Wahturfurd Vs. Kilkenny: Official All Ireland Hurling Final Thread

[Langer Dan]

Has to be the Cats for me, by a handy enough margin too.

Wahturfurd don't impress me in the slightest, similar situation to last year's final

[Rebelred]

Kilkenny don't do sentiment.All the talk in the papers is going to surround Waterford, all the hype, all the pressure, is all going to be on them.

Kilkenny will train away as quietly as they can and they have the ideal preparation for their 3 in a row.

[Liathroidi Mor]

Kilkenny to beat them by 10pts

[Murdock]

Has to be the Cats for me, by a handy enough margin too.

Wahturfurd don't impress me in the slightest, similar situation to last year's final



Yeah, you called that one beautifully alright, Fitzy. :lol!:


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[wayne gayle]

You wouldn't know, it's all on the day like.
If you're a man for omens (and I am), then it's a bit like Offaly in '98. They got rid of their manager after a player revolt early in the year, came in through the back door and reached the AI final and won it as massive underdogs against funnily enough, Kilkenny.
I've no great gra for the badge-kissers but only they can stop our record being obliterated.

[northmallexile]

You wouldn't know, it's all on the day like.
If you're a man for omens (and I am), then it's a bit like Offaly in '98. They got rid of their manager after a player revolt early in the year, came in through the back door and reached the AI final and won it as massive underdogs against funnily enough, Kilkenny.
I've no great gra for the badge-kissers but only they can stop our record being obliterated.

That was a raw Kilkenny side at the time though.

Actually, you could probably draw parallels between the Kilkenny side of 1998 and the Tipp side of 2008. Obviously the coming team, but it might take them a few more years to get there.

[wayne gayle]

That was a raw Kilkenny side at the time though.

Actually, you could probably draw parallels between the Kilkenny side of 1998 and the Tipp side of 2008. Obviously the coming team, but it might take them a few more years to get there.

Oh Jesus no please. A KK 3 in a row followed by a Tipp era of dominance.

[Rebelred]

So,
Clare beat Waterford,
Tipp beat Cork,
Clare beat Limerick,
Tipp beat Clare,
Kilkenny beat Offaly,
Wexford beat Dublin,
Kilkenny beat Wexford,
Offaly beat Limerick,
Cork beat Dublin,
Waterford beat Offaly,
Cork beat Galway,
Cork beat Clare,
Waterford beat Wexford,
Kilkenny beat Cork
and Waterford beat Tipp


two left, only one unbeaten.

[Fr. Turncoat]

Has to be the Cats for me, by a handy enough margin too.

Wahturfurd don't impress me in the slightest, similar situation to last year's final

You sure make me laugh. Did you even see the game today? There were some great displays from Waterford, great scores and great heart. A team that has lost five semis and eventually qualifies for the final, has one thing in abundance - belief.
They got there, fair play to them.
Get over your small-time fan rivalries will ya?

[diar2me]

You sure make me laugh. Did you even see the game today? There were some great displays from Waterford, great scores and great heart. A team that has lost five semis and eventually qualifies for the final, has one thing in abundance - belief.
They got there, fair play to them.
Get over your small-time fan rivalries will ya?

Here here. Fair play to Waterford. I wish them the best of luck. God knows I'd love to see the likes of McGrath and the older crew getting a medal. Can't see it happening but sher look stranger things have happened.

[delzer]

they will get buried by kilkenny if they give up the goal chances like they did today. that disallowed goal was a bit unlucky a lot of the times they are given.

think kilkenny will have to much for them. waterford dont have the players they have maybe 8 players who would be good enough to get on the kilkenny team.

hope im wrong would love to see waherfurd win an all ireland before the current team get too old

[ho chi feen]

Yeah, you called that one beautifully alright, Fitzy. :lol!:


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Heh heh heh heh heh heh

[Langer Dan]

Yeah, you called that one beautifully alright, Fitzy. :lol!:


http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showthread.php?t=113 142

christ , how much of yer day did youwaste looking for that?:p

gIMPTASTIC.

[Loftydog]

A kilkenny 3 in a row V A team containing John Mullane...

I'll pass on this

[Murdock]

christ , how much of yer day did youwaste looking for that?:p

gIMPTASTIC.

All of 5 seconds I'd say.




No need to get so rattled, Danny boy.

[legend76]

All of 5 seconds I'd say.




No need to get so rattled, Danny boy.

Top Exposure there Murdock

[los pasillos de hoy]

Here here. Fair play to Waterford. I wish them the best of luck. God knows I'd love to see the likes of McGrath and the older crew getting a medal. Can't see it happening but sher look stranger things have happened.

Hear hear!

[los pasillos de hoy]

The Blaas will beat them ... KK are overrated. If they had to come through Munster every year, we wouldn't be subjected to half the hype the (Dublin) meeja pile on

[POL]

Kilkenny by at least 6 points I reckon

[Edmund Blackwater]

Kilkenny by at least 6 points I reckon.

I reckon KK will do their usual 10 minute demolition job, either at the end of the first half or the start of the second and just cruise from there. It would be nice if we got a good, tight game. I can't see it though.

[Rebelred]

The Blaas will beat them ... KK are overrated. If they had to come through Munster every year, we wouldn't be subjected to half the hype the (Dublin) meeja pile on

Kilkenny are not overrated. They are simply the best team around at the moment.

[donieG]

Oh Jesus no please. A KK 3 in a row followed by a Tipp era of dominance.

Followed by KK at the top of the roll of honour! It's going to be a dark, dark winter :vamp:

[bigboyfoolish]

Extremely depressing thoughts all round but I don't think the future is as
bad for us as some might think..

All right it may be fair to say that we haven't been winning Minor and U 21 All Irelands but we've been getting to finals.

All ireland Final last year Minor. Munster Champs this year and
unlucky to be beaten by Galway in the semifinal last week..

Some good prospects there.
Munster U 21 Champs last year
so while we haven't had the kind of success that Galway, Tipp and kilkenny have been enjoying at under age level we're still producing hurlers competitive enough.

A little sheen here, a little polish there and you never know..

[Langer Dan]

Kilkenny by at least 6 points I reckon

Agreed, can't see de deise getting a sniff.

kilkenny 2-7 on, the bookmakers aint stupid. I'd nearly stick a few hundred on em, easy money.

[bigboyfoolish]

Agreed, can't see de deise getting a sniff.

kilkenny 2-7 on, the bookmakers aint stupid. I'd nearly stick a few hundred on em, easy money.

I think it's a dangerous bet.

Kilkenny have every possible advantage going for them.

Experience. Strength in depth. Unbeaten in nearly three years. History. Cody. Shefflin. Brennan. Walsh. Tyrell.

But All Ireland finals are funny things sometimes and sometimes
anything can happen.

It'll be all on the day.

[Rebelred]

so, not long to go now. Waterford have done a great job to date in quelling the hype, in sharp contrast to Limerick 12 months ago. As time goes by I've been getting the feeling they could well pull it off on Sunday, but they'll need a clean sheet to do it, and with that full back line???

[POL]

they haven't a prayer

[BlackAvon08]

If Waterford can hold on in there until the last 10 minutes, then who knows what might happen. However on form you would have to say Kilkenny by 6+points.

[Rebelred]

If Waterford can hold on in there until the last 10 minutes, then who knows what might happen. However on form you would have to say Kilkenny by 6+points.

they'll have to hold on for the first 10 minutes, remember last year. It was over once Brennan scored the goal.

[BlackAvon08]

they'll have to hold on for the first 10 minutes, remember last year. It was over once Brennan scored the goal.

Agreed that game was over after 10 minutes! KK could very easily do the same on Sunday.

Cork's footballers showed if you keep fighting things can happen for you. A 9 point deficit in football must be equivalent to 12 - 15 points in hurling!

[Rebelred]

Agreed that game was over after 10 minutes! KK could very easily do the same on Sunday.

Cork's footballers showed if you keep fighting things can happen for you. A 9 point deficit in football must be equivalent to 12 - 15 points in hurling!

easily. But when was the last time we saw Kilkenny overhauled? To beat them Waterford are going to have to be with them all the way, point for point, goal for goal. Much like they were in the league final last year.

[BlackAvon08]

easily. But when was the last time we saw Kilkenny overhauled? To beat them Waterford are going to have to be with them all the way, point for point, goal for goal. Much like they were in the league final last year.

Yep - I would agree with that.

[redrebel]

If Waterford dont get blown away by half time...they may have a chance.

Its not like some of their players dont buy into their own hype...

Waterford, are a much better team than Limerick were last year, and have a league final win under their belt against the cats, although, I think was in thurles, and like Kerry, the Cats love playing in Croke park..

I f Dan Shanahan finally wakes up this season and get's an early goal or 7, and Mullane & co...run at the Killkenny corner backs, they may have a chance. i just wonder if Ken McGrath and Tony Browne can contain Sheffliin & Brennan for 70 minutes.

[POL]

I f Dan Shanahan finally wakes up this season and get's an early goal or 7, and Mullane & co...run at the Killkenny corner backs, they may have a chance. i just wonder if Ken McGrath and Tony Browne can contain Sheffliin & Brennan for 70 minutes.Do you feel it in your waters do ya?

[stevetharlear]

Kilkenny are massive favourites for a reason but I can't see how they're 2/7 with the bookies. I doubt (and hope) that they'll blow this Waterford side away. If I were gonna pick any side in Ireland to score a few goals in Croker against the Cats it'd be the Blaas. If they do score 3-4 goals then it'd be a massive job for any team, as good and all as KK are, to peg them back.
Remember the amount of goals they scored in the two 1/4's last year?

Also, not many people gave them a chance against Tipp, and many were saying that Tipp would put it up to the Cats,that they had the intensity to match KK, well Waterford out 'intensified' Tipp from the start. IMO Waterford deserved their win the last day, they were by far the better team.

All in all I'd go for a KK victory if pushed but wouldn't be a bit surprised if they blew the 3 in a row.

PS: To whoever was going on about Cork's record being "obliterated" on Sunday, calm down will ya. Them moving 1,2 or 3 ahead of us is no big deal, keep an eye on the bigger picture, remember, we are the Rebels, we will be back!!!8)

[Langer Dan]

Kilkenny are massive favourites for a reason but I can't see how they're 2/7 with the bookies. I doubt (and hope) that they'll blow this Waterford side away. If I were gonna pick any side in Ireland to score a few goals in Croker against the Cats it'd be the Blaas. If they do score 3-4 goals then it'd be a massive job for any team, as good and all as KK are, to peg them back.
Remember the amount of goals they scored in the two 1/4's last year?

Also, not many people gave them a chance against Tipp, and many were saying that Tipp would put it up to the Cats,that they had the intensity to match KK, well Waterford out 'intensified' Tipp from the start. IMO Waterford deserved their win the last day, they were by far the better team.

All in all I'd go for a KK victory if pushed but wouldn't be a bit surprised if they blew the 3 in a row.

PS: To whoever was going on about Cork's record being "obliterated" on Sunday, calm down will ya. Them moving 1,2 or 3 ahead of us is no big deal, keep an eye on the bigger picture, remember, we are the Rebels, we will be back!!!8)

Waterford have no hope.

Kilkenny are miles ahead of them.

[bigboyfoolish]

I wouldn't give them much of a chance either.
How many times have this Kilkenny team had bad days over the last couple of years.

I'd say you would have to go back to the All ireland final of 2004.
Galway did beat them in '05 but when you post 4-18 and it's still not good enough then you know something special happened.
Kilkenny conceded 5 goals that day.
I dare say that will NEVER happen again under Cody.

They simply don't do 'Off-Days'..

It's kinda depressing.

[bigboyfoolish]

I still think that Waterford probably have a better chance
than Limerick had last year.

Limerick seemed to enjoy the day a little too much for my liking and forgot
that they were there to play a match.

Waterford won't have that problem.
They have plenty of big game experience.
Some of em have played in 5 semi finals.
In front of big crowds in Croker.
They will also have a huge support.
But a fat lot of good that did us the last day.

I'm nearly convinced the Cats use that as another motivational tool.

The one thing they do have that no one else in Ireland has right now is a
sextet of forwards to match Kilkenny.
Kilkenny know there's a weakness in the Wat full back line.
They will be in like flynn to exploit that one.
If it holds tough and only a couple of points in it with ten mins to go
then who knows..?

Unfortunately I think it will be over by half time..

[Mr Jefferson]

I still think that Waterford probably have a better chance
than Limerick had last year.

Limerick seemed to enjoy the day a little too much for my liking and forgot
that they were there to play a match.

Waterford won't have that problem.
They have plenty of big game experience.
Some of em have played in 5 semi finals.
In front of big crowds in Croker.
They will also have a huge support.
But a fat lot of good that did us the last day.

I'm nearly convinced the Cats use that as another motivational tool.

The one thing they do have that no one else in Ireland has right now is a
sextet of forwards to match Kilkenny.
Kilkenny know there's a weakness in the Wat full back line.
They will be in like flynn to exploit that one.
If it holds tough and only a couple of points in it with ten mins to go
then who knows..?

Unfortunately I think it will be over by half time..

Limerick flattered to deceive last year. Waterford were the ones that turned up in the semi thinking it was in the bag. Limerick then got shown up in the final. Waterford have a chance to beat them. They're a hard team and will go toe to toe, but KK are a smart team. If waterford can avoid red cards, who knows?

[cattybarry]

dont compare any team to limerick. they are and were hopeless. this years final is a whole other ball game.

[Langer Dan]

dont compare any team to limerick. they are and were hopeless. this years final is a whole other ball game.

Rubbish, if thats the case then explain how they made shit of mighty Wahturfurd in the semi last year?
And don't trot out the tiredness line, thats a total cop out.

Waterford are simply the biggest bottlers in hurling and I fully expect them to implode yet again come sunday.

Kilkenny by 9-10 points.

[bigboyfoolish]

Kilkenny by 9-10 points.



I agree entirely..

I don't see Wahturfurd being anywhere close..

This KK team are awesome..
Utterly awesome..

The game will be over by half time..

[Johnnyc]

Waterford certainly have the ability to get goals but they have a tendency to leak them too.

I was more impressed with their full back line the last day than I was in recent times. If they could somehow limit the Cats to just one goal they have a great chance.

Waterford are fairly strong in most areas and you know the likes of Mullane, Ken, Browne and Eoin Kelly won't let them down.

It's some of the fellas that played out of their skin last year who need to step it up big time, the likes of Dan, Brick Walsh, Molumphy. Prendergast needs to work his socks off at half forward, he is a great player on his day and good for a score or two. He needs to upset their half back line too.

The whole Waterford team need to work their asses off when they don't have the ball. They can't get too despondent if they go a few points behind, they need to keep plugging away.

There is plenty of pressure on the Cats with the prospect of three in a row. Normally they arrive on final day fairly relaxed but surely the prospect of three in a row will bring a little extra nerves. On paper it is Kilkenny's to lose but I think Waterford will really put it up to them and give it everything. Davey will have them ready.

I think they'll just do it.

[Rebelred]

Kilkenny to score first, lead at half time and win the match is 11-8 with Paddypower.

[Rebelred]

Kilkenny naming their team tonight, Waterford named the same team as started the Semi final last night. I think they should be starting Jack Kennedy.

[Langer Dan]

Kilkenny naming their team tonight, Waterford named the same team as started the Semi final last night. I think they should be starting Jack Kennedy.

I can't see Wahturfurd getting a result in this match, they need to score three,four goals to have any chance and I just don't see that happening with this Kilkenny defence.

Don't rate their chances at all......

[Lee Bushwacker]

I can't see Wahturfurd getting a result in this match, they need to score three,four goals to have any chance and I just don't see that happening with this Kilkenny defence.

Don't rate their chances at all......

:D
Agreed.
Kilkenny by 8pts at least!:D

[bigboyfoolish]

They're actually going for a clean sweep.
They have the minor final Sunday.
U-21 going the week after V Tipp
They could struggle in that one. Tipp are very good despite the robbery in the Munster final.
They have already won the Intermediate


It's depressing...
Really is..

[Rebelred]

They're actually going for a clean sweep.
They have the minor final Sunday.
U-21 going the week after V Tipp
They could struggle in that one. Tipp are very good despite the robbery in the Munster final.
They have already won the Intermediate


It's depressing...
Really is..
they're getting out of it what they've put into it!... So are we.

[Rebelred]

KILKENNY (SHC v Waterford) - PJ Ryan; M Kavanagh, N Hickey, J Tyrrell; T Walsh, B Hogan, JJ Delaney; J Fitzpatrick (capt), D Lyng; M Comerford, R Power, E Larkin; E Brennan, H Shefflin, A Fogarty.

[kevinbitzz]

Rubbish, if thats the case then explain how they made shit of mighty Wahturfurd in the semi last year?
And don't trot out the tiredness line, thats a total cop out.

Waterford are simply the biggest bottlers in hurling and I fully expect them to implode yet again come sunday.

Kilkenny by 9-10 points.

Even though i'm hoping for a good close match, i can see KK running away with it,

KK are 11/5 - 8 points on PP

[corkuberalles]

they're getting out of it what they've put into it!... So are we.

Spot on in fairness.

[Rebelred]

Evanne Ní Chuilinn is wearing a fantastically short skirt on Up for the Final!

She'd get it!

[redrebel]

Evanne Ni Chuilleann... yeah didnt look bad .. still would prefer Joanne Cantwell.
Reckon Killkenny will need an off day for Waterford to be in this.

Reckon KK backs will try to knock Mullane off his game early on, the way we used to..He's a big time player who will get the crowd going if he hits some early points.

You wouldnt begrudge KK their win, but it would be nice to see Waterford get one Celtic cross .
Cant believe martin Kavanagh playing in his 9th final.:crazyeye:

[Professor Piehead]

Just put 20 on Waterford.

Just to make the game a little bit more exciting.

Not as it needs it, I can't wait.

[Rebelred]

Just put 20 on Waterford.

Just to make the game a little bit more exciting.

Not as it needs it, I can't wait.

the closer it comes to throw in the more I get a feeling Waterford will make a very good game of this. I don't see them winning though.

[Rebelred]

Galway Minors are putting in some display in this second half, holding Kilkenny scoreless given away two bad goals in the first half. Very good game. Galway leading by 2 with 8 minutes left.

[Rebelred]

goals win games and Kilkenny strike for the winning goal with 2 minutes left.

[Mr Jefferson]

Jesus. Looks like nicky brennan gets his clothes from charity shops!

[M&M]

Oh it's bad... already.

Edit: Alight, it's worse than bad.

2-10 to 0-04 after 20 minutes.
Jaysus.

[Professor Piehead]

Looks like I can say goodbye to my tenner :-(

[Mr.Mister]

Oh it's bad... already.

Edit: Alight, it's worse than bad.

2-10 to 0-04 after 20 minutes.
Jaysus.

:(

Fuck Sake!

[redrebel]

Oh sweet jesus.... bet waterford dont know what hit them....

[LawrenceSummers]

game over, waterford have no game plan, their half forwards wouldnt win ball at the paralympic basketball, they are starting to show their true colour now and getting dirty,

none of theri players have shown up, waterford never the team for a big day

[Mr.Mister]

Rose and Barry have Waterford cursed!

[LawrenceSummers]

i feel for eoin kelly, and clinton hennessy, they are the only players doing any bit, shanahan isnt even on the field, they are so far behind, yellow for mcgrath now, waterford they are gonna get filthy

[Mr.Mister]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the Waterford dressing room at half time,Davey Fitz will go crazy,i bet he'll threaten to kill their families.

He's fucking nuts anyway.

[redrebel]

best thing for the Waterford players to do is get on the team bus, and not come out for the 2nd half.... this is cruel to watch.

[Jay-birdd]

Ya best thing to do would be hop on the bus home.
Save being embaressed even more like..
This could end up being the biggest hammering n an all ireland final haha :L::roll::D:p

[Aphex]

Amir Khan didn't take this much of a battering...

[west cork rebel]

Cruel to watch? it's awful on my ears, at home on crutches means I'm relying on rte radio 1, and it sounds awful. I'm starting to doubt Waterford have even turned up.

Here is to hoping for a better second half, I really do hope Waterford come out fighting as we did the other week against the Kingdom.

[KolaKubes]

I like Mulcahy's comments about ground hurling.

KK block up the game by stopping the player winning primary possession and making sure they've enough guys around the breaking ball.

I'm hoping there's noone so naive at this stage to think that KK can be so dominant aerially even against a team with Wa'erfor's noted ability in that respect.

KK are sytematically fouling the man as they go for the ball.

The GAA refs need to wake up to it.

After that, when the ball drops, Wa'erfor' are fumbling around trying to pick up the ball, same as Cork struggled with it against KK, particularly in the half back line, and when you lose possession there, it's killer. Pun intended.

Let good ball go off the ground when you've two or three around ya. I've rarely seen someone hook a ground stroke.

Mind, on top of the work rate and the fouling, KK are phenomenal in taking their score and with Shefflin adding a bit of class.

[Mr.Mister]

They really need to give it all now. Once they pick their heads up they could pull it off,but i doubt it to be honest.

[Mr.Mister]

This website might come in handy for Waterford:

http://www.tinkie.20m.com/

heh heh heh

[west cork rebel]

1st score from play in the 11th minute of the second half, they are simply being played off the park.

[Jay-birdd]

3-20 to 0-07 embaressing for waterford haha

[redrebel]

think some people are leaving ..."they think its all over"....it is now... well it was at 3.35pm

[Alan Smith]

How about 5 in a row?

[mushypea]

nothing short of masterful

[Mr Jefferson]

KK are sytematically fouling the man as they go for the ball.

The GAA refs need to wake up to it.

You can award what you don't see. KKhave made a fine art of it. But its not like everyone doesn't know about it, they just don't know how to counter it.

[Mr.Mister]

James McGarry on!

:)

I'm glad he came on,deserves it.

[west cork rebel]

James McGarry is brought on to a rousing cheer.

[KolaKubes]

You can award what you don't see. KKhave made a fine art of it. But its not like everyone doesn't know about it, they just don't know how to counter it.

Course they can see it.

Even if they can't, when a KK fella is behind you, swings and comes nowhere near the ball and you drop the ball? What could possibly have happened?

Give the benefit of the doubt to the player in possession.

And if they don't want to stop it, I'm sold on the idea of meeting fire with fire.

[Jay-birdd]

James Mcgarry ya fool haha

[Alan Smith]

Comeback is on

[Jay-birdd]

A we have to feel for waterford its kinda sad

[Mr Jefferson]

Course they can see it.

Even if they can't, when a KK fella is behind you, swings and comes nowhere near the ball and you drop the ball? What could possibly have happened?

Give the benefit of the doubt to the player in possession.

And if they don't want to stop it, I'm sold on the idea of meeting fire with fire.

No way. It might be all well and good to win dirty, but over time it'll jst turn people off. The best matches I've been at have been the waathurfurd cork tussles of the past number of years.

Look how crap bog ball is once the ulster teams got their harrying tactics going. sure tyrone and armagh got their all-ireland out of it, but did anyone outside those counties enjoy watching it. No.

[Mr Jefferson]

A we have to feel for waterford its kinda sad

No we don't. Limerick last year, KK the year before that. They're losers, and by the looks of it will be for quite some time.

[KolaKubes]

No way. It might be all well and good to win dirty, but over time it'll jst turn people off. The best matches I've been at have been the waathurfurd cork tussles of the past number of years.

Look how crap bog ball is once the ulster teams got their harrying tactics going. sure tyrone and armagh got their all-ireland out of it, but did anyone outside those counties enjoy watching it. No.

Well, we have harrying tactics and crowding play systematically being hailed as the best hurling team ever this afternoon my friend.

Duignan is wanking away furiously over them here.

I think Offaly will certainly be taking that approach next year.

How bad.

[Mr Jefferson]

Well, we have harrying tactics and crowding play systematically being hailed as the best hurling team ever this afternoon my friend.

Duignan is wanking away furiously over them here.

I think Offaly will certainly be taking that approach next year.

How bad.

Well the unfortunate thing is they actually have the ability to win it clean. No doubting the talent of the likes of Shefflin, Brennan and that little shit Walsh. Anticipation, agility, finishing, ball winning are all atributes of this team. If they could dispense with the underhanded tactics, they would undoubtedly be the best.

[KolaKubes]

Well the unfortunate thing is they actually have the ability to win it clean. No doubting the talent of the likes of Shefflin, Brennan and that little shit Walsh. Anticipation, agility, finishing, ball winning are all atributes of this team. If they could dispense with the underhanded tactics, they would undoubtedly be the best.

Ehm, no.

It's very important to how they approach the game.

They are playing a game of hurling that we will all have to get used to over the next 10 years.

[Lamps]

Ehm, no.

It's very important to how they approach the game.

They are playing a game of hurling that we will all have to get used to over the next 10 years.

They developed this game to counteract Corks running game, there is no doubt it has made hurling as a spectacle terrible to watch, introduced a yank to the game today, lets just say he was a little underwhelemed given what he had been hearing about the game.

Short term, its up to us now to counteract this. In football, the best way to beat it, is the big full forward line and just avoid all the traffic between the 45's. Not sure it'll work in hurling but something needs to be tried. I'd love to hear Donal O Grady's take on it. One other thing, no matter what we do, we need to match their intensity, no more funking out of challenges, like a few of our lads were in the semi.

Long term, we need to invest in hurling like Kilkenny do, lets not forget this is a county smaller than the northside of the city, and they are head and shoulders above us.

They are now number one, and i hope everyone is hurting tonight

[Coogee]

They developed this game to counteract Corks running game, there is no doubt it has made hurling as a spectacle terrible to watch, introduced a yank to the game today, lets just say he was a little underwhelemed given what he had been hearing about the game.

Short term, its up to us now to counteract this. In football, the best way to beat it, is the big full forward line and just avoid all the traffic between the 45's. Not sure it'll work in hurling but something needs to be tried. I'd love to hear Donal O Grady's take on it. One other thing, no matter what we do, we need to match their intensity, no more funking out of challenges, like a few of our lads were in the semi.

Long term, we need to invest in hurling like Kilkenny do, lets not forget this is a county smaller than the northside of the city, and they are head and shoulders above us.

They are now number one, and i hope everyone is hurting tonight

That is a bit of an over reaction....Kilkenny have produced some of the finest hurling ever seen in the last few years...They have not been involved in many classic games, like the Cork Waterford clashes, because they beat every team by 6-20 points....hardly their fault....

All this talk about them being a dirty team is rubbish aswell...they hit hard, it is a physical game after all...waterford had a few guys booked today for dirty strokes not Kilkenny...

This is without doubt the best ever Kilkenny team and one of the greatest teams ever and i wouldlt bet against 5 in a row

[Lamps]

That is a bit of an over reaction....Kilkenny have produced some of the finest hurling ever seen in the last few years...They have not been involved in many classic games, like the Cork Waterford clashes, because they beat every team by 6-20 points....hardly their fault....

All this talk about them being a dirty team is rubbish aswell...they hit hard, it is a physical game after all...waterford had a few guys booked today for dirty strokes not Kilkenny...

This is without doubt the best ever Kilkenny team and one of the greatest teams ever and i wouldlt bet against 5 in a row

I would never deny they aren't a great team, but over the last 3 years one team has put it up to them, and that's us and when that has happened the game became unbelievably scrappy, it gets bunched and the ref just ends up throwing the ball in over and over and over. This was happening today for the first 10 minutes until Waterford threw in the towel. It happened in the semi while the game was competitive. They are a machine and they have great players but what sets them apart is the work ethic and intensity of their players, the likes of Eddie Brennan and Larkin arent even big men, but they hit far harder than the likes of Dan the Man and Prendergast.

I'd confidently say this Kilkenny team is the greatest of all time.

[Fr. Turncoat]

That is a bit of an over reaction....Kilkenny have produced some of the finest hurling ever seen in the last few years...They have not been involved in many classic games, like the Cork Waterford clashes, because they beat every team by 6-20 points....hardly their fault....

All this talk about them being a dirty team is rubbish aswell...they hit hard, it is a physical game after all...waterford had a few guys booked today for dirty strokes not Kilkenny...

This is without doubt the best ever Kilkenny team and one of the greatest teams ever and i wouldlt bet against 5 in a row

well said, this was one of the best ever all-ireland performances. From 2 - 15 (keeper had nothing to do) plus the subs they all played to their best. This does not often happen, not to mention in AI finals.
They are phenomenal. People can look to their intensity and how close to the letter of the law they play, but at the end of the day they have the skill, strength and hunger needed to be top of the pile.
I applaud them and Brian Cody. They have set the bar very high. They will get a minimum of 9 all-stars. They are on for the hurling grand slam this season, and look odds on for four in a row.
Here's to knocking them off their perch sooner rather than later.

[KolaKubes]

They developed this game to counteract Corks running game, there is no doubt it has made hurling as a spectacle terrible to watch, introduced a yank to the game today, lets just say he was a little underwhelemed given what he had been hearing about the game.

Short term, its up to us now to counteract this. In football, the best way to beat it, is the big full forward line and just avoid all the traffic between the 45's. Not sure it'll work in hurling but something needs to be tried. I'd love to hear Donal O Grady's take on it. One other thing, no matter what we do, we need to match their intensity, no more funking out of challenges, like a few of our lads were in the semi.

Long term, we need to invest in hurling like Kilkenny do, lets not forget this is a county smaller than the northside of the city, and they are head and shoulders above us.

They are now number one, and i hope everyone is hurting tonight

The way the Waterford backs were running backwards with the ball says a lot about the challenges they were taking (and their own backbone I guess).

I have some sympathy because I think it's ridiculous what is going on in terms of acceptable "physical" play in hurling now - particularly on backs for whatever reason.

Like it or not, KK have adapted Ulster football tactics very well to hurling. They don't set out in a game to stop their man scoring or to stop the opposition scoring altogether. What they do is keep their shape defensively and accept that they will concede a share of scores from out beyond the 45 but few (if any) goals and that this will be enough to carry them over the finishing line. They then counter-attack with a viciousness rarely seen in hurling.

Not only is it a tactic that is working superbly well now against clueless outfits like Limerick and Waterford but it will continue to work well in tighter games.

It is not pretty and countering it will not be pretty - I think the latter is the only reason I can think of why we in Cork haven't accepted the new reality already.

In our own county, you have Erin's Own playing similar stuff (two back to back titles) and Bride Rovers playing a brand of hurling that has, in turn, bested them.

All the while, traditional strong clubs in the city are pissing about playing namby pamby hurling designed for showing off to the oul'doll.

I actually think Cork have the hurlers to beat this KK team in the short term but they'll have to hit the ground running next year. Noone guaranteed their place, a good manager, the numbers of "athletes" on the team fleshed out and a fearsome approach to training and the league games.

Uniquely amongst rival counties, Cork actually do have the strength in numbers to take the couple of injuries that are likely if the training is toughened up.

Rather than slagging hurlers like Timmy Mc, we should realise that this sort of guy is what's needed in a modern half forward line. Sure, ideally you'd have the skill of a Shefflin to boot but it's clear that these guys need to defend from the front now, it's a primary function of the half forward line.

Finally, and apologies for the long post, the game KK are playing of crowding out things under the dropping ball and making it hard for a guy to pick the ball cleanly and play it clean after is readily dealt with. We have good quality pitches nowadays, let the ball go on the ground down the flanks, it's the sensible thing to do. It's hard to be hooked, it takes the "hunting pack" out of the game and, hopefully, you might catch one of the cunts on the follow through.

[redrebel]

I think we all accept they have changed the way they play , hunting in packs etc. but if we are to figure a way around this, i think the likes of a Setanta O'Halpin would be an option, he was the difference when we beat them..but we need faster & more ball going to the forwards ..forget this shite hand passing on the half back line... I remember the like of Johnny Crowley playing for the great Cork team late 70's 80's...he took man & ball ..ground hurling ..alot to be said for it.

After thinking over this years games, Id still say we were as clsoe to Killkenny as anyone else...but they deserve their AI. Cody is a legendary manager.

[wayne gayle]

I think we all accept they have changed the way they play , hunting in packs etc. but if we are to figure a way around this, i think the likes of a Setanta O'Halpin would be an option, he was the difference when we beat them..but we need faster & more ball going to the forwards ..forget this shite hand passing on the half back line... I remember the like of Johnny Crowley playing for the great Cork team late 70's 80's...he took man & ball ..ground hurling ..alot to be said for it.

After thinking over this years games, Id still say we were as clsoe to Killkenny as anyone else...but they deserve their AI. Cody is a legendary manager.


Not at all biy. Th gap is massive and will get bigger unless the Cork County Board decide to learn something from this. Oh wait sorry, we're Cork, we know everything, we don't need to.

[3pointplay]

After the way they played today Waterford should pray that it is another 45 years before they make another final. It was like men against boys watching it

[Lee Bushwacker]

:neutral:
While it's true that Kilkenny use "niggly" tactics they cannot be compared
to certain "big ball" teams who are simply thuggish. In my opinion it's
Kilkenny's ability to take their scores from all angles that wins them games.
If Waterford had staged some sort of a comeback I've no doubt that the
Kats would have started rattling over points "rapid fire" syle.
"Look after the points and the goals will take care of themselves (if
necessary)" seems to be their motto and it works, end of story.
Since the 1980s how many times have the Kats scored 1-20+ to win
games.
Last year really came back to haunt Waterford today. In my opinion if they
had reached the final and been "beaten out the gate" it would have given
them experience of the big day and equally importantly of the build up, the
hype & ticket hassle that A.I. Final week always brings.
For all of us Rebels it will take some time to "sink in" that we are no longer,
as has been the case all our lives, number 1 in the roll of honour. For some
fans I suppose it'll be as if The Vatican suddenly converted to Islam!
Don't despair fellow Rebels & Rebelettes now we really have something to
aim for in 2009! :-D

[Lee Bushwacker]

Amir Khan didn't take this much of a battering...


:lol::lol::lol:
Nice one Aphex in all fairness.
In cinema terms Waterford had to cross "A Bridge Too Far" which turned
out to be "The Bridge Over The River Kwai"!
I suppose we could put these "condolences" on a Waaherfurd forum if we
had the address. :twisted:

[Lee Bushwacker]

Jesus. Looks like nicky brennan gets his clothes from charity shops!

;)
Not so sure about that Mr J.
Traditionally a lot of Kilkenny folk have done their shopping in
Waterford. :rolleyes:

[Lee Bushwacker]

[QUOTE=redrebel;22227 49]Evanne Ni Chuilleann... yeah didnt look bad .. still would prefer Joanne Cantwell.

:cool:
Agreed Redrebel!
Joanne Cantwell is the typical type of Dublin lass who's intelligent, good
company to be in and well worth a good "heaving" anyday of the week.
In fairness I wouldn't throw E.N.C. out of bed either! :D

[Eoin]

Jaysus no, don't see the attraction of Joanne Cantwell at all. Evanne all the way!

[northmallexile]

:neutral:
While it's true that Kilkenny use "niggly" tactics they cannot be compared
to certain "big ball" teams who are simply thuggish. In my opinion it's
Kilkenny's ability to take their scores from all angles that wins them games.
If Waterford had staged some sort of a comeback I've no doubt that the
Kats would have started rattling over points "rapid fire" syle.
"Look after the points and the goals will take care of themselves (if
necessary)" seems to be their motto and it works, end of story.
Since the 1980s how many times have the Kats scored 1-20+ to win
games.


Exactly. This is the first time any team has ever hit the 30-point mark in an All-Ireland Final. Kilkenny hit, what, 2 wides in the whole game today? Their level of accuracy was just phenomenal - I've never seen anything like it.

This year alone:
24 points against Offaly
21 points against Wexford
23 points against us
And now 30 points against Waterford.

[ANVIL]

Waterford should hang their heads in shame.
Their spineless,talent-free and shameful display made sure 2008 will be remembered as the year the All-Ireland stooped to a new low.
And the GAA should be asking itself how to avoid this embarrassment ever happening again.
I mean - throwing a fucking hurley at a fella to try to stop him scoring ...

[Murdock]

Jaysus no, don't see the attraction of Joanne Cantwell at all. Evanne all the way!

Gráinne pisses all over both of them.



As for the match, I stopped watching after about 20 minutes.

I can't see how anyone is going to stop Kilkenny making it 4/5/6/7.... in a row.

[Redmonster]

Waterford should hang their heads in shame.
Their spineless,talent-free and shameful display made sure 2008 will be remembered as the year the All-Ireland stooped to a new low.
And the GAA should be asking itself how to avoid this embarrassment ever happening again.
I mean - throwing a fucking hurley at a fella to try to stop him scoring ...

True. But I seem to remember one of our own crowd doing it to Kilkenny in an All Ireland final a few years ago.

[cunnigar]

At least they were at the final not like you muppetts,now go fuck off anvil and drown youself in the nearest river!!!!

[Fr. Turncoat]

Waterford should hang their heads in shame.
Their spineless,talent-free and shameful display made sure 2008 will be remembered as the year the All-Ireland stooped to a new low.
And the GAA should be asking itself how to avoid this embarrassment ever happening again.
I mean - throwing a fucking hurley at a fella to try to stop him scoring ...
Seem to remember Cork doing it against Waterford in the munster championship last year too. It is a last ditch thing.
They all do it

[Stuck in Dumpland]

I think we all accept they have changed the way they play , hunting in packs etc. but if we are to figure a way around this, i think the likes of a Setanta O'Halpin would be an option, he was the difference when we beat them..but we need faster & more ball going to the forwards ..forget this shite hand passing on the half back line... I remember the like of Johnny Crowley playing for the great Cork team late 70's 80's...he took man & ball ..ground hurling ..alot to be said for it.

After thinking over this years games, Id still say we were as clsoe to Killkenny as anyone else...but they deserve their AI. Cody is a legendary manager.

Didn't they beat us the year Setanta played?

Supreme performance from them today, altho Waterford were terrible from more or less the throw in. As someone said earlier i'd love to hear what Donal O'Grady thinks? I think the County Board should do everything in their power to entice him back as manager as he is the one man i think could come up with a game plan to counteract them

[los pasillos de hoy]

A few thoughts ... 1)Davy Fitz should be sent back to Clare pronto (and a crawling public apology should be made to Justin)
2) Cody is mad (but an excellent manager) 3) KK's win at all costs metality takes away from the amateur status of the game and from the game of hurling itself 4) Nicky Brennan's speech as the President of the GAA was pathetic in its level of bias 5) Waterford are not that bad and KK are good but not that good. If the rest of them had played like Mullane, at least we would have had a match 6) Cork need to get their house in order and fly Setanta back pronto 7) em ... that's it

[diar2me]

Maybe Waterford will now realise that it was not Justin underperforming but them! I feel sorry for the fans but the players should be ashamed of themselves!

[Coogee]

A few thoughts ... 1)Davy Fitz should be sent back to Clare pronto (and a crawling public apology should be made to Justin)
2) Cody is mad (but an excellent manager) 3) KK's win at all costs metality takes away from the amateur status of the game and from the game of hurling itself 4) Nicky Brennan's speech as the President of the GAA was pathetic in its level of bias 5) Waterford are not that bad and KK are good but not that good. If the rest of them had played like Mullane, at least we would have had a match 6) Cork need to get their house in order and fly Setanta back pronto 7) em ... that's it

what kind of a statement is that?

its that win at all costs mentality that seperate the great teams from the rest in any sport

[redrebel]

As usual D.OGrady does the expert analysis...
You wonder m did the players & Davy fitz start to believe all the hype around them.. Dan the man hurler of the year 2007, ..christ how the mighty have fallen. The lazy fuck never ran 10yrds today. Why didnt Davy take him off ?? its not like it was his first bad game this year.

[redrebel]

what kind of a statement is that?

its that win at all costs mentality that seperate the great teams from the rest in any sport


Indeed thats what all great teams have...whatever era you talk about..

[Eoin]

A few thoughts ... 1)Davy Fitz should be sent back to Clare pronto (and a crawling public apology should be made to Justin)


Its hardly Davys fault entirely. Justin had 6 years and they blew it every year as well. They never even made it this far under Justin. Considering how shit they were against Clare back in June, Davy has done a savage job getting them to an all-ireland. Justin did a great job turning them into one of the best teams in the country but he wasn't able to take them to the next level. From reading interviews with the players, it seems his training methods and management techniques were out-dated and he'd lost the confidence of the dressing room. He had to go.

[mepper]

We are going to waterford tonite...all pints 3.30

[mepper]

Jury's Croke park have announced their all Ireland special.... Roasted Blaas... lightly grill for 20 min,then turn up the heat for another 50min..... then leave to simmer for another 45yrs

[ANVIL]

Seem to remember Cork doing it against Waterford in the munster championship last year too. It is a last ditch thing.
They all do it

It's Mickey Mouse stuff and is laughable in an All-Ireland.
Typified the game - a disgrace.

[redrebel]

Don't mind seeing Cody get the MoTM award, honourable man, and great manager..

but its annoying for the poor man to have to sit beside that Snake Nicky brennan .:evil: his speech after the game was the biggest load of sh!te ever..

can't wait for him to F**k off...

[Hane]

We have good quality pitches nowadays, let the ball go on the ground down the flanks, it's the sensible thing to do. It's hard to be hooked, it takes the "hunting pack" out of the game and, hopefully, you might catch one of the cunts on the follow through.

You're right - the only way to counter the Kilkenny game is with ground hurling and overhead striking - keep the ball moving fast.

Unfortunately, this is not going to happen with the ridiculous shovels used as hurleys in Cork today.

[Corcaigh32]

You're right - the only way to counter the Kilkenny game is with ground hurling and overhead striking - keep the ball moving fast.

Unfortunately, this is not going to happen with the ridiculous shovels used as hurleys in Cork today.

The way to beat Kilkenny lads is to do what they did to us - analyse the strengths, weaknesses and tactics and exploit them. That's how they shut down our half back line, stopped the poc outs into the hand and basically ended the Cork poc out into hand-run-draw a man-let it go tactic.

The Kilkenny half back line stopped (stop) absolutely everything. The second they either claim ball in the air or sweep up the breaking ball the wing forwards move and the half backs automatically let it into them. After that, the skill of the forwards just clocked up the scoreboard. Cork proved there was no analysis done on Kilkenny before the semi by insisting on bombarding Pa Cronin with ball he couldn't win and essentially giving Kilkenny a platform. That's why the full forward line got no ball, that's why they "looked" ineffective and why eventually Deano and Naughton were taken off.

Now if you look at the hurling ability alone of Cork v Kilkenny, there is not that much difference. But in terms of having a game plan, tactical analysis, a plan a, b, c, d, e ready to go for if u go a man down, man up, it starts to rain, etc etc and the heart, passion and presence of mind and leadership on the line and on the pitch to read the game and react in real time we are light years behind them or at least we were this year.

The depressing thing is if something doesn't radically change in Cork for next year it will be 32-30 and counting.

[Hane]

Now if you look at the hurling ability alone of Cork v Kilkenny, there is not that much difference. But in terms of having a game plan, tactical analysis, a plan a, b, c, d, e ready to go for if u go a man down, man up, it starts to rain, etc etc and the heart, passion and presence of mind and leadership on the line and on the pitch to read the game and react in real time we are light years behind them or at least we were this year.

The depressing thing is if something doesn't radically change in Cork for next year it will be 32-30 and counting.

Dream on. Kilkenny were far ahead of Cork in terms of wristwork and striking. Their first touch was sharp: most Cork players took two or three touches to control the ball, like Waterford today.

It isn't a lack of heart, or the need for a Svengali on the line. The simple fact is that Kilkenny are sharper on the basic skills than any other team, by a long way. The game in Cork is lacking in some of the basic skills of the game, and the shape of hurleys we use is a symptom and (latterly) a cause of this. That might be my own monomania, though. :-P

[KolaKubes]

Dream on. Kilkenny were far ahead of Cork in terms of wristwork and striking. Their first touch was sharp: most Cork players took two or three touches to control the ball, like Waterford today.

It isn't a lack of heart, or the need for a Svengali on the line. The simple fact is that Kilkenny are sharper on the basic skills than any other team, by a long way. The game in Cork is lacking in some of the basic skills of the game, and the shape of hurleys we use is a symptom and (latterly) a cause of this. That might be my own monomania, though. :-P

There was nothing between the sides 24 months ago.

In fact, I think we were cheated out of a three in a row myself.

Our basic skills have lapsed since then.

I still think a well managed Cork team trumps this shower with their four lines of defenders.

[Hane]

There was nothing between the sides 24 months ago.

Well, around three points to be precise. We did well to be that close.

Our basic skills have lapsed since then.

The skills we emphasise have lapsed, sure. Our hooking and blocking was nonexistent this year. But what of the skills we have let go? When was the last time you saw a Cork team play a ground-stroke rather than crowd around the sliotar like a bunch of corner-boys trying to catch a rat for tea?

I still think a well managed Cork team trumps this shower with their four lines of defenders.

We'll see. Over the past 10 or 20 years, Kilkenny have been dominant. Perhaps now that we've fallen into second place on the roll of honour we can stop living off the glories of the 40s and 50s and start taking the game seriously. Kilkenny can produce outstanding hurlers in all positions. We produce great half-backs. What's their advantage? Genes?

I think not.

I can see this Kilkenny team winning five in a row. Tipp are the only team to stop them.

[KD Langer]

there was nothing between the sides 24 months ago.

In fact, i think we were cheated out of a three in a row myself.

Our basic skills have lapsed since then.

I still think a well managed cork team trumps this shower with their four lines of defenders.

jbm?

[Hane]

jbm?

Don't think we'll get anyone serious in until things change in the county board. We're competing with one arm tied.

Down with Frank. Vive la revolution! :silly:

[mr m]

The most complete hurling performance I've ever seen. Incredible team with the greatest manager hurling has ever seen. I don't think what I saw today can be underestimated. It was perfection, from backs to forwards, with an almost rabid intensity, and scores that are as good as you're ever going to see.

Greatest team in my lifetime.

[Corcaigh32]

Needs to be someone with Davy Fitz's passion, Cody's hurling brain, Cyril Farrell's PR skills and a love of Cork - in short I should do the job ;)

Donal O'Grady with Ger Cunningham, John Fenton and maybe someone like Brian Corcoran as selectors.

[Mr Jefferson]

Don't think we'll get anyone serious in until things change in the county board. We're competing with one arm tied.

Down with Frank. Vive la revolution! :silly:

I agree. We have the hurlers and footballers to challenge/win all-irelands. Things need to change behind the scenes for this to happen though. Too many off the field factors. Why else do Cork managers have a sell-by-date of 2 years.

[Johnnyc]

There is no point in me writing a big long post here, there will be enough said and written about this match in the days to come.

Cats gave a total performance and it was unreal to be honest.

I feel sorry for Waterford that they never showed up, so long trying to get there and then the Cats just don't let them play.

[Langer Dan]

the hyperbole surrounding this team is baffling.

Lets make no mistake, this was not the sublime game of total hurling as being expounded by the nationals, Waterford were abysmal.

They (as I predicted) completely shat the course.
They were an embarrassment yesterday, they absolutely capitulated on every level to the extent that the game was over as a contest after 25mins.

I say good enough for em after the shite they were saying about Justin in the run up to the final.

Kilkenny are a very dirty team, they are all about taking the player out before the sliotar arrives, Cork will get no protection from the incompetant gaa officials so I would thoroughly advocate a 'give as good as you get' mentality. If a fella clocks you put him down, simple as.

[Poc Fada]

Losing Donal O'Grady was probably the biggest upset to Cork's dominance of the naughties. OK, Allen won it the next year but didn't have any new ideas when KK worked out how to stop the running game.

I'd love to see O'Grady come back but he left for a reason. He's happy out now doing his media work which I imagine is very lucrative and has little of the pressures associated with being a Cork manager. We've had six managers since Cody took office so when we get a good one we need to make sure he stays. I wouldnt think O'Grady has any interest in taking on the job again - it reminds me of the nostalgia for Setanta. We have to move on.

Ger Cunningham might be a decent bet, with Tom Mulcahy in with a shout too. I also think the county board need to make a decision soonish so that the new boss has as much time as possible to seek new players and seem them in action during the county championship.

[Rebelred]

So, didn't see that coming.

Waterford froze but that should not take away from the fact that this Kilkenny team are simply the best. They're awesome in every area and have another 15 lads on the bench to back it up. They are, no matter what anybody thinks, a joy to watch.
6 All Irelands in 10 season, Brian Cody, take a bow. Congratulations to them.

[Langer Dan]

So, didn't see that coming.

Waterford froze but that should not take away from the fact that this Kilkenny team are simply the best. They're awesome in every area and have another 15 lads on the bench to back it up. They are, no matter what anybody thinks, a joy to watch.
6 All Irelands in 10 season, Brian Cody, take a bow. Congratulations to them.

ah theres no denying they are a fantastic team, no taking away from their achievements.

But lets break it down.
yesterday Waterford went into total meltdown, you would be hard pushed to find a collapse in sport as total as the shambles that of the Waterford senior hurling team yesterday.
I don't buy into this 'o that was the best performance in final ever'. You're only as good as the opposition and they were a pity yesterday.


That said, Iv no sympathy for em, zero.
The shite they were saying in the papers about Justin was a disgrace. 'The previous mangement dint do this, didnt do that, oh Davy has us doing everything right'.

Codswallop, this side were no hopers before and Justin seriously brought on the likes of Big Dan (Anonymous in Croker , yet again) and Mullane, turning them into fine hurlers, to completely discount his contribution to Waterford hurling in the space of a few months is nothing short of shameful.

Congratulations to Kilkenny and nobody disputes they were worthy winners this year but some of the rubbish being floated about in the media, is just that...kneejerk, reactive, RUBBISH.

[Langer Dan]

Posted 04-09-2008, 09:54 AM

Waterford are simply the biggest bottlers in hurling and I fully expect them to implode yet again come sunday.

.

Wasters.

[northmallexile]

ah theres no denying they are a fantastic team, no taking away from their achievements.

But lets break it down.
yesterday Waterford went into total meltdown, you would be hard pushed to find a collapse in sport as total as the shambles that of the Waterford senior hurling team yesterday.
I don't buy into this 'o that was the best performance in final ever'. You're only as good as the opposition and they were a pity yesterday.

.

I dunno. I'm hard-pressed to think of another team that took 33 out of 35 scoring chances. No matter how poor the opposition are, they're not going to score your points for you.

[Langer Dan]

I dunno. I'm hard-pressed to think of another team that took 33 out of 35 scoring chances. No matter how poor the opposition are, they're not going to score your points for you.

O'Grady highlighted it well on the sunday game,

looking at the Waterford puckouts you had only one waterford defender within twenty metres of goal, thats lunacy.

With a team as strong as Kilkenny at winning the breaks in midfield , you're only inviting trouble by leaving those sort of gaps at the back .

Waterford were chasing em up the field and leaving huge holes for the Kilkenny forwards to run into.

Crazy stuff.
As fine a display in finishing as it was, Waterford's tactics made it little more than a turkeyshoot.

[KolaKubes]

O'Grady highlighted it well on the sunday game,

looking at the Waterford puckouts you had only one waterford defender within twenty metres of goal, thats lunacy.

With a team as strong as Kilkenny at winning the breaks in midfield , you're only inviting trouble by leaving those sort of gaps at the back .

Waterford were chasing em up the field and leaving huge holes for the Kilkenny forwards to run into.

Crazy stuff.
As fine a display in finishing as it was, Waterford's tactics made it little more than a turkeyshoot.

Simple rule of thumb, deal with tactics by just aping your opponents initially then modify.

Kilkenny keep their back six deep and they keep their shape.

They aren't trying to keep their opposition scoreless and are willing to concede what points can be got against that system.

Most other teams are still obsessed with beating the opposition man for man, one by one.

Witness Diarmuid's performance against KK being hailed by all and sundry when the simple fact of the matter is that there was a gaping hole left behind him as he went off chasing the personal glory of beating his man.

It is as stupid as if John Terry was so committed to keeping Robbie Keane scoreless that he chased him all over the field, his team lost 3-1 as Utd piled through the gaps, and Terry was hailed for a stormer of a game on Torres.

Where the fuck were the Waterford lads when their defenders were isolated and being harried by three Kilkenny players?

Dragged into a safe place by the man they were man marking.

It's braindead stuff.

What depresses me is that the Cork minor team this year were chock-a-block with gifted hurlers playing a brand of egocentric hurling where the goal was to look good rather than be a cog in a winning team.

Possibly we need to consider that the selection process for underage teams favours this sort of attitude over the more subtle team player that a good coach can work with.

[bigboyfoolish]

the game KK are playing of crowding out things under the dropping ball and making it hard for a guy to pick the ball cleanly and play it clean after is readily dealt with. We have good quality pitches nowadays, let the ball go on the ground down the flanks, it's the sensible thing to do. It's hard to be hooked, it takes the "hunting pack" out of the game and, hopefully, you might catch one of the cunts on the follow through.




I think you talked a lot of sense there..

Lots of it..

Very interesting.

Maybe back to Ground Hurling is the way to go

[morello]

Simple rule of thumb, deal with tactics by just aping your opponents initially then modify.

Kilkenny keep their back six deep and they keep their shape.

They aren't trying to keep their opposition scoreless and are willing to concede what points can be got against that system.

Most other teams are still obsessed with beating the opposition man for man, one by one.

Witness Diarmuid's performance against KK being hailed by all and sundry when the simple fact of the matter is that there was a gaping hole left behind him as he went off chasing the personal glory of beating his man.

It is as stupid as if John Terry was so committed to keeping Robbie Keane scoreless that he chased him all over the field, his team lost 3-1 as Utd piled through the gaps, and Terry was hailed for a stormer of a game on Torres.

Where the fuck were the Waterford lads when their defenders were isolated and being harried by three Kilkenny players?

Dragged into a safe place by the man they were man marking.

It's braindead stuff.

What depresses me is that the Cork minor team this year were chock-a-block with gifted hurlers playing a brand of egocentric hurling where the goal was to look good rather than be a cog in a winning team.

Possibly we need to consider that the selection process for underage teams favours this sort of attitude over the more subtle team player that a good coach can work with.

That's a good post. The space left by the KK harrying posse sounds easier to exploit in theory than in reality however. We were discussing this yesterday and decided that a default hand-pass, e.g. always passing directly right-hand side, might be a way around it as it's the hesitation, once set upon, that is killing teams. You would have your support defaulting to the specified location each time. Could be complete waffle but it's a suggestion :cool:

Had to feel for Waterford yesterday, they realised their worst nightmares were coming true after 25 minutes and just wanted the ground to swallow them up rather than take account of what was going wrong and attempting to dig their way out of the hole. Mentally, they seemed to be fine in the first few minutes but the cracks appeared fairly quickly with Shefflin and Larkin the first two to let their respective markers Moran and Browne know that they were not up to the task.

Those saying that KK are not deserving of the praise they are getting, are off the mark however. It was absolutely sensational hurling. Some of the scores from Larkin, Shefflin and Brennan were unbelievable. Admittedly, the media are playing down Waterford's embarassing Antrim-esque role in the whole thing.

[bigboyfoolish]

:neutral:
While it's true that Kilkenny use "niggly" tactics they cannot be compared
to certain "big ball" teams who are simply thuggish. In my opinion it's
Kilkenny's ability to take their scores from all angles that wins them games.
:-D



I don't think they were being put under any real pressure though.
A lot of the time they were shooting yesterday and in acres of space..
No sign of a marker/hook/block/tackle..

I think there is huge merit in the Ground Hurling Philosophie..

[bigboyfoolish]

Jury's Croke park have announced their all Ireland special.... Roasted Blaas... lightly grill for 20 min,then turn up the heat for another 50min..... then leave to simmer for another 45yrs

Nasty but funny..

[bigboyfoolish]

What depresses me is that the Cork minor team this year were chock-a-block with gifted hurlers playing a brand of egocentric hurling where the goal was to look good rather than be a cog in a winning team.



Was the Minor team chock a block with gifted hurlers..

I didn't really see too many of em when were beaten by Galway..

Young Darragh Rogers looked half decent at full back and could be an
answer to allowing you move Sully up front as a target man

[KolaKubes]

Was the Minor team chock a block with gifted hurlers..

I didn't really see too many of em when were beaten by Galway..

Young Darragh Rogers looked half decent at full back and could be an
answer to allowing you move Sully up front as a target man

Ah ya, I thought maybe 4 of them were promising for the senior team. I'd consider that enough off of any minor team. If you could get that every year you'd be flying.

[Lee Bushwacker]

At least they were at the final not like you muppetts,now go fuck off anvil and drown youself in the nearest river!!!!

:cool:
What's seldom is wonderful!
After that battering you lot would be well-advised to stay well clear of
A.I. Finals for about 10 years at least! :vamp:

[ho chi feen]

Awesome display, for my money. I don't think Waterford bottled anything, they just weren't even close to being good enough to match the cats. This Waterford team, as we all know is not close to the level they were at from 2002-2006. They started with the idea of getting physical on KK, but KK took that in their stride. This Kilkenny team is the pick of Cody's sides. Physically strong, organised, aggressive, incredibly hardworking, fine hurlers to a man, and absolutely lethal all across the attack. Waterford, who aren't a bad side, weren't good enough to trouble them, but then I reckon few teams would have lived with their intensity yesterday- if any.

Hats off, and let's hope ourselves and the rest can up the game next year.

[BlueSkies]

From Donal O'Grady's analysis of the match:

FROM the evidence on display in the first half, Waterford lacked a defensive plan. The first error they made was to follow the Kilkenny half-forwards for their own puck-outs. Henry Shefflin, who had too much experience for Kevin Moran, Martin Comerford and Eoin Larkin retreated into the middle of the field for Clinton Hennessy’s puck outs, which were aimed towards the Waterford wing-forward positions.

Amazingly, Tony Browne, Kevin Moran and Ken McGrath pushed up with them: accordingly, once the Kilkenny half-backs won the ball – as they did most of the puck outs – there was acres of space for the Kilkenny inside forwards.

I wrote last week that Waterford had to have the 45m line as their defensive perimeter. By allowing themselves to be pulled out to the middle, they had no hope of squeezing the play as they needed to do.

Denying Kilkenny goals and staying the game for as long as possible was the only way forward for Waterford. When they fell behind the only ball they could play forward was long and hopeful, clearances that were eagerly pulled down by the super Kilkenny defence.

To win against Kilkenny is always very difficult, but a realistic plan is vital and that realism was absent yesterday. Waterford were static on the ball while Kilkenny moved with purpose whenever they were on the ball. No matter how Waterford played yesterday they wouldn’t have won, but they made it easier for Kilkenny with the lack of tactics.
http://examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=sport-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=71793-qqqx=1.asp

O'Grady should really be in charge of a hurling team, preferably our own.

[sticks and stones]

There was nothing between the sides 24 months ago.

In fact, I think we were cheated out of a three in a row myself.

Our basic skills have lapsed since then.

I still think a well managed Cork team trumps this shower with their four lines of defenders.



Delusional smalltimery from yourself especially, KK. No-one cares about 24 months ago. Where was TJ Reid 24 months ago ? Who cares ? Not much more than 24 hours ago he came on as a sub and matched the whole Waterford team's points tally from play.

Basic skills have lapsed in Cork, you say. Well, we have the skills, an endless conveyor belt (TJ isn't the only one), and Cody probably going nowhere fast. And a supportive County Board. And proper structures at grassroots.

How much of that pertains in Cork at the moment ? I ask genuinely.

And you think that a good manager and a bit of handbags will trump Kilkenny ? Forget about it.

I said it on this forum weeks ago - if you want to counteract us, ground hurling will be the way... maybe. But I think good ground hurling is even more intense and physical than the game we play now. And we do ok at that.

Awful stuff that you couldn't save the petty carping at least until we've met in championship hurling. To do it the day after that display, and with some gripe about being cheated...

...maybe you should just be glad you didn't make it to the final against that KK team yesterday.

Sorry if I antagonise any readers - not my purpose. I logged on to read the thoughts (including criticisms) of knowledgeable Cork hurling people.

[BlueSkies]

Delusional smalltimery from yourself especially, KK. No-one cares about 24 months ago. Where was TJ Reid 24 months ago ? Who cares ? Not much more than 24 hours ago he came on as a sub and matched the whole Waterford team's points tally from play.

Basic skills have lapsed in Cork, you say. Well, we have the skills, an endless conveyor belt (TJ isn't the only one), and Cody probably going nowhere fast. And a supportive Country Board. And proper structures at grassroots.

And you think that a good manager and a bit of handbags will trump Kilkenny ? Forget about it.

I said it on this forum weeks ago - if you want to counteract us, ground hurling will be the way... maybe. But I think good ground hurling is even more intense and physical than the game we play now. And we do ok at that.

Awful stuff that you couldn't save the petty carping at least until we've met in championship hurling. To do it the day after that display, and with some gripe about being cheated...

...maybe you should just be glad you didn't make it to the final against that KK team yesterday.

Maybe we should just give up hurling altogether.
Congrats for yesterday etc.

[redrebel]

Appearently 15 mins into the game John Mullane asked the ref for a sliotar.. the ref said "sure there's one on the field"... John said.."i know but Killkenny are using that one"...

[sticks and stones]

Maybe we should just give up hurling altogether.
Congrats for yesterday etc.

Well now, that's begging the question.

But if I wanted to be silly about it, you didn't say anything I couldn't have said for myself.

[BlueSkies]

Well now, that's begging the question.

But if I wanted to be silly about it, you didn't say anything I couldn't have said for myself.

Fair enough, you seem like a reasonable chap, and the intention isn't really to slight Kilkenny, but to maximise the potential of our own lads.
There's simply no way that a properly managed Cork team would have been hammered in the manner that we were against KK this year, not to mind losing to Tipp in the Munster championship.

[bigboyfoolish]

Well we all better get used to it because Ger Mac is around again next year as far as I'm hearing.
No disrespect to GM who is an immense Hurling Man but we do need someone with more steel.

And I have no idea who?

[los pasillos de hoy]

I think you talked a lot of sense there..

Lots of it..

Very interesting.

Maybe back to Ground Hurling is the way to go

Yeah but doesn't anyone remember the last time they beat us in the final and for some unknown reason the grass was unusually long ...

[los pasillos de hoy]

Well we all better get used to it because Ger Mac is around again next year as far as I'm hearing.
No disrespect to GM who is an immense Hurling Man but we do need someone with more steel.

And I have no idea who?

Ger Mac is a Frank Murphy apointee and we all know what the players think of him. If the setup was right in Cork we'd be talking a different story

[Coogee]

ah theres no denying they are a fantastic team, no taking away from their achievements.

But lets break it down.
yesterday Waterford went into total meltdown, you would be hard pushed to find a collapse in sport as total as the shambles that of the Waterford senior hurling team yesterday.
I don't buy into this 'o that was the best performance in final ever'. You're only as good as the opposition and they were a pity yesterday.


That said, Iv no sympathy for em, zero.
The shite they were saying in the papers about Justin was a disgrace. 'The previous mangement dint do this, didnt do that, oh Davy has us doing everything right'.

Codswallop, this side were no hopers before and Justin seriously brought on the likes of Big Dan (Anonymous in Croker , yet again) and Mullane, turning them into fine hurlers, to completely discount his contribution to Waterford hurling in the space of a few months is nothing short of shameful.

Congratulations to Kilkenny and nobody disputes they were worthy winners this year but some of the rubbish being floated about in the media, is just that...kneejerk, reactive, RUBBISH.

you cant just admit it dan that this kilkenny are the greatest team to ever play the game....no matter how bad waterford were Kilkenny still showed the skill and hunger to blow them off the field....lesser teams would have taken their foot off the gas but not this team....

Its not what the game needs but i fear with the players at their disposal, the production line of talent coming through and with the drive that cody seems to instill into this team i cant see them loosing a championship game for years to come!!

[KolaKubes]

Yeah but doesn't anyone remember the last time they beat us in the final and for some unknown reason the grass was unusually long ...

I'd forgotten about that!

That cunt Brennan.

[Lee Bushwacker]

:rolleyes:
Any truth in the rumour that Waterford City Council have decided to twin
with 2 Japanese cities after last Sunday. Their choice of cities is appropriate.
Hiroshima & Nagasaki! :twisted:

[bigboyfoolish]

I'd forgotten about that!

That cunt Brennan.

ah we need to put all pettiness aside and come up with a proper plan.


No use in dwelling on it for too long..

They are something else..

That is very unfortunate for us but maybe it will force people into a re-think.
O'Grady is right. Cork's place at the top of the roll of honour was built on Ring/Lynch et al back in the forties and fifties.
Billy Morgan in an interview before Christmas observed that 'how many have we won in both hurling and football in the last 30 years?'

From 1978 to 2008

7 Hurling
2 Football

That's 9 Senior titles from 60.

ABYSMAL RETURN SAY I!!!!!:(

[bigboyfoolish]

Come mere lads.. I'm trying to find this Justin MacCarthy book
and it doesn't seem to be available anywhere for sale.

Out of print on Amazon.. anyone know where I could lay my hands on a
copy..

[Langer Dan]

you cant just admit it dan that this kilkenny are the greatest team to ever play the game....no matter how bad waterford were Kilkenny still showed the skill and hunger to blow them off the field....lesser teams would have taken their foot off the gas but not this team....

Its not what the game needs but i fear with the players at their disposal, the production line of talent coming through and with the drive that cody seems to instill into this team i cant see them loosing a championship game for years to come!!

Pure hyperbole.

[Rebelred]

Delusional smalltimery from yourself especially, KK. No-one cares about 24 months ago. Where was TJ Reid 24 months ago ? Who cares ? Not much more than 24 hours ago he came on as a sub and matched the whole Waterford team's points tally from play.

Basic skills have lapsed in Cork, you say. Well, we have the skills, an endless conveyor belt (TJ isn't the only one), and Cody probably going nowhere fast. And a supportive County Board. And proper structures at grassroots.

How much of that pertains in Cork at the moment ? I ask genuinely.

And you think that a good manager and a bit of handbags will trump Kilkenny ? Forget about it.

I said it on this forum weeks ago - if you want to counteract us, ground hurling will be the way... maybe. But I think good ground hurling is even more intense and physical than the game we play now. And we do ok at that.

Awful stuff that you couldn't save the petty carping at least until we've met in championship hurling. To do it the day after that display, and with some gripe about being cheated...

...maybe you should just be glad you didn't make it to the final against that KK team yesterday.

Sorry if I antagonise any readers - not my purpose. I logged on to read the thoughts (including criticisms) of knowledgeable Cork hurling people.

You're post is pretty much spot on. We (Cork people) need to stop living on past glories of 3 and 4 seasons ago, and get with the program quickly. We're already in serious danger of being left behind by Kilkenny. Ask yourself this, who are the favourites for 09 and who is going to be close to stopping them? We're not in either category unless we make some serious changes and get back to basics. Kilkenny have a flood of talent coming through, anybody who doesn't believe this should watch next sundays Under 21 All Ireland Final and they'll be in for a rude awakening. Fennelly and the two Hogans are serious hurlers, all of whom would probably have made our senior team this year.

I've been disappointed over the last few days with the lack of appreciation for Kilkennys achievement around Cork. They've deservedly won three in a row and are head and shoulders above every other team in the country, and all people here seem to be doing is bitching and moaning about long grass and hard hitting( but fair) hurling.
We're becoming soft!

[KolaKubes]

ah we need to put all pettiness aside and come up with a proper plan.


No use in dwelling on it for too long..

They are something else..

That is very unfortunate for us but maybe it will force people into a re-think.
O'Grady is right. Cork's place at the top of the roll of honour was built on Ring/Lynch et al back in the forties and fifties.
Billy Morgan in an interview before Christmas observed that 'how many have we won in both hurling and football in the last 30 years?'

From 1978 to 2008

7 Hurling
2 Football

That's 9 Senior titles from 60.

ABYSMAL RETURN SAY I!!!!!:(

Over a third of all the Hurling All-Irelands though, same as your historical record.

I suppose in Billy's head (if few other Corkmen's), football is as important.

It's not though.

[KolaKubes]

You're post is pretty much spot on. We (Cork people) need to stop living on past glories of 3 and 4 seasons ago, and get with the program quickly. We're already in serious danger of being left behind by Kilkenny. Ask yourself this, who are the favourites for 09 and who is going to be close to stopping them? We're not in either category unless we make some serious changes and get back to basics. Kilkenny have a flood of talent coming through, anybody who doesn't believe this should watch next sundays Under 21 All Ireland Final and they'll be in for a rude awakening. Fennelly and the two Hogans are serious hurlers, all of whom would probably have made our senior team this year.

I've been disappointed over the last few days with the lack of appreciation for Kilkennys achievement around Cork. They've deservedly won three in a row and are head and shoulders above every other team in the country, and all people here seem to be doing is bitching and moaning about long grass and hard hitting( but fair) hurling.
We're becoming soft!

Oh, I dunno, I still think they robbed us in 2006.

[bigboyfoolish]

7 from 30 is not a third KK

It's actually less than a 1/4 which is very poor considering we're meant to be top dog.

How many have Kilkenny won in the same time???
They have 6 in the last 8 years alone..

[KolaKubes]

7 from 30 is not a third KK

It's actually less than a 1/4 which is very poor considering we're meant to be top dog.

How many have Kilkenny won in the same time???
They have 6 in the last 8 years alone..

Crikey.

I knew I should have had that second coffee this morning. ;)

Mea culpa etc etc.

Yes, fair point so.

[Rebelred]

Oh, I dunno, I still think they robbed us in 2006.

Ben's late goal simply put a gloss on the scoreline that day. We reacted very slowly that day, from leaving Pat Mul on Fogarty for 50 minutes to not changing our approach when Hickey was wrestling Corcoran for every ball.

[Lamps]

7 from 30 is not a third KK

It's actually less than a 1/4



Jesus Christ.

And this guy is a "scientest"

[KolaKubes]

Jesus Christ.

And this guy is a "scientest"

A scientist even. ;)

[HappyMonday83]

Jesus Christ.

And this guy is a "scientest"

Yesterday he claimed he was a doctor. :lol!:

[Lamps]

Yesterday he claimed he was a doctor. :lol!:

tomorrow he'll be working in the call centre with myself

[HappyMonday83]

tomorrow he'll be working in the call centre with myself

The reintroduction of college fees is going to rattle him to his very core.

[KolaKubes]

tomorrow he'll be working in the call centre with myself

never!

[bigboyfoolish]

Mutha fuckas.. deserved those I suppose..

it's actually less than a 1/4

I'm no scientest I can assure people..

They could tell me that they found Jesus himself in Switzerland today and I'd believe it..

[bigboyfoolish]

But it is less than a 1/4..

Poor enough in any mans language I suppose..

Has anyone got or know where to get the Justin McCarthy book?
Mad to read it..