Should we have a General Election?

[BlackAvon08]

In light of the current financial circumstances and the Lisbon treaty outcome I believe we need to call a General Election.

The parties contested the last election on financial forecasts that were way off the mark. I believe the Government requires a mandate from the people for the corrective action that needs to take place.

The Lisbon treaty has left us at a crossroads – again the government needs a mandate from the people for the direction we decide to take.

It’s unhealthy to have a government in power, safe in the knowledge that they are unaccountable for another 4 years. These are crucial issues for our country and the people should have their voice heard.

[Actin The Sham]

In light of the current financial circumstances and the Lisbon treaty outcome I believe we need to call a General Election.

The parties contested the last election on financial forecasts that were way off the mark. I believe the Government requires a mandate from the people for the corrective action that needs to take place.

The Lisbon treaty has left us at a crossroads – again the government needs a mandate from the people for the direction we decide to take.

It’s unhealthy to have a government in power, safe in the knowledge that they are unaccountable for another 4 years. These are crucial issues for our country and the people should have their voice heard.

We all voted in the last election knowing that we were voting in a government for a five year term. The Lisbon treaty referendum was about one single issue. The economic circumstances will always change.

So the answer is no: the one thing the country needs right now is leadership and stability.

Some headbanger from Sinn Fein was on a radio station last week saying that he had "a mandate" because of the outcome of the Lisbon referendum. Make no mistake about this: Sinn Fein is a tiny party; when the PDs close down they will be the smallest party in the Dail, they have no mandate.

[Lamps]

I really don't see the point. I think Cowen is an idiot and windy into the baragin, but the opposition is all over the place. FF would piss it. Waste of money.

I do believe that if Dickie Bruton took over and there was a united Green,Labour,FG combo in charge that you'd have a more honest and better quality of politician in charge, but at the end of the day, there isn't much difference between most of them. I would 70% of them are in it for themselves.

If FG actually came up with some decent policies, say, halve FF waste, outline 10 steps by which they will do this then they might have a chance. Maybe start with my personal favourite, disband the seanad and the various committee's and quangos which are sucking this country dry. Also promise to halve the number of TD's by the time they run the next election.
Get every minister to provide receipts for each expense claimed and have an independent auditor rule the rule over every one.

Never happen though, cos they are all the same

[BlackAvon08]

We all voted in the last election knowing that we were voting in a government for a five year term. The Lisbon treaty referendum was about one single issue. The economic circumstances will always change.

So the answer is no: the one thing the country needs right now is leadership and stability.

Some headbanger from Sinn Fein was on a radio station last week saying that he had "a mandate" because of the outcome of the Lisbon referendum. Make no mistake about this: Sinn Fein is a tiny party; when the PDs close down they will be the smallest party in the Dail, they have no mandate.

FF based their election manifesto on a projected 4% growth in the economy for this year alone. As we all know this ain’t going to happen – we have a massive budget deficit. Their manifesto & program for government is null & void. Yes we need stability & leadership but we don’t appear to be getting it.

An election now would be the best way for the government to assert / re-assert their authority, thereby providing the much required leadership & stability. It would provide the government with the platform to go to the people, explain the situation and explain what they are going to do about it and ask for the peoples' backing. It would also put it up to the opposition parties – you know the situation, what would you do different / better? Democracy working at its best.

In relation to Lisbon, there is no clear next step forward. We are at a cross-roads, getting highly paid consultants to conduct surveys & opinion polls is not an acceptable method to assess public opinion. The political parties need to stand up for what they believe is the way forward, stand by their principles, explain their position, go to the people and let us decide.

[Arcadia]

I really don't see the point. I think Cowen is an idiot and windy into the baragin, but the opposition is all over the place. FF would piss it. Waste of money.

I do believe that if Dickie Bruton took over and there was a united Green,Labour,FG combo in charge that you'd have a more honest and better quality of politician in charge, but at the end of the day, there isn't much difference between most of them. I would 70% of them are in it for themselves.

If FG actually came up with some decent policies, say, halve FF waste, outline 10 steps by which they will do this then they might have a chance. Maybe start with my personal favourite, disband the seanad and the various committee's and quangos which are sucking this country dry. Also promise to halve the number of TD's by the time they run the next election.
Get every minister to provide receipts for each expense claimed and have an independent auditor rule the rule over every one.

Never happen though, cos they are all the same

100% correct.

[BlackAvon08]

I really don't see the point. I think Cowen is an idiot and windy into the baragin, but the opposition is all over the place. FF would piss it. Waste of money.

I do believe that if Dickie Bruton took over and there was a united Green,Labour,FG combo in charge that you'd have a more honest and better quality of politician in charge, but at the end of the day, there isn't much difference between most of them. I would 70% of them are in it for themselves.

If FG actually came up with some decent policies, say, halve FF waste, outline 10 steps by which they will do this then they might have a chance. Maybe start with my personal favourite, disband the seanad and the various committee's and quangos which are sucking this country dry. Also promise to halve the number of TD's by the time they run the next election.
Get every minister to provide receipts for each expense claimed and have an independent auditor rule the rule over every one.

Never happen though, cos they are all the same

If they are all the same then they only way to change them is an election or revolution…

The parties got it all too easy last time around, we had 10 years of boom time and the harsh winds of recession hadn’t begun (just a few “doomsday” economists "waffling" on about over inflated house prices etc)

This is an ideal time for an election. This is a time for genuine leaders to stand up and be counted. An election would give the people an opportunity to shaft the Fat Cats and put in place strong people with passion to do the right thing for their country. Such people do exist and will come to the fore in times of crises – given the opportunity (ie. an election!)

[Lamps]

If they are all the same then they only way to change them is an election or revolution…

The parties got it all too easy last time around, we had 10 years of boom time and the harsh winds of recession hadn’t begun (just a few “doomsday” economists "waffling" on about over inflated house prices etc)

This is an ideal time for an election. This is a time for genuine leaders to stand up and be counted. An election would give the people an opportunity to shaft the Fat Cats and put in place strong people with passion to do the right thing for their country. Such people do exist and will come to the fore in times of crises – given the opportunity (ie. an election!)

Give me a few names?

Joe Higgins got stabbed in the back by his own people for the price of a conservatory and an extra week in santa ponza.

[Eoin]

For once Lamps and ATS speak the truth.

Election now would be pointless.

As Lamps said, until the opposition can come up with a viable leader and some quality policies, FF will jsut keep getting elected.

Enda Kenny has to be gotten rid of for a start.

[BlackAvon08]

Give me a few names?


The only viable alternative is Rainbow government of FG/LAB/Greens. I agree that Enda Kenny has run his race & should go.

I’m not saying the alternative would be better. The Election isn’t necessarily about changing the people in power, it is about renewing their mandate with the people.

In my opinion the state of the country has changed dramatically since the last election. We now have people in power who effectively have no mandate as the basis on which they went into power has been shattered.

I want the incumbent government and the opposition to go to the people, layout the situation and put forward their strategy for recovery and their strategy post Lisbon. In this way the people will have a government who is accountable to the people and their progress can be measured against their program for government. At the moment we have a government who have can do what they want as their program for government & election promises are null & void. This is a dangerous place to be for our democracy.

[VzN]

The election would be a foregone conclusion though - it would only cost more money and who is to guarantee anything changing?

[Actin The Sham]

The only viable alternative is Rainbow government of FG/LAB/Greens. I agree that Enda Kenny has run his race & should go.

I’m not saying the alternative would be better. The Election isn’t necessarily about changing the people in power, it is about renewing their mandate with the people.

In my opinion the state of the country has changed dramatically since the last election. We now have people in power who effectively have no mandate as the basis on which they went into power has been shattered.

I want the incumbent government and the opposition to go to the people, layout the situation and put forward their strategy for recovery and their strategy post Lisbon. In this way the people will have a government who is accountable to the people and their progress can be measured against their program for government. At the moment we have a government who have can do what they want as their program for government & election promises are null & void. This is a dangerous place to be for our democracy.


What if another global financial crisis happens next march? Would you want another election then?

What if Al-Qaeda attacked Shannon Airport killing thousands of people? Would you want another election then?


What if Russia attacked Ukraine, and Germany responded throwing Europe into chaos? Would you want another election then?


What if my auntie had balls? Would she be my uncle?


The people have spoken last year. Every TD in the dáil has a mandate from his or her electorate. They will have a chance to renew that mandate in 2012, or sooner if the government collapses. To suggest that we have an election every time we have a crisis is ridiculous.

We need stability in times of crisis. I am not saying I agree with the government but I do know that we do not need an election, we had one last year, we will have another one in four years time.

[Lostmeringtopaddypower]

What if Al-Qaeda attacked Shannon Airport killing thousands of people?

Eh.......

Eh......

[BlackAvon08]

What if another global financial crisis happens next march? Would you want another election then?

What if Al-Qaeda attacked Shannon Airport killing thousands of people? Would you want another election then?


What if Russia attacked Ukraine, and Germany responded throwing Europe into chaos? Would you want another election then?


What if my auntie had balls? Would she be my uncle?


The people have spoken last year. Every TD in the dáil has a mandate from his or her electorate. They will have a chance to renew that mandate in 2012, or sooner if the government collapses. To suggest that we have an election every time we have a crisis is ridiculous.

We need stability in times of crisis. I am not saying I agree with the government but I do know that we do not need an election, we had one last year, we will have another one in four years time.

Yes global crises happen & they may have unforeseen effects on our country which our government have to manage.

However I put it to you that the there are cases when the prevailing environment changes so radically that a genuine reassessment is called for – in some cases a general election may be the best, most democratic & most stabilizing approach to take.

The FF manifesto while comprehensive & impressive is now totally redundant. This document is predicated on an annual average growth rate of 4.5% and our economy is in decline!! This is the document & these are the commitments that put FF back into power.

To quote the document: A sound economy is a “prerequisite for all our ambitions”…There is no reference to what we should do in the event of a contracting economy other than FF will deliver this country through any global downturn “with our fundamentals intact”. Clearly they are not doing this!

So what we have got now is a situation where the incumbent government have a blank canvas to work from. They are in cost cutting mode which most people will agree is a necessary evil, however they have no mandate what so ever on how or where to cut costs. Will it be at the expense of the rich or at the expense of the weak & vulnerable?

They are not accountable to the people for another four years which means they can railroad through whatever measures they like for the next 3 years, leaving one remaining year to court popularity again with the public’s money! This is not the way to run the country.

Is this government going to tackle the inefficiencies in the public sector and deliver genuine long-term savings and benefits to all or are they going to go for the easy savings by targeting the old, weak & vulnerable in our society? The answer is we simply don’t know!! This is not good enough – we pay them enough to know what their plans are.

Throw in the Lisbon affair into the mix. The eventual direction we take will have a profound effect on our country and our government has no coherent strategy.

What will a General Election achieve?

It will force all parties to come to terms with the current state of affairs and openly set out their recovery plans – at the moment they are hiding behind terms like “global financial crisis”. If FF get back into power again – fair enough that’s democracy but we will have achieved a government that is ACCOUNTABLE to the people. They would have to set out their stall, tell us what they are going to do, where they are going to save money & where they are going to spend. At least then we will know where we are going and we can measure their progress and make them accountable for their actions.

IMO FF's last election manifesto was a gross deception & an insult to the people they claim to serve.

[Actin The Sham]

IMO FF's last election manifesto was a gross deception & an insult to the people they claim to serve.

The same can be said for the "No" campaign in the Lisbon Treaty Referendum. But this is a democracy, and short of having weekly general elections because of rapidly changing circumstances there is nothing anyone can do about it.

And no matter what government was in power right now, the international credit crunch, the global financial crisis, high oil prices, rising food prices, and climate change are all issues that will have a huge impact on the way this country develops.

You can't say that just because a manifesto becomes redundant due to changed circumstances that a government suddenly loses it's mandate.

If you want to be involved in voting every day on every issue, then get yourself elected at the next local election. That is what our elected representatives do: vote on our behalf.

But we can't drag the whole country through an expensive general election just because circumstances change.

[Actin The Sham]

Eh.......

Eh......

OK, maybe "hundreds of people" then.

[BlackAvon08]

The same can be said for the "No" campaign in the Lisbon Treaty Referendum. But this is a democracy, and short of having weekly general elections because of rapidly changing circumstances there is nothing anyone can do about it.

And no matter what government was in power right now, the international credit crunch, the global financial crisis, high oil prices, rising food prices, and climate change are all issues that will have a huge impact on the way this country develops.

You can't say that just because a manifesto becomes redundant due to changed circumstances that a government suddenly loses it's mandate.

If you want to be involved in voting every day on every issue, then get yourself elected at the next local election. That is what our elected representatives do: vote on our behalf.

But we can't drag the whole country through an expensive general election just because circumstances change.

I respect your opinion but please don’t misrepresent mine…I haven’t said we should be holding general elections at every crisis we hit. However, there are rare & exceptional circumstances when a general election is the correct course of action to take. There is precedent where governments lose the confidence of the people & elections are called. I’m of the opinion that the government hasn’t got the credibility or ability to manage this crisis. I have No Confidence in them. Judging by the reaction to this post I’m in a minority here – I guess that’s life & democracy! :?

[Actin The Sham]

I respect your opinion but please don’t misrepresent mine…I haven’t said we should be holding general elections at every crisis we hit. However, there are rare & exceptional circumstances when a general election is the correct course of action to take. There is precedent where governments lose the confidence of the people & elections are called. I’m of the opinion that the government hasn’t got the credibility or ability to manage this crisis. I have No Confidence in them. Judging by the reaction to this post I’m in a minority here – I guess that’s life & democracy! :?


I'm curious for you to post such precedents so that I can analyse them and compare and contrast them with the circumstances which prevail today. I can remember where governments have called elections because they have lost votes of confidence in the dáil, but I can't think of any precedent where they have called an election because of losing the confidence of the people.

Normally a government with a healthy majority puts itself before the peoples representatives in Dáil Eireann every time it presents a bill for approval. If the "people have lost confidence" then a sufficient number of the peoples democratically elected representatives will vote accordingly, and the government having lost a vote of no confidence will normally dissolve the dáil and call a general election. In certain cases, namely the resignation of Albert Reynolds, the government will resign, and a new government will be formed without an election as happened when John Bruton took over as Taoiseach after Labour pulled out of government with FF over the Father Brendan Smyth affiar.


Governments will also call a snap election if they feel they can get an increased majority; a tactic which spectacularly backfired on Charlie Haughey. And if I misrepresented your opinion, then sorry, I thought that what you were saying is that conditions have changes since we last voted 16 months ago and that because of those changed economic circumstances we should have a general election, in spite of the fact that all of the parties in the last election made clear that their spending estimates were based on the assumption that our economy would continue to grow.

[BlackAvon08]

I'm curious for you to post such precedents so that I can analyse them and compare and contrast them with the circumstances which prevail today. I can remember where governments have called elections because they have lost votes of confidence in the dáil, but I can't think of any precedent where they have called an election because of losing the confidence of the people.

Normally a government with a healthy majority puts itself before the peoples representatives in Dáil Eireann every time it presents a bill for approval. If the "people have lost confidence" then a sufficient number of the peoples democratically elected representatives will vote accordingly, and the government having lost a vote of no confidence will normally dissolve the dáil and call a general election. In certain cases, namely the resignation of Albert Reynolds, the government will resign, and a new government will be formed without an election as happened when John Bruton took over as Taoiseach after Labour pulled out of government with FF over the Father Brendan Smyth affiar.


Governments will also call a snap election if they feel they can get an increased majority; a tactic which spectacularly backfired on Charlie Haughey. And if I misrepresented your opinion, then sorry, I thought that what you were saying is that conditions have changes since we last voted 16 months ago and that because of those changed economic circumstances we should have a general election, in spite of the fact that all of the parties in the last election made clear that their spending estimates were based on the assumption that our economy would continue to grow.

When governments lose the confidence of the Dáil it is often caused by the loss of confidence of the people in general. TD’s reflect the fears and concerns of the general public which can lead to Governments loosing Dáil votes – which can in turn mean the dissolution of the Dáil. One precedent being the Fitzgerald government of 1982.

People are nervous about the current global & national economic crisis but I also get a sense that people are loosing confidence in the government’s ability to lead us through these times. However it seems to me that there is a fatalistic approach out there – ‘ah well they fooled us at the last election (again) but we’re stuck with them for another 4 – 5 years’.

The people have power to change things – however somehow our government seems to have distanced itself from the people – they are almost untouchable which is very bad for democracy.

IMO this distancing is caused by three factors: 1) FF have been in power far too long. 2) The ineffectiveness of all opposition parties. 3) The willingness of all parties other that FG to go into power with FF. I believe the 3rd point is probably the most influential factor as it leads to the perception that FF will always be in power and the only thing to change is which small party will prop it up.

I accept that all parties based their manifestos on projected economic growth (FF are more culpable as they had access to the real figures). In a sense that’s my point, none of the parties had planned for the situation we are in now. The Economic landscape has changed dramatically and we are flying blind. The government program is in disarray, we are hearing mad cap cost saving stories and we are having an emergency budget. IMO this is all scary stuff – where is the control & stability??

If the Greens, Independents & some of the FF backbenchers started to get nervous because of grassroots unease – then you never know…As I say I think an election would be good for the country regardless of who wins as it would bring back political accountability. I know I appear to be in a minority here.

[BlackAvon08]

In light of the current financial circumstances and the Lisbon treaty outcome I believe we need to call a General Election.

The parties contested the last election on financial forecasts that were way off the mark. I believe the Government requires a mandate from the people for the corrective action that needs to take place.

The Lisbon treaty has left us at a crossroads – again the government needs a mandate from the people for the direction we decide to take.

It’s unhealthy to have a government in power, safe in the knowledge that they are unaccountable for another 4 years. These are crucial issues for our country and the people should have their voice heard.

Bump...

Any takers for a GE now?

[Actin The Sham]

Bump...

Any takers for a GE now?

I think you should just change this thread to "How can we get rid of Fianna Fáil."

A general election might happen after the budget anyway. But elections are expensive and would lead to about six weeks of political inertia with nobody making any decisions and everyone arguing with each other while the international financial markets look on. We do not have to have an election to have a change of government: in fact, I think we should be precluded from having an election more frequently than every five years. The people voted in the TD's and the TD's now have to run the country. If the TD's think that the current government isn't up to it, then form a new one. The President should refuse to accept any dissolution of the dáil and ask the sitting TD's to form a government if the current one collapses.

Then use the money that would have been spent on an election on something more worthwhile. This isn't a game where supporters can cheerlead their favourite teams, this is extremely important.

[Lamps]

Its extremely important but rightly or wrongly it is very much a game where people cheer on their favourite team. But when you have formerly honourable politicians like the Greens had folding up their principles and putting them away it would make you despair.

I've come to the realisation that I want them all to fail just to varying degrees. I sky plus'd the reeling in the years series there a few months back and watched a bunch of them over the weekend. It was wall to wall dirty sleveens and trickster politicians on the make. Year after year after year. And despite this, in the last election we gave FF the go ahead. Knowing what FF are, the greens went in with them. Labour will do the same if given the chance.

Time to take our medicine now.

[hemlock666]

A general election would be a complete waste of time and money.

What we need is a reworking of the public service and layoffs where necessary. I know public servants out there will abhor the idea but it is vital for the country and it is insane to think the status quo can remain.
Also an immediate process of accountability for any & all government spending need to be implimented so the waste stops now.
An across the board freeze on all government expenses not directly used within the confines of leinster house. No more free cars flights or dinners. Time for the overpaid political elite to put their hands in their own pockets for transport, lunches etc etc like the rest of us who still have jobs have always had to do.
Performance linked payscales for all public servants over 30K.

We need to get politicians & a public service who give us value for the money they're paid before we should even consider any electoral changes.

[Actin The Sham]

We hired an extra 40,000 public sector workers during the last five years.

Do we need the same number of people handling planning applications as we did during the building boom?

Do we need the same number of people working in the motor tax offices now that there are 70% fewer cars being registered?

If we were able to we should transfer them to the social welfare offices.



We can't transfer people between departments for some reason.

I find that amazing to be honest.

[Bennyton]

yes we should have an election, but not until ff fuck things up so much that the aul cunts will switch parties.

[Cork]

Do we need the same number of people handling planning applications as we did during the building boom?

Do we need the same number of people working in the motor tax offices now that there are 70% fewer cars being registered?

We do not.

We don't even need one local authority per county.

We have one rugby team representing Munster & yet countless local authorities.

Yet FF got less than 30% in the last local government elections - what have FG or Labour done to reform local government??

There needs to be re-organisation big time of how the public sector operates in this country.

It is operating in the dark ages.

[jd26]

Well, S&P have just downgraded us and one of their reasons was

a credible multi-year fiscal consolidation strategy will not emerge until after the next general elections, due by 2012

So basically not having an election is going to start costing us a packet.

[Lamps]

I heard that interview on newstalk this morning. Pretty shocked to hear it.

He was very matter of a fact, and didn't blame FF personally, just said that it was the norm after economic collapses. Interesting

[johnmcork]

There will be an election this year.
ireland only has elections in the summer/autumn.

There is a very tough budget coming next week.
There is rumours of the govt. cutting the old age pension.
As evidenced by the over 70's medical card debacle, widespread dissatisafaction at this and the subsequent slide in the polls for FF, pensioners are the most politically active and miltant people in the country, fare play to them.
people our age just write cynical shit on the internet like 'they're all the same...' (incisive stuff indeed).
if they are in fact the all the same, why do we only bother electing Fianna Fail? how can we say they're all the same when we don't try the others out?
We need an election now to rid this country of clannish, clientelistic, wasteful, electorally conscious rather than strategically prudent, corrupt institution called Fianna Fail. (i call them ba'aath fianna fail.)

if you think they're all the same, at least try to mix it up a bit instead of having 1 party in power for 80% of the history of the state. This is not a democracy, its a fianna failocracy.
not voting is a vote for FF.

[Jim Comic]

S&P recommend/demand regime change... interesting

[johnmcork]

I think you should just change this thread to "How can we get rid of Fianna Fáil."

A general election might happen after the budget anyway. But elections are expensive and would lead to about six weeks of political inertia with nobody making any decisions and everyone arguing with each other while the international financial markets look on. We do not have to have an election to have a change of government: in fact, I think we should be precluded from having an election more frequently than every five years. The people voted in the TD's and the TD's now have to run the country. If the TD's think that the current government isn't up to it, then form a new one. The President should refuse to accept any dissolution of the dáil and ask the sitting TD's to form a government if the current one collapses.

Then use the money that would have been spent on an election on something more worthwhile. This isn't a game where supporters can cheerlead their favourite teams, this is extremely important.

i'm pretty sure that that's unconstitutional

[Actin The Sham]

i'm pretty sure that that's unconstitutional


When Albert Reynolds resigned in 1994, after the labour party pulled out of government, the TD's in the dáil voted to elect John Bruton as taoiseach. No general election took place.
The dáil was not dissolved, Albert Reynolds merely resigned as taoiseach.


This is from wikipedia, so I cannot vouch for it's accuracy, but take from it what you will:

The Taoiseach is required to resign if he has "ceased to retain the support of a majority" of the Dáil, unless he asks the President to dissolve the Dáil. The President has the right to refuse such a request, in which case the Taoiseach must resign immediately. This power has never been invoked but the necessary circumstances existed in 1944, 1982 and 1994. The apparent discrepancy between the Irish and English versions of the Constitution has discouraged presidents from contemplating the use of the power and led to an ultra-strict application of a policy of non-contact with the opposition, most notably in January 1982 when President Hillery instructed an aide, Captain Anthony Barber, to ensure that no telephone calls from the opposition were to be passed on to him. (Nevertheless three opposition figures, including Fianna Fáil leader Charles Haughey, demanded to be put through to Hillery, with Haughey threatening to end Barber's career if the calls weren't put though. Hillery, as Commander-in-Chief of the Defence Forces, recorded the threat in Barber's file and recorded that Barber had been acting on his instructions in refusing the call[10]). Even without this consideration, refusing such a request would arguably create a constitutional crisis, as it can be seen as a constitutional convention that the head of state always grants a parliamentary dissolution. Having said this, President Mary Robinson, who had been a distinguished constitutional lawyer, has stated that she would have refused Albert Reynolds a dissolution if he had asked for one after falling from office in 1994.

*****

[Actin The Sham]

Well, S&P have just downgraded us and one of their reasons was



So basically not having an election is going to start costing us a packet.

Firstly, I think that we should have more of an input from Richard Bruton, and I also think that Fianna Fail should tell Fine Gael and Labour what the target reduction in spending is rather than giving them loads of waffle from civil servants in the department of finance. I also think that a general election right now would not be helpful, but that does not mean that there cannot be a change of government. Having said that, I think it is prudent to look at the messenger in this case.

S&P, sells financial advice. It's prediction here is sloppy in the extreme. Even Fine Gael and Labour have said that they are willing to work with Fianna Fáil to implement a five year plan. The EU Commission has as recently as last week accepted that the reconstruction of our economy will take five years. But S&P, the people who gave Lehmann Brothers an AAA rating the week before they collapsed think differently. S&P also gave Collaterised Debt Obligations issued by Credit Suisse a triple A rating just before investors lost about $125 Million on a $340 Million transaction twelve months ago.

They also maintained Iceland's triple A rating just as it's economy collapsed. McGraw-Hill, who own S&P were one of the causes of the global financial crisis, precisely because of their flawed predictions. I accept that other failed institutions like Bank Of America, and Royal Bank of Scotland place great faith on what rating agencies like S&P tell them, but I tend to place more faith in people like the ECB and the EU commission.

Listening to McGraw Hill and S&P right now, based on the events of the past two to three years is akin to accepting financial advice from Sean Fitzpatrick.


:lol:

[chabal]

Should we have a General Election?

that'll cost us more money. we should have a revolution, throw the current shits out, cancel their pensions, throw some of them in jail, and start a fresh with about half the number of TDs, we don't need so many

[REMIMUFC]

no

[Castlehaven Erbel]

Barack and Cowen photographed together at a summit in Prague at the weekend.

May God have mercy on us all.

[chabal]

a famous writer once said everyone has the face they deserve by the age of 40!!! What kind of a prick must Cowan be to deserve a face like that???

[cork1]

no we should have an execution!