Reducing Speed Limits by 20Kph - Greens

[Arcadia]

Proposal to reduce speed limits by 20km/h
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PROPOSAL to reduce speed limits by up to 20km/h is one of the options being considered in a sustainable travel plan being drawn up for Government.

The Sustainable Travel and Transport Plan, which is currently being finalised by the Department of Transport, is examining all measures that would lead to a reduction of greenhouse emissions in the transport sector.

A spokesman yesterday confirmed that a reduction in speed limits was one of the measures being considered along with many others and, at this stage, could not be ruled in or ruled out.

Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey is expected to bring the overall plan to Cabinet later this year with a view to implementing it from early 2009.

The case for a reduction in the limits – from 120km/h to 100km/h on motorways and 100km/h to 80km/h on all other national roads – will also be made at the next meeting of the cabinet sub-committee on climate change, according to Green Party chairman Senator Dan Boyle.

Mr Boyle said similar reductions had been successfully introduced in Spain this year. He said it had been established that lowering the limits by 20km/h would lead to a significant reduction in carbon emissions.

“There has been a shortage of [Government] measures that have an immediate and short-term effect,” he said. “The majority of measures introduced are medium to long term.”

Asked was this an implicit criticism of a coalition where colleagues are Ministers, Mr Boyle said: “What it is, is telling it like it is. There’s a strong commitment from the Green Party to a 3 per cent reduction in carbon emissions every year.

“The overall emissions figures for 2007 look like they will stay high or even higher [than those for 2006]. We need big ticket items and we need them urgently.

“I anticipate a negative reaction from the public if they are introduced. It is not a political priority of the Green Party to avoid making unpopular choices,” he said.

When asked has the suggestion been proposed to Government by the two Green Ministers, Mr Boyle said: “It is totally consistent with the type of measures that are needed. I do not think there will be any difficulty with the concept.”

A spokesman for Green Party leader and Minister for the Environment John Gormley said the matter of speed reductions was primarily for the Department of Transport. He said the Department of the Environment was not aware of a proposal at this stage. Mr Gormley believed that short-term and long-term initiatives were needed to reduce transport emissions, the spokesman said.

A Government spokesman said he was not aware of a specific proposal but added that any Minister has the right to bring a proposal to the Cabinet.

Frank Fahey, the Fianna Fáil TD who chairs the Oireachtas transport committee, argued the current speed limits were appropriate. If a lowering in speed limits led to a “significant” reduction in emissions, he said, it would then be “worthwhile for the committee to consider the matter”.

© 2008 The Irish Times

After changing road signs from miles to Kilometers costing millions commuters with zero public transport options now have to face the prospect of slower commute times.

[Actin The Sham]

Kneejerk reaction.

[DBTD]

Unlike that comment.

[Arcadia]

Unlike that comment.

I reckon an awful lot of people will be driving very quickly (legal present speed limits) to the polling stations in a few years.

Just when the road network is finished decreasing travel times on efficient safer roads and cities like Cork without efficient,cheap public transpoort or a transport authority or company of its own.

Interesting times ahead.

[Hang_Sandwich]

ffs - reducing them their solution to problem is the reduce speed in order to get everyone to get teh bus - slower traffic will be great for the environment - retards

[Actin The Sham]

Unlike that comment.

Heh heh heh..


Reduce the speed limits in cities and towns from 50 kph to 30 kph, but leave motorways alone.

[BangorFeen]

Of course, this measure was introduced in Spain. Spain that has decent, affordable and extensive public transport. Ireland? We've got the Luas. In Dublin. The Greens haven't a clue once they step over the Dublin county bounds. Dan Boyle's going to be a senator for another while yet

[Arcadia]

Of course, this measure was introduced in Spain. Spain that has decent, affordable and extensive public transport. Ireland? We've got the Luas. In Dublin. The Greens haven't a clue once they step over the Dublin county bounds. Dan Boyle's going to be a senator for another while yet

Even with the Dart,Suburban-Rail AND the Luas Dublins is still a mess for commuters as a low-rise low density city.

In Cork we have a City where crackpot councillors consider anything over 3-stories high-rise - Cork just repeats Dublins planning / Transport failures.

The Greens have great ideas and theories but not practical in reality.

[Actin The Sham]

Of course, this measure was introduced in Spain. Spain that has decent, affordable and extensive public transport. Ireland? We've got the Luas. In Dublin. The Greens haven't a clue once they step over the Dublin county bounds. Dan Boyle's going to be a senator for another while yet

Dan Boyle is wheeled out as a kind of "media defender" of policy. Kind of like the way the PDs used to operate after they went into government with FF. Fiona O' Malley was regularly wheeled out as the "loose canon" to deride government policy," even though she was intstrumental in framing that same policy. The Greens are driving around in Toyota Prius cars which from construction to scrapping are the most damaging cars to the environment available. The heavy metals in their batteries are mined in Canada, then they are shipped to India, where acid is used to extract the metals from the ore then they are shipped to China to be made into batteries, then they are shipped to Japan to be put into Priuses, which are finally shipped to Ireland leaving a trail of open cast mines, acid dumps, and carbon emissions behind them just so that our "green" ministers can get cheap publicity. Any chance people could look at the real environmental costs of their actions before adopting a (I'll say it again,) a knee jerk reaction and buying a prius? The Prius was launched primarily for the US market where the vehicles of choice are petrol guzzling inefficient trucks and suvs. Here in Europe where we have highly efficient diesel powered cars they are an anachronism, and the open cast mines needed for the nickel and cadmium used in their batteries are an environmental disaster.


But, hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of an attractive press release, the greens after all have a monopoly on caring for the environment haven't they?


Any chance somebody could hand out two free CFL bulbs to every household in Ireland as well, like what Spain is doing in addition to reducing the speed limits?

Or do we just get all stick and no carrot from Mr. Boyle.

[Actin The Sham]

Even with the Dart,Suburban-Rail AND the Luas Dublins is still a mess for commuters as a low-rise low density city.

In Cork we have a City where crackpot councillors consider anything over 3-stories high-rise - Cork just repeats Dublins planning / Transport failures.

The Greens have great ideas and theories but not practical in reality.


In my view the Greens in Ireland are good at cutting and pasting bits of policies in place in other countries, except they leave out bits of those policies and forget that Ireland has a third world public transport infrastructure.

They are also completely Dublin centred and have no idea how to plan nationally, which is probably why the people of Cork rejected them at the last election.

Unfortunately our overcentralised system of Government means that we in Cork have to put up with unelected elitist bureaucrats formulating policies which will have an effect on our day to day lives, but we have no say in how they are appointed.
The Greens want a directly elected mayor for Dublin, and depending on how that works out they "may consider rolling it out to other cities."

Why not a directly elected mayor for Cork? Why should we have to wait and see how things work out in Dublin first?

[spudgun]

You go on and on about directly elected mayors, why do you think that would solve anything?

Who would monitor the mayor for corruption and bad decisions?

The electorate?

The cork electorate couldn't give a shit so long as they don't have to pay bin charges. Even less would get done because lobby groups from different districts of the city would form and harrass Cork local politicians.

The man elected for mayor would probably be a prominent business man with even closer links to local developers and businessmen?

Your suggestion for a Mayor just ads another piece of bureaucracy to Irish/local politics.

Our incompetence as a nation does not stem from ''centralization in Dublin'', it comes from the cultural fabric of Irish society. Maybe instead of blaming corks woes on Dublin when you should really be signaling out the characteristics inherent in the Irish society.

[DBTD]

Outside of some childish name calling I'm glad most people are reacting, with many making good suggestions. I've made the proposal knowing it would get negative reactions. Some of the modifications suggested are useful. The main point is we've got to do something to reduce carbon emissions from transport, and the fact remains that the emission levels are going in the wrong direction.
All the other points raised are valid - we need better public transport and Cork's does need and will have a directly elected Mayor. I also agree with the CFL idea, We wanted it to happen last year and I'm confident we can get something in this year's budget.

[Actin The Sham]

Outside of some childish name calling I'm glad most people are reacting, with many making good suggestions. I've made the proposal knowing it would get negative reactions. Some of the modifications suggested are useful. The main point is we've got to do something to reduce carbon emissions from transport, and the fact remains that the emission levels are going in the wrong direction.
All the other points raised are valid - we need better public transport and Cork's does need and will have a directly elected Mayor. I also agree with the CFL idea, We wanted it to happen last year and I'm confident we can get something in this year's budget.

Agriculture represents an even bigger problem. Methane, fertilisers, diesel powered agricultural exquipment, but we automatically jump on the whole "transport bad" issue.

Look, can we for once have some "joined up government?"

Can people not realise that thousands of cars stuck in traffic in places like Durrow, Abbeyleix, Macroom, Charleville, and Buttevant emit much more carbon than they would if they were driving on properly constructed bypasses at a steady pace?

Also, as all cars built today are far more efficient than cars built ten years ago, wouldn't a modernisation of the fleet be a better idea?

Wouldn't it also perhaps jumpstart some consumer spending?

How about introducing a scrappage scheme whereby if you scrap a 1998 car and replace it with a car emitting 10% less emissions, you would get a grant of say a percentage of the penalty that Ireland would have to pay under Kyoto for not meeting its targets?

That sounds more like a plan to me.

And if someone could point out to me where I indulged in "childish namecalling" in this thread than I would be happy to apologise.

Finally, on the directly elected mayor of Cork: I mean a Mayor who is responsible for local transport and local infrastructural projects.

In other words, a transfer of authority, not an additional layer of bureaucracy. And I also think that Cork has been reasonably well served by its locally elected councillors, who are not as corrupt as may have been insinuated. One of the most effective councillors as a matter of fact is DBTD himself, but I wish we could take a more holistic view, rather then get bogged down in what looks to me like fire brigade action.

[Actin The Sham]

If the Flyovers on the Bandon and Sarsfield Road roundabouts hadn't been cancelled by government in favour of "interurban" (roads to Dublin), routes there would be much less carbon emissions on the South Ring.

If the Midleton Railway had been opened when it was originally promised, there would be much less carbon emissions on the Dunkettle interchange.

If we were mature enough to look at building a Nuclear Power Station to replace Moneypoint, there would be much less carbon emissions on the west coast.


If we banned Patio Heaters and two stroke petrol powered garden tools there would be a lot less carbon emitted by unregulated or uncatalysed equipment.

If we issued a directive that made it obligatory to turn down the thermostats in all government buildings by 3 degrees centigrade there would be a lot less carbon emitted in central Dublin.

And if we used nuclear generated electricity to run suburban rail services there would be a lot less carbon emitted by transport in general.

But what do we come up with?

A plan to reduce the speed limits on our "motorways" and "main roads."

Stuff like this makes me seriously consider emigrating.

[exactiv]

Outside of some childish name calling I'm glad most people are reacting, with many making good suggestions. I've made the proposal knowing it would get negative reactions. Some of the modifications suggested are useful. The main point is we've got to do something to reduce carbon emissions from transport, and the fact remains that the emission levels are going in the wrong direction.
All the other points raised are valid - we need better public transport and Cork's does need and will have a directly elected Mayor. I also agree with the CFL idea, We wanted it to happen last year and I'm confident we can get something in this year's budget.

In fairness Dan, the Green Party seriously needs to wake up and realise that this sort of speed limits rubbish is a total waste of time. it might make sense on paper, but it's a pile of crap and you know it. CFL lightbulbs are a much better idea as this will actually cut the amount of power people (environmental plus) use and save us some much needed money.

And anyway, who is going to enforce it? The Gardai are only interested in sitting under flyovers on the Ballincollig bypass. I've never, ever, seen a speed check in the city.

Get the public transport system sorted and stop messing about with crap like this.

[Unknown Legend]

I don't know about the rest of ye but I find the less time I spend in my car
the less petrol I use........

[Red Star Hardkore]

I live in a rural area but work in a suburb on the other side of the city. My family also lives in the city and I visit them a lot. To do just general stuff like taking my girl shopping, etc, I have to go to the city. I have to do a lot of driving, could you imagine my parents face if I told them that they won't see their grandson this evening because my car puts out too many emissions? Jesus will this green party ever cop on. People have to drive. And I for one like many others have to do a lot of it. It's not a choice, it's a necessity. The fact is I would spend 2 hours a day minimum driving. If ye reduce the speedlimit by one fifth, that means I'll spend an extra 24 minutes a day driving. I wouldn't be the only person either. Have you ever driven the south ring road and seen how damn busy it is? I'd bet building the flyovers would do hell of a lot more to reduce the CO2 emitted on that road than cutting the speed limits. Hmm, cut speed limits to increase congestion meaning that cars are on the road longer and polluting more, or build the flyovers to clear congestion meaning that us nasty polluters are off the road quicker? Doesn't take an idiot to figure it out.

[KD Langer]

by christ i fucking HATE the green party.

[Arcadia]

by christ i fucking HATE the green party.

Get them out before they destroy us with their BULLSHIT theories.

[exactiv]

Get them out before they destroy us with their BULLSHIT theories.
Ah now. The Green Party may have some crackpot ideas every now and then, but they're at least trying to change things. FF are just plain useless. They change nothing.
The problem with the Greens is that while they have some sound policy ideas, they also have a tendency to promote policies that make no sense to the general populous but appeal to the Super Greens, e.g. the hippy crusty ( :silly: )types that also make up a large part of the Green Party.

[Barry Scott]

Reducing speed limits by 20 kph would only infuriate an unconvinced population. Completely ridiculous idea IMO

[Actin The Sham]

Reducing speed limits by 20 kph would only infuriate an unconvinced population. Completely ridiculous idea IMO

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n307/webmaster99/barry-scott.jpg

[KD Langer]

Reducing speed limits by 20 kph would only infuriate an unconvinced population. Completely ridiculous idea IMO

next step. 9 million bycycles on the streets. you mark my words.

[Red Star Hardkore]

As Actin The Sham has mentioned about the Prius, it isn't the most environmentally friendly car. AFAIK it's the 8th lowest in emissions. The 'greenest' car on the market is the 1.4 Diesel VW Polo.

So I will have no faith in anything the Green Party blab about emissions until I see all the Green Party members of government either:
a) car pool to work with 1.4D VW Polo's
b) cycle everywhere
c) use public transport.

I ask DBTD just how many of the green TD's or Senators use Dublin Bus or the Luas to get to work?

[Actin The Sham]

As Actin The Sham has mentioned about the Prius, it isn't the most environmentally friendly car. AFAIK it's the 8th lowest in emissions. The 'greenest' car on the market is the 1.4 Diesel VW Polo.

So I will have no faith in anything the Green Party blab about emissions until I see all the Green Party members of government either:
a) car pool to work with 1.4D VW Polo's
b) cycle everywhere
c) use public transport.

I ask DBTD just how many of the green TD's or Senators use Dublin Bus or the Luas to get to work?


I would imagine that his response will as usual begin with a dig at you for even raising the issue, and then confirmation that yes indeed, they do use buses and the luas to get to work.

However.

As a primarily Dublin based party, that is an option that we in Cork do not have.

[captainshamrock]

So if the reasoning behind this is that a mid rev steady speed is best for fuel conservation then are they going to set a minimum speed limit on the national roads and force the old codgers and everyone else slowing down traffic off the road. How about tractors banned during peak hours in the morning and evening. Why is speed always the bad guy? We may be bad drivers but the shitty infrastructure kills a lot more people than speeding and folks with one beer drank. And adds to the green house/c02/emmissions bullshit.

[Actin The Sham]

So if the reasoning behind this is that a mid rev steady speed is best for fuel conservation then are they going to set a minimum speed limit on the national roads and force the old codgers and everyone else slowing down traffic off the road. How about tractors banned during peak hours in the morning and evening. Why is speed always the bad guy? We may be bad drivers but the shitty infrastructure kills a lot more people than speeding and folks with one beer drank. And adds to the green house/c02/emmissions bullshit.


And the Green Party minister for the environment presides over a situation where thousands of people living in Carrigaline have no option but to use a car to get anywhere, and then the NRA won't upgrade the road there because it is not "a national priority," and the planners won't allow the port of Cork to move to Ringaskiddy as the road is not up to standard.


So we have a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Dublin telling us that the road to Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy is not a priority, and then we have another bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Dublin telling us that we can't have more development in the lower harbour area until the road is brought up to standard.

Then we have an unelected politically appointed senator coming on this forum and talking down to us.


Wake up people: the unelected bureaucrats and political appointees in Dublin are screwing this great city and county into the ground.

[Rebelred]

The road past my house is being surfaced this week, to a decent standard too thankfully. They did two miles last year,stopping about a mile before my house on the Cork City side, doing a mile and a half this year. with a bit of luck, they may even reach my local village (another 3 miles from the end of this strip of shiny new tarmacadam) by the next election.

[Arcadia]

And the Green Party minister for the environment presides over a situation where thousands of people living in Carrigaline have no option but to use a car to get anywhere, and then the NRA won't upgrade the road there because it is not "a national priority," and the planners won't allow the port of Cork to move to Ringaskiddy as the road is not up to standard.


So we have a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Dublin telling us that the road to Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy is not a priority, and then we have another bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Dublin telling us that we can't have more development in the lower harbour area until the road is brought up to standard.

Then we have an unelected politically appointed senator coming on this forum and talking down to us.


Wake up people: the unelected bureaucrats and political appointees in Dublin are screwing this great city and county into the ground.

And it been like that for a long time now.

[Actin The Sham]

And the Green Party minister for the environment presides over a situation where thousands of people living in Carrigaline have no option but to use a car to get anywhere, and then the NRA won't upgrade the road there because it is not "a national priority," and the planners won't allow the port of Cork to move to Ringaskiddy as the road is not up to standard.


So we have a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Dublin telling us that the road to Carrigaline and Ringaskiddy is not a priority, and then we have another bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Dublin telling us that we can't have more development in the lower harbour area until the road is brought up to standard.

Then we have an unelected politically appointed senator coming on this forum and talking down to us.


Wake up people: the unelected bureaucrats and political appointees in Dublin are screwing this great city and county into the ground.

And it been like that for a long time now.

We had a guy from Douglas writing to the Irish Examiner this morning and The Sunday Independent yesterday bitching about the Lisbon treaty, and how the government wasn't listening to the people.

Well, to be quite honest, at this stage now, I couldn't give a flying fuck about lisbon, or anything else: because right now, we are being run by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats, a political elite, and Rupert Murdoch's chattering classes, based not in Brussels, no, they're much closer than that and they have much more control over us, no, they're based in Dublin, and we are kneeling down, bending over, and asking them to screw us even more.

[Red Star Hardkore]

Time for a Revolution?