Eddie O'Sullivan: destroyer of Arish Rugby

[POL]

Discuss.

How many years has he set the game back in Arland?

[liam2me]

i don't think we'll ever know for sure.

[Eoin]

Well he took it forward a few years and then sent it right back to where it was when he took over.

So at the end of the day, he hasn't actually set us back, he's just made absolutely no difference whatsoever.......... .

[Rebelred]

Rugby peaked in popularity last February. It's been all downhill since then.

[Eoin]

Also, the lads saying he's set us back years, obviously weren't watching rugby in the 90s when we were struggling to win a match at all most years.

At the end of the day, its a disgrace that he didn't win at least a championship with the sqaud we had, but its not as if Irish rugby is back to the dark ages.

[POL]

Also, the lads saying he's set us back years, obviously weren't watching rugby in the 90s when we were struggling to win a match at all most years.

.
whats changed? its 50 years since Arland won something worth taking about

[Eoin]

whats changed? its 50 years since Arland won something worth taking about

Thats my whole point, he hasn't actually had any effect long term on irish rugby.

He missed a glorious oppurtunity, but we're not in any worse situation than we would have been if anyone else had been in charge for the last 7 years.

[liam2me]

Also, the lads saying he's set us back years, obviously weren't watching rugby in the 90s when we were struggling to win a match at all most years.

At the end of the day, its a disgrace that he didn't win at least a championship with the sqaud we had, but its not as if Irish rugby is back to the dark ages.
thats bollocks, to say he hasn't set us back is uninformed shite. look at the SQUAD gatland had, now look at the bones of a team eddie has left. gatland had the idea that we needed at least 2 players for every position, looking to the future. eddie has taken that squad and not developed anyone that he didn't have to through injury/retirement. where are the back-up OH and props? gatland had ROG backing up humphs and horan behind corrigan, eddie has fuck all because he's pissed most of the young lads off (geraty <sp?> playing 1 game for england and being tied as a great example)

[liam2me]

Thats my whole point, he hasn't actually had any effect long term on irish rugby.

He missed a glorious oppurtunity, but we're not in any worse situation than we would have been if anyone else had been in charge for the last 7 years.
not worse? FFS where are the future generation of players? eddie has none. gatland did. comparing to 50 years ago is ridiculous. had another coach been in charge we would have had multiple grand slams by now IMO

[scrumpy]

Kearney, Fitzgerald, Heaslip, Buckley, Jennings are the future generation of players. ROG is a class player only produced by a country like Ireland once every 30 years

[RonnyB]

Well he took it forward a few years and then sent it right back to where it was when he took over.

So at the end of the day, he hasn't actually set us back, he's just made absolutely no difference whatsoever.......... .

This decade gave Arland the chance to annouce themselves as a force in world rugby considering the fact that this country produced players who were more than capable in comparison to their peers. However they won nothing of note & disguarded players who werent playing for Irish clubs/provinces (who now as it happens depend very much on foreign imports).

By winning a Grand Slam and a couple of other titles, the game could have thrived in the country seeing as it would get kids all over the country interested in rugby rather than the main opponents of GAA & soccer. Who knows the guy who would have being the next BOD is instead going to be the next Michael Donnelan.

[scrumpy]

thats bollocks, to say he hasn't set us back is uninformed shite. look at the SQUAD gatland had, now look at the bones of a team eddie has left. gatland had the idea that we needed at least 2 players for every position, looking to the future. eddie has taken that squad and not developed anyone that he didn't have to through injury/retirement. where are the back-up OH and props? gatland had ROG backing up humphs and horan behind corrigan, eddie has fuck all because he's pissed most of the young lads off (geraty <sp?> playing 1 game for england and being tied as a great example)

surely this is gerathy's own fault through his own naivity to believe he was good enough to be a regular starter for England when he'd obviously have more possibilties with Ireland

[Eoin]

not worse? FFS where are the future generation of players? eddie has none. gatland did. comparing to 50 years ago is ridiculous. had another coach been in charge we would have had multiple grand slams by now IMO

YEs we would ahve had multiple grand slams, I said as much if you read my posts. It was a massive missed oppurtunity, and a shocking job done by Eddie, but essentially the same players would still be there with a different coach in charge and looking forward we'd be in the same situation. The provinces are still healthy enough and will still produce players for the national team

There's a difference between wasting chances and setting the entire sport in the country back Liam.

[Rebel Yell]

whats changed? its 50 years since Arland won something worth taking about

Nonsense - Eddie won 3 triple crowns in four years... a monumental achievement which instilled pride in every man, woman and child in D4 , Rochestown and parts of the extended Pale...

and a modicum of respect in some of us, but tempered by a feeling of underachievement and what might have been ....

[POL]

Kearney, Fitzgerald, Heaslip, Buckley, Jennings are the future generation of players. ROG is a class player only produced by a country like Ireland once every 30 yearsahhahahahahha, if he was even approaching the quality or Eric Elwood he'd be doing very well for himself

[Eoin]

IMO, we're no worse or better off now than when Eddie took charge, its just we've had 6 years where instead of winning all round us like we should have, we won fuck all.

[POL]

Nonsense - Eddie won 3 triple crowns in four years... a monumental achievement which instilled pride in every man, woman and child in D4 , Rochestown and parts of the extended Pale...

and a modicum of respect in some of us, but tempered by a feeling of underachievement and what might have been ....what the fock is a triple crown again, a pat on the back for getting beaten by france! what would roy keane think about this? ffs, there wasn't even a trophy for this mockery untill a few years ago, begone pseudo jock

[Eoin]

Nonsense - Eddie won 3 triple crowns in four years... a monumental achievement which instilled pride in every man, woman and child in D4 , Rochestown and parts of the extended Pale...

and a modicum of respect in some of us, but tempered by a feeling of underachievement and what might have been ....

Triple Crowns count for little if they're not included in a championship win RY.

[HappyMonday83]

The golden generations should be finished within 3 seasons. Then it's back to the glory days of heroic defeats and wooden spoons.

[Eoin]

The golden generations should be finished within 3 seasons. Then it's back to the glory days of heroic defeats and wooden spoons.

There's plenty of decent young players coming through. Irish Rugby has a long way to fall before we're as bad as we were in the 90s.

With a decent coach in charge, we have every chance of winning a grand slam in the next 5-10 years.

Plus with any luck, the big upturn in numbers of young lads taking up the game in the last 5 years, we're bound to unearth plenty of quality.

Once the IRFU don't pull an FAI and piss all that away, then Irish rugby should be in a fairly robust condition for the foreseeable future. The way they're carrying on at the moment though, thats a distinct possibility.

[HappyMonday83]

There's plenty of decent young players coming through. Irish Rugby has a long way to fall before we're as bad as we were in the 90s.

With a decent coach in charge, we have every chance of winning a grand slam in the next 5-10 years.

Plus with any luck, the big upturn in numbers of young lads taking up the game in the last 5 years, we're bound to unearth plenty of quality.

Once the IRFU don't pull an FAI and piss all that away, then Irish rugby should be in a fairly robust condition for the foreseeable future. The way they're carrying on at the moment though, thats a distinct possibility.

The IRFU is an old boys club and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Ireland gets a crop of good players every 20 years so we'll be waiting a while for the likes of BOD to come around again.

[Eoin]

The IRFU is an old boys club and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Ireland gets a crop of good players every 20 years so we'll be waiting a while for the likes of BOD to come around again.

You're not wrong there, but I still think that we've come too far for anyone to let it slip back to the lows of the mid 90s. We might not have another BOD coming through, but lads like Fitzgerald, Kearney are young and exciting, and there's guys like Keith Earls at Munster with great potential as well who should hopefully break into the senior ranks in the next few years.

[juice85]

O'Sullivan should have gone after the world cup..we should have had a fresh face to change things around for the 6N. instead we had to watch boring defence minded rugby compared to the free flowing rugby produced by wales...we have the players to produce that type of rugby too...we just need the right coach to help the team.

[HappyMonday83]

O'Sullivan should have gone after the world cup..we should have had a fresh face to change things around for the 6N. instead we had to watch boring defence minded rugby compared to the free flowing rugby produced by wales...we have the players to produce that type of rugby too...we just need the right coach to help the team.

Sully should have gone after last years 6 nations.

[juice85]

With the world cup around the corner that wasn't an option really.
The question is who do we replace him with??????

[Eoin]

Sully should have gone after last years 6 nations.

Realistically, he should have gone after the performance in the 2005 6 nations.

That was the turning point in his irish career, its been all downhill since then.

[norrie rugger head]

Sully should have gone after last years 6 nations.


Never hapenning in a World Cup year.

Irish rugby has stagnated under Sullivan, it has not gone backwards

[liam2me]

Never hapenning in a World Cup year.

Irish rugby has stagnated under Sullivan, it has not gone backwards
wrong, it has gone backwards, we had a SQUAD of 1st class players now we barely have a man for each position. if thats not backwards then someone tell me what is?

[Coogee]

thats bollocks, to say he hasn't set us back is uninformed shite. look at the SQUAD gatland had, now look at the bones of a team eddie has left. gatland had the idea that we needed at least 2 players for every position, looking to the future. eddie has taken that squad and not developed anyone that he didn't have to through injury/retirement. where are the back-up OH and props? gatland had ROG backing up humphs and horan behind corrigan, eddie has fuck all because he's pissed most of the young lads off (geraty <sp?> playing 1 game for england and being tied as a great example)

Gatland was a joke as irish (13 man lineout against argentina, dropping 4-5 key players to throw away a grand slam against the scots in 2001) although he has improved greatly as a coach.

Yes its true that gatland had rog/humph but it is hardly eddies fault that humph retired...there are no other options coming through...wallace/staunton/dunne/ etc not up to it and Geraghty was always going to declare for England...how is that eddies fault!!!!

Please tell me the 2 players for every position that gatland had at his disposal because i seem to remember very average players like emmett byrne, trevor brennan, guy easterby etc getting caps under gatland!!!

The reality is that irish rugby has limited resources....christ it not like there are 10 players waiting in the wings that are up to international standard...we dont have the same luxury as the kiwis or french....

Yes eddie o sullivan was a conservative coach and could have took more risk in hindsight but to suggest that he has set irish rugby back is crazy and proves that you dont really know what you are talking about....in the 90s we couldnt win a game for fuck sake and we had some pretty handy players back then too!!!!

[Coogee]

how can people on here say that we would have won multiple grand slams if we had a different coach....the england team that won the world cup in 2003 which was a much better team than ireland of the last 3-4 years only won one grand slam....France have won a couple of grand slams ove rthe last few years as they had a better starting xv than us and a far superior extended squad to deal with injuries....

Liam can you please enlighten us with gatlands squad of 30 international class players of 2000-2001 comparred with the current 30 man squad at our disposal.

The development of young talent is down to the provinces and underage structure more so than the national coach. A national coach can only take the most promising of these young players and try to mould them into international class players.

I think Ireland problem is that we just dont have enough guys coming through the ranks compared to the likes or england, France, New zealand

[cantankerous bastard]

how can people on here say that we would have won multiple grand slams if we had a different coach....the england team that won the world cup in 2003 which was a much better team than ireland of the last 3-4 years only won one grand slam....France have won a couple of grand slams ove rthe last few years as they had a better starting xv than us and a far superior extended squad to deal with injuries....

Liam can you please enlighten us with gatlands squad of 30 international class players of 2000-2001 comparred with the current 30 man squad at our disposal.

The development of young talent is down to the provinces and underage structure more so than the national coach. A national coach can only take the most promising of these young players and try to mould them into international class players.

I think Ireland problem is that we just dont have enough guys coming through the ranks compared to the likes or england, France, New zealand

This is true to an extent, but overlooks one of Eddie's greatest failings, not all our good players are in the provinces.

We need to bring those who play elsewhere into the fold, we are too small to afford otherwise.

Murphy has been playing out of his skin lately, and Reddan has finally been given a chance after leaving munster where he couldnt get one.

[Eoin]

wrong, it has gone backwards, we had a SQUAD of 1st class players now we barely have a man for each position. if thats not backwards then someone tell me what is?

Its gone backwards since 05 Liam, but it came forward a hell of a lot in the 3 or 4 years before that. We still have some great players. Its not eddies fault that the provinces haven't produced loads of decent half backs or front row players in his time in charge.

He hasn't done well enough with what he had, but he can't manufacture players like BOD and ROG on his own either. You're blaming him for everything thats wrong with Irish rugby Liam, which is ludicrous.

[Coogee]

This is true to an extent, but overlooks one of Eddie's greatest failings, not all our good players are in the provinces.

We need to bring those who play elsewhere into the fold, we are too small to afford otherwise.

Murphy has been playing out of his skin lately, and Reddan has finally been given a chance after leaving munster where he couldnt get one.

i agree that if you are playing in England or France and are good enough you should be picked...in fairness Murphy was capped back in 2000...i saw reddan for Munster and he wasnt up to it but went to England and improved and is now getting his chance...

I dont believe in this anti overseas players thing...the fact is that the likes or Casey and Brennan were not as good as POC,DOC,MOK,MOD,Leo etc...

Being overseas didnt stop Bishop,the easterbys, maggs, wood,Duffy etc getting games...bottom line is that if your playing in the premiership and good enough you will get picked for Ireland

[Rebel Yell]

Mitchell for Ireland coach...leave Declan alone...he has a few more Heineken cup peaks to scale...

[Lee Bushwacker]

:(
O Sullivan under-achieved with a talented squad. The triple-crowns were small beer. We should have won a couple of championships or even grand slams! :-|

[cantankerous bastard]

i agree that if you are playing in England or France and are good enough you should be picked...in fairness Murphy was capped back in 2000...i saw reddan for Munster and he wasnt up to it but went to England and improved and is now getting his chance...

I dont believe in this anti overseas players thing...the fact is that the likes or Casey and Brennan were not as good as POC,DOC,MOK,MOD,Leo etc...

Being overseas didnt stop Bishop,the easterbys, maggs, wood,Duffy etc getting games...bottom line is that if your playing in the premiership and good enough you will get picked for Ireland
Murphy has been playing better than girv the swerve for a while, he wasn't getting picked because eddie had a chip on his shoulder about him missing tackles against the french a year ago.

[raZor]

Bob Casey was one of the best locks in NH, last season and the one before, he warrantd a shout before DOC, Cullen.

Obviously he warranted it before O'kelly and McCullough, but that goes withou saying.

[VzN]

I should be the coach - I'd be immense.

[Coogee]

Bob Casey was one of the best locks in NH, last season and the one before, he warrantd a shout before DOC, Cullen.

Obviously he warranted it before O'kelly and McCullough, but that goes withou saying.

Thats rubbish...Casey is a good Premiership player and to suggest he is better tha DOC, who has been playing Heineken cup rugby for 6/7 years and who was picked for a lions tour, is crazy.....As for Cullen he was vice captain of Leicester last year and is a better player than Casey....O Kelly was a better player than Casey up to 2 years ago and in fairness McCullough got a cap or two form the bench and wasnt good enough kinda like Casey 8 years ago....The Fact is that for the last 5-6 years POC, MOK & DOC were the 3 best locks available and CUllen and MOD were the best back ups available....If Casey was good enough he'd be playing ...simple as

[Coogee]

Murphy has been playing better than girv the swerve for a while, he wasn't getting picked because eddie had a chip on his shoulder about him missing tackles against the french a year ago.

in fairness you made my point there...Murphy has'nt been picked for Irleand because he is a bit flaky in defence and not becasue he is being ignored for playing in England.

Murhy is a very talented player but has'nt really performed for Ireland in the last few years but who knows under a new coach we might see the 2002-2003 vintage on show again...

In fairness to Dempsey he has been playing the best Rugby of his Leinster and Ireland Career in the last 2-3 years

[raZor]

Thats rubbish...Casey is a good Premiership player and to suggest he is better tha DOC, who has been playing Heineken cup rugby for 6/7 years and who was picked for a lions tour, is crazy.....As for Cullen he was vice captain of Leicester last year and is a better player than Casey....O Kelly was a better player than Casey up to 2 years ago and in fairness McCullough got a cap or two form the bench and wasnt good enough kinda like Casey 8 years ago....The Fact is that for the last 5-6 years POC, MOK & DOC were the 3 best locks available and CUllen and MOD were the best back ups available....If Casey was good enough he'd be playing ...simple as

Do you really think thats true? Nothing to do with EOS's policy then?
I didnt say he is better, I said he was on better form for two seasons or o, when DOC was having a terrible run. Open your eyes this is DOC's first good season since before the Lions tour and he was terrible on that tour.

Being a Lion under Woodward means nothing it was the biggest squad ever assembled even Big Mal got there. O'Kelly is having a better season than the last six or seven seasons together.

And comparing McCullough to him, Casey got dropped after the fiasco in Twickenham in 2000, which was hardly his fault, think it was only his second or third cap at the time.

They guy has been the best (in the top 3 at least) lineout winner and stealer in the Premiership, a fact which went unnoticed by management.

[Coogee]

Do you really think thats true? Nothing to do with EOS's policy then?
I didnt say he is better, I said he was on better form for two seasons or o, when DOC was having a terrible run. Open your eyes this is DOC's first good season since before the Lions tour and he was terrible on that tour.

Being a Lion under Woodward means nothing it was the biggest squad ever assembled even Big Mal got there. O'Kelly is having a better season than the last six or seven seasons together.

And comparing McCullough to him, Casey got dropped after the fiasco in Twickenham in 2000, which was hardly his fault, think it was only his second or third cap at the time.

They guy has been the best (in the top 3 at least) lineout winner and stealer in the Premiership, a fact which went unnoticed by management.

casey and kennedy together have the best lineout stats in the premiership over the last two years...i went to see London Irish playing a few times while living in London and i just dont think Casey is a good as the other 4-5 locks i have mentioned....alot more to second row than just catching lineouts...im sure EOS and the irish selectors had their reasons for not selecting Casey and those reasons would be based on his ability and not because he doesnt play in Ireland

[Actin The Sham]

what the fock is a triple crown again, a pat on the back for getting beaten by france! what would roy keane think about this? ffs, there wasn't even a trophy for this mockery untill a few years ago, begone pseudo jock



Post of the focking month!

[Proinsias]

I'm not going to bother reading much of this thread but Bob Casey is a handy player who, while he's done well in what was, for most of the last decade, a rubbish London Irish team, isn't so much better than the Irish based players to merit selection from my watching of him. Second row hasn't been a problem for Ireland for a while.

If there are two players of similar ability, the Ireland based player should get selected every time. It's an excellent policy that has strengthened the domestic game no end. Do you think, for example, Mick O'Driscoll would have come back to Munster without it?
Is Tommy Bowe making a mistake in his international career by moving abroad? Probably.

[Coogee]

I'm not going to bother reading much of this thread but Bob Casey is a handy player who, while he's done well in what was, for most of the last decade, a rubbish London Irish team, isn't so much better than the Irish based players to merit selection from my watching of him. Second row hasn't been a problem for Ireland for a while.

If there are two players of similar ability, the Ireland based player should get selected every time. It's an excellent policy that has strengthened the domestic game no end. Do you think, for example, Mick O'Driscoll would have come back to Munster without it?
Is Tommy Bowe making a mistake in his international career by moving abroad? Probably.

i think bowe will still get picked if good enough....strange that so many players leaving ulster....playing outside Ireland didnt do Simon easterby any harm over the last 7 years in a position where we have always had plenty of talent

[EDDIEB]

Post of the focking month!

You can win a triple crown by beating England,Scotland and Wales before you even play France.

[Coogee]

You can win a triple crown by beating England,Scotland and Wales before you even play France.

really!!!!...and your point is?

[EDDIEB]

really!!!!...and your point is?

Its still an achievement in itself to beat the home nations and not to be sniffed at however a poor recompence for not winning a championship or Grand Slam - Next year with France & England at home and a new coach you would never know ?

Wales will not be winning a championship or Grand Slam next season.

[Rebel Yell]

Its still an achievement in itself to beat the home nations and not to be sniffed at however a poor recompence for not winning a championship or Grand Slam - Next year with France & England at home and a new coach you would never know ?

Wales will not be winning a championship or Grand Slam next season.

True enough...who knows what will happen next season - no really outstanding side in Europe at the moment so next season will be interesting...lets see who takes over Eddie's job first before we start getting overly optimistic...

[Chuck Norri]

Wales will not be winning a championship or Grand Slam next season.

What makes you say that?

[EDDIEB]

What makes you say that?

England/France & Ireland will be improved by then + there is also a hangover from the W.C.

[raZor]

What makes you say that?

I'd imagine alot will have to do with France having a stable sqaud, next time round, Italy will be under the coaching of Mallet for a year (could be a tricky away one) and England have blooded alot of youth in key positions like Haskell and Cipriani.