Gormley dismisses Cork vote of no confidence

[BlackAvon08]

Gormley dismisses Cork vote of no confidence
09/09/2008 - 16:34:14

Green Party Minister John Gormley has dismissed Cork County Council’s unprecedented vote of no confidence in him as “political opportunism”.

The council took the step yesterday of passing a vote of no confidence in the Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Government over his handling of the Haulbowline toxic site scandal.

Angry councillors accused the Minister of snubbing local representatives, since the extent of the toxic problem emerged last June.

There is an estimated 500,000 tonnes of toxic waste buried at the former Irish Steel site, including carcinogenic materials such as Chromium 6. Ironically, the vote of no confidence came as the minister prepared to meet with councillors this Friday to discuss the issue.

A spokesperson for Minister Gormley said: “The minister has met with Dáil and Seanad members and community groups in the harbour to discuss this issue.

“It is very disappointing to hear Cork County Council has taken a vote of no confidence when they are due to meet the minister on Friday. This seems to be political opportunism rather than concern for people in the area.”

Cobh-based Labour councillor John Mulvihill called for the vote at County Hall yesterday amid cross-party concerns over the minister’s handling of the situation.




Cllr Mulvihill said: “We have been totally snubbed by the minister for months. This is a very serious issue in the harbour area. He is not doing the job he has been put in to do. I don’t want to play politics with this but the minister hasn’t even had the decency to meet those who are elected to represent the people affected by this toxic site.”

Labour’s Cllr John Gilroy added: “This is the biggest environmental disaster in the history of Cork and the minister has given the impression he has something to hide.”

County manager Martin Riordan urged councillors to delay the vote until after the meeting with the minister this week, asking: “Is it wise to pass a vote of no confidence before you hear what the minister has to say on the issue?”

However, the vote of no confidence was passed by 24 votes to nine, with county mayor Cllr Noel Harrington abstaining.

Fianna Fáil’s Cllr Kevin O’Keeffe criticised the decision: “This council has lost all its credibility. We have become a kangaroo court.”

Article courtesy of The Evening Echo newspaper
http://www.examiner.ie/breaking/ireland/mhqlgbsnkfgb/

[Red Star Hardkore]

Ah well, it's the Cork people being selfish again. I mean come on, as long as people in Dublin aren't living next to a dumpsite for carcinogenic chemicals then everything is a-ok. Right?

[Actin The Sham]

John Gormley's idea of being "Minister For The Environment," essentially consists of attending photoshoots with local Green Party activists wearing wellingtons in the floods in Carlow, being pictured driving his Toyota Pious," mooting the idea of a carbon tax on petrol and diesel, and calling on people to change their habits. He is also dead set against the idea of a waste incinerator in his own constituency.

But ask him to deal with a real live environmental disaster, and he goes to ground. Then when the democratically elected representatives of the people who are exposed to this disaster criticise his inaction, he calls it "political opportunism."

He and his fellow party members have been spinning this "political opportunism" line for over a year now, since they got into power. He should now realise that the honeymoon is over.

[Lamps]

John Gormley's idea of being "Minister For The Environment," essentially consists of attending photoshoots with local Green Party activists wearing wellingtons in the floods in Carlow, being pictured driving his Toyota Pious," mooting the idea of a carbon tax on petrol and diesel, and calling on people to change their habits. He is also dead set against the idea of a waste incinerator in his own constituency.

But ask him to deal with a real live environmental disaster, and he goes to ground. Then when the democratically elected representatives of the people who are exposed to this disaster criticise his inaction, he calls it "political opportunism."

He and his fellow party members have been spinning this "political opportunism" line for over a year now, since they got into power. He should now realise that the honeymoon is over.

amen

[BlackAvon08]

John Gormley's idea of being "Minister For The Environment," essentially consists of attending photoshoots with local Green Party activists wearing wellingtons in the floods in Carlow, being pictured driving his Toyota Pious," mooting the idea of a carbon tax on petrol and diesel, and calling on people to change their habits. He is also dead set against the idea of a waste incinerator in his own constituency.

But ask him to deal with a real live environmental disaster, and he goes to ground. Then when the democratically elected representatives of the people who are exposed to this disaster criticise his inaction, he calls it "political opportunism."

He and his fellow party members have been spinning this "political opportunism" line for over a year now, since they got into power. He should now realise that the honeymoon is over.

Exactly right.

What troubles me is that if the Green Party Minister for the Environment isn’t going to take responsibility for this – who the hell can we turn to??

[Arcadia]

Nothing done on Haulbowline !!!

"political opportunism" ?

What else could this body do ?

Form an angry mob ?

Write a strongly worded letter and C.C.The Irish Toimez ?

Serve the people Gormless and LISTEN to their cocerns during your short tenure in power.

Remember you put you there.

[DBTD]

Of course he was right to ignore this vote. It was an empty cynical statement made by people who have much to be guilty about in relation to Haulbowline. Those behind the motion knew very well they were meeting John Gormley tomorrow. Quite a lot has been done on Haulbowline, certainly more than any previous Minister for the Environment and the extent of this will be seen by the end of the month.

[Arcadia]

Of course he was right to ignore this vote. It was an empty cynical statement made by people who have much to be guilty about in relation to Haulbowline. Those behind the motion knew very well they were meeting John Gormley tomorrow. Quite a lot has been done on Haulbowline, certainly more than any previous Minister for the Environment and the extent of this will be seen by the end of the month.

Please outline exactly what has been done on Haulbowline.

There was a U.C.C. Professor on Matt Cooper during the week saying that nothing has been done.

Expect the usual aspirational vague promises from Gormley cloaked in P.R. non-commital doublespeak with the usual "Previous Minister did nothing" response and even less money to clear up this mess in accordance with best practice.

i.e.

We are looking into it and are comissioning a report and have to wait for that - I have met with bladee bladee blah and all interested parties.I am here are'nt I after all ?

The report will probably have a € figure on the last page.

Funding required from Central Government to clean this up etc will be sought and I will express concern to Cabinet etc.

It should be interesting.

[DBTD]

Consultants, White Young Green, were engaged in July to test for current levels of hazardous materials still on the Island, and whether these materials are causing an environmental risk caused by recent work. Those results will be completed by the end of this month. They will form the basis of the report that the Minister will make to the cabinet. The UCC professsor, Prof. Heffron I presume, wouldn't be aware of any of this. If he was referring that no further material has been removed from the island, that of course is true, and it will remain true until the cabinet has made a decision. That decision I'm certain will be to engage in a further clean up, under more controlled conditions.

[BlackAvon08]

Consultants, White Young Green, were engaged in July to test for current levels of hazardous materials still on the Island, and whether these materials are causing an environmental risk caused by recent work. Those results will be completed by the end of this month. They will form the basis of the report that the Minister will make to the cabinet. The UCC professsor, Prof. Heffron I presume, wouldn't be aware of any of this. If he was referring that no further material has been removed from the island, that of course is true, and it will remain true until the cabinet has made a decision. That decision I'm certain will be to engage in a further clean up, under more controlled conditions.

DBTD, so you believe that the cabinet will decide on “a further clean up, under more controlled conditions”. However you or your Minister at the table cannot guarantee this decision. I understand the concept of collective cabinet responsibility and all that. However, the very least I would expect from a Green Environment Minister is that he/she would guarantee that this disgraceful environmental hazard would be dealt with to the highest of international standards in a timely fashion. This is the least the people of the Cork Harbour area deserve. You and your Minister have not delivered this. Even at this late stage you cannot reassure us that it will happen down the line. The Green Party in Government have failed to deliver on one of their first key environmental challenges. You have let down the people of Cork.

The Green Party are the new PDs – a small toothless party propping up a stale FF Government.

By the way, should you not change to DBFTD?

[deeptek]

The Green Party are the new PDs – a small toothless party propping up a stale FF Government.



Amen to that. Just there to make up the numbers it seems. Won't get a vote from me again..thats for sure!

[Riordan]

By the way, should you not change to DBFTD?

lol, be nice.

Just leaving aside my disappointment with the Green party for a lil while.Fair fucks to Dan for coming on here in the firstplace, theses not many who would. Cheers Dan.

BTW Dan, I voted Green last time round, and was over-the-moon when ye went into Government, but I wont be voting for a Green Party member for a long ole time. Ye have let a lot of people down and yourselves down by being pushed around by FF.

The Green Parties time in Government will be summed up by 'Carbon Tax'.

[Actin The Sham]

Of course he was right to ignore this vote. It was an empty cynical statement made by people who have much to be guilty about in relation to Haulbowline. Those behind the motion knew very well they were meeting John Gormley tomorrow. Quite a lot has been done on Haulbowline, certainly more than any previous Minister for the Environment and the extent of this will be seen by the end of the month.

Please now Dan, don't take this the wrong way, I admire you for coming on here, and I do try to understand the rationale behind the decisions made by your colleagues. However, to say that the Minister For The Environment of the Republic Of Ireland was right to ignore the vote of the local authority of the largest county in the country, representing almost half a million people is hardly the right thing to say. Now, I know you may not have meant to say that, and I know that it can be frustrating to have to put up with this kind of thing when you are trying to deal with global warming and carbon emissions. But in the context of the Minister For the Environment, the very minister responsible for local government to say that he is right to ignore a vote democratically taken by elected councillors sitting on Cork County Council is frankly shocking.

I hope that is not the party's approach to local democracy, because if it is, then truly we are completely snookered.

[Langer Dan]

Please now Dan, don't take this the wrong way, I admire you for coming on here, and I do try to understand the rationale behind the decisions made by your colleagues. However, to say that the Minister For The Environment of the Republic Of Ireland was right to ignore the vote of the local authority of the largest county in the country, representing almost half a million people is hardly the right thing to say. Now, I know you may not have meant to say that, and I know that it can be frustrating to have to put up with this kind of thing when you are trying to deal with global warming and carbon emissions. But in the context of the Minister For the Environment, the very minister responsible for local government to say that he is right to ignore a vote democratically taken by elected councillors sitting on Cork County Council is frankly shocking.

I hope that is not the party's approach to local democracy, because if it is, then truly we are completely snookered.


Excellant post!

[Arcadia]

Gormley being a smartass on Matt Cooper right now on the subject

[DBTD]

Yes I do believe the clean up will happen. 100,000 tonnes has already been
moved, even if the manner of the removal is now seen to be suspect.This vote of confidence is a farce. It was moved out of pique because the Minister hasn't personally met with the councillors concerned, despite their having met with department officials and consultants throughout the Summer (such as it was), and been given access to whatever information about the site that they sought. Information that has been closely guarded by department officials and previous Ministers for the Environment. The motion was cynically moved on Monday in the full knowledge that the Minister was to meet with them on Friday. It was moved by a public representative who has most to be embarrassed about his actions on Haulbowline. As a former TD in a previous government, he was the chief leader for the Irish Steel/Ispat deal where the State sold the company for 1 punt, took on 28 million of Irish Steel debt, gave Ispat 2.6 million for environmental improvement works (that never happened) along with an environmental guarantee to Ispat, that ensured that the State recovered not a brass farthing from them for clean up work once the company up and left in 2001. How dare he and party throw these accusations without any hint of shame on their part.

[BlackAvon08]

[QUOTE=Riordan;222928 1]lol, be nice.

Just leaving aside my disappointment with the Green party for a lil while.Fair fucks to Dan for coming on here in the firstplace, theses not many who would. Cheers Dan.
QUOTE]

It’s only a minor jibe…Yes fair play for coming on the forum but he is coming out with non-committal clap trap that even the most cynical of seasoned government hacks would be proud of. It’s hard to take it from a man who has made a career out of preaching down at the rest of us from his high moral ground before jumping into bed with FF.

[BlackAvon08]

Yes I do believe the clean up will happen. 100,000 tonnes has already been
moved, even if the manner of the removal is now seen to be suspect.This vote of confidence is a farce. It was moved out of pique because the Minister hasn't personally met with the councillors concerned, despite their having met with department officials and consultants throughout the Summer (such as it was), and been given access to whatever information about the site that they sought. Information that has been closely guarded by department officials and previous Ministers for the Environment. The motion was cynically moved on Monday in the full knowledge that the Minister was to meet with them on Friday. It was moved by a public representative who has most to be embarrassed about his actions on Haulbowline. As a former TD in a previous government, he was the chief leader for the Irish Steel/Ispat deal where the State sold the company for 1 punt, took on 28 million of Irish Steel debt, gave Ispat 2.6 million for environmental improvement works (that never happened) along with an environmental guarantee to Ispat, that ensured that the State recovered not a brass farthing from them for clean up work once the company up and left in 2001. How dare he and party throw these accusations without any hint of shame on their part.

The Green Party cannot espouse democracy and choose to ignore the vote of a democratically elected chamber – end of story.

Throwing mud and blame at previous administrations will not solve the problem. The Greens are not in opposition now. They are in a privileged position of power and are entrusted with the task of executing the State’s responsibility in this matter. To date they have failed the people of Cork miserably. Even now they cannot guarantee the safe cleanup of the material in question.

[DBTD]

I will always engage, but I also realise that there will always be people, no matter what I say or do, who will never believe a word I say. I'm honest to myself. I'll let others work out how honest they think that is. I don't think I've ever occupied any moral high ground and I don't think I have ever used the type of angry rhetoric that people seem free to use against me. Ah well no one forced me to do this.

[BlackAvon08]

I will always engage, but I also realise that there will always be people, no matter what I say or do, who will never believe a word I say. I'm honest to myself. I'll let others work out how honest they think that is. I don't think I've ever occupied any moral high ground and I don't think I have ever used the type of angry rhetoric that people seem free to use against me. Ah well no one forced me to do this.

I’m not sure if I’m guilty of using angry rhetoric. If I am I apologise as it only serves to deflect from my arguments.

[Actin The Sham]

I will always engage, but I also realise that there will always be people, no matter what I say or do, who will never believe a word I say. I'm honest to myself. I'll let others work out how honest they think that is. I don't think I've ever occupied any moral high ground and I don't think I have ever used the type of angry rhetoric that people seem free to use against me. Ah well no one forced me to do this.

You made valid points about the reasoning behind the vote of no confidence passed by Cork County Council, and also pointed out the failures of previous incumbents. I wasn't aware of all of the facts, so thank you. But surely Dan, and again, I applaud you for coming on here under your own name, while we can all hide behind annonymous user names, you can see that notwithstanding the motivation behind tabling the motion, the motion was passed by a majority of the democratically elected councillors representing this county, and for the Minister For The Environment to dismiss this as "political opportunism," is an affront to the voters of Cork, in my humble opinion. Especially as this minister is the one who has the authority to devolve more power to local government.

However it was meant, the statement came across as arrogance.

And I am in no way a supporter of John Mulvihill, in fact I disagree with most if not all of his policies and what he and his party stands for: but this was a motion passed by a majority of Cork County Council, and I think you need to differentiate between the tabling of a motion, which could be called politically opportunistic, but not the susbsequent adoption and passing of the motion, which is a completely different matter. I hope you understand where I am coming from now on this.

[DBTD]

I was a councillor for 11 years. I know these motions to be nothing but political posturing. A government Minister is accountable to the Dáil and there is the only place where a vote of confidence can validly be moved. Again I stress the confidence vote here was based on the perceived slight of the Minister not meeting the councillors themselves in a timely and suitable way for them. That's prima donna politics and it's not serving the interests of the people who elected them.

[Alright!]

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are to blame for all the pollution in Cork harbour. They should be held accountable for their actions all those years ago.

[Actin The Sham]

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are to blame for all the pollution in Cork harbour. They should be held accountable for their actions all those years ago.

The Labour Party was part of the government that sold Irish Steel to ISPAT for £1.

FF, FG, and Labour are equally to blame. And John Mulvihill knew exactly what was going on. His behaviour at the public meeting which John Gormley called to take questions was an absolute disgrace, and anyone who ever voted for him should be ashamed. I am sure people on here will know that I am no fan of the Green Party, but John Gormley was at least prepared to hold a public meeting. John Mulvihill is a yob, a political bootboy, a disgrace to Cobh, and an embarrassment to Cork.

[Alright!]

Totally agree with you Actin The Sham. The Labour Party are partly to blame for the pollution at Haulbowline in Cork harbour. Cobh based councillor John Mulvihill was revealed to be a complete loud-mouthed asshole who only cares about himself and no one else. He should resign and stop depriving the people of Cobh of decent representation. Otherwise the Labour Party should sack him and do us all a favour. At least now we know who Labour's answer to Noel O'Flynn (FF) is - John Mulvihill in Cobh.

[BlackAvon08]

The Labour Party was part of the government that sold Irish Steel to ISPAT for £1.

FF, FG, and Labour are equally to blame. And John Mulvihill knew exactly what was going on. His behaviour at the public meeting which John Gormley called to take questions was an absolute disgrace, and anyone who ever voted for him should be ashamed. I am sure people on here will know that I am no fan of the Green Party, but John Gormley was at least prepared to hold a public meeting. John Mulvihill is a yob, a political bootboy, a disgrace to Cobh, and an embarrassment to Cork.


I agree with you on Mulvihill however I don’t believe there is any value what so ever in apportioning blame on individual political parties.

The bottom line is that the State is responsible for the pollution and is responsible for the safe clean up.

The government of the day is there to execute the State’s responsibilities. It so happens that Gormely is the minister tasked with this responsibility now. To-date the clean-up efforts have been shockingly poor (in my view) and therefore I hold the Government & in particular the Environment Minister accountable.

Gormely does himself no favours by washing his hands of the pollution in the first place. Fair enough he wasn’t around at the time, in fact most of the current cabinet were not around – but he is responsible for the current state of affairs – regardless of the original causes.

He is missing the crucial point – once he accepted his ministerial seal of office and all the other trappings of power, he also accepted the ownership executing State responsibilities. He has to accept responsibility of managing the outcome of State actions, be they good or bad.

The “it’s not our fault” sound bites suggests to me that he hasn’t fully shouldered his responsibilities as a senior cabinet minister.

[Actin The Sham]

I agree with you on Mulvihill however I don’t believe there is any value what so ever in apportioning blame on individual political parties.

The bottom line is that the State is responsible for the pollution and is responsible for the safe clean up.

The government of the day is there to execute the State’s responsibilities. It so happens that Gormely is the minister tasked with this responsibility now. To-date the clean-up efforts have been shockingly poor (in my view) and therefore I hold the Government & in particular the Environment Minister accountable.

Gormely does himself no favours by washing his hands of the pollution in the first place. Fair enough he wasn’t around at the time, in fact most of the current cabinet were not around – but he is responsible for the current state of affairs – regardless of the original causes.

He is missing the crucial point – once he accepted his ministerial seal of office and all the other trappings of power, he also accepted the ownership executing State responsibilities. He has to accept responsibility of managing the outcome of State actions, be they good or bad.

The “it’s not our fault” sound bites suggests to me that he hasn’t fully shouldered his responsibilities as a senior cabinet minister.


I agree with you, I just wanted to point out how bad John Mulvihills antics were.

[the puerto rican feen]

Down to the real issue,

what is going to be done about this waste ?

When is it going to be done ?

I do not want to hear where money is an issue from Green Party Minister for the Environment on a critical issue.

How hard is to figure out the extent of this ?

Core samples to a depth of 30ft in most sectors of the site, would be sufficient, and sample analysis every ft to see what materials are present, or am I being unrealistic here ?

Also, Dan, if this is not solved to the satisfaction of the residents of the harbour area would you consider leaving the Green Party ?



Check this site out on a reclamation of a coking works in the UK, the UK goverment paid 104.5 Million STG for the regeneration of the site.
http://www.theavenueproject .co.uk/default.aspx