Ireland Team V Canada

[Brad]

Ireland Team V Canada, GUINNESS Series 2008, Thomond Park, Saturday November 8th, 17:15

15 – Keith Earls* (Young Munster/Munster)

14 – Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)

13 – Brian O’Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) Captain

12 – Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)

11 – Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)

10 – Ronan O’Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)

9 – Eoin Reddan (Wasps)

1 – Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)

2 – Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)

3 – Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)

4 – Donncha O’Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)

5 – Paul O’Connell (Young Munster/Munster)

6 – Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)

7 – Shane Jennings (St.Mary’s College/Leinster)

8 – Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements to be selected from the following 8:

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster), John Hayes (Bruff/Munster), Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon/Ulster), Alan Quinlan (Shannon/Munster), David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster), Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster), Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)

Has he dropped John Hayes (having the season of his life) for Tony Buckley?

Can't believe he could not find a starting place for Quinlan or Wallace.

Maybe he is keeping some guys in reserve for NZ game? What do you think?

[Rebel Yell]

Ireland Team V Canada, GUINNESS Series 2008, Thomond Park, Saturday November 8th, 17:15

15 – Keith Earls* (Young Munster/Munster)

14 – Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)

13 – Brian O’Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) Captain

12 – Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)

11 – Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)

10 – Ronan O’Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)

9 – Eoin Reddan (Wasps)

1 – Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)

2 – Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)

3 – Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)

4 – Donncha O’Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)

5 – Paul O’Connell (Young Munster/Munster)

6 – Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)

7 – Shane Jennings (St.Mary’s College/Leinster)

8 – Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements to be selected from the following 8:

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster), John Hayes (Bruff/Munster), Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon/Ulster), Alan Quinlan (Shannon/Munster), David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster), Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster), Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)

Has he dropped John Hayes (having the season of his life) for Tony Buckley?

Can't believe he could not find a starting place for Quinlan or Wallace.

Maybe he is keeping some guys in reserve for NZ game? What do you think?

Would not have expected the Bull to start anyway...needs to be trying out fellas like Buckley and Ross in starting roles in these games anyway...i would have thrown a few more fringe players in but i suppose he is mindful of the fact he needs to have a fairly settled team with some recent game time together also...

[HappyMonday83]

I'd have given sexton a game against canada.

[Eoin]

Ireland Team V Canada, GUINNESS Series 2008, Thomond Park, Saturday November 8th, 17:15

15 – Keith Earls* (Young Munster/Munster)

14 – Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)

13 – Brian O’Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) Captain

12 – Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)

11 – Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)

10 – Ronan O’Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)

9 – Eoin Reddan (Wasps)

1 – Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)

2 – Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)

3 – Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)

4 – Donncha O’Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)

5 – Paul O’Connell (Young Munster/Munster)

6 – Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)

7 – Shane Jennings (St.Mary’s College/Leinster)

8 – Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements to be selected from the following 8:

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster), John Hayes (Bruff/Munster), Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon/Ulster), Alan Quinlan (Shannon/Munster), David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster), Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster), Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)

Has he dropped John Hayes (having the season of his life) for Tony Buckley?

Can't believe he could not find a starting place for Quinlan or Wallace.

Maybe he is keeping some guys in reserve for NZ game? What do you think?

Perfect team for this match IMO. John Hayes needs to be kept in reserve for the big games. Quinlan and Wallace will probably play against NZ and/or Argentina unless one of the 3 lads above pulls somethign spectacular out on saturday.

Delighted to see Fitzgerald, Earls and Kearney in there. These 3 lads are the most exciting players to emerge in this country since BOD and have the potential to be world class.

[Eoin]

I'd have given sexton a game against canada.

I'd at least like to see him on the bench. Wallace just doesn't cut the mustard IMO, and a game like this would give Sexton a nice taste of test rugby.

[Brad]

I suppose giving Hayes a rest is a good idea.

Bit disappointed over Wallace/Quinlan but maybe he is resting them too.

I hope this is not his complete first choice starting 15.

Don't think Sexton or Wallace are up to it at number ten really.

Anyone think Kidney is playing a bit of inter-provincial politics??? Seems like he is keeping everyone happy there.

[HappyMonday83]

I'd at least like to see him on the bench. Wallace just doesn't cut the mustard IMO, and a game like this would give Sexton a nice taste of test rugby.

He'd have been well able to cope with canada and as the only other OH in ireland (with respect to keatley) he need some game time.

[rockyoc]

The team I would have expected really. I think we might see Earls and KEarney switching during the game.

Definately would have liked to see Sexton at least on the bench to get some game time at the end.

[Eoin]

He'd have been well able to cope with canada and as the only other OH in ireland (with respect to keatley) he need some game time.

Yeah, he's the only real option if ROG gets injured. Wallace is shite and Keatley is still a bit off the pace.

[Eoin]

I hope this is not his complete first choice starting 15.



Of course its not, he's doing something Eddie never could do and experimenting in a game we know we should win. Giving young lads a run out and some experience. You'll see a different team next week.

[Brad]

Of course its not, he's doing something Eddie never could do and experimenting in a game we know we should win. Giving young lads a run out and some experience. You'll see a different team next week.

Fair enough - i just thought he said last week something to the effect that we would be playing strongest team. I wouldn't say it is far off his strongest team either way.

Is that guy Niall O Connor not playing for Ulster at all anymore??Only saw him the once but thought he looked far better that Sexton.

[cit_gym_rat]

Kidney has done the correct thing here, keeping first team players together to establish momentum coming into the bigger games, while also blooding some young players. This is the only game of the 3 that he can afford that with scotland breathing down our necks in the world rankings.

I would read nothing into wallace, quinny and hayes not starting. Buckley needs international experience, would like to see Court and Caldwell getting some too. But he doesnt have the luxury of that with these 3 games.

Im very excited about the backs, they are the future of irish rugby and on a dry day could really play open attacking rugby.

This is not his starting 15 i think we will see that against the all blacks and/or the pumas.

[captainshamrock]

Buckley's last chance to prove he can step up.
Nice to see Ferris get a chance after all his luck with injuries but Wallace will be in next week.
Think Best will start against the AB's unless Flannery has a perfect game.
Looking at the backs I'm drooling. Earls on runs outside the centres. If they get it together it will be great to watch.
Wonder if Earls and Kearney will switch during the game. Earls is better on attack but Kearney is better under the high ball. Definately need strong kickers in the back three with the new kicking game.

[cit_gym_rat]

Buckley's last chance to prove he can step up.
Nice to see Ferris get a chance after all his luck with injuries but Wallace will be in next week.
Think Best will start against the AB's unless Flannery has a perfect game.
Looking at the backs I'm drooling. Earls on runs outside the centres. If they get it together it will be great to watch.
Wonder if Earls and Kearney will switch during the game. Earls is better on attack but Kearney is better under the high ball. Definately need strong kickers in the back three with the new kicking game.
i think Flannery has been given the chance to prove his place for the all blacks game too

[raZor]

He'd have been well able to cope with canada and as the only other OH in ireland (with respect to keatley) he need some game time.

Ya I'd agree he needs a confidence boost after his disaster in the Churchill cup this could have been the ideal shot for him.

[Coogee]

Ireland Team V Canada, GUINNESS Series 2008, Thomond Park, Saturday November 8th, 17:15

15 – Keith Earls* (Young Munster/Munster)

14 – Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)

13 – Brian O’Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) Captain

12 – Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)

11 – Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)

10 – Ronan O’Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)

9 – Eoin Reddan (Wasps)

1 – Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)

2 – Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)

3 – Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)

4 – Donncha O’Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)

5 – Paul O’Connell (Young Munster/Munster)

6 – Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)

7 – Shane Jennings (St.Mary’s College/Leinster)

8 – Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements to be selected from the following 8:

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster), John Hayes (Bruff/Munster), Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon/Ulster), Alan Quinlan (Shannon/Munster), David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster), Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster), Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)

Has he dropped John Hayes (having the season of his life) for Tony Buckley?

Can't believe he could not find a starting place for Quinlan or Wallace.

Maybe he is keeping some guys in reserve for NZ game? What do you think?

arguably our strongest team bar Hayes and wallace and maybe Quinlan...good to see ferris getting a start as he has been in good form this season...very exciting backline and could be our backline for years to come

[BangorFeen]

Of course, let's not beat around the bush here: Had EOS put out that team we'd be lashing on the vitriol with a trowel..

[Eoin]

Of course, let's not beat around the bush here: Had EOS put out that team we'd be lashing on the vitriol with a trowel..

Hardly, I'd be applauding him for taking risks and giving the younger up and coming players a shot, something he NEVER did while in charge unless he was forced to by injury.

[BangorFeen]

Hardly, I'd be applauding him for taking risks and giving the younger up and coming players a shot, something he NEVER did while in charge unless he was forced to by injury.
Let's be fair; in the "nothing" games he usually did. Romania in 2005 for example. This is a side with one new cap and three changes that you could pin down as giving a squad player a chance. Even more than that look at the bench! The core of this team is first choice with the possible exception of the injured TOL. Of course I appreciate the reasons for that but what we need to realise is that while DK is a better coach than EOS if anything he's even more conservative. You've a very short memory if you can't remember the saga about Dowling and Barry Murphy and that's just one example. Kidney gets deserved slack on this because he's produced the goods

[HappyMonday83]

Of course, let's not beat around the bush here: Had EOS put out that team we'd be lashing on the vitriol with a trowel..

You're not wrong. It's pretty much the same team the eddie would have put out.

[BangorFeen]

You're not wrong. It's pretty much the same team the eddie would have put out.
More or less. That's not necessarily a problem for me mind as the goal here is securing 8th spot in the rankings. I reckon it'll be the 6Ns before we see the real cut of Kidney's jib. My suspicion is that it'll be a more thoughtful and accepting conservatism than EOS. At least DK has a track record of listening to something other than the soundtrack of his own soul. Even at that though you could probably name the starting XV for February now with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Sexton is 23 now and needs to start showing promise. We've got two years tops to get him up to standard but as Ulster found an aging but reliable incumbent is a dangerous security blanklet...

I don't expect much out of this season's 6Ns

[Eoin]

Let's be fair; in the "nothing" games he usually did. Romania in 2005 for example. This is a side with one new cap and three changes that you could pin down as giving a squad player a chance. Even more than that look at the bench! The core of this team is first choice with the possible exception of the injured TOL. Of course I appreciate the reasons for that but what we need to realise is that while DK is a better coach than EOS if anything he's even more conservative. You've a very short memory if you can't remember the saga about Dowling and Barry Murphy and that's just one example. Kidney gets deserved slack on this because he's produced the goods

I disagree. I don't think Earls would be playing if Eddie was in charge. Or Ferris.

Yes Kidney is conservative, but he can make the big calls when it matters. Look at OLeary against Gloucester last season for instance. I don't think Eddie would have dropped Stringer like that for such a big game.

[HappyMonday83]

More or less. That's not necessarily a problem for me mind as the goal here is securing 8th spot in the rankings. I reckon it'll be the 6Ns before we see the real cut of Kidney's jib. My suspicion is that it'll be a more thoughtful and accepting conservatism than EOS. At least DK has a track record of listening to something other than the soundtrack of his own soul. Even at that though you could probably name the starting XV for February now with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Sexton is 23 now and needs to start showing promise. We've got two years tops to get him up to standard but as Ulster found an aging but reliable incumbent is a dangerous security blanklet...

I don't expect much out of this season's 6Ns

Arland need to start phasing rog out now. If not, by the time the WC comes around we'll be stuck with a over the hill OH and no one to replace him. I'd have played him against canada and i'd start him against italy and scotland in the 6N.

[Brad]

I disagree. I don't think Earls would be playing if Eddie was in charge. Or Ferris.

Yes Kidney is conservative, but he can make the big calls when it matters. Look at OLeary against Gloucester last season for instance. I don't think Eddie would have dropped Stringer like that for such a big game.

Correct.

Hurley in for Payne was a big call too, although i still belive it was the wrong call.

Two Heineken Cups in three years - how anyone can dispute his record is beyond me. If he were English the Queen would be sucking him off.

[Eoin]

Arland need to start phasing rog out now. If not, by the time the WC comes around we'll be stuck with a over the hill OH and no one to replace him. I'd have played him against canada and i'd start him against italy and scotland in the 6N.

Yeah, Sexton has to start getting games, if ROG was to get injured we're fucked. Paddy Wallace is a liability.

[Arcadia]

I disagree. I don't think Earls would be playing if Eddie was in charge. Or Ferris.

Yes Kidney is conservative, but he can make the big calls when it matters. Look at OLeary against Gloucester last season for instance. I don't think Eddie would have dropped Stringer like that for such a big game.

Of course !

That was a massive call.

+ we would be still having the argument over Murphy or Dempsey @ FB with EOS.

[BangorFeen]

Yeah, Sexton has to start getting games, if ROG was to get injured we're fucked. Paddy Wallace is a liability.
No, Paddy Wallace is a journeyman inside centre being shipped out to 10

[BangorFeen]

I disagree. I don't think Earls would be playing if Eddie was in charge. Or Ferris.

Yes Kidney is conservative, but he can make the big calls when it matters. Look at OLeary against Gloucester last season for instance. I don't think Eddie would have dropped Stringer like that for such a big game.
Not so. Who was elevating Earls to international appearances when he wasn't even making the 22 for Munster? It certainly wasn't Kidney. EOS had an awful lot of time for Earls and I find it difficult to believe he wouldn't have had him in the side. He wanted to include Sexton last year and he would've featured but for injury. Fitzgerald and Kearney also came through on his watch. Ferris too made a number of appearances under EOS. Like I said, EOS was pretty good at giving lads runs in the nothing games. Progression beyond that to something meaningful was the problem. I see that as changing only cosmetically under Kidney (though that of it self will be important - see the meetings DK has had with the overseas players recently)

IMO at least, EOS's fundamental problem wasn't his conservatism (though it was an issue) but his inability to intergrate outside influences in the way he went about his business. We were using backline moves from the early 1990s London Irish playbook as late as this year's 6Ns. You don't believe me? Look at Simon Geoghegan's try against England in 1994 and compare it with 75% of the backline moves against France this year... He'd lost the players about 18 months ago too for one reason or another. DK is even more conservative than EOS (and I'll 100% stand over that) but DK realises that you need quality input and assembled a winning team on that basis.

[BangorFeen]

Of course !

That was a massive call.

+ we would be still having the argument over Murphy or Dempsey @ FB with EOS.
Not really. EOS was championing Earls whilst he was still playing AIL Div 2 and he never really bought into Murphy as a world class FB

[BangorFeen]

Correct.

Hurley in for Payne was a big call too, although i still belive it was the wrong call.

Two Heineken Cups in three years - how anyone can dispute his record is beyond me. If he were English the Queen would be sucking him off.
No one is questioning his record. He's an excellent coach and I don't doubt that ultimately his tenure with Ireland will be a success I just find it interesting that the things that EOS was doing last year have been excoriated on here by many (myself included) whilst those self same things are being greeted with nodding heads and murmurs of approval when DK does them.

[Brad]

Not so. Who was elevating Earls to international appearances when he wasn't even making the 22 for Munster? It certainly wasn't Kidney. EOS had an awful lot of time for Earls and I find it difficult to believe he wouldn't have had him in the side. He wanted to include Sexton last year and he would've featured but for injury. Fitzgerald and Kearney also came through on his watch. Ferris too made a number of appearances under EOS. Like I said, EOS was pretty good at giving lads runs in the nothing games. Progression beyond that to something meaningful was the problem. I see that as changing only cosmetically under Kidney (though that of it self will be important - see the meetings DK has had with the overseas players recently)

IMO at least, EOS's fundamental problem wasn't his conservatism (though it was an issue) but his inability to intergrate outside influences in the way he went about his business. We were using backline moves from the early 1990s London Irish playbook as late as this year's 6Ns. You don't believe me? Look at Simon Geoghegan's try against England in 1994 and compare it with 75% of the backline moves against France this year... He'd lost the players about 18 months ago too for one reason or another. DK is even more conservative than EOS (and I'll 100% stand over that) but DK realises that you need quality input and assembled a winning team on that basis.


Earls was in the 22 for Heineken Final.

[Brad]

No one is questioning his record. He's an excellent coach and I don't doubt that ultimately his tenure with Ireland will be a success I just find it interesting that the things that EOS was doing last year have been excoriated on here by many (myself included) whilst those self same things are being greeted with nodding heads and murmurs of approval when DK does them.

Well it is a futile argument really. EOS is not manager now so we will never know if he would picked the likes of Earls, Ferris, etc.

I believe EOS would not have picked them based on his conservative record, however i could be wrong, he may have picked them, we will never know...

[Eoin]

No one is questioning his record. He's an excellent coach and I don't doubt that ultimately his tenure with Ireland will be a success I just find it interesting that the things that EOS was doing last year have been excoriated on here by many (myself included) whilst those self same things are being greeted with nodding heads and murmurs of approval when DK does them.

Hmmm, you may be right, I still stand by my opinion that Eddie would not have picked Earls or Ferris for the game on saturday.

Anyway, enough of this, Eddie is gone now, lets talk about the future!

[BangorFeen]

Earls was in the 22 for Heineken Final.
In 2008. Eddie was sending subtle hints to DK a year before that

[POL]

Its clear Kidney has not a clue what he is doing, they will regret shafting Eddie O'Sullivan yet. Kidney is unproven at this level

[BangorFeen]

Hmmm, you may be right, I still stand by my opinion that Eddie would not have picked Earls or Ferris for the game on saturday.

Anyway, enough of this, Eddie is gone now, lets talk about the future!
Fair enough. You going to the game? Given my impoverished state this will be the only game I make of the Autumn series though a buddy is waving an Argentina ticket in the general area of my nose...

[BangorFeen]

Its clear Kidney has not a clue what he is doing, they will regret shafting Eddie O'Sullivan yet. Kidney is unproven at this level
I was wondering how long it would take you to come to the party. You're slipping and that WUM is so obvious it would probably not even get any bites on the Langers' Forum

[Brad]

In 2008. Eddie was sending subtle hints to DK a year before that

Come on now dude, what are you basing that on and how would you know about what subtle hints EOS is sending DK? Both men apparently dislike each other intensly so i doubt hints of any nature were being exchanged.

[Eoin]

Fair enough. You going to the game? Given my impoverished state this will be the only game I make of the Autumn series though a buddy is waving an Argentina ticket in the general area of my nose...

Nah, have shit on in Dublin this weekend, so giving it a miss. Plus I'm smashed, can't afford a trip down home! Going to the other 2 games in Croke Park though.

[Brad]

Its clear Kidney has not a clue what he is doing, they will regret shafting Eddie O'Sullivan yet. Kidney is unproven at this level

What took you so long???

[BangorFeen]

Come on now dude, what are you basing that on and how would you know about what subtle hints EOS is sending DK? Both men apparently dislike each other intensly so i doubt hints of any nature were being exchanged.
EOS elevates Earls to the "A" team at a point when Earls is still playing for Thomond in the AIL Div 2.
Signal #1

Earls goes on to be one of the stars of the 2007 Churchill Cup and scores tries for fun from both wing and centre even against serious quality opposition

Signal #2

Kidney should've realised he had a real prospect on his hands at that stage. It took him another 15 months to act on that in any meaningful way. I have no problem with a player being groomed carefully and not rushed but Kidney had ample time to blood Earls sensibly in the intervening period and he didn't do it.

Kidney is a damn fine manager, the best available to us but he has his weaknesses and conservatism is one of them. The 06/07 season is a case in point.

[POL]

Earls is been thrown in too soon, he lacks physicality at the breakdown

[BangorFeen]

Hare and hound, eh POL?

[POL]

Kidney's interpretation of the ELV's leaves a lot to be desired in fairness

[Brad]

EOS elevates Earls to the "A" team at a point when Earls is still playing for Thomond in the AIL Div 2.
Signal #1

Earls goes on to be one of the stars of the 2007 Churchill Cup and scores tries for fun from both wing and centre even against serious quality opposition

Signal #2

Kidney should've realised he had a real prospect on his hands at that stage. It took him another 15 months to act on that in any meaningful way. I have no problem with a player being groomed carefully and not rushed but Kidney had ample time to blood Earls sensibly in the intervening period and he didn't do it.

Kidney is a damn fine manager, the best available to us but he has his weaknesses and conservatism is one of them. The 06/07 season is a case in point.

Well it is somewhat of a Munster thing (easing the guy in, for example McGahan has not allowed him to speak to media) and he is only 21 years of age. Not many players start earlier than that.

Kidney is somewhat conservative but will make tough decisions when they are needed (Payne, Stringer). He is not up there with EOS in terms of conservatism and the main difference is he has no ego and will listen to others. He has played blinder already with the media and has kept all provinces happish. BOD is captain and that would suggest they now have a better relationship or are building a better one. I think we will have a glorious season and with 6N finally.

[BangorFeen]

Kidney's interpretation of the ELV's leaves a lot to be desired in fairness
My gubbinsometer just melted

[BangorFeen]

Well it is somewhat of a Munster thing (easing the guy in, for example McGahan has not allowed him to speak to media) and he is only 21 years of age. Not many players start earlier than that.

Kidney is somewhat conservative but will make tough decisions when they are needed (Payne, Stringer). He is not up there with EOS in terms of conservatism and the main difference is he has no ego and will listen to others. He has played blinder already with the media and has kept all provinces happish. BOD is captain and that would suggest they now have a better relationship or are building a better one. I think we will have a glorious season and with 6N finally.
I disagree. Plenty of quality players in the SH start at that age. McGahan has shown what Kidney should have been doing WRT Earls a year earlier. In fact in a broader sense it seems to me that even while still under Kidney TMcG had very clear ideas on how things should be done (not necessarily better than Kidney's gameplan) and fully formed opinions on all of the players that would not neatly overlap with DK's. Hurley, Earls, MOD, Ryan and Buckley have all seen that.

Like I said, I cannot agree with you on the conservatism but I will agree with you that DK has had a good start in trying to sort out the mess of Cooder isolationism.

This year's 6Ns will be unlikely to give us anything better than a Triple Crown IMO. I'd take meaningful consolidation and progress on developing our frontline options

[Brad]

I disagree. Plenty of quality players in the SH start at that age. McGahan has shown what Kidney should have been doing WRT Earls a year earlier. In fact in a broader sense it seems to me that even while still under Kidney TMcG had very clear ideas on how things should be done (not necessarily better than Kidney's gameplan) and fully formed opinions on all of the players that would not neatly overlap with DK's. Hurley, Earls, MOD, Ryan and Buckley have all seen that.

Like I said, I cannot agree with you on the conservatism but I will agree with you that DK has had a good start in trying to sort out the mess of Cooder isolationism.

This year's 6Ns will be unlikely to give us anything better than a Triple Crown IMO. I'd take meaningful consolidation and progress on developing our frontline options

I know this is a stereotype but genetically they are bigger bastards in SH and develop earlier! Generally speaking players in Ireland/Europe would not be making their international debuts until 20/21 which is where Earls was at. Kidney had him in the 22 for the HC final but i also believe there was not much opportunity to play Earls at the end of last season (can't be risking a young guy like him at the business end of HC). I agree Kidney is conservative but not to the levels of EOS and more importantly not as stubborn.

Our backline on Saturday is Earls, Kearney, Fitz, BOD, O Gara, Reddan. All playing with 3 top teams in Europe - possibly 3 teams out of the top 6 in Europe. Horgan, Dempsey, Murphy, Darcy, Stringer, TOL all in reserve. That looks fucking good to me. Could do with a few more options up front but generally we look good(most of the pack play with best team in Europe). You have the Kidney factor, an excellent backroom team, Eng/Fra at home and i believe we will win 6N. However if ROG gets injured i am fucking that prediction out the window!

[BangorFeen]

I know this is a stereotype but genetically they are bigger bastards in SH and develop earlier! Generally speaking players in Ireland/Europe would not be making their international debuts until 20/21 which is where Earls was at. Kidney had him in the 22 for the HC final but i also believe there was not much opportunity to play Earls at the end of last season (can't be risking a young guy like him at the business end of HC). I agree Kidney is conservative but not to the levels of EOS and more importantly not as stubborn.

Our backline on Saturday is Earls, Kearney, Fitz, BOD, O Gara, Reddan. All playing with 3 top teams in Europe - possibly 3 teams out of the top 6 in Europe. Horgan, Dempsey, Murphy, Darcy, Stringer, TOL all in reserve. That looks fucking good to me. Could do with a few more options up front but generally we look good(most of the pack play with best team in Europe). You have the Kidney factor, an excellent backroom team, Eng/Fra at home and i believe we will win 6N. However if ROG gets injured i am fucking that prediction out the window!
Wasps are very far from where they were two years ago at the moment. Oh it's a good side without question but it's a new coach and the old problems in key positions are still there. You say we are one ROG injury away from catastrophe and that it true but injuries to BOD, POC or Hayes would similarly screw us though in less obvious ways. We could do it on a bolter but until we start beating France regularly then it's not going to happen. And if serial humiliations at the hands of French sides over the years aren't good enough to get fella's pumped then I can't see what Kidney can do with them. Slow steady progression, a solid result with wins over everyone but France and I'd be happy enough. It puts us back where we were and Kidney can take things forward from there

[Brad]

Wasps are very far from where they were two years ago at the moment. Oh it's a good side without question but it's a new coach and the old problems in key positions are still there. You say we are one ROG injury away from catastrophe and that it true but injuries to BOD, POC or Hayes would similarly screw us though in less obvious ways. We could do it on a bolter but until we start beating France regularly then it's not going to happen. And if serial humiliations at the hands of French sides over the years aren't good enough to get fella's pumped then I can't see what Kidney can do with them. Slow steady progression, a solid result with wins over everyone but France and I'd be happy enough. It puts us back where we were and Kidney can take things forward from there

English champions 6 months ago. Bad start to the season for Wasps - i wonder has Edwards taken on too much (Lions, Wales and Wasps).

ROG, while maybe not the best player we have, is the one we can't afford to lose. He plays in the most important position on the pitch and we have zero subsitutes for him. If BOD were injured i would not be particularly worried, he has not being great in two years. He had two decent games there recently and suddenly everybody thinks he is god again. I can't remember the last time i saw him make a genuine break and skin a guy. His two tries against Wasps were more to do with good hands/rugby intelligence.

We play France in Croke Park and i just think we owe them one. There is not much difference in terms of quality between the teams so i think we owe them one.

I also fancy us to take the AB's.

By the way i am not high ;)

[captainshamrock]

Kidney's interpretation of the ELV's leaves a lot to be desired in fairness

Name one game where he has coached a side that played under the elv's.

poor effort

[captainshamrock]

It's way too early to talk about the 6 nations.
We're got a weak English side at home and who knows what France will be like. Most likely we'll be crushed as usual but Irish rugby supporters only have optimism to go on.
Nice set of backs with only 9 and 10 as suspect. Depth at backrow and hooker. Who knows but if we lose this year it will be the longest run with out a championship in the history of the championship an dthat includes when france were shit.
For the AI's Argentinia is the must win game but I suspect they are secretly targeting the All Black game based to the last 2 tours down there. I'm not getting my hope up as NZ are always better at this time of year with the exception of world cup years. They probably see us as the tough game but expect to win. They have rested most of the team for the Scotland game so they can put out a first team against us.

[BangorFeen]

It's way too early to talk about the 6 nations.
We're got a weak English side at home and who knows what France will be like. Most likely we'll be crushed as usual but Irish rugby supporters only have optimism to go on.
Nice set of backs with only 9 and 10 as suspect. Depth at backrow and hooker. Who knows but if we lose this year it will be the longest run with out a championship in the history of the championship an dthat includes when france were shit.
For the AI's Argentinia is the must win game but I suspect they are secretly targeting the All Black game based to the last 2 tours down there. I'm not getting my hope up as NZ are always better at this time of year with the exception of world cup years. They probably see us as the tough game but expect to win. They have rested most of the team for the Scotland game so they can put out a first team against us.
The only depth at hooker is the depth of mediocrity. That said; this is a problem which is afflicting pretty much everyone in the Home Nations of late. There is no clear front-runner for the Lions for example.

NZ do not and have not for some time seen us as a tough prospect IMO. We would be doing very well to win that game. Hopefully DK will resist the temptation to "Do a Scotland" with the NZ team. His strong side for the Canada game is making me a little nervous on that front but hopefully that's just me being skittish.

[Arcadia]

Earls is been thrown in too soon, he lacks physicality at the breakdown

Come on POL.

New season new catchphrases required for your WUMS please.

Poor effort 0/10.

[Coogee]

Yeah, Sexton has to start getting games, if ROG was to get injured we're fucked. Paddy Wallace is a liability.

in fairness to paddy wallace i dont ever think he was an out half...played quite well at 12 in the summer tour and its probablt too late now but could have made a fine 12...i always like a kicking option at 12 ala mike catt...something ireland have not had for years witht he likes of Maggs. Hendo, Darcy, Bell etc wearing 12

[Coogee]

Its clear Kidney has not a clue what he is doing, they will regret shafting Eddie O'Sullivan yet. Kidney is unproven at this level

so is Martin Johnson..in fact he is unproven at any level of coaching/management...Kidney has coached winning teams at evry other level so the next logical step was full international level...

[Coogee]

Come on now dude, what are you basing that on and how would you know about what subtle hints EOS is sending DK? Both men apparently dislike each other intensly so i doubt hints of any nature were being exchanged.

maybe the fact that Earls was selected on the 2007 churhill cup squad and started most of the games...pretty bold selection as he only made his munster senior debut in april 2007 aged 19...im sure eddie had a say in selecting that squad

[Coogee]

EOS elevates Earls to the "A" team at a point when Earls is still playing for Thomond in the AIL Div 2.
Signal #1

Earls goes on to be one of the stars of the 2007 Churchill Cup and scores tries for fun from both wing and centre even against serious quality opposition

Signal #2

Kidney should've realised he had a real prospect on his hands at that stage. It took him another 15 months to act on that in any meaningful way. I have no problem with a player being groomed carefully and not rushed but Kidney had ample time to blood Earls sensibly in the intervening period and he didn't do it.

Kidney is a damn fine manager, the best available to us but he has his weaknesses and conservatism is one of them. The 06/07 season is a case in point.

in fairness to kidney i think he elevated earls at just the right time...earls only made hos first munster appearence in April 2007...he was then picked for the churchill cup in june 2007 and scored some great tries...his appearence last season were curtailed due to a few injuries and he was back in contention for the HEC knock out stages...After another great string of performances in the 2008 churchill cup he was then picked as first choice by Mcgahan

[POL]

so is Martin Johnson..in fact he is unproven at any level of coaching/management...Kidney has coached winning teams at evry other level so the next logical step was full international level...like Newport and Leinster? :lol!:

[Coogee]

like Newport and Leinster? :lol!:

was thinking like Pres...Irleand u-19 world cup winners, Munster two times heineken cup champs and the like....

[BangorFeen]

like Newport and Leinster? :lol!:
Have the SFI cut you adrift, son?

[HappyMonday83]

was thinking like Pres...Irleand u-19 world cup winners, Munster two times heineken cup champs and the like....
In all fairness like, kidney has only coached one professional team to success. He failed miserably at newport and leinster, BOD say that he learned absolutely nothing from kidney while he was there. He's only had success at munster and there he had pretty much the arish international pack playing at HEC level. If he wasn't able to win matches with that then he'd be an awful coach. People who think kidney is going to take arland to the top are very much mistaken. In my eyes anything less than a grand slam next year is a failure. He's worked with most of the players and knows them all inside out, so any excuse of "bedding in" time is nonsense. Add to that a weak enough english team and a french side rebuilding the slam is there for the taking.

[BangorFeen]

In all fairness like, kidney has only coached one professional team to success. He failed miserably at newport and leinster, BOD say that he learned absolutely nothing from kidney while he was there. He's only had success at munster and there he had pretty much the arish international pack playing at HEC level. If he wasn't able to win matches with that then he'd be an awful coach. People who think kidney is going to take arland to the top are very much mistaken. In my eyes anything less than a grand slam next year is a failure. He's worked with most of the players and knows them all inside out, so any excuse of "bedding in" time is nonsense. Add to that a weak enough english team and a french side rebuilding the slam is there for the taking.
And? Really, what more do you want from the guy? Newport were and are a running joke as a side (so could you blame him for jumping ship?) and the Leinster thing was a disaster from the start. It's not as if Cheika has achieved a whole lot more with largely the same group of players. When Kidney has had a group of players that he clicks with, the results are usually good, As for the international pack at HEC level; the Ospreys had the majority of Wales' 2008 grand slammers and a fair few of 2005's too and yet have made one knock-out round in the 2005-2008 period at HEC level.

DK is going to have to be cautious this year because whilst I'm sure the Munster lads respect him, they might have reservations of a "Meet the new boss..." variety. That's even before you get to the Leinster boys. So I expect little. EOS was bankrupt strategically and tactically by the end of his reign and the mood in the camp was in a word, shite. Kidney has to clean that mess up and bring the players back to where they were.

England are a second row and hooker away from being a pretty decent side. Their back three could be better but that's as much a function of injuries as anything else. France are our bugbear and I'd take a good win over them over a triple crown (losing to Wales in Cardiff).

The slam is never there for the taking. Ask England.

[Brad]

And? Really, what more do you want from the guy? Newport were and are a running joke as a side (so could you blame him for jumping ship?) and the Leinster thing was a disaster from the start. It's not as if Cheika has achieved a whole lot more with largely the same group of players. When Kidney has had a group of players that he clicks with, the results are usually good, As for the international pack at HEC level; the Ospreys had the majority of Wales' 2008 grand slammers and a fair few of 2005's too and yet have made one knock-out round in the 2005-2008 period at HEC level.

DK is going to have to be cautious this year because whilst I'm sure the Munster lads respect him, they might have reservations of a "Meet the new boss..." variety. That's even before you get to the Leinster boys. So I expect little. EOS was bankrupt strategically and tactically by the end of his reign and the mood in the camp was in a word, shite. Kidney has to clean that mess up and bring the players back to where they were.

England are a second row and hooker away from being a pretty decent side. Their back three could be better but that's as much a function of injuries as anything else. France are our bugbear and I'd take a good win over them over a triple crown (losing to Wales in Cardiff).

The slam is never there for the taking. Ask England.

Did he ever actually manage Newport for a game? Few pre-season friendlies maybe? That hardly counts.

He took Leinster to the quarter final of the HC - as good as they get really.

[BangorFeen]

Did he ever actually manage Newport for a game? Few pre-season friendlies maybe? That hardly counts.

He took Leinster to the quarter final of the HC - as good as they get really.
He did SFAIK. I seem to remember watching at least one NGD Celtic League game with him in charge. Bobby Skinstad and Percy Montgomery were playing for them back in them days. IIRC they won that game

[POL]

So kidney has been a success everywhere of course except Leinster, and Newport :lol!:

[Brad]

He did SFAIK. I seem to remember watching at least one NGD Celtic League game with him in charge. Bobby Skinstad and Percy Montgomery were playing for them back in them days. IIRC they won that game

Are you sure? Christ i'd say at most he was there for 2/3 games??

He was a success at Leinster, if you are to look at there performances over the years.

[BangorFeen]

Are you sure? Christ i'd say at most he was there for 2/3 games??

He was a success at Leinster, if you are to look at there performances over the years.
I could be wrong.

I think it's pushing the boat out to say that he was a success with the Laydees. He didn't win anything with them after all. Their HEC group was ridiculously easy that season and the performance against the Tiggers remains a pretty grubby black mark on his record. He was no more of a failure than anyone else who managed them though. Cheika hasn't achieved an awful lot more and neither did Mitt Williams.

[captainshamrock]

so is Martin Johnson..in fact he is unproven at any level of coaching/management...Kidney has coached winning teams at evry other level so the next logical step was full international level...

like Newport and Leinster? :lol!:

Munster are HC level like Newport and Leinster.

So yes he has had success at the lower levels and international is the next level.

Another poor effort. Strike must have you off your game.

[captainshamrock]

I could be wrong.

I think it's pushing the boat out to say that he was a success with the Laydees. He didn't win anything with them after all. Their HEC group was ridiculously easy that season and the performance against the Tiggers remains a pretty grubby black mark on his record. He was no more of a failure than anyone else who managed them though. Cheika hasn't achieved an awful lot more and neither did Mitt Williams.

He definately had a few dodgy seasons but they were short and disjointed so we never got to see if he would have succeeded. He's under pressure in the Ireland job from day one because of this. Every selection is over analysed for bias and he'll get crucified when the first bad game happens. Hopefully it won't be Argentinia and he'll get a decent run at the 6 nations with out the ladyboys whining and bitching.

[Proinsias]

Couldn't be arsed reading this, looks like more of the same shit. "Kidney walked out", continue ad nauseum.

Anyway, I'm in the Yoo Kay, there aren't many pubs with RTE within a 45 minute drive, anyone know if the match is to be shown on any form of UK telly?

[BangorFeen]

Couldn't be arsed reading this, looks like more of the same shit. "Kidney walked out", continue ad nauseum.

Anyway, I'm in the Yoo Kay, there aren't many pubs with RTE within a 45 minute drive, anyone know if the match is to be shown on any form of UK telly?
Ah now, to be fair, only POL has gone into spambot mode. HM83 is actually "engaging". If you will. Beeb NI don't appear to be carrying the game.

[Proinsias]

Fair nuff.

HM does that occasionally and shows he has more knowledge than his comments betray.

Online streaming?

Looks like it'll have to be online radio then. Bugger.

[BangorFeen]

Fair nuff.

HM does that occasionally and shows he has more knowledge than his comments betray.

Online streaming?

Looks like it'll have to be online radio then. Bugger.
Yup but not available in the UK. Although I'm sure a man of your technical proficiency could get around that with various IP fiddling doodaas. Quality is actually quite good. I watched the CRs online last Friday and it was more than satisfactory.

[Proinsias]

I'll put my reply in the other thread

[Brad]

Irish squad feels rejuvenated - O'Driscoll

With Declan Kidney giving youth its chance in Ireland's opening autumn Test against Canada Brian O'Driscoll has spoken of the excitement of being involved in what he feels is a rejuvenated Irish squad.

O'Driscoll, who will captain his country for the 49th time on Saturday, will be part of one of the youngest Irish backlines for some time.

Kidney has selected a backs unit with an average age of 25, with debutant full-back Keith Earls (21), centre Luke Fitzgerald (21) and winger Rob Kearney (22) adding a fresh input.

Playing at full-back, Kearney was arguably Ireland's best player on their summer tour to New Zealand and Australia and he continues to enhance his reputation with Leinster.

Both Earls and Fitzgerald played together in the Ireland Schools side that beat France, England and Wales in 2005 and their quick progression since then, with Munster and Leinster respectively, has them marked out as Irish rugby's new wonderkids.

An elder statesman of the backline at 29, O'Driscoll has never played with Earls before but rates the newcomer highly.

'I think Keith's been probably the in-form back in Ireland this season,' he said. 'The great thing about his first selection is that it seems to be a selection picked on form and I think it's important to reward form.

'Irrespective of how old you are or how young you are, if you're producing the goods on a weekly basis and you're training well on a daily basis when you come into squads you're putting your hat in the ring to be selected.

'I'm looking forward to playing with him. He's a very exciting player. I don't want to to build things up too much because it's about growing into international rugby but, at the same time, if he gets those basics right, I know he can create things as well.

'It will be about running off him and trying to give him those options. It's very exciting to be involved in a backline with him.'

An added benefit to Kidney of having the likes of Earls on board is he can play in three different positions.

The Moyross native was ever-present on the left wing during the Ireland Under-20s' Grand Slam campaign in 2007 and he has played at full-back and centre for Munster this season, scoring a hat-trick of tries from full-back against the Dragons and donning the number 13 shirt for Munster's successful Heineken Cup trip to Sale last month.

With Fitzgerald and Kearney also capable of switching positions, that versatility is a sign of progress according to O'Driscoll.

'It's an important aspect in moving forward. You see other teams doing it, particularly the French where they have guys that can play in three or four different positions in the backline,' he added.

'Sometimes we pigeon-hole ourselves a little bit in to just being specialists in one position - there's no reason why you can't be a specialists in two or three different positions.

'By guys playing in different positions, whether it be for their province or country, they're gaining more experience so they're getting more confident and comfortable playing there.

'It's certainly a good progression. You want to get your best players on the pitch. Just because you've got three great centres, one guy shouldn't be left out. If he can play on the wing, well fantastic.'

Another reason why optimism is brewing in the Kidney-led set-up is that the new coaches, such as Alan Gaffney (backs), Gert Smal (forwards) and Les Kiss (defence), are bringing in new ideas and calls at training.

With O'Driscoll noticeably back on form and Ireland needing to better or at least maintain their IRB world ranking of eighth before the 2011 Rugby World Cup draw on December 1, things seem to be clicking even before a ball is kicked.

'It's really exciting. I'm rooming with Donncha (O'Callaghan) at the moment and it was exciting the night before the team announcement wondering what the team was going to be. It's nice to have that rejuvenation again,' the Ireland skipper admitted.

'We've looked forward to training. I have looked forward to training every time I've gone out. I feel I'm learning things on a daily basis.

'I think we're trying to push each other as much as we ever have. With the new coaching staff in there, you're trying to impress them and get off on a good footing. It seems like it's a little bit of a rebirth.'

Rog is in with Sexton. Mixing up the provincial players a lot i'd say. DK playing a blinder already.

[cit_gym_rat]

after what was a very promising start to this game, ireland fell away in the second half. I know it can be hard to motivate yourself in these games but at half time i taught the tonne was very possible, should have put at least 70 on the score board. Felt Earls, Kearney and Bowe had a great game in awful conditions. O'Garas kicking to touch was suspect especially in the second half and stringer had an awful day when he came on.

[HappyMonday83]

Kidney out!!!

[mirps]

Kidney out!!!

You playing for Charleville tomorrow? Best of luck if you are.

I'll be somewhere in the opposition 15...

[captainshamrock]

Poor enough game. 55 points is nice but not sure is we learned anything. Think Ferris did well and should start next week. Reddan is pitifully slow and Stringer was poor when he came on. Whats the bet that Dempsey will be back next week with Earls on the bench. BOD looked really slow. Apart from his place kicking ROG didn't do much. Wallace was great as usual, Heaslip did fine. Hopefully some decent weather next week. The elv's really weren't designed for wet muddy games so we're forced to endure kicking and throwing it about and the resulting constant ball drops. Makes for a boring enough game.

[Coogee]

Poor enough game. 55 points is nice but not sure is we learned anything. Think Ferris did well and should start next week. Reddan is pitifully slow and Stringer was poor when he came on. Whats the bet that Dempsey will be back next week with Earls on the bench. BOD looked really slow. Apart from his place kicking ROG didn't do much. Wallace was great as usual, Heaslip did fine. Hopefully some decent weather next week. The elv's really weren't designed for wet muddy games so we're forced to endure kicking and throwing it about and the resulting constant ball drops. Makes for a boring enough game.

a nothing game really and i feel we would have learnt alot more from playing better quality opposition...

Team for next week:

Kearney, Horgan, BOD,Fitzgearld,Bowe, Rog, Reddan, Horan, Flannery, Hayes, DOC, POC, Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip

Best,Buckley,Quinlan ,Jennings,Stringer/Tol,Wallace,Earls/Murphy

[HappyMonday83]

a nothing game really and i feel we would have learnt alot more from playing better quality opposition...

Team for next week:

Kearney, Horgan, BOD,Fitzgearld,Bowe, Rog, Reddan, Horan, Flannery, Hayes, DOC, POC, Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip

Best,Buckley,Quinlan ,Jennings,Stringer/Tol,Wallace,Earls/Murphy

One match in and excuses are being made already. Oh dear.

I sense epic levels of rattlement in the near future.

[Coogee]

One match in and excuses are being made already. Oh dear.

I sense epic levels of rattlement in the near future.

read my post again ya eijet.....i wasnt making excuses..i simply said that against such poor opposition we learnt nothing...your old enough to have sense now arent ya!!

[HappyMonday83]

read my post again ya eijet.....i wasnt making excuses..i simply said that against such poor opposition we learnt nothing...your old enough to have sense now arent ya!!

The ghoys should have put a hundred on that canadian side. Kidney has picked up from where o' sullivan left off. I can't wait for the NZ game.

[HappyMonday83]

You playing for Charleville tomorrow? Best of luck if you are.

I'll be somewhere in the opposition 15...

Consider yourself pwned. An epic 3 - 0 victory for charleville.

[mirps]

Consider yourself pwned. An epic 3 - 0 victory for charleville.

Yeah, well done.

Bit pissed off the ref overruled the two touch judges for our kick. It was over. To be fair, ye were the better team. I'm sure ye'll push for promotion.

So were you the soft number 5?

[HappyMonday83]

Yeah, well done.

Bit pissed off the ref overruled the two touch judges for our kick. It was over. To be fair, ye were the better team. I'm sure ye'll push for promotion.

So were you the soft number 5?

No I wasn't, I did my knee friday night so I was on the side lines. Is yer man that was carried off all right?

[mirps]

No I wasn't, I did my knee friday night so I was on the side lines. Is yer man that was carried off all right?

Yeah, he'll be grand. Still a bit shook up though. He went back to Youghal with a few of the alicadoos (sp!?) and had to go back up to the A & E this evening.

He'll survive.

So were they the REAL supporters today? The guys hiding in the trees when there was a bit of a shower?

True fans they are...

[Brad]

Decent start - 8 tries and no points conceded, considering the weather twas not too bad. Glad Kidney gave everyone a run out (you just know EOS would not have). It was a no win situation on Saturday really. If we could have beaten the likes of Georgia/Namibia by that score a year ago maybe things would have being different...

What do people make of Luke Fitzgerald??? I can't say i have being particularly impressed with him in an Irish or Leinster shirt. Is he even particularly quick?

Finally, if we beat NZ and the Argies (which i think we will), is there any chance we could creep into the world top four rankings thereby getting a number one seed for the WC draw? I know we got fuck all ranking points beating Canada because they are below us, but NZ and the Argies are above us.

[BangorFeen]

The ghoys should have put a hundred on that canadian side. Kidney has picked up from where o' sullivan left off. I can't wait for the NZ game.
Maybe not a hundred but certainly more than the 55 they achieved. Canada were quite simply awful. The weather of course didn't help but we managed 38 points (I think?) in the first half into the teeth of a tsunami (it was even wetter and colder than what it looked on the telly). Frankly I thought Reddan was just plain slow, BOD was a confused, clumsy mess and Buckley, Jennings and DOC were anonymous. Against that Ferris did well (albeit against a very poor pack) as did Kearney and Earls (nice debut). Bowe and Heaslip didn't do their chances any harm either. I must single out Paddy Wallace though; for a man who gets no end of stick he came on and really added something to midfield.

On a general level we made the sort of mistakes that NZ would have broken us on the wheel for. Pretty much all the back three and ROG were guilty of some really aimless kicking and the quality of the passing in midfield was sometimes just plain awful. Still, it gives Kidney something to work on during the week

[Brad]

Maybe not a hundred but certainly more than the 55 they achieved. Canada were quite simply awful. The weather of course didn't help but we managed 38 points (I think?) in the first half into the teeth of a tsunami (it was even wetter and colder than what it looked on the telly). Frankly I thought Reddan was just plain slow, BOD was a confused, clumsy mess and Buckley, Jennings and DOC were anonymous. Against that Ferris did well (albeit against a very poor pack) as did Kearney and Earls (nice debut). Bowe and Heaslip didn't do their chances any harm either. I must single out Paddy Wallace though; for a man who gets no end of stick he came on and really added something to midfield.

On a general level we made the sort of mistakes that NZ would have broken us on the wheel for. Pretty much all the back three and ROG were guilty of some really aimless kicking and the quality of the passing in midfield was sometimes just plain awful. Still, it gives Kidney something to work on during the week


Agreed - all this talk of BOD being back to his best is ridiculous. He has zero pace and it ain't like he is going to get it back.

[Eoin]

55 points in those conditions is a good return, regardless of the opposition. Remember Namibia at the world cup? And I'm sure they relaxed a bit in the second half knowing the game ahead on saturday.

I'm still confident we can give the all-blacks a decent game at the weekend.

[HappyMonday83]

Yeah, he'll be grand. Still a bit shook up though. He went back to Youghal with a few of the alicadoos (sp!?) and had to go back up to the A & E this evening.

He'll survive.

So were they the REAL supporters today? The guys hiding in the trees when there was a bit of a shower?

True fans they are...

Yes they were. Not like the munster "supporters" who went home at half time during the arland canada match, and they had a roof over there heads.

[HappyMonday83]

Maybe not a hundred but certainly more than the 55 they achieved. Canada were quite simply awful. The weather of course didn't help but we managed 38 points (I think?) in the first half into the teeth of a tsunami (it was even wetter and colder than what it looked on the telly). Frankly I thought Reddan was just plain slow, BOD was a confused, clumsy mess and Buckley, Jennings and DOC were anonymous. Against that Ferris did well (albeit against a very poor pack) as did Kearney and Earls (nice debut). Bowe and Heaslip didn't do their chances any harm either. I must single out Paddy Wallace though; for a man who gets no end of stick he came on and really added something to midfield.

On a general level we made the sort of mistakes that NZ would have broken us on the wheel for. Pretty much all the back three and ROG were guilty of some really aimless kicking and the quality of the passing in midfield was sometimes just plain awful. Still, it gives Kidney something to work on during the week

That was the worst canadian performance i've seen in a long time. Any of the top tier nations would have scored the 100. This is excellent for arland.

[Brad]

That was the worst canadian performance i've seen in a long time. Any of the top tier nations would have scored the 100. This is excellent for arland.

I'd say you catch a lot of the Canadian rugby games do you? The closest you ever to watching their games is watching Ice Truckers. You don't like the national team either? Tis only the rugby stronghold of Charleville :lol!: you have time for i suppose.

[mirps]

Yes they were. Not like the munster "supporters" who went home at half time during the arland canada match, and they had a roof over there heads.

Erah, I'm only joking. You'd want to be a brave soul to come out and watch a division 2 game in those conditions, even braving to stay after watching what was being served up.

Not a bad game to play in though.

[HappyMonday83]

Erah, I'm only joking. You'd want to be a brave soul to come out and watch a division 2 game in those conditions, even braving to stay after watching what was being served up.

Not a bad game to play in though.

If it'd been a good day i'd say we would have seen a few tries.

[BangorFeen]

That was the worst canadian performance i've seen in a long time. Any of the top tier nations would have scored the 100. This is excellent for arland.
You're plucking figures out of the air now rather than looking at the performance per sé but I reckon somewhere nestling around the 90 mark would've been acceptable given the weather if we're playing that game. To go through a 10-15 minute period in the first half and a 25 minute period in the second without scoring against such a downright poor side is much more damning than the actual scoreline IMO. Some of our ruck defence was pretty poor too; the ABs will eat us alive if we don't protect ruck ball better. No doubt the SFI will now bang th'aul PatB drum...

[HappyMonday83]

You're plucking figures out of the air now rather than looking at the performance per sé but I reckon somewhere nestling around the 90 mark would've been acceptable given the weather if we're playing that game. To go through a 10-15 minute period in the first half and a 25 minute period in the second without scoring against such a downright poor side is much more damning than the actual scoreline IMO. Some of our ruck defence was pretty poor too; the ABs will eat us alive if we don't protect ruck ball better. No doubt the SFI will now bang th'aul PatB drum...
The pumas will smell blood.

[BangorFeen]

Agreed - all this talk of BOD being back to his best is ridiculous. He has zero pace and it ain't like he is going to get it back.
A little harsh. Mike Catt had no pace at the end of his career but still managed to put in good performances by using his head. There were some signs in the game that he hasn't completely lost it but we probably need to start looking towards the post-BOD era. That era might (in time) be Fitz @12 and Earls/Bowe at 13.

[BangorFeen]

The pumas will smell blood.
The Pumas aren't in the best of fettle themselves at the moment I think you'll find. We should have enough to beat them

[Brad]

A little harsh. Mike Catt had no pace at the end of his career but still managed to put in good performances by using his head. There were some signs in the game that he hasn't completely lost it but we probably need to start looking towards the post-BOD era. That era might (in time) be Fitz @12 and Earls/Bowe at 13.

Tis harsh but true. People were going crazy over his performance against Wasps but in truth his two tries were based around rugby intelligence and his footballing skills. However he has lost his pace and ability to skin a guy. I am no medical expert but i presume with all his hamstring injuries he won't be getting that pace back which you need at centre. I am not sure Fitz is very quick either.

[Brad]

Sat 8th Nov 2008 France 12 - 6 Argentina L International Match
Sat 9th Aug 2008 South Africa 63 - 9 Argentina L International Match
Sat 28th Jun 2008 Argentina 12 - 13 Italy L International Match
Sat 14th Jun 2008 Argentina 14 - 26 Scotland L International Match
Sat 7th Jun 2008 Argentina 21 - 15 Scotland W International Match

These results highlight HM83's up to date knowledge on rugby. Tis up there with his Michalak moment.

[Coogee]

Agreed - all this talk of BOD being back to his best is ridiculous. He has zero pace and it ain't like he is going to get it back.

Bod's pace is gone..too much mileage on the clock and too many injuries...happens to alot of the greats in all sports im afraid...dont think he'll make it to the next world cup at this rate and cant see him being effective for ireland anywhere else but at 12 for the next 1-2 years..