Support for government at an alltime low.

[Langer Dan]

http://www.irishtimes.com/homepage/images/1226408634936.jpg




PUBLIC SUPPORT for the Government, the Taoiseach and Fianna Fáil has collapsed to the lowest level recorded since Irish Times polling began more than a quarter of a century ago, according to the latest Irish Times /TNS mrbi poll.

Satisfaction with the Government has dropped to a record low of 18 per cent, a drop of 28 points since the last Irish Times poll in June, while satisfaction with Taoiseach Brian Cowen has fallen to 26 per cent, a drop of 21 points.

The level of dissatisfaction with the Government is now a massive 76 per cent, while 61 per cent of people are dissatisfied with the way Mr Cowen is doing his job.

The precipitous slide in the Government's fortunes comes after a month of controversy over the Budget on a range of issues including medical cards for the over-70s, education cuts and the postponement of a planned cervical cancer vaccination programme.

By contrast the poll not only puts Fine Gael ahead of Fianna Fáil for the first time ever in an Irish Times poll, but the main Opposition party has a substantial seven-point lead.

The adjusted figures for party support, compared with the last Irish Times poll in June are: Fianna Fáil, 27 per cent (down 15 points); Fine Gael, 34 per cent (up 11 points); Labour, 14 per cent (down 1 point); Sinn Féin, 8 per cent (no change); Green Party, 4 per cent (down 1 point); and Independents/others, 13 per cent (up 6 points).

The poll was conducted last Monday and Tuesday among a representative sample of 1,000 voters in face-to-face interviews at 100 sampling points in all 43 constituencies. The margin of error is 3 per cent.

The poll was conducted as the controversy over the Budget continued along with the run-up to the Dáil vote on the decision to defer the cervical cancer vaccination programme.

The core vote for the parties compared with the last Irish Times poll is: Fianna Fáil, 25 per cent (down 14 points); Fine Gael, 25 per cent (up 8 points); Labour, 10 per cent (down 1 point); Sinn Féin, 7 per cent (down 1 point); Greens, 3 per cent (down 1 point); Independents/others, 8 per cent (up 3 points); and undecided voters 22 per cent (up 6 points).

In terms of satisfaction ratings, the Fine Gael leader, Enda Kenny, is ahead of Brian Cowen for the first time with a rating of 33 per cent (down 2 points), while Labour leader Eamon Gilmore is up 3 points to 38 per cent.

The Green Party leader, John Gormley, has seen a substantial dip in his satisfaction rating to 28 per cent (down 12 points) while Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams is on 33 per cent (down 12 points). The satisfaction rating of all the party leaders, with the exception of Mr Gilmore, has fallen since June.

A striking feature of the poll is that the bulk of those who have deserted Fianna Fáil have gone into the Fine Gael camp, helping to make it the biggest party in an Irish Times /mrbi poll for the first time. Fine Gael is now ahead of Fianna Fáil in Dublin and the rest of Leinster.

In class terms, Fine Gael has made big inroads among middle class voters where it is now well ahead of Fianna Fáil. The party also has a substantial lead among farmers and is behind Fianna Fáil only among the less well-off voters, but it has made big gains in this category as well.

Fianna Fáil support has slumped in Dublin and it is now behind Labour as well as Fine Gael in the capital.

Fianna Fáil's worst performance is among better-off voters, where its support has more than halved since June. Despite the furore over the medical cards for the over-70s, Fianna Fáil does best among over-65s of all age categories.

The other big beneficiary of the decline in Fianna Fáil support is the Independent/other group which is up five points. This group now includes people still declaring themselves PDs since the decision to wind up the party at the weekend.

Another explanation for the increase may be the high profile of Independent TDs such as Finian McGrath and Michael Lowry during the Budget controversy.

The Labour Party drop of one point to 14 per cent represents a marginal decrease.

However, Mr Gilmore is now the most popular party leader. Labour has held almost all the ground it gained in polls this year compared with its general election vote last year of 10 per cent.

The drop in support for the Green Party to 4 per cent, accompanied by the drop of 12 per cent in satisfaction with Mr Gormley, indicates that the party is now beginning to feel the pressure of its involvement in a coalition.

It is striking that Green Party voters are much more satisfied with Mr Kenny than Mr Cowen. Some 56 per cent of them expressed dissatisfaction with the way the Taoiseach was doing his job. Sinn Féin has held its 8 per cent support level but has failed to make gains at Fianna Fáil's expense. The decline in the satisfaction rating of Mr Adams may account for that failure.

[Lamps]

This blunderbuss cowen needs to jack it in.

The weakest and most vulnerable(FF MO or not) were attacked first during the recession, this is why people are pissed off.

[Arcadia]

I would'nt put this guy in charge of a buffet nevermind Ireland Inc.

[Actin The Sham]

Cowen, Mary Coughlan, and Brian Lenihan are all fatally damaged now, the time is right for a heave against Cowen.

Micheal Martin has been very quiet over the past few weeks. I'd say that Dermot Ahern or Micheal Martin are sounding out supporters about a move for the leadership.

By surrounding himself with supporters Cowen has ensured that they are all now tarnished, and he has isolated himself within the wider party, many of whom are still smarting about the way Bertie annointed his successor.

That is why FF has been less than supportive of it's leadership lately.


They are a year and a half into government, they have no need to go to the country, and they have the greens exactly where they want them.

The FF heavyweights are sharpening their knives right now in preparation for a heave they'll probably wait and let Cowen stew for another while before nailing him in the new year.

[Eoin]

I reckon you could be right ATS. I can't see Cowen lasting much longer. However, if they do move then it could lead to a split in the party, and FG/Labour may be able to convince the greens and a few independents to support them in forming a government.

Otherwise it could be an election next year I reckon.

[Arcadia]

Coughlan as Tanaiste was a gross error for a start and my help Aherne / Martin in a putsch.


All jokes aside but they are actually hopeless.

Look how Gordon Brown is getting out of a mess in the UK for example.

[Actin The Sham]

I reckon you could be right ATS. I can't see Cowen lasting much longer. However, if they do move then it could lead to a split in the party, and FG/Labour may be able to convince the greens and a few independents to support them in forming a government.

Otherwise it could be an election next year I reckon.

One more poll result like today's and Cowen is gone. And the fact that Brian Lenihan was promoted to finance minister in an attempt to foster a successor was political suicide. The old adage "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" was lost on Cowen when he surrounded himself with his friends.

Now he is stuck, and his close supporters, (Coughlan has been shown up as irrelevant, Lenihan irreparably damaged himself with his budget and "call to patriotic duty," and Harney is now an independent,) are all equally damaged.

The field is opening up, and as the last thing that FF backbenchers will want is a general election they will look to a replacement leader elected by the parliamentary party following a leadership contest to rebuild support in the opinion polls.

Micheal Martin is smirking into his cornflakes this morning as he reads these latest poll findings.

[Eoin]

Coughlan as Tanaiste was a gross error for a start and my help Aherne / Martin in a putsch.


All jokes aside but they are actually hopeless.

Look how Gordon Brown is getting out of a mess in the UK for example.

Coughlan is a joke alright. Can't stand her.

[Actin The Sham]

Coughlan as Tanaiste was a gross error for a start and my help Aherne / Martin in a putsch.


All jokes aside but they are actually hopeless.

Look how Gordon Brown is getting out of a mess in the UK for example.


Is it the Chinese who have one word for both "crisis" and "opportunity?"


Micheal Martin has been around the block and is ripe for the position. As to whether he will get it or not is another thing. FF may think that they need someone from Dublin, but the Lenihans are irreparably damaged now what with the Nazi salute and the call to patriotic duty fiasco.

And it's too early for a Haughey. Maybe Dermot Ahern would be a good compromise candidate.

[Arcadia]

Fine Gael / Labour Coalition with support from 2 or 3 Independents if Fine Gael can peform well in opposition and come up with good proposals to tackle the public sector,reduce taxes somehow and get the economy moving.

Coughlan trying to convince Irish shoppers to avoid trips to Norn iron to get cheaper shopping as they could buy Irish made products cheaper north of the border as sterling slides against the Euro.

[jd26]

There's a nasty figure there and that's the number of people who would vote for independents/others.

While it now includes people who said they would vote PD when the poll was taken, that can't acount for the level of the rise.

Since, most people have no idea which independents would stand in their constituency, that's the bluffers answer. and I think a lot of them could be shy Fianna Failers i.e. people who would vote Fianna Fail, but won't admit it.

It's certainly bad for Fianna Fail, even if you give them that 6% back, but we are far from seeing the back of them.

[Lamps]

The FF heavyweights are sharpening their knives right now in preparation for a heave they'll probably wait and let Cowen stew for another while before nailing him in the new year.

Politically that makes a lot of sense. Michael and Dermot Ahern are seen to be good decent men for the most part and I think they would revive the party in the polls. Cowen is hugely dislikeable

[Actin The Sham]

Fine Gael / Labour Coalition with support from 2 or 3 Independents if Fine Gael can peform well in opposition and come up with good proposals to tackle the public sector,reduce taxes somehow and get the economy moving.

Coughlan trying to convince Irish shoppers to avoid trips to Norn iron to get cheaper shopping as they could buy Irish made products cheaper north of the border as sterling slides against the Euro.

There won't be an election until 2012. The greens would be off their game to break up the coalition now.

[Lamps]

Watching the US election stuff a few weeks back, an interviewer remarked to Obama that he'd nearly be better off not winning such was the steaming pile of shit he was walking into. He countered by saying that, on the contrary, he was a public servant and that there was no better time to serve his country and that he would relish it. Whether he truly meant it or not is moot, I couldn't help thinking of lenihan and cowen's recent remarks about governing in times of recession.

[Actin The Sham]

Watching the US election stuff a few weeks back, an interviewer remarked to Obama that he'd nearly be better off not winning such was the steaming pile of shit he was walking into. He countered by saying that, on the contrary, he was a public servant and that there was no better time to serve his country and that he would relish it. Whether he truly meant it or not is moot, I couldn't help thinking of lenihan and cowen's recent remarks about governing in times of recession.

I watched that Michael Moore movie "Sicko" the other night.

It made me feel good about Ireland.

[Lamps]

I watched that Michael Moore movie "Sicko" the other night.

It made me feel good about Ireland.

I saw Brian Cowen meeting a fellow head of state with his flap down and curry stains on his shirt, swings and roundabouts

[Langer Dan]

I saw Brian Cowen meeting a fellow head of state with his flap down and curry stains on his shirt, swings and roundabouts

He's a national embarrassment.

His record as finance minister spoke volumes about how shambolic his tenure as taoiseach of the country was going to be.

The sooner this bluffer is ousted the better.
In hard times moreso than anything else you need strong leadership, all we have is a rudderless boat.

[corkoniense]

Politically that makes a lot of sense. Michael and Dermot Ahern are seen to be good decent men for the most part and I think they would revive the party in the polls. Cowen is hugely dislikeable

Dermot Ahern is one the biggest liars in FF, and that's saying something. His response the Shane Geoghegan murder in the Dail was, "whether we like it or not, we have a constitution......" I mean Jesus!!

He's also the man who went to London on behalf of Bertie to see if he could find anything on Ray Burke. Came home saying the man is clean. Burke later went to jail for a criminal offence. Dermot Ahern is a scheming, self righteous scumbag of the worst kind.

Michael Ahern is a gobshite from east cork, and whose councillor brother is up to his neck in corruption as well.

Check this out

http://www.village.ie/sample/sample/controversial_rezoni ngs_in_cork/

[Lamps]

Dermot Ahern is one the biggest liars in FF, and that's saying something. His response the Shane Geoghegan murder in the Dail was, "whether we like it or not, we have a constitution......" I mean Jesus!!

He's also the man who went to London on behalf of Bertie to see if he could find anything on Ray Burke. Came home saying the man is clean. Burke later went to jail for a criminal offence. Dermot Ahern is a scheming, self righteous scumbag of the worst kind.

Michael Ahern is a gobshite from east cork, and whose councillor brother is up to his neck in corruption as well.

Check this out

http://www.village.ie/sample/sample/controversial_rezoni ngs_in_cork/

Apologies, I was talking about Micheál Martin. Didn't know that about Ahern

[corkoniense]

Fair enough lamps. Michael Martin is defo the man to come out of this with the least damage, but whether that's a good thing is debatable. He's a likeable fella, but is an incredibly weak willed individual. Will say whatever it takes, possibly one of the biggest bluffers in FF and its greatest mangler (apologies!) of the English language after Cowen. It's why foreign affairs suits him: ie, "the Government will take all the best proactive steps in a dynamic fashion going forward into the future" kinda nonsense.

Remember Martin is responsible first and foremost for the medical cards fiasco, having negotiated the insane deal with the IMO in 2002 (president James Reilly, now FG spokesperson on health!), and he should have resigned over the Nursing Homes scandal, but of course accountability and FF are mutually exclusive...

[jd26]

Martin has forgotten the #1 rule in Irish politics, which is to take care of your own back yard.

Bertie Ahern understood it as does Cowen and Dermot Ahern.

On that basis, we'll probably see Willie O'Dea as Fianna Fail leader :-(

[corkoniense]

Martin has forgotten the #1 rule in Irish politics, which is to take care of your own back yard.

Bertie Ahern understood it as does Cowen and Dermot Ahern.

On that basis, we'll probably see Willie O'Dea as Fianna Fail leader :-(

Why do you say that about Martin? Open any good news story on the evening echo and you'll see it announced by Martin, regardless of whether it's his brief or not.

Think in the current climate the public are looking for someone with national resonance, and the only national resonance Willie O Dea provides is that he is Minister for Limerick and nothing else.

[jd26]

Cork Airport
Cork Docklands
South Ring flyovers
Cork Bus System

The list of areas where Cork has been shafted by central government over the last few years is endless. Did you know Transport 21 had a bigger budget for advertising than it did for public transport in Cork?

People remembered that performance and its why Fianna Fail didn't get a third seat last time out. And failing to secure a third seat will have weakened his position inside Fianna Fail substantially.

[corkoniense]

Cork Airport
Cork Docklands
South Ring flyovers
Cork Bus System

The list of areas where Cork has been shafted by central government over the last few years is endless. Did you know Transport 21 had a bigger budget for advertising than it did for public transport in Cork?

People remembered that performance and its why Fianna Fail didn't get a third seat last time out. And failing to secure a third seat will have weakened his position inside Fianna Fail substantially.

Again, fair enough. But he managed to say nothing and stay out of things, which was probably the best he could do in the circumstances. The bould wille went public with his opposition to AerLingus decision to remove Shannon heathrow, yet how many people were fooled in Limerick?

Besides, Willie failed to bring in two FFers as well, even though he got the highest personal tally after Cowen in laois offaly.