Ronaldo is too handsome and is too concerned with the individual rather than the team compared to some other players.

He's entitled to his opinion, and he voted Xavi, Gerrard and Messi in order.


As he described above, some of his reasons for his preference were not just football reasons, 'He is a player who fans can identify themselves with and a man who carries the love for his club on his club badge' he said regarding Gerrard, he liked him as a clubman at the heart of a team.

His preference for Gerrard's superior 'tactical qualities' is interesting.
..and whether Gerrard can make some decisions on the pitch which are better for the team or selfish is another one up for discussion.


Anyway, ..opinions are great in a democratic decisions, and 2008 saw unanimous decisions across the board with players through FIFPro, journalists through the Ballon D'Or and coaches and captains through FIFA all having landslide decisions in favour of Ronaldo being the best footballer in the world in 2008.


Well done Ronnie.

[xvis]

Wasnt better than Gerrard? He was United's best player for me last season and was much better than Vidic IMO.

100 per cent of United fans would say that last year.


100 per cent.

[ANVIL]

What are the charges in the thread?


Hiddink reckons Ronaldo is too handsome and is too concerned with the individual rather than the team compared to some other players.

He's entitled to his opinion, and he voted Xavi, Gerrard and Messi in order.


As he described above, some of his reasons for his preference were not just football reasons, 'He is a player who fans can identify themselves with and a man who carries the love for his club on his club badge' he said regarding Gerrard, he liked him as a clubman at the heart of a team.

His preference for Gerrard's superior 'tactical qualities' is interesting.
..and whether Gerrard can make some decisions on the pitch which are better for the team or selfish is another one up for discussion.


Anyway, ..opinions are great in a democratic decisions, and 2008 saw unanimous decisions across the board with players through FIFPro, journalists through the Ballon D'Or and coaches and captains through FIFA all having landslide decisions in favour of Ronaldo being the best footballer in the world in 2008.


Well done Ronnie.

And Ronaldo has repaid all those who voted for him including Manchester United supporters by pouting and sulking all the way through this season making it clear he would much rather be somewhere else than performing in a red shirt.
It's what I mean by pure class and the Portuguese grease-ball wouldn't know class if it licked his arse like the rest of the fawning idiots too afraid to speak the truth.

[xvis]

And Ronaldo has repaid all those who voted for him including Manchester United supporters by pouting and sulking all the way through this season making it clear he would much rather be somewhere else than performing in a red shirt.
It's what I mean by pure class and the Portuguese grease-ball wouldn't know class if it licked his arse like the rest of the fawning idiots too afraid to speak the truth.

He has also repayed Manchester United supporters by being top scorer for the club this season even after missing two months, ..and has the club on course for a historic season as things stand.


His interview last week set a few of the tabloid stuff aside for a while.

There are trophies to be concentrating on, and that's what Ronaldo will be focusing on in the next months.

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

Wasnt better than Gerrard? He was United's best player for me last season and was much better than Vidic IMO.

rio is nothing without vidic. he frees up rio to do what rio does best.



im not having that lampard was better than gerrard last year. or fabregas for that matter. fabregas obviously has more of a shout because of his european exploits as well.

i still stand by my they werent better list.

[STEVIEG]

Vidic is uniteds best player THIS season but Rio was a title winning player of top quality even before he joined

Though they are a great partnership

United have even managed to win a few big games without Vidic too (and without Rio)



Lampard had a better season than Gerrard last year and helped his team come close to winning things

gerrard is one of the best players this season however

[Loftydog]

Perhaps Hiddink should concentrate on his tax affairs instead

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

Lampard had a better season than Gerrard last year and helped his team come close to winning things
gerrard is one of the best players this season however

gerrard is playing grear=t this year. last year he was playing even better. torres would have finished the season with half the goals only for him.
stevie are you in some kinda weird time bubble where your getting this year and last year mixed up.

the fifa pro team of the year has a midfield & attack of

---kaka----gerrard----xavi---
ronaldo-----messi------torres
no sign of lampard.


the pfa team of the year has a midfield & attack of

---ronaldo---gerrard---fabregas---
young------adeybyeor------torres



I just cant understand how fifa & the pfa have gerrard both in their midfields and no sign of lampard yet the "proc" & its "members" can say that lampard had a better season. Of football is about opinions fair enough but theres two fairly strong opinions that what your saying is bollix.

[STEVIEG]

Kaka???

oh dear

nuff said



This is bollocks

and we are well off the point

Ronaldos season pissed on Gerrards

Hiddink is talking through his hole

end of thread

[Swoosh]

Take a deep breath

and google some stats from 2008 and check out what the likes of Gerrard and Torres have actually done compared to Ronaldo

Hiddink was obviously drunk at the time......

Saw this this morning and laughed my hole off!


Whatever about Gerrard, Torres also had a year comparable to the greasy one.

Try googling Torres' stats for 2008 Stevie and they are very impressive giving it was his first season in the premier league.

Scoring on his Anfield debut V Chelsea.
Eclipising RVN record of League goals in a debut season as well as equaling Roger Hunts record of scoring in 8 consecutive league games @ Anfield.
the first player since Fowler to score more than 20 league goals.
The first Liverpool player since Jackie Balmer in November 1946 to score a hat-trick in successive home matches.
Winning Euro 2008 and Torres scored the winner and claimed the Man of the match award in the final against Germany in a 1–0 victory.

Impressive enough to be compared to anyone when considering who he has to work with.

Ronaldo was a shoe in for the award though but Torres is comparable to anyone.

[Swoosh]

Rio had a great season

Let me add Adebayor and Fabregas to the list of players better than Gerrard last year


Ah Stevie come on now lad.

Gerrard is the key factor in Torres scoring so many last year that was apparent to everyone that their form was so strong together. I think the fact that he had Torres with him last year to take the pressure off him and indeed a good share of the spotlight that is having you not pay sufficent acceptance of his performances last season

[lionelhutz]

aye, hiddink is a legend. but he was on the sauce during this interview i feel.
ronaldo despite the fuckwittery, cuntishness and brylcream was essentially a right midfielder/winger/frontman who scored a phenomal amount of goals last season and there was some games there where he was just truly awesome.

kaka
cannavaro
ronaldinho
zidane
ronaldo (real one)
figo
rivaldo
weah
romario
baggio
basten
matthaus



maybe rivaldo would be the closest to ronaldo on the cuntish stakes from previous winners there. he joins a list of legends but he deffo is the odd one out for me.
But just like when dinho got it and as of this year when ronaldo got it and you could even argue when kaka got it.....
theres no outstanding rivals spring to mind to rival them people winning it.
doesnt mean they are the best player on the planet. it just means that they are the best player that year.

bollocks.

hiddink is a manager that excels in getting the best out of a team over individuals. he made a point, that the majority wouldn't agree with, but to call a man a fuckwit is just daft. look at what he's done. he sees the bigger picture, not the glitz and the glam. who gives a fuck what utd won. its an individual award. ive seen the criteria for the thing anyway and its a crock of shit. and individual award should be solely based on performance, not fuckin medals. maradonna has a fairly average medal cabinet when compared with some. should that have a bearing on his genius?. gerrard finished 10th in the poll, so a hell of a lot of experts regard him highly. being laughed at like this shows up some posters. apart from the relief of having torres in the team last year gerrard has, for quite some time, been carrying liverpool to unbelievable success when you compare the squads of utd and liverpool. he's basically saying that he'd rather gerrard in a team of his. whats so crazy about that?

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

Kaka???

oh dear

nuff said



This is bollocks

and we are well off the point

Ronaldos season pissed on Gerrards

Hiddink is talking through his hole

end of thread

kaka had a good enough season but considering milan didnt tear up any trees didnt get the headlines.
played 40 games for milan, got 20 goals.

and thats him having a bad season.
name another player who played that few games and got that many goals.
which was his joint highest ever goal tally...

but anyway back to your lampard was better than gerrard......you cant divert the argument when it doesnt suit you stevie. how in gods name can you think he had a better season when gerrard out scored him and had more assists.






















please note, i think lampard had another great season. but he wasnt better than gerrard.

[STEVIEG]

Lampard was one of the main reasons why a team in turmoil got close to actually winning things

he did well in the big games too, much better than Gerrard last year

Gerrard is having a good season this year though

[STEVIEG]

Ah Stevie come on now lad.

Gerrard is the key factor in Torres scoring so many last year that was apparent to everyone that their form was so strong together. I think the fact that he had Torres with him last year to take the pressure off him and indeed a good share of the spotlight that is having you not pay sufficent acceptance of his performances last season

Ronaldo scored far more than Torres so this point is not that relevant

Torres was considerably closer to having a great year though

Gerrard >>>> Torres this season
Gerrard even > Ronaldo this season

But Ronaldo deserved his award last year

[STEVIEG]

Whatever about Gerrard, Torres also had a year comparable to the greasy one.

Try googling Torres' stats for 2008 Stevie and they are very impressive giving it was his first season in the premier league.

Scoring on his Anfield debut V Chelsea.
Eclipising RVN record of League goals in a debut season as well as equaling Roger Hunts record of scoring in 8 consecutive league games @ Anfield.
the first player since Fowler to score more than 20 league goals.
The first Liverpool player since Jackie Balmer in November 1946 to score a hat-trick in successive home matches.
Winning Euro 2008 and Torres scored the winner and claimed the Man of the match award in the final against Germany in a 1–0 victory.

Impressive enough to be compared to anyone when considering who he has to work with.

Ronaldo was a shoe in for the award though but Torres is comparable to anyone.

All true but Ronaldo >>> Torres as you say



I would have less a problem with Hiddinks point if he had said Torres rather than Gerrard though


And Ronaldo blew many records away aswell

[RonnyB]

rio is nothing without vidic. he frees up rio to do what rio does best.


im not having that lampard was better than gerrard last year. or fabregas for that matter. fabregas obviously has more of a shout because of his european exploits as well.

i still stand by my they werent better list.

Watch the 2nd leg semi final against Barca last season. Ferdinand was immense. The amount of times Vidic bails Rio out is always highlighted by the likes of Dunphy, funny how when Rio has to cover Vidic's errors nothing is said.

Most United fans on here would agree with me and with respect I think we would probably see more United games than what you would to comment on the various opinions.

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

bollocks.

hiddink is a manager that excels in getting the best out of a team over individuals. he made a point, that the majority wouldn't agree with, but to call a man a fuckwit is just daft. look at what he's done. he sees the bigger picture, not the glitz and the glam. who gives a fuck what utd won. its an individual award. ive seen the criteria for the thing anyway and its a crock of shit. and individual award should be solely based on performance, not fuckin medals. maradonna has a fairly average medal cabinet when compared with some. should that have a bearing on his genius?. gerrard finished 10th in the poll, so a hell of a lot of experts regard him highly. being laughed at like this shows up some posters. apart from the relief of having torres in the team last year gerrard has, for quite some time, been carrying liverpool to unbelievable success when you compare the squads of utd and liverpool. he's basically saying that he'd rather gerrard in a team of his. whats so crazy about that?


i dont mind what he said about gerrard. i didnt read the article.
i read the headlines here which is claiming that ronaldo didnt deserve player of the year.

he did. if hiddink doesnt think so fair enough thats an opinion. an opinion 99% of football people would probably disagree with.

id pick gerrard in my team ahead of ronaldo. the same way id pick torres in my team ahead of villa. and vidic in my team ahead of rio. managers can appreciate other players styles to ones winning awards.

see my example of two top strikers in henry/ruud. yet play the position very different with the same results to be fair.

hiddink said arshavin was one of the best players he ever saw.
i dispute that with him too.
hidds is a very good manager. even one of the best. but saying ronaldo didnt deserve player of the year is wrong.

fifa and the pfa recognised gerrards role at liverpool last season. he won the midfield spot in both dream teams. and i agree. saying lampard had a better season is fuckin laughable. saying gerrard as better than ronnie is even more laughable. he didnt.

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

Lampard was one of the main reasons why a team in turmoil got close to actually winning things

he did well in the big games too, much better than Gerrard last year

Gerrard is having a good season this year though

again stevie. fifa (who appointed your ronaldo) as their midfield man ahead of lampard disagree with you. as does the pfa. As do I.


you cant pick and choose when fifa get it right (when its ronaldo) & wrong (when its gerrard)

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

Ronaldo scored far more than Torres so this point is not that relevant

Torres was considerably closer to having a great year though

Gerrard >>>> Torres this season
Gerrard even > Ronaldo this season

But Ronaldo deserved his award last year

torres injured this season
ronaldo returning to maybe "his level"
gerrard continuing on his rich veign of form from last year.


i reckon you mustn have seen much of gerrard last year.
glad fifa & the pfa have recognised his work though.

[STEVIEG]

again stevie. fifa (who appointed your ronaldo) as their midfield man ahead of lampard disagree with you. as does the pfa. As do I.


you cant pick and choose when fifa get it right (when its ronaldo) & wrong (when its gerrard)

Ronaldo was a shoe in and you even agree that he was best

Lampard was better than Gerrard last year when it mattered; that's my opinion

But it is off the point


This is an individual award and it' clear to everyone but the most bitter that Ronaldo was the best player and deserved it

[STEVIEG]

torres injured this season
ronaldo returning to maybe "his level"
gerrard continuing on his rich veign of form from last year.


i reckon you mustn have seen much of gerrard last year.
glad fifa & the pfa have recognised his work though.

I didn't see much of him in the big games against United and Chelsea anyway he went missing that's about 6 games we are talking about (look it up)



Ronaldo was injured too this season but it was inevitable his form would dip sometime (he was excellent in the big game with Chelsea though and has a gear or two in him)

Gerrard is playing much better this season too, but has a better team around him (Alonso etc)

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

Watch the 2nd leg semi final against Barca last season. Ferdinand was immense. The amount of times Vidic bails Rio out is always highlighted by the likes of Dunphy, funny how when Rio has to cover Vidic's errors nothing is said.

Most United fans on here would agree with me and with respect I think we would probably see more United games than what you would to comment on the various opinions.

ya you might see more utd games, but im more nuetral. I have no agenda either way. I have no love of either. I call it as i see it.
im not comparing an arsenal defender to a utd one so theres no bias.

ferdinand was a joke type defender. utd got horsed on the fee.
Since vidic has come into the team rio has played with a such a weight off his back hes even starting to look like a bargain.

Ill say again. rio is only playing as good as he is because he has the ultimate defender to suit rios game.


Gallas is a fantastic centre back. Toure is a fantastic centre back. Together they are one of the worst partnerships for whatever reason.

Individually vidic & rio are great defenders. together they are in my view the best central partnership in the world. with terry and carvalho behind them.




again no bias, no agenda, no anti utd debates etc. vidic makes rio.

[STEVIEG]

Hardly explains Rio's title winning season in 2003 and the fact that United were top of the league the following year till the FA went to town on him

Also, he was more than excellent with Vidic out in Uniteds toughest game last year (Barca)

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

Ronaldo was a shoe in and you even agree that he was best

Lampard was better than Gerrard last year when it mattered; that's my opinion

But it is off the point


This is an individual award and it' clear to everyone but the most bitter that Ronaldo was the best player and deserved it

ronaldo was the only player who came close to world player of the year for me. And you know how much torres winning it would have given me huge mileage on here (considering hes the next dalian atkinson & a poor mans andy cole). But ronaldo was smiles better than his rivals. Fuckin smiles.


but lampard being better than gerrard is bollix.

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

Gerrard is playing much better this season too, but has a better team around him (Alonso etc)

goals aside (because their main strikers have spent alot of time out of the side) gerrard isnt playing as good.

do you judge players on goals or what?



again point stands. i cant see how fifa get it so right in picking ronaldo, but then so wrong in picking gerrard.
id take your point and say that its just a difference of opinion if fifa & the pfa werent backing my point up.

but stevie only a blind man would be sticking to his guns saying lampard was better when two of the top organisations for rating players include gerrard in their starting 11 and no sign of lamps.


can you even find a team of the year that has lampard and no gerrard?

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

skys team of the year had

RM: Flamini
CM: Gerrard
LM: Fabregas

FW: Ronaldo
FW: Torres
FW: Ashley Young

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

4-4-2s top 100 of last year

1. Christiano Ronaldo - Manchester United
2. Lionel Messi - Barcelona
3. Fernando Torres - Liverpool
10. Steven Gerrard - Liverpool
11. Xavi Hernandez - Barcelona
12. Cesc Fabregas - Arsenal
13. Frank Lampard - Chelsea

[Swoosh]

Ronaldo scored far more than Torres so this point is not that relevant

Torres was considerably closer to having a great year though

Gerrard >>>> Torres this season
Gerrard even > Ronaldo this season

But Ronaldo deserved his award last year

Torres has been injured for most of this season, has he not?

The point about Torres last season is relevant. Hiddink didnt say Ronaldo didnt score more than Torres and neither did I. I was talking about performances, performances that he put in with Liverpool and Spain who would not have the same calibre of players around him as Ronaldo does/did at United.

Ronaldo scored more that is a fact.

But performance wise they can be compared as it is something that belongs in opinion and not 35 v 24

[Cannabis]

Oh yes the only reason Ronaldo won world player of the year is because hes a pretty boy with just the right amount of hair gel. Its not because hes a right winger who scored 42 goals in one season and went on to win the premership and champions league with utd.

Kaka, Messi and Gerrard are great players but what the fuck did they acheive last season? Fuck all. He desvered it for his performances last season and for what he helped utd acheive last season. Looking at this year if messi and barca keep going the way they are messi will probaly get it next season.

So stop hateing cause you're ugly virgins who support shit teams. U guys mad?

[RonnyB]

ya you might see more utd games, but im more nuetral. I have no agenda either way. I have no love of either. I call it as i see it.
im not comparing an arsenal defender to a utd one so theres no bias.

ferdinand was a joke type defender. utd got horsed on the fee.
Since vidic has come into the team rio has played with a such a weight off his back hes even starting to look like a bargain.

Ill say again. rio is only playing as good as he is because he has the ultimate defender to suit rios game.


Gallas is a fantastic centre back. Toure is a fantastic centre back. Together they are one of the worst partnerships for whatever reason.

Individually vidic & rio are great defenders. together they are in my view the best central partnership in the world. with terry and carvalho behind them.




again no bias, no agenda, no anti utd debates etc. vidic makes rio.

I have no agenda either, if anything I'd prefer Vidic over Rio purely because of character. However when it comes to the United team I always call it as I see it. Doesnt it worry me how much United spend on the likes of Rio? Not really so price doesnt come into it for me with regards whose the better player or had the better season. I'm hardly going to put down 1 United player just to make another look good. Theres no bias shown towards either simply cos they both play for the team I support.

The only game I've been to in recent seasons was that Barca match last year. I couldnt believe Ferdinand's performance that night. Stuff that you'd expect Vidic to do with regards clearing headers and the like, Ferdinand did with the same effort. Brown playing well also helped too.

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

even take something so trivial as fantasy football.
using the premierleagues website...


currently gerrard is behind lampard on pts.
(tallys with my opinion gerrard isnt having as good a season as last year)

Last season lampard has 149pts 10 goals 10 assists.
Last season gerrard had 200pts 11 goals 11 assists.

thats something thats trivial but generally the players having good seasons & great seasons etc finish above the others.

i mean i could go into man of the match stats, passing stats, tackles etc and see who comes out on top. but i reckon im wasting my time because the facts, stats etc are stacked against your opinion. let alone fifa & the pfa who for me are as near to spot on with their list as youd get.


and that list (for balance sake) includes fifa having rio instead of vidic.

[Swoosh]

Oh yes the only reason Ronaldo won world player of the year is because hes a pretty boy with just the right amount of hair gel. Its not because hes a right winger who scored 42 goals in one season and went on to win the premership and champions league with utd.

Kaka, Messi and Gerrard are great players but what the fuck did they acheive last season? Fuck all. He desvered it for his performances last season and for what he helped utd acheive last season. Looking at this year if messi and barca keep going the way they are messi will probaly get it next season.

So stop hateing cause you're ugly virgins who support shit teams. U guys mad?

even take something so trivial as fantasy football.
using the premierleagues website...


currently gerrard is behind lampard on pts.
(tallys with my opinion gerrard isnt having as good a season as last year)

Last season lampard has 149pts 10 goals 10 assists.
Last season gerrard had 200pts 11 goals 11 assists.

thats something thats trivial but generally the players having good seasons & great seasons etc finish above the others.

i mean i could go into man of the match stats, passing stats, tackles etc and see who comes out on top. but i reckon im wasting my time because the facts, stats etc are stacked against your opinion. let alone fifa & the pfa who for me are as near to spot on with their list as youd get.


and that list (for balance sake) includes fifa having rio instead of vidic.

Firstly Ronaldo aint a right winger he's a Right Forward. The likes of James Milner are right wingers considering most top teams dont play a standard 4-4-4

Secondly Gerrard was out for a spell this season reducing his impact on his fantasty footy stats

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

I have no agenda either, if anything I'd prefer Vidic over Rio purely because of character. However when it comes to the United team I always call it as I see it. Doesnt it worry me how much United spend on the likes of Rio? Not really so price doesnt come into it for me with regards whose the better player or had the better season. I'm hardly going to put down 1 United player just to make another look good. Theres no bias shown towards either simply cos they both play for the team I support.

The only game I've been to in recent seasons was that Barca match last year. I couldnt believe Ferdinand's performance that night. Stuff that you'd expect Vidic to do with regards clearing headers and the like, Ferdinand did with the same effort. Brown playing well also helped too.

thats fair enough. thats a differance of opinion. as an outsider looking on i rate vidic more highly. simply because he brings the best out of rio. and a vidic less team results in a poorer rio 9/10.

Again this is an outsiders opinion looking on.


whod argue carvalho is better than terry? or even terrys better than carvalho? difference for me is both of them play the same without each other. in my opinion rio drops down a level when not side by side with vidic.

but look were talking fractions here.

my big issue with this thread is stevies attitude towards gerrard. a player who had a fantastic season last year and stevie is trying to spout that lamps was better yet none of it adds up. and most media/sporting bodies etc. seem to have gerrard in there top team/list ahead of lamps.


and i didnt know that before entering this debate. i just used my opinion but it seems theres a wealth of stuff out there to back it up.

[STEVIEG]

Torres has been injured for most of this season, has he not?

The point about Torres last season is relevant. Hiddink didnt say Ronaldo didnt score more than Torres and neither did I. I was talking about performances, performances that he put in with Liverpool and Spain who would not have the same calibre of players around him as Ronaldo does/did at United.

Ronaldo scored more that is a fact.

But performance wise they can be compared as it is something that belongs in opinion and not 35 v 24

I'm not really sure what the point is here but i said that Torres was superb last season

Ronaldo was the best player in the world though as pretty much everyone agrees

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

Secondly Gerrard was out for a spell this season reducing his impact on his fantasty footy stats

correct!! on checking there i see lamps has played 300mins more.
point still stands though. gerrard this year has being playing with far more freedom because torres has been out and liverpool are letting him be more of a roaming striker than a central midfielder.


but still thats just an opinion on this season i have.


were on about lamps being better last year. something i dispute 100%

[STEVIEG]

but stevie only a blind man would be sticking to his guns saying lampard was better when two of the top organisations for rating players include gerrard in their starting 11 and no sign of lamps.


can you even find a team of the year that has lampard and no gerrard?

Last year Lampard drove Chelsea on to contention

Liverpool did fuck all despite having a top rate striker

[Swoosh]

I'm not really sure what the point is here but i said that Torres was superb last season

Ronaldo was the best player in the world though as pretty much everyone agrees


I'm saying Torres' performances were comparable to what Ronaldo did with United as you wouldnt be comparing like with like.

[STEVIEG]

Again this is an outsiders opinion looking on.



a lot of outsiders have never rated Rio

Fergie knows more than most

[STEVIEG]

I'm saying Torres' performances were comparable to what Ronaldo did with United as you wouldnt be comparing like with like.

Ronaldo did better though

It's fairly obvious and not disputed

[Swoosh]

Last year Lampard drove Chelsea on to contention

Liverpool did fuck all despite having a top rate striker


Liverpool improved dramatically on where they were. Your not comparing like with like. Any team that has Riise, Kuyt, Babel and Benitez as manager cant be expecting to win the FA cup not to mind anything else. To get to the champions league semi final was a good achievement

[STEVIEG]

my big issue with this thread is stevies attitude towards gerrard. a player who had a fantastic season last year

I reckon this is horseshit


Liverpool were poor for most of last season and so was Gerrard


This season he has been MUCH better

[Swoosh]

Ronaldo did better though

It's fairly obvious and not disputed


Your missing the point. If Ronaldo played for Liverpool would he have scored so much or if Torres played for United would he have scored more?

You have to place a weighting alongside what each of them had to put up with and Torres had to put up with a lot more shit than Ronaldo did/does

[Cannabis]

Firstly Ronaldo aint a right winger he's a Right Forward. The likes of James Milner are right wingers considering most top teams dont play a standard 4-4-4

Secondly Gerrard was out for a spell this season reducing his impact on his fantasty footy stats

I don't think any teams play a 4-4-4 you tit. Bet you're a primary school teacher. And yes he is a right winger. He plays right mid. Yes he floats about the place but hes a winger and not a forward. Accept defeat. I win.

[Swoosh]

I reckon this is horseshit


Liverpool were poor for most of last season and so was Gerrard


This season he has been MUCH better


No Naff is on the ball.

Gerrard was superb with Torres last year. Gerrard has never had a poor season for Liverpool he has always been either there best or 2nd best player.

If its just the rivalry between the 2 clubs thats stopping you from seeing and admitting that then your more blinkered than what I had you down for

[Swoosh]

I don't think any teams play a 4-4-4 you tit. Bet you're a primary school teacher. And yes he is a right winger. He plays right mid. Yes he floats about the place but hes a winger and not a forward. Accept defeat. I win.

Not even United fans will tell you he's a right winger.

Naff has pointed out the various teams of the year most of which have him down as a forward.

[duffer31]

highly-respected international coach guus hiddink has claimed
cristiano ronaldo's world footballer of the year award
had more to do with his looks and hairstyle than the goals and talent that helped united to the premier league and champions league double last season - and has kept them in the hunt for four trophies this campaign.

'cristiano ronaldo is a good-looking footballer, he looks fit and, oh yes, his hair is always in place,' said hiddink, currently coach of russia. 'but him winning the award is too much about glamour.'

hiddink insisted that liverpool captain steven gerrard had a greater claim to being named the best player on the planet.

Gerrard came only 10th in last month's fifa poll for world player of the year. Portugal's ronaldo swept to victory, with barcelona's lionel messi second and fernando torres, of liverpool, third.
Coach of russia, guus hiddink

" i very much preferred gerrard,' said hiddink. 'he has superb technical and tactical qualities and i admire his spirit and attitude on the pitch.

'it has everything to do with his passion for the game and my passion for football.

'he is a player who fans can identify themselves with and a man who carries the love for his club on his club badge.

'there is not another player in the world who combines all those qualities. He is the type of player who appeals so much more to me than cristiano ronaldo.

'of course, ronaldo entertains the crowds and has great skills. But it is too much glamour and show. Gerrard, barcelona's xavi and messi are not as much focused on themselves. They focus on the team.'

are fellas actually still on about this. What more does he need to win.

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

No Naff is on the ball.

Gerrard was superb with Torres last year. Gerrard has never had a poor season for Liverpool he has always been either there best or 2nd best player.

If its just the rivalry between the 2 clubs thats stopping you from seeing and admitting that then your more blinkered than what I had you down for

i reckon gerrards provided torres with 90% of his assists last year.
the two of them were fuckin unreal. I personally was shocked to see robbie sign for the pool because gerrard was playing so well in that second striker/attacking midfielder role.

Gerrard has consistantly done it for liverpool. This year hes been providing the goals (and important goals at that) for liverpool while their strikers have stuttered and farted. but his all round play hasnt been the same, it hasnt been as energetic and dynamic and i think thats due to the fact that gerrard is at his best when hes got a "quality" player to feed into.

as proved with torres.

they were as good as it gets last year partnership wise.

[xvis]

There's never really been much between Gerrard and Lampard, ..but in 2008 I thought for first time that Lampard had moved ahead of Gerrard in performances, IMO.

particularly around August and September 2008 when Lampard was on a different plane.


But both have been fantastic and should be around the top ten of world players, as they both are in the polls, but it's marginal either way whatever way one's opinion falls.


But certainly Ronaldo was far ahead of both, and everyone else, in 2008.

[Philby]

Although he can only contribute to the team in a small amount of ways (scoring bag fulls of goals & taking the pressure off by going on mazy runs & drawing fouls being the most prominent imho) Ronaldo contribution in those areas was so enormous that, for all his failings, you simply couldn't ignore his contribution.

In a year where he won the double and scored an unfeasible amount of goals you simply couldn't deny him that award, even if you feel that there are other more rounded, less egotistical more team-focused players. You simply couldn't.

For what it's worth I think that Gerrard is criminally underrated on here (in the main by United fans it must be said).

His all-round game is quite formidable and even his perceived development needs of a few years back (inability to play the simply/direct ball, inability to act as a leader and spur his team on to victory, failure to get the goals tally his pace & shooting deserve) have largely been addressed.

From what I've seen of the premiership so far this season Gerrard is very well placed to scoop a number of individual awards (with his team-mate Xabi Alonso arguably matching his performance levels in a more understated manner) as he's once again playing some lovely stuff. His mix of physicality, pace, desire and no small portion of skill is a tough act to beat.

[duffer31]

there's never really been much between gerrard and lampard, ..but in 2008 i thought for first time that lampard had moved ahead of gerrard in performances, imo.

Particularly around august and september 2008 when lampard was on a different plane.


But both have been fantastic and should be around the top ten of world players, as they both are in the polls, but it's marginal either way whatever way one's opinion falls.


But certainly ronaldo was far ahead of both, and everyone else, in 2008.

agree with all ofthis 1000% and right now messi is better than the 3 of them tied together. In fact at the moment messi would beat lampard,gerrard,and ronaldo at 3 goals in while only hopping on one leg. Football is a game as we know that can change iN seconds.......

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

For what it's worth I think that Gerrard is criminally underrated on here (in the main by United fans it must be said).
.

criminally.
and your right im starting to see a common theme. even searching back through the player of the year thread. its all utd fans questioning gerrards inclusion.

gerrard has been consistantly good down through the years.
i feel this season as good as hes been trying to componsate for liverpool having a dross attack hes lost something. something that will be put right once torres is back full time.

[RonnyB]

Although he can only contribute to the team in a small amount of ways (scoring bag fulls of goals & taking the pressure off by going on mazy runs & drawing fouls being the most prominent imho) Ronaldo contribution in those areas was so enormous that, for all his failings, you simply couldn't ignore his contribution.

In a year where he won the double and scored an unfeasible amount of goals you simply couldn't deny him that award, even if you feel that there are other more rounded, less egotistical more team-focused players. You simply couldn't.

For what it's worth I think that Gerrard is criminally underrated on here (in the main by United fans it must be said).

His all-round game is quite formidable and even his perceived development needs of a few years back (inability to play the simply/direct ball, inability to act as a leader and spur his team on to victory, failure to get the goals tally his pace & shooting deserve) have largely been addressed.

From what I've seen of the premiership so far this season Gerrard is very well placed to scoop a number of individual awards (with his team-mate Xabi Alonso arguably matching his performance levels in a more understated manner) as he's once again playing some lovely stuff. His mix of physicality, pace, desire and no small portion of skill is a tough act to beat.

I better answer to that statement after all the abuse I've given him recently.

Gerrard has been exceptional for Liverpool when playing off Torres. He's now playing in a way that allows him make the most of his strenghs, ie shooting, being in the right place at the right time & his fantastic energy levels.

However I've never seen him as a world class central midfielder which some have stated over the years. He's hyped up to the last by the media & I feel he's up there with Ronaldo in his need to be centre of his teams attention.

As for Gerrard being player of the year & the awards you talk about, I'm not so sure he's been the best player around but certainly deserves nomination. I think Alonso is the main reason behind Liverpool's form so far, not to mention Kuyt having a big impact during the autumn. Ireland has been excellent for City as has Young & Agbonlahor for Villa and Vidic for United.

[STEVIEG]

From what I've seen of the premiership so far this season Gerrard is very well placed to scoop a number of individual awards (with his team-mate Xabi Alonso arguably matching his performance levels in a more understated manner) as he's once again playing some lovely stuff. His mix of physicality, pace, desire and no small portion of skill is a tough act to beat.

I'd agree with that

If the awards were given out now i'd have no problem with Gerrard getting player of the season (Vidic is the only other player who would contend for me and it's hard to compare them)


But we are talking of last season and that's my point about Hiddinks quotes

[STEVIEG]

Your missing the point. If Ronaldo played for Liverpool would he have scored so much or if Torres played for United would he have scored more?

You have to place a weighting alongside what each of them had to put up with and Torres had to put up with a lot more shit than Ronaldo did/does

It's impossible to compare so


This is an individual award and Ronaldo deserved it

Torres was Liverpools outstanding player last season for me and he did it internationally too

[STEVIEG]

No Naff is on the ball.

Gerrard was superb with Torres last year. Gerrard has never had a poor season for Liverpool he has always been either there best or 2nd best player.

If its just the rivalry between the 2 clubs thats stopping you from seeing and admitting that then your more blinkered than what I had you down for

It is nothing to do with it

Read my last two posts Torres was excellent last year and Gerrard is one of the best players around this season


Being Liverpools second best player is not always an amazing feat IMO but i'm simply judging Gerrard on last season

Lampard IMO was very good and helped a Chelsea team with a creaking defence, an injured front man and a dodgy manager, get very close to serious silverware

[Swoosh]

It is nothing to do with it

Read my last two posts Torres was excellent last year and Gerrard is one of the best players around this season


Being Liverpools second best player is not always an amazing feat IMO but i'm simply judging Gerrard on last season

Lampard IMO was very good and helped a Chelsea team with a creaking defence, an injured front man and a dodgy manager, get very close to serious silverware

Why was he a dodgy manager, is Scolari a dodgy manager also??

Gerrard is consistently Liverpools best player and was only bettered by Torres last season which is nothing to be ashamed of.

Philby is on the ball in saying Gerrard is criminally underrated on here and it is all United fans who do it.

RonnyB's post exemplifies the fact

[STEVIEG]

here look

Why was he a dodgy manager, is Scolari a dodgy manager also??

In this league he has proven nothing yet though he is good, as for Grant he didn't have that mentality that Jose did, nothing to be ashamed of really

Gerrard is consistently Liverpools best player and was only bettered by Torres last season which is nothing to be ashamed of.

So what?

Liverpool were way behind United and Chelsea last year

Philby is on the ball in saying Gerrard is criminally underrated on here and it is all United fans who do it.

I have him down as potential player of the year this season, so that point doesn't stand

he has been over-rated by many too in many seasons

[lionelhutz]

Last year Lampard drove Chelsea on to contention

Liverpool did fuck all despite having a top rate striker

is that somewhere in eastern europe?

[STEVIEG]

is that somewhere in eastern europe?

Yup, it's in Moscow

Fwank was there

[lionelhutz]

Yup, it's in Moscow

Fwank was there

did he have any help with the driving? did he do it on his own, the driving?

i bet he showed moral courage with the driving

[STEVIEG]

did he have any help with the driving? did he do it on his own, the driving?

i bet he showed moral courage with the driving

i think he flew alongside Ronaldo, they just flapped their wings and hit the sky

[mightyquark]

and no i have never condoned players being deliberately injured. If you were anything like a regular poster on here you would know that i have often made the unfashionable point that fair play is as important to the game of football now as it was when the corinthian casuals were a major force.



i actually only watch manyoo to see how often ronaldo gets kicked.
He's a fast bugger so it's hard to catch him but the day someone does an eduardo on him and his foot does a 360 degree turn i shall be a happy man.
.

yob!!!!

[Swoosh]

here look

Why was he a dodgy manager, is Scolari a dodgy manager also??

In this league he has proven nothing yet though he is good, as for Grant he didn't have that mentality that Jose did, nothing to be ashamed of really

Gerrard is consistently Liverpools best player and was only bettered by Torres last season which is nothing to be ashamed of.

So what?

Liverpool were way behind United and Chelsea last year

Philby is on the ball in saying Gerrard is criminally underrated on here and it is all United fans who do it.

I have him down as potential player of the year this season, so that point doesn't stand

he has been over-rated by many too in many seasons


By how much did Chelsea miss out on the title and Champions League last year?

Liverpool were a lot closer last year than they had been in years.

What I highlighted shows that your United blinkers are well and truly on

[STEVIEG]

By how much did Chelsea miss out on the title and Champions League last year?

Liverpool were a lot closer last year than they had been in years.

What I highlighted shows that your United blinkers are well and truly on

Goal difference plus the kick of the ball in the league, and a kick of the ball in the Champions league

Liverpool were out of the league race by January and beaten by Chelsea in the Champions League


What are you talking about blinkers for?

I told you gerrard is a contender for this seasons player awards and i believe Liverpool have a chance of the league and the Champions league this year????
(unlike you who reckons they haven't a hope in hell of winning the league)

Also, i have been fullsome in my praise of Torres too

Ronaldo was quite comfortably the best player in the world last season and deserved his award

What is the big problem with that statement??

Gerrard in his most hyped seasons was in a team that rarely threatened for the title, you can't balme his team-mates for everything he has often looked a headless chicken for both club and country over the years

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

Gerrard in his most hyped seasons was in a team that rarely threatened for the title, you can't balme his team-mates for everything he has often looked a headless chicken for both club and country over the years

heh heh heh
stevie your some fool

[Swoosh]

Goal difference plus the kick of the ball in the league, and a kick of the ball in the Champions league

Liverpool were out of the league race by January and beaten by Chelsea in the Champions League


What are you talking about blinkers for?

I told you gerrard is a contender for this seasons player awards and i believe Liverpool have a chance of the league and the Champions league this year????
(unlike you who reckons they haven't a hope in hell of winning the league)

Also, i have been fullsome in my praise of Torres too

Ronaldo was quite comfortably the best player in the world last season and deserved his award

What is the big problem with that statement??

Gerrard in his most hyped seasons was in a team that rarely threatened for the title, you can't balme his team-mates for everything he has often looked a headless chicken for both club and country over the years


You called Grant a dodgy manager earlier in the thread FFS.

Blame his teammates for what exactly?? The fact that most of them were shit and were being carried by him in the league and in Europe for years. Headless chicken my hole he has been one of the most consistent performers in the premiership for the last 7/8 years. The fact that he kept a Liverpool side unbelievably poor in quality and in manager to champions league placing and champions league success as well as final defeat just ememplifies the fact that he isnt over hyped. In the season they won the champions league it was pretty obvious that he was the heartbeat of the side and the go to guy with carragher minding the defence

[STEVIEG]

heh heh heh
stevie your some fool

Right back at ya mr United lost the league when they went to Saudi Arabia!

[STEVIEG]

You called Grant a dodgy manager earlier in the thread FFS.

Blame his teammates for what exactly?? The fact that most of them were shit and were being carried by him in the league and in Europe for years. Headless chicken my hole he has been one of the most consistent performers in the premiership for the last 7/8 years. The fact that he kept a Liverpool side unbelievably poor in quality and in manager to champions league placing and champions league success as well as final defeat just ememplifies the fact that he isnt over hyped. In the season they won the champions league it was pretty obvious that he was the heartbeat of the side and the go to guy with carragher minding the defence

Grant never inspired confidence

Where did Liverpool finish in the league the year they won the Champions League?

They have always been a good cup team but until NOW in the league they have been poor and he has to be a bit responsible for this

Oh yeah sure they were all crap except Gerrard

Heskey
Mascherano
Alonso
Carragher
Hypia
Reina
Agger
Finnan
Fowler
Owen
etc etc etc

all shit players carried by the wonderful Gerrard

Good point

[Swoosh]

Grant never inspired confidence

Where did Liverpool finish in the league the year they won the Champions League?

They have always been a good cup team but until NOW in the league they have been poor and he has to be a bit responsible for this

Oh yeah sure they were all crap except Gerrard

Heskey
Mascherano
Alonso
Carragher
Hypia
Reina
Agger
Finnan
Fowler
Owen
etc etc etc

all shit players carried by the wonderful Gerrard

Good point

Fowler was on the way down when Gerrard was coming through and he left for Leeds in 2001. Owen was a good player but Gerrard drove the team from the centre of midfield or wherever he was put to fight the fires.

Heskey?? Finnan?? FFS

Agger hasnt shown any sort since his 1st season.

Mascherano is a world class DM. But is the idea to keep the oppositions score as low as possible or win?

Alonso has returned to form after being poor last season.

Hyypia has been a good servant for Liverpool and got some important goals but Gerrard ran the show in midfield.

Everybody knows Liverpool finished 5th the year they won the champions leauge. Gerrard was the exceptional player in that team and he was the only one. Now he has Torres with him. He could do with another 3 of a similar vein. Only then have Liverpool a chance of a league title with Benitez in charge.

And Keane is not one of those players

[RonnyB]

Grant never inspired confidence

Where did Liverpool finish in the league the year they won the Champions League?

They have always been a good cup team but until NOW in the league they have been poor and he has to be a bit responsible for this

Oh yeah sure they were all crap except Gerrard

Heskey
Mascherano
Alonso
Carragher
Hypia
Reina
Agger
Finnan
Fowler
Owen
etc etc etc

all shit players carried by the wonderful Gerrard

Good point

Add in Hamann there too.

Jesus the Gerrard lovefest is in full swing. I still believe he's 1 of the most over-hyped players in the world. I mean if he's so good why hasnt he nailed down a regular position in the national team? The only time he ever looked like doing so was when Sven was in charge & even then Nicky Butt was played when England looked balanced.

When has he ever done the business on a regular basis for England as well? England's most balanced team in Gerrard's time was that in the '02 World Cup, he didnt even play. I go back to Liverpool finishing 5th in the league in '05 to 2nd in '06. Liverpool looked stronger in midfield with Sissoko alongside Alonso than when Gerrard played in there.

Swoosh you go on about Gerrard being Liverpool's 'go to guy' in the Champions League the year they won it. Where in gods name was he when Milan & especially Kaka were running riot in the 1st half of that final? Liverpool didnt get together in that game until Hamann came on.

So again Gerrard, a good player who has found a niché in his club team suited to maximise his abilities & is having a decent season in fairness yet has never found a consistant role for his country under 3 or 4 different coaches. Over-hyped to the hilt.

[STEVIEG]

Fowler was on the way down when Gerrard was coming through and he left for Leeds in 2001. Owen was a good player but Gerrard drove the team from the centre of midfield or wherever he was put to fight the fires.

Heskey?? Finnan?? FFS

Agger hasnt shown any sort since his 1st season.

Mascherano is a world class DM. But is the idea to keep the oppositions score as low as possible or win?

Alonso has returned to form after being poor last season.

Hyypia has been a good servant for Liverpool and got some important goals but Gerrard ran the show in midfield.

Everybody knows Liverpool finished 5th the year they won the champions leauge. Gerrard was the exceptional player in that team and he was the only one. Now he has Torres with him. He could do with another 3 of a similar vein. Only then have Liverpool a chance of a league title with Benitez in charge.

And Keane is not one of those players


I was only listing a few players off the top of my head who have not been totally shit for Liverpool

Gerrard gets the credit for being amazing in the Champions league yet he is absolved when Liverpool come an embarassing fifth?

I disagree

He has been excellent this season but last season he was nothing special and certainly not within a sniff of Ronaldos form (kicking Hiddinks point into touch)

This is boring

[Swoosh]

I never agreed with Hiddink STEVIEG.

Gerrard has been moved here there and everywhere to cover Englands deficencies and to accommodate fat Frank.

By your arguemtn RonnyB what has any English player achieved, Ferdinand and Rooney included.

The fact is Gerrard is a centre midfielder of world class. If people in the game in the know such as Mourinho, Ferguson(who said he'd love to buy him) and numerous other pro's, managers and past players recognise him as such how does your opinion that he's overrated match that? Are you seeing something not even the great Fergie can see??

You bleat on about Carrick being a great midfielder and any fan that isnt a United one will tell you that Gerrard pisses all over Carrick as a midfielder

[lionelhutz]

Jesus the Gerrard lovefest is in full swing. I still believe he's 1 of the most over-hyped players in the world. I mean if he's so good why hasnt he nailed down a regular position in the national team? The only time he ever looked like doing so was when Sven was in charge & even then Nicky Butt was played when England looked balanced.

When has he ever done the business on a regular basis for England as well? England's most balanced team in Gerrard's time was that in the '02 World Cup, he didnt even play. I go back to Liverpool finishing 5th in the league in '05 to 2nd in '06. Liverpool looked stronger in midfield with Sissoko alongside Alonso than when Gerrard played in there.
.

name an england player that has performed to the level of club performance?
problem with england is, while chelski were all conquering, management didn't have the balls to drop lampard. its not so much gerrard finding a niche at liverpool, its his style. he's that good an all round player that people expect him to be world class on the left, the middle, the right,off the front man, as the front man. and when he's not, oh he's overhyped. try playin ronaldo centre midfield and see where that will get you.

anyway, gerrard has consistently been world class in an average liverpool side over the past 6 years or so. the same manc fans who have scoffed (and often quite rightly) at the poor qulaity of the liverpool squad are now trying to use it to take a pop at one of its few truly world class players. fuckin juvenile. go to the stats, go to the fifa bullshit awards, go to heat magazine, actually watch games, and after all that if you think he's overhyped then fine but i wouldn't call you mad over it. calling hiddink mad however is just soccermomming at its best. trust me, im qualified to tell you about gerrards ability. dozens and dozens of games watched where you think, how the fuck are they going to score playing like this, and generally theres one answer. and generally he does the business. olympiacos, west ham, champion league final 05 9oh ya, he was shit in that game i forgot), various liverpool derbies just spring to mind

for utd see van horseface, giggs, scholes, beckham, tevez, etc etc. its easy to be worldclass playing alongside attacking talent like that. not so much heskey, kuyt, pennant, nunez, garcia, diouf etc etc.

[RodrigoCardoso]

I agree with his argument totally.

Ronaldo has NO DEFENSIVE QUALITIES whatsoever, surely the Worlds greatest player should have an all round game. Ronaldo is one of the most skillfill players in the world and therefore would have a claim in a "Worlds most skillfull player poll".

IMO however he is not the worlds greatest player.....far from it.

Ronaldo (Brazilian), Figo, Zidane, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Weah, Romario, Baggio, Van Basten... I could go on. Hardly known for their defensive qualities. Were they undeserving?
And Cannavaro - great defender but hardly a great attacking force. Not an all round game. Was he undeserving?
Stupid argument really.

[mightyquark]

I agree with his argument totally.

Ronaldo has NO DEFENSIVE QUALITIES whatsoever, surely the Worlds greatest player should have an all round game. Ronaldo is one of the most skillfill players in the world and therefore would have a claim in a "Worlds most skillfull player poll".

IMO however he is not the worlds greatest player.....far from it.

This is the such a worn out view on Soccer.It is the same view that English managers had on Hoddle(Holland had just beat England 2-0 at Wembley and Ruud Gullit did an after match interview laughing at the fact that Hoddle was being excluded from the English team) and Waddle(European cup winner at Marseille but sacrificed for that man who did a lot of running and tracking back Carlton Palmer...

[RonnyB]

I never agreed with Hiddink STEVIEG.

Gerrard has been moved here there and everywhere to cover Englands deficencies and to accommodate fat Frank.

By your arguemtn RonnyB what has any English player achieved, Ferdinand and Rooney included.

The fact is Gerrard is a centre midfielder of world class. If people in the game in the know such as Mourinho, Ferguson(who said he'd love to buy him) and numerous other pro's, managers and past players recognise him as such how does your opinion that he's overrated match that? Are you seeing something not even the great Fergie can see??

You bleat on about Carrick being a great midfielder and any fan that isnt a United one will tell you that Gerrard pisses all over Carrick as a midfielder

Back in '04 Lampard's England performances were as good as his Chelsea ones. Rooney became a so-called world class player on the back of Euro '04 as well. Michael Owen has consistantly scored goals for England too.

As for the bit in bold, you're off your game. Gerrard had the abiltity to be a world class player in his younger days, however now he's more effective as a 2nd striker. My Sissoko/Alonso compared to Gerrard/Alonso point with regards league position those seasons is proof of that point.

Would Fergie have loved to sign Gerrard? Yes. However I dont think Gerrard would have been as effective for United as he's been for Liverpool. For me the reason he's so key to Liverpool is due to the formation totally suiting his game. Any time Fergie has employed a formation to suit an individual its been a disaster (check Veron in 01/02 in the 4-4-1-1 or Keane in 2005's 4-3-3 effort for proof). I just think Gerrard hasnt had the discipline to become a classic box to box midfielder of a high class.

As for me saying Carrick's a great midfielder show me the quote. This time last year I was advocating a Hargreaves/Anderson combination. However having watched a lot of Spurs games in recent years I can see the difference in their midfield from 05/06 to present day. They've never been able to replace him. As for United, he's been Fergie's main midfield man in the last 2 & a half seasons. He's not spectacular & isn't a great goalscorer but is the perfect foil for United's attacking talent.

[Langer Dan]

Say what you like about Ronaldo but anyone that can't admit he was the best player in europe last year really would want to take off the blinkers...

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

why didnt we all think of that.....

http://handson.provocateuse .com/images/photos/matt_damon_05.jpg

[Langer Dan]

Nice red X,

inspired as always Mongo.

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

http://handson.provocateuse .com/images/photos/matt_damon_05.jpg

[lionelhutz]

Back in '04 Lampard's England performances were as good as his Chelsea ones. Rooney became a so-called world class player on the back of Euro '04 as well. Michael Owen has consistantly scored goals for England too..

seriously dude, 4 and a half years ago? his performances and goals have increased since then with his club but he's done fuck all with england of note

rooney has been a huge disappointment internationally since the initial 'young pele' wankfest. does that mean he's not one of the best in the world?

For me the reason he's so key to Liverpool is due to the formation totally suiting his game. .

which fuckin one?

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

seriously dude, 4 and a half years ago? his performances and goals have increased since then with his club but he's done fuck all with england of note

rooney has been a huge disappointment internationally since the initial 'young pele' wankfest. does that mean he's not one of the best in the world?



which fuckin one?


agree 100% lamps went totally off the boil with england. even got booed
and its only very recently that rooney has started doing anything of note with england. i mean for ages there peter crouch was englands best international striker.

[STEVIEG]

seriously dude, 4 and a half years ago? his performances and goals have increased since then with his club but he's done fuck all with england of note



You could say the same of Gerrard, except he was pretty crap in Euro 2004

[lionelhutz]

You could say the same of Gerrard, except he was pretty crap in Euro 2004

stevie i know its difficult, but try and reign in the prepubescent tendencies and leave ronnyb answer for himself.

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

You could say the same of Gerrard, except he was pretty crap in Euro 2004

no you couldnt. gerrard has secured his spot in the england team longside or a carrick or a hargreaves. which was more of an inidcation of him being better than lampard.

[STEVIEG]

stevie i know its difficult, but try and reign in the prepubescent tendencies and leave ronnyb answer for himself.

Yes, you've never butted in on an argument in an open forum?


Sorry for stating more facts

[STEVIEG]

no you couldnt. gerrard has secured his spot in the england team longside or a carrick or a hargreaves. which was more of an inidcation of him being better than lampard.

and how did they do?

the managers keep getting sacked


Maybe they got it wrong (obviously at the moment Gerrard is better IMO)

[RonnyB]

which fuckin one?

Him playing as a 2nd striker off Torres. Thats where he's been at his most effective.

[lionelhutz]

Yes, you've never butted in on an argument in an open forum?


Sorry for stating more facts

i dont do bumslappin stevie. you've made your own juvenile points, don't be copying others

[lionelhutz]

Him playing as a 2nd striker off Torres. Thats where he's been at his most effective.

he's playing better in tandem with another world class player? thats arguing against yourself.what about him playing right mid and scoring all those goals a few seasons ago. or playing left mid or mid mid and still managing to score all those goals. his 'driving' of liverpool to their success in a number of seasons past is comparable with roni's 'driving' of utds success last season. maybe not as pronounced but just beacuse he hasn't won a league with an average enough liverpool side doesn't mean he's a lesser player, certainly not enough to rubbish the opinion of a great football man like hiddink. its not even soccermomming. its fat soccermoms who dont bother to watch the game and get the neighbour to drop the yougfella home soccermomming

[Langer Dan]

he's playing better in tandem with another world class player? thats arguing against yourself.what about him playing right mid and scoring all those goals a few seasons ago. or playing left mid or mid mid and still managing to score all those goals. his 'driving' of liverpool to their success in a number of seasons past is comparable with roni's 'driving' of utds success last season. maybe not as pronounced but just beacuse he hasn't won a league with an average enough liverpool side doesn't mean he's a lesser player, certainly not enough to rubbish the opinion of a great football man like hiddink. its not even soccermomming. its fat soccermoms who dont bother to watch the game and get the neighbour to drop the yougfella home soccermomming

42 goals.

End of story.

[STEVIEG]

42 goals.

End of story.

Suck it up Lionel

Suck it up

[SPOGGEM]

42 goals.

End of story.

If yer goin on goals alone its bollocks.

Take Ian Rush for example great goal scorer but did fuck all else.

I'd pick Gerrard over CR any day and no I dont follow L pool.

[MonTheHoops]

Didn't see this coming. United fans stumping for their player, Liverpool doing the same for theirs. Not like this place a tall a tall.

[STEVIEG]

Didn't see this coming. United fans stumping for their player, Liverpool doing the same for theirs. Not like this place a tall a tall.

good point

Placing Gerrard ahead of Ronaldo was always likely to draw laughs though, taking their respective seasons into consideration

[STEVIEG]

If yer goin on goals alone its bollocks.

Take Ian Rush for example great goal scorer but did fuck all else.

I'd pick Gerrard over CR any day and no I dont follow L pool.

Self-pawnership of epic proportions

Are you even a Liverpool fan???


Ian Rush was a brillant player who was as good a finisher as you will see

Off the top of my head I would only rate the likes of Gerd Muller and the slightly less prolific Solskjaer as being as good as him at putting the ball away

He delivered titles for Liverpool and was good in europe too, in a team that were one of the best around


Downplaying his role is bad form, i'd expect more from a Liverpool fan

Rush was a top player

[SPOGGEM]

Self-pawnership of epic proportions

Are you even a Liverpool fan???


Ian Rush was a brillant player who was as good a finisher as you will see

Off the top of my head I would only rate the likes of Gerd Muller and the slightly less prolific Solskjaer as being as good as him at putting the ball away

He delivered titles for Liverpool and was good in europe too, in a team that were one of the best around


Downplaying his role is bad form, i'd expect more from a Liverpool fan

Rush was a top player


ian rush = legend biy

from now on I agree wit every thing Stevie says so i'll just second all Stevies opinions forthwith!!!!!

Stevie listen up.

Rush was one of the greatest finishers ever seen in England, IMO he was invaluable to Liverpool but a great all round player....not for me.

Contrast this with Shearer...now Shearer was a great palyer.

Dont put words in my mouth if you dont mind Stevie... I didnt downplay his role I stated what I thought/think of him as a player. Iam not a liverpool fan but if you wanna make out that I am crack on lad I couldn give a fuck.

[STEVIEG]

[QUOTE=SPOGGEM;247464 3]

ian rush = legend biy
/QUOTE]

I agree with this

Cunt wrecked my childhood but he was class

[RonnyB]

If yer goin on goals alone its bollocks.

Take Ian Rush for example great goal scorer but did fuck all else.

I'd pick Gerrard over CR any day and no I dont follow L pool.

So what else does Gerrard do? I'm no huge fan of Ronaldo at all as it happens, I'd have Messi at United every day of the week instead but I realise his goal threat.

Gerrard's main strength is the goals he scores. I wouldnt rate him at all if it wasnt for them. The same way I wouldnt rate Lampard or a pre 2000 Paul Scholes. The only way Gerrard can get close in class to someone like Fabregas is the fact he scores more goals.

So to sum it all up you'd pick Gerrard over Ronaldo if you take goals out of it yet goals happens to be the thing that have helped make them the players they are.

[SPOGGEM]

So what else does Gerrard do? I'm no huge fan of Ronaldo at all as it happens, I'd have Messi at United every day of the week instead but I realise his goal threat.

Gerrard's main strength is the goals he scores. I wouldnt rate him at all if it wasnt for them. The same way I wouldnt rate Lampard or a pre 2000 Paul Scholes. The only way Gerrard can get close in class to someone like Fabregas is the fact he scores more goals.

So to sum it all up you'd pick Gerrard over Ronaldo if you take goals out of it yet goals happens to be the thing that have helped make them the players they are.

I dont agree. Its definitely one of his main strenghts but he also has a higher work rate than CR which for me is crucial when assessing "great" players.

I'll put it this way I'd pick Gerrard over CR but I'd pick Messi over either of em!!

[RonnyB]

I dont agree. Its definitely one of his main strenghts but he also has a higher work rate than CR which for me is crucial when assessing "great" players.

I'll put it this way I'd pick Gerrard over CR but I'd pick Messi over either of em!!

The higher work rate thing is a load of shite. Zidane or the likes didnt have high work rates yet it didnt stop them being great players. Did Keane's high work rate make him a great player? No. He was effective due to his ability to facilitate the likes of Scholes or Giggs with their attacking instincts.

Messi wouldnt have a great work rate either I think its just he looks a busy type player. A class one at that though.

[lionelhutz]

So what else does Gerrard do? I'm no huge fan of Ronaldo at all as it happens, I'd have Messi at United every day of the week instead but I realise his goal threat.

Gerrard's main strength is the goals he scores. I wouldnt rate him at all if it wasnt for them. The same way I wouldnt rate Lampard or a pre 2000 Paul Scholes. The only way Gerrard can get close in class to someone like Fabregas is the fact he scores more goals.

So to sum it all up you'd pick Gerrard over Ronaldo if you take goals out of it yet goals happens to be the thing that have helped make them the players they are.

well he does a shit lot more than roni.

gerrard has a huge impact on the team, goals aside. the kind of effect keane used to have on utd if you ask me. sure there are the occasional hollywood passes that dont come off, and he's been rightly criticized for trying to beat teams on his own, but im sure when you have the likes of kuyt losing possession needlessly all the time you can forgive him a little for that.

as for comparing him with fabregas, well i dunno. quick check of assist stats might shed some light on that opinion

[lionelhutz]

The higher work rate thing is a load of shite. Zidane or the likes didnt have high work rates yet it didnt stop them being great players. Did Keane's high work rate make him a great player? No. He was effective due to his ability to facilitate the likes of Scholes or Giggs with their attacking instincts.

Messi wouldnt have a great work rate either I think its just he looks a busy type player. A class one at that though.

think youre wrong there

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

So what else does Gerrard do? I'm no huge fan of Ronaldo at all as it happens, I'd have Messi at United every day of the week instead but I realise his goal threat.

Gerrard's main strength is the goals he scores. I wouldnt rate him at all if it wasnt for them. The same way I wouldnt rate Lampard or a pre 2000 Paul Scholes. The only way Gerrard can get close in class to someone like Fabregas is the fact he scores more goals.

So to sum it all up you'd pick Gerrard over Ronaldo if you take goals out of it yet goals happens to be the thing that have helped make them the players they are.

i think your way off the wall here.
gerrard is a class midfielder. liverpool play to his strengths so they use 2 of the best holding/defensive midfielders in the game to leave gerrard play a total free role. In big games gerrards realises that he often has to play more defensively to help out and often does. but in normal games hes allowed play and go where he likes.

He is far more of a team player than ronaldo. hes a better passer. better tackler. better engine. and to be honest has a better influence on the game.


would i pick gerrard ahead of ronaldo? it depends on the team im trying to fit him into. into utds team? not a chance. into liverpools team? everytime.
again i compare this to ruud and henry. henry being gerrard and ruud being ronaldo.

one brings way more to the team game and overall play. the other brings a more direct way like. But generally theyll end up with similar results.


Ronaldo had a freak season. he will get back around the 20 mark in future seasons. something similar enough to gerrard but gerrard does way more for the team and any team (that need him to).

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

Messi wouldnt have a great work rate either I think its just he looks a busy type player.

hit that in a nut shell. messi spends 75% of games standing still and recovering from his 25% of running, dribbling like a fuckin lunatic.

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

as for comparing him with fabregas, well i dunno. quick check of assist stats might shed some light on that opinion


great article here.
FERNANDO TORRES is Liverpool's undoubted Player of the Season for the campaign just about to end.
Indeed, but for a remarkable run of form from Cristiano Ronaldo he may even have been the Footballer of the Year.
But when you analyse the stats for 2007/08, one figure jumps out and hits you with all the force of a John Arne Riise volley.
Steven Gerrard is still the man Liverpool rely on the most.
The Reds skipper has scored 21 times this season, helped by manager Rafa Benitez's decision to use him in a more advanced attacking role.
But it's Gerrard's assists which are truly remarkable.
In all competitions this season, Liverpool's captain has directly created 23 goals. That's twice as many as anyone else at Anfield. And added to the goals he has scored, that makes him responsible for more than half his side's goals output in 2007/08.
Not bad for a man many reckon has been overshadowed by the Spanish striker.







fabregas
13 goals 24 assists.



oh and ronnie
42 goals 8 assists

[STEVIEG]

and where did it get them

nowhere

Ronaldo was a FAR BIGGER INFLUENCE as his goals helped his team actually contend and win things


Scoring and assisting against the likes of Bekistas is great when you are beating nobodies 8-0 but Ronaldo did it in the big games and the crucial ones last year

Hiddink isn't the only one talking shit in fairness though, i'll give him that:)

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

and where did it get them
nowhere
Ronaldo was a FAR BIGGER INFLUENCE as his goals helped his team actually contend and win things
Scoring and assisting against the likes of Bekistas is great when you are beating nobodies 8-0 but Ronaldo did it in the big games and the crucial ones last year
Hiddink isn't the only one talking shit in fairness though, i'll give him that:)


stevie,

are you 12. liverpool got nowhere because they had a rubbish team. bar a few stars, reina, torres, mascherano & carragher.

Ronaldo was playing up front with 30m rooney & 30m tevez.
he had 18m hargreaves, 18m carrick & 18m anderson covering his lack of work rate.

let alone a 30m central defender shoring up the defence.

as well as 2 of the greatest premiership players of all time helping out too in giggs & scholes.



Ronaldo in the liverpool team would have won fuck all.
gerrard in the utd team would have won what they won.
grow up ffs.



fabregas would waltz into utds starting 11. yet where did it get him playing for arsenal last year? nowhere.
ffs, seriously grow up. were talking about two players who had great seasons. you cant even accept gerrard played better than lamps despite it being recognised by most pundits, fantasy teams, teams of the year etc.

[STEVIEG]

stevie,

are you 12. liverpool got nowhere because they had a rubbish team. bar a few stars, reina, torres, mascherano & carragher.



According to many, including you, United were not that great last year

you had them written off with a few months to go in the league

Doesn't wash at all

Keep trying to create the myth that Gerrard was immense last year

He wasn't

Where was he in the big games?

[STEVIEG]

Where was he in the big games?



Get googling


Maybe Shoot or some other defunt magazine had him MOTM after the drubbing at Old Trafford?


or maybe not

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

According to many, including you, United were not that great last year


show me......utd played great football last year.
i think your thinking of the season before when i said reading played football better than them.


sure i wound ye up with the first time in saudia arabia welcome in saudia arabia. but id like to see my comments about utd not being that great,


as for gerrard.....only you cant seem to grasp him getting 23 assists & 21 goals and being liverpools second best player and nearly everybodies pick for a central midfield position in a team of the year, had a great year. only you seem to be saying lampard was better than him which goes against nearly every dream team, fantasy football stat, actual stat and general opinion out there.


only you seem to think that the best right back in the premiership won the league and european cup. only you seem to think the best keeper in the premiership won the league and european cup. only you seem to think the best striker in the premiership won the league and european cup last year.







recognise stevie. recognise....

[lionelhutz]

great article here.
FERNANDO TORRES is Liverpool's undoubted Player of the Season for the campaign just about to end.
Indeed, but for a remarkable run of form from Cristiano Ronaldo he may even have been the Footballer of the Year.
But when you analyse the stats for 2007/08, one figure jumps out and hits you with all the force of a John Arne Riise volley.
Steven Gerrard is still the man Liverpool rely on the most.
The Reds skipper has scored 21 times this season, helped by manager Rafa Benitez's decision to use him in a more advanced attacking role.
But it's Gerrard's assists which are truly remarkable.
In all competitions this season, Liverpool's captain has directly created 23 goals. That's twice as many as anyone else at Anfield. And added to the goals he has scored, that makes him responsible for more than half his side's goals output in 2007/08.
Not bad for a man many reckon has been overshadowed by the Spanish striker.







fabregas
13 goals 24 assists.



oh and ronnie
42 goals 8 assists

fab has 24 assists? well himself and stevie me are about level so.

as for roni, i thought he only had 7 assists, 3 of them in the one game against villa towards the end of the season?

[lionelhutz]

and where did it get them

nowhere

Ronaldo was a FAR BIGGER INFLUENCE as his goals helped his team actually contend and win things



oh ffs!!!!

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

oh ffs!!!!

that was my reaction too.
i dont even think the kids i train would believe that or even pull a line like that.
thats from the book of fattomism or the works of liam2mes.

[STEVIEG]

sure i wound ye up with the first time in saudia arabia welcome in saudia arabia. but id like to see my comments about utd not being that great,


No you got self-pawned yet again

hit me with those Gerrard big game stats from last season ill be back at 4pm

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

fab has 24 assists? well himself and stevie me are about level so.

http://soccernet.espn.go.co m/players/stats?id=38886&cc=5739
this site claims its only 23. but still were in the same ball park.

[STEVIEG]

oh ffs!!!!

good point well made


Gerrard did help his team score 8 against some no-hopers when most top teams had actually qualified for the second stage though

ill give him that

he was nowhere against United and co though

nowhere

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

No you got self-pawned yet again

hit me with those Gerrard big game stats from last season ill be back at 4pm

stevie,
your now calling self pwnerships like liam2me does.
ive asked for my comments where i was going on about utd not being that great.

[Lewis Hamiltons Hat]

good point well made


Gerrard did help his team score 8 against some no-hopers when most top teams had actually qualified for the second stage though

ill give him that

he was nowhere against United and co though

nowhere

by stevie
aged 5

[STEVIEG]

ive asked for my comments where i was going on about utd not being that great.

Check the Arsenal thread

and you have the nerve to be banging on about giggs and Scholes in this thread, when you, like many more wrote them off after they came off against Spurs last year

tut tut

[STEVIEG]

So back to Hiddink




His knock out record in the Champions League/European Cup doesn't exactly inspire really (loads of draws and a few wins)

I know his side was robbed and everything and I know he has done well with crap teams but when it comes to the actual winning of big big honours (not Dutch domestic ones) he has fallen a bit short (They should have been about 3 up at least last night and not hanging on at the end)


With the media falling all over themselves in their worship of such a tactical genius, and let's face it, he knows his stuff, will we find a scenario where he is questioned and even criticised now?

After his russian team got owned by spain last summer he seemed to get away with it so i doubt it

His failures, like at Madrid, are always swept under the carpet

This wasn't his team though so i won't be too critical of last night

[Philby]

I know his side was robbed and everything and I know he has done well with crap teams but when it comes to the actual winning of big big honours (not Dutch domestic ones) he has fallen a bit short (They should have been about 3 up at least last night and not hanging on at the end)

You can only do so much as a manager.

If you set your team up in the right way and they create enough chances it's down to the players on the field to take those chances.

Drogba slotting home a chance to make it 2-0 doesn't make Hiddink a genius and neither does a couple of his players failing to make chances count make him a chump.

Personally I quite like him. He seems like the kind of manager that players want to play well for and impress. Almost above all else that is the one quality that unites top quality managers.

He took over a Chelsea side who were spiralling badly and got them back on track in the league (they are at least in touching distance of United and Liverpool when it looked like they would fade away badly) and were a 93rd minute goal away from a CL final.

All in all he has done well to steady a rocking ship and I for one, as a Liverpool fan, would prefer if he didn't stay on as permanent Chelsea manager because Chelsea with a rejuvenated Drogba, a marauding Essien and a canny manager at the helm are a big threat for next year.

[STEVIEG]

I'm sure Avram Grant agrees



another manager with dignity and class, despite working for Mr A and Kenyon


How is the dream coming along this morning Mr Abramovich/Mr Kenyon?


Fergie was right, Chelsea are too old

Hiddink was right, they won't have too many more chances now

[Philby]

How is the dream coming along this morning Mr Abramovich/Mr Kenyon?

If nothing else it was enjoyable to see Roman's plaything denied the ultimate prize, esp in such dramatic circumstances.

Fergie was right, Chelsea are too old

I don't think Chelsea's age denied them a place in the final tbh and some of the older players in that side are some of its highest performers.

Hiddink was right, they won't have too many more chances now

Chelsea will be a force in the Premier League and in Europe next season. No doubt.

[STEVIEG]

Time is running out


The team that was assembled to be one of the great teams is suddenly looking more and more like a European nearly man team who won a couple of leagues when the Premierships dominant team took a year or two to re-build, and when the next most dominant team went into a slight decline for a few years

If Chelsea don't win one of them next year Roman should try and buy Barca, Liverpool, Arsenal, United, Madrid or someone:)

[Philby]

Time is running out

The team that was assembled to be one of the great teams is suddenly looking more and more like a European nearly man team who won a couple of leagues when the Premierships dominant team took a year or two to re-build, and when the next most dominant team went into a slight decline for a few years

Huge small-time begrudgery there Stevie,

Chelsea came on the scene and blew everyone away, setting a new benchmark for league Champions that United haven't reached since.

Talk of Chelsea only capitalising on United re-building is an absolute joke.

They've had the most stable managerial set-up in all 4 leagues ffs

[STEVIEG]

Chelsea came on the scene and blew everyone away,

Did they?

Cause the last time i checked they hadn't one Europes biggest competition

[STEVIEG]

They've had the most stable managerial set-up in all 4 leagues ffs

How many managers have they had since 2004?

[POL]

Huge small-time begrudgery there Stevie,

Chelsea came on the scene and blew everyone away, setting a new benchmark for league Champions that United haven't reached since.

Talk of Chelsea only capitalising on United re-building is an absolute joke.

They've had the most stable managerial set-up in all 4 leagues ffstypical manyooer in action

[STEVIEG]

, setting a new benchmark for league Champions that United haven't reached since.


United won the league and defended it by adding the Champions Legaue


United 2007/2008 > Chelsea 2005/2006


FACT

[STEVIEG]

typical manyooer in action

football thread

http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showpost.php?p=26586 26&postcount=5771

must keep out

[POL]

football thread

http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showpost.php?p=26586 26&postcount=5771

must keep out
pwned again stevie, will you ever learn?

[jimmy magee]

You can only do so much as a manager.

If you set your team up in the right way and they create enough chances it's down to the players on the field to take those chances.

.

Philby for fuck sake. Have you no morals? were you around for Liverpool's glory days??

[STEVIEG]

pwned again stevie, will you ever learn?

It's not the first time you've self-pawned yourself by jumping on the Wenga-bus!

[Philby]

Philby for fuck sake. Have you no morals? were you around for Liverpool's glory days??

Before you go off on a rant I was talking in general terms, not about last night's game.

I was playing a game myself so only caught the last 1/2. Couldn't comment on Chelsea's tactics prior to the hour mark.

[Philby]

Did they?

Cause the last time i checked they hadn't one Europes biggest competition

You were demeaning Chelsea's two league triumphs, that's what I'm commenting on. Nothing else.

I dislike Chelsea more than most but the record needed to be set straight on that front.

Chelsea's points totals of 95 & 91 points hadn't been bettered in over a decade...they strangled the life out of the their challengers and won both leagues at a canter.

No amount of oddly timed revisionism should cloud over that fact.

[STEVIEG]

You were demeaning Chelsea's two league triumphs, that's what I'm commenting on. Nothing else.

I dislike Chelsea more than most but the record needed to be set straight on that front.

Chelsea's points totals of 95 & 91 points hadn't been bettered in over a decade...they strangled the life out of the their challengers and won both leagues at a canter.

No amount of oddly timed revisionism should cloud over that fact.

I'm talking about their legacy in years to come

A Notts Forest with one extra title and a few bob

and less European glory

Far less

[Philby]

I'm talking about their legacy in years to come

A Notts Forest with one extra title and a few bob

and less European glory

Far less

By all means comment on that, and I largely agree with you on the European front.

But I think deep down you do recognise that Chelsea absolutely steamrolled the likes of United, Arsenal and Liverpool over the course of those two league campaigns.

By no means did they tip-toe in and sneak those titles when United and Arsenal had taken their eyes off the ball. Anything but...

[STEVIEG]

By all means comment on that, and I largely agree with you on the European front.

But I think deep down you do recognise that Chelsea absolutely steamrolled the likes of United, Arsenal and Liverpool over the course of those two league campaigns.

By no means did they tip-toe in and sneak those titles when United and Arsenal had taken their eyes off the ball. Anything but...

They won the leagues fairly and squarely


When United and Arsenal were rebuilding



As i said (The margin is irrelevant, the United team of 2001 won the league effectively in February but were not that great)




We were told they were a great team


They were not



No better than Notts Forest back in the late 70s
a load of good Liverpool teams in the 70s and 80s were better
At least 4 United teams since have been as good or better (93/94) (96/97) (99/00/01) (07/08/09)

They were a good team who fell off IMO (unless they prove me wrong next year, but i doubt it)

[Philby]

They won the leagues fairly and squarely

When United and Arsenal were rebuilding


What were these sudden cataclysmic events that forced United into needing to re-build and cease to be competitive for 3 seasons btw?

[STEVIEG]

What were these sudden cataclysmic events that forced United into needing to re-build and cease to be competitive for 3 seasons btw?



It's hard to stay on top for 10/15 years

Teams have to rebuild every so often

You should know that more than everyone




United made some bad buys in 2002-2005 and lost a lot of the core of their better teams and had to re-build

and they did do it in fairness

[daithi81]

What were these sudden cataclysmic events that forced United into needing to re-build and cease to be competitive for 3 seasons btw?

Munich.

[STEVIEG]

Looks like the over-rated Hiddink will be watching the World Cup on TV

Hope Ronaldo waves at him:)

[STEVIEG]

So back to Hiddink




His knock out record in the Champions League/European Cup doesn't exactly inspire really (loads of draws and a few wins)

I know his side was robbed and everything and I know he has done well with crap teams but when it comes to the actual winning of big big honours (not Dutch domestic ones) he has fallen a bit short (They should have been about 3 up at least last night and not hanging on at the end)


With the media falling all over themselves in their worship of such a tactical genius, and let's face it, he knows his stuff, will we find a scenario where he is questioned and even criticised now?

After his russian team got owned by spain last summer he seemed to get away with it so i doubt it

His failures, like at Madrid, are always swept under the carpet



Bump

[STEVIEG]

Turkey



another fat contract thought he might have more ambition but fair enough i suppose

[Wrong Number]

Turkey



another fat contract thought he might have more ambition but fair enough i suppose

I thought you were referring to Hiddink! :D

He is a bit of a turkey!

[REMIMUFC]

at least hes away from Russia which is great for us

[xvis]

Hiddink's getting on. Any club rumours should have been taken with a pinch of salt.

[Lee Bushwacker]

Hiddink's getting on. Any club rumours should have been taken with a pinch of salt.

:)
Has he been mentioned in relation to Cork City just in case R.C. gets the boot?

[STEVIEG]

He is a bit of a turkey!

Uncanny!

[marco 2005]

Well, before he even starts working with Turkey, he's going to coach Ivory Coast at the WC. Halilhodzic just got sacked by the IC federation.....

A but surprising as he only lost 1 game in 24

[STEVIEG]

Turkey



another fat contract thought he might have more ambition but fair enough i suppose

and another bottling episode


living off the past

one of the most over-rated people in football there are already reports of Chelsea possibly instigating a coup by getting him back

It's rare you the media so fawning with someone