View Full Version : Question for Dan Boyle
Seeing that you're posting on here and part of the government now, would you like to defent the new Intoxicating Liquor Act, which looks like the most flawed piece of legislation by any government for a long time?
I'd particularly like to know why closing all establishments at the same time is such a good idea.
lyspy
10-07-2008, 06:12 PM
It is frightening how out of touch these people are. I think all public reprasentatives should be obliged to explain every decision like this to interested parties/members of the public in a public forum(not an online one obviously)
I have not spoken to a single individual who agrees with the idea of tightening up closing times. Everybody knows the problems that will be caused by this except it seems our Government.
It is frightening how out of touch these people are. I think all public reprasentatives should be obliged to explain every decision like this to interested parties/members of the public in a public forum(not an online one obviously)
I have not spoken to a single individual who agrees with the idea of tightening up closing times. Everybody knows the problems that will be caused by this except it seems our Government.
Reading Dermot Aherns remarks from the Dail discussions on the bill was quite troubling I have to say. He hasn't a clue. He hasnt' been near a nightclub in decades I'd say, yet he refused to listen to any recommendatiosn(even from those within his own party I might add) from people who have.
Despite this, it was quite encouraging to hear people like Pat Rabitte and Charlie Flanagans ideas, they seem to have at least listened to people involved in the industry.
You know what to do at the next election lads.
Just finished voting on this. In my second stage speech I put down my concerns on this, but the Minister has held his position. We had some affect some changes such as early hour bars, but in a coalition each bill is for negotiation. While it isn't consistent with our own view on this, we choose to stay in government or not, and to be honest this would not an issue we would leave government on.
A similar bill is back again in the autumn and maybe some tweaking can be done then.
Just finished voting on this. In my second stage speech I put down my concerns on this, but the Minister has held his position. We had some affect some changes such as early hour bars, but in a coalition each bill is for negotiation. While it isn't consistent with our own view on this, we choose to stay in government or not, and to be honest this would not an issue we would leave government on.
A similar bill is back again in the autumn and maybe some tweaking can be done then.
Good to see Dermot Ahern listening to his fellow partners in government.
It amazes me that despite opposition from within his own party, and from the other members of the coalition, he was still able to push this bill through.
Its a disgrace. Whats the point in voting for your local TD if he's not going to be listened to by one of the big boys??
Seriously, if FF get back into government next time, then this country deserves everything it gets.
Comeretamebubbilah
11-07-2008, 10:13 AM
Another typical reaction from this government. Lets throw everyone out at the same time. Let the bottle necks at the taxi ranks and chippers increase. This will obviously have a calming influence on people as it will be earlier in the night. Sure people wont go out earlier now.? It will solve all drink related crime. People wont drink faster and more spirits to make up for lost time...
Cant these people not see for themselves that the majority of mainland europe have very relaxed serving laws. It would take a bit of time but eventually people would get used to the idea that they didnt have to go on the lash in the space of 4-5 hours and could sip away for the night. People would come and go as they please which would substantally reduce the bottle necks at taxi ranks and chippers...People would no longer be herded out onto the streets at the same time which is the main reason for a lot of incidents..
Also with regard to the offlicenses having to close an hour earlier...that will really stop the kids getting alcohol..its definitely after 10.30 that most of the kids buy their alcohol..now they wont be able to so problem solved...What kind of logic is this? moronic....
And they've also targetted supermarkets...final ly irish people are getting a decent deal on beer etc...and now the government are taking that away..For far too long we paid over the top prices in off licenses compared to the rest of europe. Supermarkets finally coped onto the fact that by reducing their prices would increase their sales. People could finally get a bargain here and there...Just because people buy a 24 case of beer, does not mean that they are going to drink it at once. It just means that they dont have to spend as much...This legislation has put this at jepordy...Im sick to death of these nany state rules...You're all too stupid as adults to make your own choices in life so we're gonna cut the number of choices that you have..its all bullshit....grrr
Exactly, you have to laugh at their reasoning.
Lets stop underage drinking by closing nightclubs earlier.
How many 15 year olds are out clubbing every week??
I'll give Dan the benefit of the doubt on the coalition thing. I can see how issues like climate change could be a bigger issue for his party. But I expect to see a way better bus service in Cork by the next election and if we're talking about reducing public order problems, how about a nitelink.
Now, it's not an easy thing to say, but I assume the Green Party have realised that for the next few months the Green Party have Fianna Fail by the bollocks. I made a comment at the time that the coalition deal was bad for the Greens, because any time there was an argument Fianna Fail could say "Go on, walk" because they weren't needed numbers wise. But the fact is that at least until the Dublin South bye-election, the Green Party are needed by Fianna Fail, so now is the time to play hardball. It's not nice that it was caused by the death of one of the more popular members of Fianna Fail, but I think we all know it's what Fianna Fail would do.
Anyway, back to the legislation. I think people are broadly agree that it will do nothing to address the problems that it is supposed to be addressing, so what alternatives do people have to reducing excessive alcohol consumption and public order problems?
Things I would suggest would be
Decent night public transport in the regional cities. Get people away from where trouble can start before it starts.
Staggered closing times. Licences should become progressively more expensive as a premises stays open later to help pay for the extra Garda overtime etc. that this would cause.
Longer drinking up time (at least 1 hour). It will spread the load of people leaving an individual premises and allow people to sober up a bit. Non-alcoholic drinks should be served during this period.
Changes that would alter the character of the pub-barns that exist to pour alcohol down people's necks and no more (Rearden's etc.). A minimum level of seating would be required. People drink more when they're standing. It's no coincidence that publicans remove a lot of the seating later in the evening. Licence fees should be charged dependent on the number of square metres in the pub. The current system discriminates against smaller premises, yet these are rarely the source of problems. It also means a lot of rural villages are losing their pubs, which is also not a good thing.
Cafe/Bars. McDowell wasn't wrong about everything. But he was a teribble salesman. Replace "continental-style cafe/bars" with "smaller family run establishments" and the whole thing would have been a lot more sellable.
Would we see these changes? Of course not. They would be opposed by the LVF, who seemingly have more impact on government policsy than the coalition partners.
I think that there needs to be an introduction of different licenses for different venues.
nightclub license, late bar license, bar license, restaurant licence etc.
Each one would have a maximum closing time and there would have to be an even distribution of the licenses within a specified area to ensure a proper staggering of the closing hours.
Also, after the staggered closing was introduced, I'd like to see harsher sentences and fines for people caught causing trouble. If you're caught fighting on a night out, then its a 1000 euro fine, no questions asked.
Something I'd like to see, but its not going to happen any time soon, is venues allowed to remain open after sales of alchohol have finished, so taht even when drink has stopped being served, clubs could open for as long as they want. having clubs close as soon as drink is no longer available only serves to further the links between drinking and socialising IMO.
Something I'd like to see, but its not going to happen any time soon, is venues allowed to remain open after sales of alchohol have finished, so taht even when drink has stopped being served, clubs could open for as long as they want. having clubs close as soon as drink is no longer available only serves to further the links between drinking and socialising IMO.
That's very similar to my third point, but I'd go as far as to say they should be obliged to stay open for a certain period to help break that link. But your idea that they could stay open as effective non-alcoholic venues is a very good one.
That's very similar to my third point, but I'd go as far as to say they should be obliged to stay open for a certain period to help break that link. But your idea that they could stay open as effective non-alcoholic venues is a very good one.
The thing is, a huge amount of places wouldn't bother staying open as non-alcoholic as it wouldn't be worth their while.
However a small number of clubs would keep going til 5/6 in the morning until people started to leave of their own accord anyway.
strict66
01-09-2008, 02:42 AM
Just finished voting on this. In my second stage speech I put down my concerns on this, but the Minister has held his position. We had some affect some changes such as early hour bars, but in a coalition each bill is for negotiation. While it isn't consistent with our own view on this, we choose to stay in government or not, and to be honest this would not an issue we would leave government on.
A similar bill is back again in the autumn and maybe some tweaking can be done then.
tweaking the bill , how about scrapping it .
It isnt worth leaving Goverment for I'd agree with you there.
Heres a penny for your thoughts . You know most crime or disorder happens under the cover of dark. To me and a lot of people our public disorder problem is a no brainer. At 2am all across the city (Just using cork as an example) a few thousand mainly drunk people are simultaneously ejected onto the our badly Policed streets(cctv isnt policing in my book its spying) . With no decent public transport and rush to get taxis well its a recipe for disaster.
Look at mainland Europe and England . Clubs stay open all night people come and go at their pleasure. Even those in the service industry have an opportunity to have a drink.
What you find is many people either leaving early getting a cab or staying on a going home on public transport.
The barbarians at the gate scenes that seem to be unique to here and Britian at 2am are a rare if non existent site in Europe and indeed the states.
The two main differences are attitudes to alcohol and Policing .
In the states especially you will always see a heavy presence outside night clubs and pubs with tastey reputation as suppose to the skeleton staff that polices our streets at night.
As for why this is I dont Know ? maybe our boys in blue are too tired for from handing out parking tickets and checking tax and insurance all day.
SPOGGEM
01-09-2008, 02:58 AM
On the CCTV, its a vital tool for police. I accept people have concerns over privacy but CCTV is vital in preventing (to a lesser extent) AND detecting crime.
If you view it as an evil its a necessary one.
On the issue of policing the streets, manpower is a big issue especially in recessional times (only recent I know) but in the last few years when Public Order has been a problem the resources simply have not been there.
I believe we should have more specialised Public Order units policing the streets at weekends/ big events etc. Not quite a 'meet fire with fire approach' primarily a peventative measure, but if a problem arises then be equipped to deal with it.
In alot of countries this is the case with Public Order policing being a specific area and not always being left to 'Regular' policing units.
On all the other points I agree.
strict66
01-09-2008, 03:26 AM
On the CCTV, its a vital tool for police. I accept people have concerns over privacy but CCTV is vital in preventing (to a lesser extent) AND detecting crime.
If you view it as an evil its a necessary one.
On the issue of policing the streets, manpower is a big issue especially in recessional times (only recent I know) but in the last few years when Public Order has been a problem the resources simply have not been there.
I believe we should have more specialised Public Order units policing the streets at weekends/ big events etc. Not quite a 'meet fire with fire approach' primarily a peventative measure, but if a problem arises then be equipped to deal with it.
In alot of countries this is the case with Public Order policing being a specific area and not always being left to 'Regular' policing units.
On all the other points I agree.
True personal feeling asides cctv is a great tool for police but it shouldnt be the sole instrument. I also feel its less implented as an aid in crime detection and prevention and more as a cost cutter. Also I never seen down alleys or side streets . The way they are numerous and concealed especially on the south mall dots the i and joins the t for me .
On a personal level my disdain for there use in Police work is this.
About a year ago my mate and I stumbled upon a fairly vicous fight on princess st. . How no one died I dont know . One guys head was cracked open and he was still getting it on the ground. .
Trust me on this intervening wouldnt have been the smart option plus the Gardai are payed for that. When we rang them and this wasnt too late the Garda said ya we're watching it here they started on Oliver Plunkett st.
When I said did you notice the guy on the ground was out cold with blood coming out his nose , ears and head , he went jees no tis fairly serious so.
Better send a car over.
Red Star Hardkore
01-09-2008, 10:59 AM
unique to here and Britian at 2am
From what I hear, Britain has actually improved a lot since the 24hr opening came in. Basically the pubs and clubs can only open for a limited amount of consecutive hours per day/night (I think 12 or 16) but can choose what time they open/close at. No more throwing everybody out onto the street at the same time anymore.
To be honest, me and my girlfriend very rarely go into town on a night out anymore. It's too dangerous. If we did go out for a birthday or something we'd leave about 1ish just to avoid trouble. I've had my fair share of trouble in town over the years but when you have a kid you realise that it's not worth it anymore.
I really find it unfair that we should have to worry about making it home in one piece on a Saturday night/Sunday morning like this just because our out of touch government don't listen to the people and don't take into account solutions that have worked in other European countries.
los pasillos de hoy
10-09-2008, 10:03 PM
Who exactly is Dan Boyle?
donpoblok
11-09-2008, 01:54 AM
[QUOTE=DBTD;2135793]Just finished voting on this. In my second stage speech I put down my concerns on this, but the Minister has held his position. QUOTE]
you seem to be making a career out of opposing FF while, at the same time, having absolutely no effect on them. just as well i am not the suspicious type who might think you are both self serving (you know your objections are nothing more than tokenism designed to do little other than garner publicity for yourself) and a complete hypocrite (who has abandoned principle for position) :-D
keep up the good (non) work!
in the meantime, why not actually take on the vested interests that are the drinks industry (who were, unbelievably, praised by FF for their willingness to 'self regulate' their practices...an option i am sure every single person and industry in this country would sign up for given half a chance) and, in that way, do something about the collateral damge that occurs thanks to their particularmodus operandi
btw, congratulations to the council for their no support vote for gormley. proper order. i only hope they will follow this up with something more substantial :p
donpoblok
11-09-2008, 01:57 AM
Who exactly is Dan Boyle?
you'd have to ask him that lol
Bittter twisted nonsense. 3 posts and you know everything about me.
donpoblok
11-09-2008, 05:44 PM
Bittter twisted nonsense. 3 posts and you know everything about me.
is there something we are all missing?
Jah Fats#
11-09-2008, 05:59 PM
Bittter twisted nonsense. 3 posts and you know everything about me.
How about addressing some of the issues\ suggestions that were raised (see below)?
Things I would suggest would be
Decent night public transport in the regional cities. Get people away from where trouble can start before it starts.
Staggered closing times. Licences should become progressively more expensive as a premises stays open later to help pay for the extra Garda overtime etc. that this would cause.
Longer drinking up time (at least 1 hour). It will spread the load of people leaving an individual premises and allow people to sober up a bit. Non-alcoholic drinks should be served during this period.
Changes that would alter the character of the pub-barns that exist to pour alcohol down people's necks and no more (Rearden's etc.). A minimum level of seating would be required. People drink more when they're standing. It's no coincidence that publicans remove a lot of the seating later in the evening. Licence fees should be charged dependent on the number of square metres in the pub. The current system discriminates against smaller premises, yet these are rarely the source of problems. It also means a lot of rural villages are losing their pubs, which is also not a good thing.
Cafe/Bars. McDowell wasn't wrong about everything. But he was a teribble salesman. Replace "continental-style cafe/bars" with "smaller family run establishments" and the whole thing would have been a lot more sellable.
Would we see these changes? Of course not. They would be opposed by the LVF, who seemingly have more impact on government policsy than the coalition partners.
How about checking out my previous posts? How about reading my Seanad speech? I agree with all of jd26's posts, think they're all on the money.
hemlock666
10-10-2008, 02:46 PM
Hi Dan
Quick question? Seeing as the Green Party is in the business of protecting the enviornment why at the last election did I get 4 Green party fliers in one day shoved through my letterbox? During a the last two weeks I get mountains of the carp and a sizable amount was from you guys. Sure they're recycled but its a bit hard to take your motives seriously. Also the bedhopping with Fianna Fail has guaranteed that you wont get my vote next time.
donpoblok
10-10-2008, 06:38 PM
DBTD: 'How about reading my Seanad speech? '
Why should we bother? You are not an elected representative. You were put in place by FF as part of the deal that sees yourself and others like the Minimum for the Environment firmly in place as part of the governnment prop up operation.It is like saying that we should go off and read the jottings of any other person in the country.
On a realted note, maybe you would like to comment on Minimum's enstating councillors illegaly on different boards? Very FF.
And, why not change your name here to reflect your status? DBXTD perhaps!
Arcadia
17-10-2008, 11:29 PM
After the mockery of a budget and the equally farce "Carbon Budget" what is your position now on the position of means testing medical cards for the over 70's ? As a member of the current government of whom if there was an election tomorrow would get rightly thrown out of office for the lack of concern for the dignity for the most vulnerable of our society in this mean gesture for fiscal jiggery-pokery. Would 2 cents on the price of a pint of beer have been such a bad idea ?
There are a lot of people looking forward to the next general election and not all of them are over 70.
Shame on you.
P.S.I am off to work now on my imaginary bike to work so I can claim instead of getting on our world class non-existant public transport system in Cork*
*The place that rejected you at the polls.
Some user
20-10-2008, 01:20 PM
Longer drinking up time (at least 1 hour). It will spread the load of people leaving an individual premises and allow people to sober up a bit. Non-alcoholic drinks should be served during this period.
A worthwhile suggestion but the pubs would be opposed to it. Bar staff would hate sitting around for an hour waiting for people to drink up. In winter lots of bars open up the doors to freeze people out of it which I think is shitty. The old Bodega management were always at that.
You could be right though. It would prevent people massing outside pubs, chippers and taxi ranks at the same time.
Have to say though I haven't seen a punch up in Cork after a club or pub in ages. I know they probably happen regularly enough but I havent seen on in a long time.
Some user
20-10-2008, 01:22 PM
*The place that rejected you at the polls.
And put Deirdre Clune in there instead. Mockery.
mixamytosis
21-10-2008, 08:13 PM
Who is benifiting from closing off licences at 10pm, the Vintners Association of the public? What was the goal of this piece of legislation? Is there going to be a government effort to stop clubs from selling extremely cheap alcohol i.e. Gorbys €2 vodka?
los pasillos de hoy
21-10-2008, 10:33 PM
who exactly IS dan boyle?
Lamps
21-10-2008, 10:42 PM
This thread should be removed at this stage.
In fairness to Boyler, he's one of the top 2 most able politicans in Cork city and county and he pasted Joan Burton during the week on the telly. But, he'll struggle to be elected again over getting into bed with FF.
The greens need to jump ship or they'll face the same fate as the PD's
Bill O'Reilly
22-10-2008, 04:47 PM
The last time they liberalised the drinking laws in Ireland with extended late opening hours, in around 2000, the result was anarchy with at least two young people beaten to death in Cork city centre and of course the famous Brian Murphy case in Dublin as a direct result of drink related violence. As proved before, most Irish people tend to remain in the pub/club until close. In this country, both staggered opening hours and bar extensions have already comprehensively failed.
Closing off-licences early at 10pm in both pubs and on the street is a very smart move. It forces people to plan their drinking rather than spontaneously binge drinking. I do think they should limit the amount one person can order at the bar in one go. Limiting each order to two drinks per order would stop people buying rounds of drink and thus binge drinking. They should also raise the tax on spirits and lower it on beer and less alcoholic drinks. Any spirit over a certain percentage of alcohol such as 40% should be banned outright in this country.
At the end of the day off-licences, pubs and clubs are liquid drug dealers and should be regulated by the state. I would be concerned though at the number of Fianna Fail TDs from country areas (such as Kerry and the Midlands), that are also publicans and seek to manipulate drinking laws to their own advantage. This has happened in the past.
Bill O'Reilly
22-10-2008, 04:51 PM
Boyle (GP) losing his seat to Deirdre "Clueless" Clune (FG) was a bad result for Cork in the last election. In fact Fine Gael in Cork remain a laughing stock. They need to ditch End-a, Clueless Clune and that old past-it guy out west. For the last eight years Young Fine Gael have been on the road to becoming the new Nazi Party. The demise of the PDs should be a wake up call to these far-right, rich, misguided, ignorant young fellas that make up Young Fine Gael.
The last time they liberalised the drinking laws in Ireland with extended late opening hours, in around 2000, the result was anarchy with at least two young people beaten to death in Cork city centre and of course the famous Brian Murphy case in Dublin as a direct result of drink related violence. As proved before, most Irish people tend to remain in the pub/club until close. In this country, both staggered opening hours and bar extensions have already comprehensively failed.
Closing off-licences early at 10pm in both pubs and on the street is a very smart move. It forces people to plan their drinking rather than spontaneously binge drinking. I do think they should limit the amount one person can order at the bar in one go. Limiting each order to two drinks per order would stop people buying rounds of drink and thus binge drinking. They should also raise the tax on spirits and lower it on beer and less alcoholic drinks. Any spirit over a certain percentage of alcohol such as 40% should be banned outright in this country.
At the end of the day off-licences, pubs and clubs are liquid drug dealers and should be regulated by the state. I would be concerned though at the number of Fianna Fail TDs from country areas (such as Kerry and the Midlands), that are also publicans and seek to manipulate drinking laws to their own advantage. This has happened in the past.
And there was no on-street violence before the licencing laws changed. Give me a break.
Also, you'll notice that a lot of my original suggestion were aimed at dealing with public order problems - a longer period between the end of selling alcohol and the pub actually closing, staggered closing times etc.
In the meantime, you'd like to penalise those who've never done anything wrong and micro-control people's lives. :rolleyes:
RizzlaRebel
19-12-2008, 11:25 PM
Not too sure if it is the same in the Seanad but presume it is, how do ye justify 39 days off for Christmas??
The economy is going down the drain, we get a rehash of policies to sort it out and then off on holidays for the lads for 39 days!
Enjoy it will be worse when ye get back!!!!
hemlock666
19-01-2009, 02:33 PM
On the subject. How do you justify the existance of the Seanad, which lets face it is Irelands answer to the House of Lords?
I know the speil about debating bills etc will be used as a way to validate its presence. But in England the same can be said of the House of Lords. So as well as an overpaid, overstaffed and incompitent dail we have also have a state funded debate club for ex ministers, people who have never actually left college and opinionated gentry.
Why does it still exist?
Valid answers only please as traditional, cultural and historical reasons mean nothing in relation to the efficent running of a modern democracy.
Arcadia
21-01-2009, 02:22 PM
Cutbacks in public transport
In this section »
President ObamaState of the Irish banksMinister and McKevittSmoke-free hospitalsLabour and the First DáilProgress in hospital reform
Madam, – One wonders what kind of Walter Mitty Land the Minister for Transport, Mr Dempsey, lives in (January 14th).
He seems to think that Dublin Bus can actually increase the number of commuters they carry this year, this on the back of a 10 per cent increase in fares on January 1st, and a forthcoming 10 per cent reduction in services.
This at a time when fuel prices at the pumps are falling. Does he really think that people will leave their cars sitting outside and wait for a bus, in the middle of winter?
The Minister’s actions in downgrading public transport can only have a negative effect on Ireland’s carbon emissions and our commitment to the Kyoto Protocol.
Would it not be better to keep people working in Dublin Bus rather than paying them the dole and paying fines for being in breach of our Kyoto obligations? Voodoo economics meets voodoo carbonomics. – Yours, etc,
BILLY MOLLOY, Ostman Place, Manor Street, Dublin 7.
hiawatha
21-01-2009, 03:28 PM
On the subject. How do you justify the existance of the Seanad, which lets face it is Irelands answer to the House of Lords?
I know the speil about debating bills etc will be used as a way to validate its presence. But in England the same can be said of the House of Lords. So as well as an overpaid, overstaffed and incompitent dail we have also have a state funded debate club for ex ministers, people who have never actually left college and opinionated gentry.
Why does it still exist?
Valid answers only please as traditional, cultural and historical reasons mean nothing in relation to the efficent running of a modern democracy.
I reckon there is a reasonable argument to be made for a bicameral parliament. The real problem with the Seanad is the way the appointment system. And similar to the Dáil there's probably a few too many of them. I don't have any well-thought out plan for exactly what reform is necessary in the appointment process and so on, but I think, if it were properly reformed, two chambers is a very useful system.
I can't think of any off the top of my head but there are plenty of occasions where the Seanad has made significant and worthwhile amendments to legislation over the years. I'm sure a very small amount of research would back up this point.
Arcadia
21-01-2009, 03:31 PM
Last Election.
"Vote for the Greens and we'll get Fianna Fail out of Government"
Waste of a vote.
I voted for Dan Boyle.
Actin The Sham
22-01-2009, 01:43 PM
I reckon there is a reasonable argument to be made for a bicameral parliament. The real problem with the Seanad is the way the appointment system. And similar to the Dáil there's probably a few too many of them. I don't have any well-thought out plan for exactly what reform is necessary in the appointment process and so on, but I think, if it were properly reformed, two chambers is a very useful system.
I can't think of any off the top of my head but there are plenty of occasions where the Seanad has made significant and worthwhile amendments to legislation over the years. I'm sure a very small amount of research would back up this point.
They should use the Council Of State to "quality assure" legislation passed by the dáil. Then they should close the seanad. It is inherently undemocratic as its members are not representative of all of the electorate. They are appointed by the NUI, and the government of the day.
We have too many government debating shops for 4 million people.
hemlock666
22-01-2009, 02:28 PM
They should use the Council Of State to "quality assure" legislation passed by the dáil. Then they should close the seanad. It is inherently undemocratic as its members are not representative of all of the electorate. They are appointed by the NUI, and the government of the day.
We have too many government debating shops for 4 million people.
Spot on. The public have no say in who these people are so how can it be regarded as democratic in any sense.
Lamps
22-01-2009, 03:26 PM
Last Election.
"Vote for the Greens and we'll get Fianna Fail out of Government"
Waste of a vote.
I voted for Dan Boyle.
To be fair they never explicitly said that, though they did clearly intimate that they would rather be in with FG and Labour.
I feel let down by them going in with FF and they are now happy partners in possibly the worst administration the country has ever seen. They have the opportunity now to go in with FG and Labour and ditch FF, but they seem to have grown to used to the ring of power and can't release it.
I'm done with the greens, they are going to be wiped out in the next election.
Actin The Sham
22-01-2009, 03:45 PM
To be fair they never explicitly said that, though they did clearly intimate that they would rather be in with FG and Labour.
I feel let down by them going in with FF and they are now happy partners in possibly the worst administration the country has ever seen. They have the opportunity now to go in with FG and Labour and ditch FF, but they seem to have grown to used to the ring of power and can't release it.
I'm done with the greens, they are going to be wiped out in the next election.
I don't think that FF would allow them to ditch FF and go in with FG and Labour. I'd say that FF would dissolve the dáil and call a general election if the Greens were about to walk. And I think it is the fear of electoral meltdown that is keeping the Greens where they are.
Lamps
22-01-2009, 03:53 PM
I don't think that FF would allow them to ditch FF and go in with FG and Labour. I'd say that FF would dissolve the dáil and call a general election if the Greens were about to walk. And I think it is the fear of electoral meltdown that is keeping the Greens where they are.
Probably true, but so much for them being the party of principal then. I genuinely thought Gormley, Boyle, Ryan and Cuffe were serious operators before the last election.
Its disheartening to say the least that they could so happily back the disaster that is the current FF setup.
DanDan
26-01-2009, 12:51 AM
Hi Dan, Not a question but a suggestion, addressing many of the issues raised in this thread, albeit indirectly.
There are a lot of empty buildings around, ex religious and so on.
They no longer have the imaginary value they had. It strikes me that they could be put to good use. Youth Clubs, remember them?
Teenagers would have somewhere to hang out, rather than in Petrol Stations! A few adults could have jobs, supervising. The buildings would be preserved and insured. I am sure there are many groups who would be only too willing to join in creating youth activities. Sticking to my own interest area:- Band Rehearsal Rooms could be included in the mix.
By using Electronic Drums, Pods and Bass Pods it is entirely possible to have 'silent' rehearsal rooms. No major structural investment needed.
In terms of Social Behaviour, development of latent talent, etc. etc. I reckon there would be net zero cost. Canada profits hugely from directly supporting it's Arts and it's Youth.
Best Regards, DD
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