Dear Prudence

[Lamps]

Dec 2006

FACTS, as we know them. Shelbourne, the country's most successful club over the past five years, spend the year going from one financial jumble to another. Players have problems getting paid on a few occasions, money comes in late, three separate winding-up orders are petitioned. Chairman Ollie Byrne spends the year putting out fires. Somehow the players have it in them to win the league. A couple of weeks later, with more wages unpaid, paid late or paid in half, the manager Pat Fenlon resigns and moves to Derry City. Reports suggest a number of players, browned off with the irregular wages, are next to leave and that the club is losing serious money. Questions range from simple whys and hows to general wonderings whether Irish football can ever sustain itself.

First off, in speaking to clubs during the week, the Tribune drew a few wry chuckles with suggestions of profit potential right now. It's a tough ask getting by on the sort of turnover the clubs are generating.

So here's a little taster of how it works.

Clubs take in anything from 20 per cent upwards of their turnover from gate receipts and let's not be beating around any bushes about the crowds going to games right now. Average attendances are down and damn poor across the board . . . even the top clubs drawing big numbers for title-showdown type games struggle when the others teams come to town.

Cork City and Derry City both came in at around the 3,000 mark while they were pushing 5,000 for the top-three clashes; Shelbourne barely got above half that, even on a title run. Of the others, Longford fell into three-figure crowds for the first time in the top division and Waterford couldn't fill a stand that holds just over a thousand people.

If we're making comparisons with other leagues, well it's not a pretty sight. Official and verified attendance figures should be made public but taking the figures estimated by the clubs, the top 14 together were averaging around the 1500 mark.

In England, that's Conference level. In Scotland it's less than division one level.

Overall it's well down the European table and when gate receipts are such an integral part of a company's finances, low gates spell trouble. Most clubs came in under their budgeted takings figure and had trouble accordingly . . . one of Shelbourne's missed revenue payments came during a prolonged period without a home game. Longford's club secretary Frank Murtagh spoke of the problems when their season was perceived to be over and the subsequent fall off in numbers; most others mentioned the unreliability of the support and the false promise a little success can bring.

Take a side who're getting the average 1500 people in every couple of weeks (do the math . . . ticket prices are 15 tops) and you're talking just over 20,000 takings, minus matchday expenses. When there are talks of wage bills for players alone going over (well over in some cases) 40,000 weekly, it's easy to see where and how quickly matters can get out of hand. It's thought to be exactly what's happened at Shelbourne, with suggestions that money has been drawn down from the sale of Tolka Park to pay expenses. As a point of interest, Cork City chairman Brian Lennox puts the club's wage budget at around 1.2m and they'd be seen as one of the more prudent spenders on salaries.

As bugbears go, wages are right up there for the clubs themselves. Many clubs feel that wage rates are disproportionate to their value. One club director explained: "As a business, too much of our turnover is going into wages. It means that we've nothing left over to put into improving the club itself, be it the stadium or the facilities or whatever else that's needed." A couple expressed worries about paying salaries now that gate receipts won't be coming in for a few months. More than one club relied on directors dipping into their own pockets or the contribution of fans to keep things ticking over throughout the season. More than one club are still heavily reliant on fundraising, lotto draws and such like.

Thing is, other income streams aren't exactly overflowing either. TV money basically works out at 5,000 every time you host a game while in other leagues, broadcasting revenue represents a fair block of the cash coming in. Just as a comparison again, the new Setanta deal in Scotland nets PremierLeague clubs about £1.1m a year each while Brian Lennox reckons Cork City got about 80,000 last season. In Norway, a country of 4.5m people, a deal worth 127m over four seasons was announced last year for domestic football - this isn't meant as a criticism of the Irish TV deal by the way, just as a marker for what we're competing against.

Sponsorship and advertising haven't been grasped with both arms by clubs but they're at least extending hands to the idea of it. More and more packages are being offered to sponsor match balls, jerseys, individual players and corporate tickets. Almost every club talks about the kind of kick this extra investment would bring. They mention, to a club, the effort needed to make the domestic soccer experience more of an occasion that's enjoyable rather than a chore, about the need to attract businesses by improving facilities.

And just so it's not all doom and gloom, clubs are copping on, there's good work being done and baby steps being taken.

A few examples. Galway Utd have gone about their business with a five-year plan, a committee for just about every aspect of the club you could think of, financial expertise at every turn, all glued together by general manager Nick Leeson. And it's all working like clockwork.

A profit (close to six figures according to chairman Nial O'Reilly) for the year; a nice 150% increase in crowds, averaging at about 1,200 but pushing 3,000 for endof-season games with Cobh and Dundalk; and a general sense of where they're at and going. Next Wednesday all season ticket holders will be called to see if they are interested in renewing, they organise five or six massive events a year to generate serious income and they've got a Plan A (premiership . . . budget 1.1m) and a Plan B (first division . . . budget 800,000) depending on tomorrow's decision on the make-up of the new top flight.

Drogheda United are moving onto a new level with the financial backing of three directors, who've put well over 1m into the club, and the progressive thinking of real business. General manager Ophir Zardok isn't thinking of actual profit for another few years but with plans for a spanking new stadium that'll drag them towards the 4,000 mark on attendance over a couple of years (they're about 2,000 at the moment). A lot of work is done in the community and with their best year ever for selling sponsorship packages gone by, there's plenty to be excited about. Cork City have new investors in the pipeline and Brian Lennox speaks of improving the coaching structures and underage set-up, as well as the stadium. Derry City are in the planning stages of doing up the Brandywell.

And Shamrock Rovers know the score better than most about keeping your house in order, or the perils of not doing so. John Byrne, director, doesn't need hours to explain how they went about tightening the purse strings. "It's not rocket science what we've done. We take a look at how much money we've got, use fairly conservative estimates for attendances and work from there. No spending money we don't have or unrealistic targets."

It might not be sexy to talk of business plans and playing safe but there've been so many years of crisis and turmoil, it may be just time to settle down a tad. If there's anything to be learned from the Shelbourne story, it's that success can be bought, but at a price. At a natural crossroads, it's time to decide which direction is worth pursuing.

[de mange]

right lamps

im not going to get into another long debate because i dont have time but a couple of points re that article- most of them i had already raised in the other thread but you ignored them all

- its by and large a good article, but its a year old. prize money has increased significantly most notably the setanta cup at 350k. next year setanta will be showing around 20 games(i think) live= more tv money.

- nobody on here, including myself ever said LOI is profitable, in fact the dogs on the street know its perilous. this is now changing and its seems a few guys are willing to take a chance with city, pats and drogs

- shels are the worst example you could possibly have picked to illustrate LOI finances, rookie mistake. the were run by ollie byrne a convicted criminal and have very low gates (about half of cities). shels sold their lease on tolka to a consortium of developers and the move bas backed by DCC. shels were forwarded large advances on the sale and blew it by signing every decent player in the league that became available on silly wages. they had a huge squad. strangely enough it all went tits up and they got what they deserved

- city have always spent within our means.. most frustratingly, this has meant watching the league winning squad sold off.

- arkaga are now at the helm at city and have a long term plan based on more than just soccer. the stadium planned will host concerts etc.. they bought the club post genesis and have sanctioned 5 new signings. i doubt very much that they are a mercenary willing to lose money hand over fist considering they are an english investment vehicle

- georgie is on big money at city because he will increase the gate at the cross and deliver another title :)

[Roman Abramovich]

the day cork city move out of turners cross is the day ill move back supporting cork city.

i still dont see that day coming anytime soon.

[de mange]

the day cork city move out of turners cross is the day ill move back supporting cork city.

i still dont see that day coming anytime soon.

ahh ya never know naff, they were probably ahead of themselves when they moved to bishoptown

arkagas plans sounds pretty decent actually, they are looking at a 20k seater multi functional stadium at black ash to house soccer and whatever other events come along.. personally i cant see the day when 20 thousand people want to see city because irish people dont support their own league. on the other hand my old man is always on about huge attendances in flower lodge for hibs and celtic games so its not impossible.. look at munster for instance or dog racing in ireland

[TonyCochrane]

ahh ya never know naff, they were probably ahead of themselves when they moved to bishoptown

arkagas plans sounds pretty decent actually, they are looking at a 20k seater multi functional stadium at black ash to house soccer and whatever other events come along.. personally i cant see the day when 20 thousand people want to see city because irish people dont support their own league. on the other hand my old man is always on about huge attendances in flower lodge for hibs and celtic games so its not impossible.. look at munster for instance or dog racing in ireland

Not impossible, but if there is a superior product available to view on one of your 900 channels then most people won't be too bothered; they would rather save up for the next trip to Old Trafford or wherever.


Saying that, I wish it wasn't so. But it is.

[STEVIEG]

Not impossible, but if there is a superior product available to view on one of your 900 channels then most people won't be too bothered; they would rather save up for the next trip to Old Trafford or wherever.


Saying that, I wish it wasn't so. But it is.

I would argue that most people who actually travel abroad to go matches will also travel locally to support teams here (It's often made out that the prem and other sports are competition to City but i know loads of match going City fans who support other teams and sports, City is the priority every Friday though)

The people to lazy to move their asses from in front of the TV on a Friday night really don't deserve to see proper football

a lot of them have never travelled to see their so-called Premiership or la Liga team of choice either, and a lot of them are the bar-stool pub experts come the Champions League or World Cup finals or All ireland or Heineken Cup finals or whatever

The argument for staying away from Turners Cross, especially on Fridays, is much weaker these days, with the advent of Friday football, better facilities, better domestic football etc etc

I mean, I've had a few Fridays off lately and got stuck at home bored off my tits

has anyone tried watching TV at about 9pm on a Friday!??!

It's shocking, and i have about 900 channels too!



Dear Prudence was a great song btw!:)

[TonyCochrane]

I would argue that most people who actually travel abroad to go matches will also travel locally to support teams here (It's often made out that the prem and other sports are competition to City but i know loads of match going City fans who support other teams and sports, City is the priority every Friday though)

The people to lazy to move their asses from in front of the TV on a Friday night really don't deserve to see proper football

a lot of them have never travelled to see their so-called Premiership or la Liga team of choice either, and a lot of them are the bar-stool pub experts come the Champions League or World Cup finals or All ireland or Heineken Cup finals or whatever

The argument for staying away from Turners Cross, especially on Fridays, is much weaker these days, with the advent of Friday football, better facilities, better domestic football etc etc

I mean, I've had a few Fridays off lately and got stuck at home bored off my tits

has anyone tried watching TV at about 9pm on a Friday!??!

It's shocking, and i have about 900 channels too!



Dear Prudence was a great song btw!:)

Stevie, won't you come out to play?

My point was referring specifically to soccer. I agree somewhat in that people travelling to Old Trafford or Anfield might be more inclined to travel to watch Cork play in Thurles or Munster play in France but this is not, in my opinion, the same thing as going down to the Cross to watch City play Longford. City, for all their good points, do not come anywhere close to matching the standard seen regularly on TV by the average soccer fan. Leaving aside the experience of attending a live game I do not think that the fare offered at the Cross is on a similar level to watching Cork in the hurling or football where, on occasion, they can really hit the heights and thrill the spectator. Munster too, operate at a higher level and I can see why people are anxious to hitch a ride on that bandwagon.

[STEVIEG]

Stevie, won't you come out to play?

My point was referring specifically to soccer. I agree somewhat in that people travelling to Old Trafford or Anfield might be more inclined to travel to watch Cork play in Thurles or Munster play in France but this is not, in my opinion, the same thing as going down to the Cross to watch City play Longford. City, for all their good points, do not come anywhere close to matching the standard seen regularly on TV by the average soccer fan. Leaving aside the experience of attending a live game I do not think that the fare offered at the Cross is on a similar level to watching Cork in the hurling or football where, on occasion, they can really hit the heights and thrill the spectator. Munster too, operate at a higher level and I can see why people are anxious to hitch a ride on that bandwagon.

Fair enough, sticking to soccer i would argue that, while obviously the Ronaldos of the World are gonna be on a higher level, the standard down in our local ground ain't to bad in relative terms

There are many Liverpool fans who will tell ya that it hasn't been to much this season at Anfield, and i remember a time where heading to the Flower Lodge to see City was often more rewarding for me than heading over to OT!

The only thing that i find annoying, and i'm with the hardcore City faithful on this one, is that some are too quick to draw their views on Eircom footy on some nil-all draw they saw on RTE or a crap match they went to back in 93

The local angle and the fact that there are now generations growing up with City augers well for the future, as i've often said it was different for someone like me, who had been to Old Trafford about five times before City was formed in 1984 and already had that bug

This season is the first season where i will be able to go to over 80% of the home games due to a better work schedule on Fridays, and i can't wait!

[steve sanders]

good squad this time out. the standard should be high enough at the cross, but if things aren't working out, matthews will resort to hoofing tactics.

ugly.

[TonyCochrane]

Fair enough, sticking to soccer i would argue that, while obviously the Ronaldos of the World are gonna be on a higher level, the standard down in our local ground ain't to bad in relative terms

There are many Liverpool fans who will tell ya that it hasn't been to much this season at Anfield,and i remember a time where heading to the Flower Lodge to see City was often more rewarding for me than heading over to OT!

The only thing that i find annoying, and i'm with the hardcore City faithful on this one, is that some are too quick to draw their views on Eircom footy on some nil-all draw they saw on RTE or a crap match they went to back in 93

The local angle and the fact that there are now generations growing up with City augers well for the future, as i've often said it was different for someone like me, who had been to Old Trafford about five times before City was formed in 1984 and already had that bug

This season is the first season where i will be able to go to over 80% of the home games due to a better work schedule on Fridays, and i can't wait!

I agree with you, the standard is not too bad in relative terms. That doesn't mean it is good or attractive to watch.

I happen to think that the standard can be quite good but my point is that it has to better than "quite good" or "not too bad for the Eircom League" if attendance is to rise at Eircom League grounds given that if someone wants to watch Ronaldo or Ronaldinho or whoever strut their stuff all they have to do is tune in or go online. I think I am safe in saying that one of the main reasons thousands of people used to turn out to watch Hibs and Celtic back in the mists of time is because they were not exactly overwhelmed by options for watching sport, let alone live sport. City are quite a young club and I think that they suffer somewhat from this. There is a gap between the end of the glory years down at Flower Lodge and City getting going in 1984. Kids of a certain age are not brought to the Cross because their fathers never went because they did not have the opportunity and gave their allegiance to other, usually foreign clubs.

I would love to see a healthy Eircom League with good attendance all round but I cannot see Cork City coming anywhere close to filling a 20,000 seater stadium. I know no one has suggested that they would but I just think that harking back to the days of Flower Lodge, well before my time by the way, is not too helpful. It is grand to have a discussion about it on here but City/Arkaga would be doing themselves no favours if they think that the situation thirty years ago is a reliable barometer for matters on the ground here today.

[STEVIEG]

I agree with you, the standard is not too bad in relative terms. That doesn't mean it is good or attractive to watch.

I happen to think that the standard can be quite good but my point is that it has to better than "quite good" or "not too bad for the Eircom League" if attendance is to rise at Eircom League grounds given that if someone wants to watch Ronaldo or Ronaldinho or whoever strut their stuff all they have to do is tune in or go online. I think I am safe in saying that one of the main reasons thousands of people used to turn out to watch Hibs and Celtic back in the mists of time is because they were not exactly overwhelmed by options for watching sport, let alone live sport. City are quite a young club and I think that they suffer somewhat from this. There is a gap between the end of the glory years down at Flower Lodge and City getting going in 1984. Kids of a certain age are not brought to the Cross because their fathers never went because they did not have the opportunity and gave their allegiance to other, usually foreign clubs.

I would love to see a healthy Eircom League with good attendance all round but I cannot see Cork City coming anywhere close to filling a 20,000 seater stadium. I know no one has suggested that they would but I just think that harking back to the days of Flower Lodge, well before my time by the way, is not too helpful. It is grand to have a discussion about it on here but City/Arkaga would be doing themselves no favours if they think that the situation thirty years ago is a reliable barometer for matters on the ground here today.

In a town as big as ours, with a massive catchment area, i think they are right to be ambitious though

In places like Manchester some of the local crowd, which contrary to popular opinion, is the core of United support, are being priced out of supporting the club they love

It is still relatively expensive here but compared to drinking/cinema/food etc, it compares well

As regards quality Ronaldo and co are exceptional

There are people paying 100 sterling to see a Chelsea team who have often been boring beyond belief in the last few years, United and Arsenal are the two best and some other clubs are good too, but look at Newcastle and King Kev, they are not excatly turning on the style either (early days)

In Cork i think it is good quality overall, i hope Matthews plays positive, with the players he has he has no excuses

[STEVIEG]

There is a gap between the end of the glory years down at Flower Lodge and City getting going in 1984. Kids of a certain age are not brought to the Cross because their fathers never went because they did not have the opportunity and gave their allegiance to other, usually foreign clubs.



You touch on a good point here
It also relates closely to the atmosphere argument that is currently big in Engalnd

In the 1970s the average age of footy supporters at Old Trafford was late teens, now it is early 40's
many different and more affluent people too

Same accross England

doesn't take a genius to work out that the atmosphere on some games suffers

In Cork, we have a very young supporter base and it is one of the reasons why Cork City FC have a great atmopshere, even when it is not that busy

Getting more loyalty is the key

Unfortunately, like any team, they need to get a bandwagon thing going aswell (the last league winning run-in saw unreal attendances)

The core is the key though, and they are going every week

[TonyCochrane]

In a town as big as ours, with a massive catchment area, i think they are right to be ambitious though

In places like Manchester some of the local crowd, which contrary to popular opinion, is the core of United support, are being priced out of supporting the club they love

It is still relatively expensive here but compared to drinking/cinema/food etc, it compares well

As regards quality Ronaldo and co are exceptional

There are people paying 100 sterling to see a Chelsea team who have often been boring beyond belief in the last few years, United and Arsenal are the two best and some other clubs are good too, but look at Newcastle and King Kev, they are not excatly turning on the style either (early days)

In Cork i think it is good quality overall, i hope Matthews plays positive, with the players he has he has no excuses

Nothing wrong with ambition alright.

We could set up some kind of an exchange programme maybe. Cork lads go to Old Trafford to watch Man U and the Manchester locals can come to Leeside to see soccer as it should be, raw and muddy.

Don't think I haven't noticed you popping off at Liverpool and Chelsea while bigging up the Red Devils in this thread either.

[STEVIEG]

Nothing wrong with ambition alright.

We could set up some kind of an exchange programme maybe. Cork lads go to Old Trafford to watch Man U and the Manchester locals can come to Leeside to see soccer as it should be, raw and muddy.

Don't think I haven't noticed you popping off at Liverpool and Chelsea while bigging up the Red Devils in this thread either.

They can do that in Manchester too if they wish greater Manchester is large


Chelsea have improved a bit, as have Liverpool (against poor teams at least), but they are not that attractive compared to the top two in the league

It's not a dig, it's a fact
Where have i been bigging up the Red Devils, i have criticised aspects of the club here?

[MonTheHoops]

Genuine question.

Do you think City would have more of a turnout if they changed their name to Cork?

[TonyCochrane]

Genuine question.

Do you think City would have more of a turnout if they changed their name to Cork?

Why not go the whole hog and change it to Barcelona?

[STEVIEG]

Genuine question.

Do you think City would have more of a turnout if they changed their name to Cork?

It's a good question

I think the club did some good recruiting in the county last year and ran busses and stuff but it's hard to say really

It's defo something they are aware of, i would think

In my own line of work on radio i get loads of texts from City fans about matches and stuff, and i'm always suprised by how many are from West Cork and North Cork and Youghal and places

Sometimes the laziest live the closest by!

[STEVIEG]

Why not go the whole hog and change it to Barcelona?

Borussia Mönchengladbach is catchy:)

[TonyCochrane]

Genuine question.

Do you think City would have more of a turnout if they changed their name to Cork?

I saw this and thought to myself genuine question my ass. On mature reflection I see where you're coming from. I have no idea really. I wouldn't think so.

[Roman Abramovich]

to be honest if marketed right i would near guarantee that they would get 20,000. my ideas for filling a 20,000 seater stadium i told to lennox years ago and he said i was bang on.

you have to make the match an event. 90mins should be a small bit of the experience. proof of this type of scheme working is the cork grey hound track. ive been there ten times. i hate dog racing, know nothing about it, to be honest cant stand it. but a night at the dogs is fuckin top notch crack.

and bandwagons catch on.

to fill a 20,000 seater stadium you gotta have 10,000 going for the match and 10,000 going for the night out. put a club there, pubs, entertainment before/after. have a family section. proper transport in and out. basically make the 90mins just another part to a friday night at the match.

there was a time where i would choose a cork city match in turnerscross & bishopstown ahead of a trip to london. And i would revert to that way if only they done things right. starting by getting out of turners cross.

[MonTheHoops]

I saw this and thought to myself genuine question my ass. On mature reflection I see where you're coming from. I have no idea really. I wouldn't think so.

It was a 100% genuine question.

When I was growing up, Cork City was a team people in the city supported, no different to the rest of the county than Cobh Ramblers. It was only when I went to college that I started going along to games.

It might make no difference at all, but it's not a huge change and it's hardly going to lose you supporters.


EDIT: Stevie, you might not think this makes much sense, but whenever I travelled with friends from home to games we always found parking a problem. Not only that, but your average Joe from North, South, East or West Cork won't know their way around Turner's Cross. It's second nature to anyone brought up in the city, not so much those of us from outside it.

[Kimeartimmyboy]

to be honest if marketed right i would near guarantee that they would get 20,000. my ideas for filling a 20,000 seater stadium i told to lennox years ago and he said i was bang on.

you have to make the match an event. 90mins should be a small bit of the experience. proof of this type of scheme working is the cork grey hound track. ive been there ten times. i hate dog racing, know nothing about it, to be honest cant stand it. but a night at the dogs is fuckin top notch crack.

and bandwagons catch on.

to fill a 20,000 seater stadium you gotta have 10,000 going for the match and 10,000 going for the night out. put a club there, pubs, entertainment before/after. have a family section. proper transport in and out. basically make the 90mins just another part to a friday night at the match.

there was a time where i would choose a cork city match in turnerscross & bishopstown ahead of a trip to london. And i would revert to that way if only they done things right. starting by getting out of turners cross.

some hardcore shit there bro
was a disciple back then.a fucken disgrace looking back.dont know how they got european football there

[STEVIEG]

EDIT: Stevie, you might not think this makes much sense, but whenever I travelled with friends from home to games we always found parking a problem. Not only that, but your average Joe from North, South, East or West Cork won't know their way around Turner's Cross. It's second nature to anyone brought up in the city, not so much those of us from outside it.

I agree man

I live quite near and know that area really well and i find parking difficult at times too, it is gonna be more of an issue now with what i expect to be decent attendances for the new season-i'll probably have time to drive near enough to home myself though, after work which finishes at 7

[Rebel Yell]

The All seater 20,000 stadium can certainly work if it's part of the complex proposed....

I will use Swansea City and their new 20,000 Liberty stadium as an example - a perfect example for the purposes of comparison actually...

I lived in Swansea from 1994-98 - used to go along to games whenever I could in the old Vetch field (once voted around that time as the worst ground in the entire Football League) smack bang in the middle of the city with the inherent problems that parking etc bring on busy saturdays. Average crowds were about 3000 back then, and much lower for some games....this despite having Rugby as the only other major competing sport and the Welsh generally going through a lean patch in that as well at the time...and also even if the Swans were on a decent run, never really exceeded 5/6000...

Swansea has a population of about 200,000 and draws on a lot of support from West and south wales also...similar to Cork county for example...

2005 - Swansea move to the Liberty, outskirts of city on a huge old greenfield site but easily accessible from a number of major road links- shared with the Ospreys, and the Swans average crowd last season was over 14,000 which, despite the great League run they are on at the moment, they believe will certainly not fall back to the old levels given the excellent facilities they now offer to supporters and families...

Cork City could learn a lot from this model....(Arkaga probably are)

[Lamps]

Anyone seriously think Cork City can average 20,000 every second week?

They are barely getting 3 at the moment.

Remember also for those wishing to go to Bishopstown or the like, that loads of City fans deserted them when that happened, and at the time Bishopstown was "state of the art" too.

[de mange]

Anyone seriously think Cork City can average 20,000 every second week?

They are barely getting 3 at the moment.

Remember also for those wishing to go to Bishopstown or the like, that loads of City fans deserted them when that happened, and at the time Bishopstown was "state of the art" too.

dont know if they could, i actually really doubt it because the sporting public dont really care about city

on the other hand we have the right people in place to make it happen, naffs post is bang on the money and i reckon its what we will see. adain tynan is the guy in control now, he was CEO of Bord na gCon and turned dog racing from a non entity to one of the most popular friday nights out in the country now. as per naff, i have no interest in dogs either, but ive been dog racing a few times and really enjoyed the whole experience.

[MonTheHoops]

dont know if they could, i actually really doubt it because the sporting public dont really care about city

on the other hand we have the right people in place to make it happen, naffs post is bang on the money and i reckon its what we will see. adain tynan is the guy in control now, he was CEO of Bord na gCon and turned dog racing from a non entity to one of the most popular friday nights out in the country now. as per naff, i have no interest in dogs either, but ive been dog racing a few times and really enjoyed the whole experience.

Yeah but.......

There's not the money in greyhounds that there is in football - it can afford to have you pick and choose the dates you show up.

[de mange]

Yeah but.......

There's not the money in greyhounds that there is in football - it can afford to have you pick and choose the dates you show up.

cmon now mon, bigger picture here
im not suggesting that he will turn city into a greyhound racing night minus the greyhounds.. what i meant is that the mans cv is extremely impressive, he had the vision and guile to turn dog racing into a super successful set up from a dead sport only a couple of die hards cared about and im sure he will be able to formulate a plan, based on EL football this time, and turn city into a profitable venture with hugely increased turnover

[Roman Abramovich]

dont know if they could, i actually really doubt it because the sporting public dont really care about city

on the other hand we have the right people in place to make it happen, naffs post is bang on the money and i reckon its what we will see. adain tynan is the guy in control now, he was CEO of Bord na gCon and turned dog racing from a non entity to one of the most popular friday nights out in the country now. as per naff, i have no interest in dogs either, but ive been dog racing a few times and really enjoyed the whole experience.

bishopstown was the middle of nowhere back when cork city moved. we hadnt two cars per house. we werent spending money like we do now. it was the start of the celtic tiger as such. now its a whole new ball game.

[Roman Abramovich]

Yeah but.......

There's not the money in greyhounds that there is in football - it can afford to have you pick and choose the dates you show up.

the grey hound track is booked out for 8 weeks solid isnt it?

[Roman Abramovich]

cmon now mon, bigger picture here
im not suggesting that he will turn city into a greyhound racing night minus the greyhounds.. what i meant is that the mans cv is extremely impressive, he had the vision and guile to turn dog racing into a super successful set up from a dead sport only a couple of die hards cared about and im sure he will be able to formulate a plan, based on EL football this time, and turn city into a profitable venture with hugely increased turnover


is it the same guy as the greyhound track?
fuckin hell. i didnt know that.

[de mange]

is it the same guy as the greyhound track?
fuckin hell. i didnt know that.

yup

arkaga have got this one bang on
hence my optimism
but ill be run out of here for it by the SFI who know better

[Roman Abramovich]

yup

arkaga have got this one bang on
hence my optimism
but ill be run out of here for it by the SFI who know better

shite i didnt know that. prawn sandbos all the way so.
they know the potential in it for sure. I reckon they could fill that stadium.
do a miniture arsenal stadium. have a greyhound type glass centre concourse where people can sit at their tables, eat their dinner and watch the match. while the true fans stand on the terraces and cheer on the team and have a few pints under the stands. have a bookies there, have a proper club shop, have proper food stalls and no chipper vans outside etc. run free club buses from the city centre to the stadium and back (obviously sneak it into the match ticket). have a proper family section where they limit the abuse, language etc. have proper car park like a black ash type park and ride even.

you do that proper friday night becomes a huge event. Ffs have you ever watched the tv on a frida night? its shit. even have a trendy bar and club there. also you need 5 aside pitches and a decent training pitch there. even have a gym. the €10 you take for a match ticket should be the smallest bit of your revenue.

thats how youd fill a 20,000 seater stadium. bit by bit the standard would improve because youd have more money to spend on players......

regarding players. not once have arsenal been approached by a league of ireland club to loan reserve players. arsenal got 50 grand off sociead for meridas loan.

if the fai had any ambition they would step it up. there is no reason why ireland cant be at the championship/spl level regarding football, attendances, support, finance etc. its a total untaped resource. And its only attitudes like langerspam etc that hold it back by thinking its mickey mouse. And thats half the reason i dont support the game anymore. I shouldnt be in an arsenal jersey every day of the week. Not when cork city could have the potential to give me something similarish.....obvio usly to be at arsenals level would take 20 years and a huge shift in attitude, money etc. but no reason why they couldnt get to the levels of watford, palace, etc.

[de mange]

shite i didnt know that. prawn sandbos all the way so.
they know the potential in it for sure. I reckon they could fill that stadium.
do a miniture arsenal stadium. have a greyhound type glass centre concourse where people can sit at their tables, eat their dinner and watch the match. while the true fans stand on the terraces and cheer on the team and have a few pints under the stands. have a bookies there, have a proper club shop, have proper food stalls and no chipper vans outside etc. run free club buses from the city centre to the stadium and back (obviously sneak it into the match ticket). have a proper family section where they limit the abuse, language etc. have proper car park like a black ash type park and ride even.

you do that proper friday night becomes a huge event. Ffs have you ever watched the tv on a frida night? its shit. even have a trendy bar and club there. also you need 5 aside pitches and a decent training pitch there. even have a gym. the €10 you take for a match ticket should be the smallest bit of your revenue.

thats how youd fill a 20,000 seater stadium. bit by bit the standard would improve because youd have more money to spend on players......

regarding players. not once have arsenal been approached by a league of ireland club to loan reserve players. arsenal got 50 grand off sociead for meridas loan.

if the fai had any ambition they would step it up. there is no reason why ireland cant be at the championship/spl level regarding football, attendances, support, finance etc. its a total untaped resource. And its only attitudes like langerspam etc that hold it back by thinking its mickey mouse. And thats half the reason i dont support the game anymore. I shouldnt be in an arsenal jersey every day of the week. Not when cork city could have the potential to give me something similarish.....obvio usly to be at arsenals level would take 20 years and a huge shift in attitude, money etc. but no reason why they couldnt get to the levels of watford, palace, etc.

great post

hopefully arkaga are thinking along these lines, i reckon they are because the black ash site is perfect and they are talking 20k seater, anyone who thinks a new stadium with the old setup will bring an extra 17k to every home match needs their head read..

drogs and pats have similar plans in the pipeline so i reckon we will see a much higher standard of football in ireland in the near future.. would be great to have a proper facility we could be proud of and more importantly bring people to.. theres no way id bring anyone to the cross on business for match night

as for loaning players from the prem, i wouldnt have thought the clubs would be interested, in that the standard of facilities, pitches and backup is far superior even at championship level

[EDDIEB]

shite i didnt know that. prawn sandbos all the way so.
they know the potential in it for sure. I reckon they could fill that stadium.
do a miniture arsenal stadium. have a greyhound type glass centre concourse where people can sit at their tables, eat their dinner and watch the match. while the true fans stand on the terraces and cheer on the team and have a few pints under the stands. have a bookies there, have a proper club shop, have proper food stalls and no chipper vans outside etc. run free club buses from the city centre to the stadium and back (obviously sneak it into the match ticket). have a proper family section where they limit the abuse, language etc. have proper car park like a black ash type park and ride even.

you do that proper friday night becomes a huge event. Ffs have you ever watched the tv on a frida night? its shit. even have a trendy bar and club there. also you need 5 aside pitches and a decent training pitch there. even have a gym. the €10 you take for a match ticket should be the smallest bit of your revenue.

thats how youd fill a 20,000 seater stadium. bit by bit the standard would improve because youd have more money to spend on players......

regarding players. not once have arsenal been approached by a league of ireland club to loan reserve players. arsenal got 50 grand off sociead for meridas loan.

if the fai had any ambition they would step it up. there is no reason why ireland cant be at the championship/spl level regarding football, attendances, support, finance etc. its a total untaped resource. And its only attitudes like langerspam etc that hold it back by thinking its mickey mouse. And thats half the reason i dont support the game anymore. I shouldnt be in an arsenal jersey every day of the week. Not when cork city could have the potential to give me something similarish.....obvio usly to be at arsenals level would take 20 years and a huge shift in attitude, money etc. but no reason why they couldnt get to the levels of watford, palace, etc.

Think big - its the only way to go.Expand the leisure facilities,bars,rest aurant,live music all revenue generating streams at the moment the EL will only stagnate.Players and supporter will benifit.

[de mange]

City to announce possible sites for new stadium development
Written by Graham Lynch
Thursday, 03 January 2008


A announcement regarding the possible sites under consideration for the building of Cork City FC's proposed new multi-purpose stadium is expected by the months end.


While Cork City General Manager Aidan Tynan refused to comment on the development, a source within the club confirmed to the Cork Independent that an announcement on the clubs "10 year plan" can be expected by the end of January.

It is believed the clubs new owners, venture capital firm Arkaga, have earmarked a number of sites for the development of the 20,000 stadium, with Cork Con's ground in Ballinlough and sites at Black Ash and Bishopstown being suggested as possible early favourites for the clubs relocation.

At a meeting earlier this year, Tynan outlined the clubs plans for the multi-purpose stadium which will also incorporate bars, gyms and five to seven-a-side pitches. The new stadium will also being capable of staging large-scale concerts, a key factor in Arkaga's plan to significantly reduce the clubs current operating deficits.

The club are said to be looking for 15 acres close to the city centre to house the development. According to the owners, the club will need to be generating annual profits in the region of €1.5 million by five years time in order to support the investment which is expected to cost up to €40 million.

[bar99]

dont know if they could, i actually really doubt it because the sporting public dont really care about city

on the other hand we have the right people in place to make it happen, naffs post is bang on the money and i reckon its what we will see. adain tynan is the guy in control now, he was CEO of Bord na gCon and turned dog racing from a non entity to one of the most popular friday nights out in the country now. as per naff, i have no interest in dogs either, but ive been dog racing a few times and really enjoyed the whole experience.

Before people get carried away with Tynans credentials, I think he was in charge of Bord na gCon for less than 12 month so he can hardly take much credit for the turn around. He then got sacked for writing a letter to the minister about the board failing to act on doping in the industry - the chairman Pascal Taggart maintained his dismissal was due to his poor performance in the job. He certainly emerged from this episode with some dignity though and got a subsequent pay off from the board.

[MonTheHoops]

cmon now mon, bigger picture here
im not suggesting that he will turn city into a greyhound racing night minus the greyhounds.. what i meant is that the mans cv is extremely impressive, he had the vision and guile to turn dog racing into a super successful set up from a dead sport only a couple of die hards cared about and im sure he will be able to formulate a plan, based on EL football this time, and turn city into a profitable venture with hugely increased turnover

I'm not rubbishing it at all but it needs something more than the floating market that the greyhounds can afford to have. Not saying that's the model he will use, just pointing out that the sport is more fickle.

RA's post is spot on.

[Roman Abramovich]

I'm not rubbishing it at all but it needs something more than the floating market that the greyhounds can afford to have. Not saying that's the model he will use, just pointing out that the sport is more fickle.

RA's post is spot on.

in fact id go as far as saying that he should build 3 stands the exact same as the grey hound track. terraced seats under a huge glass stand. then have a kop style shed end. no columns, just rows of seats.

At a guess without really looking at the numbers an example

6000 shed end.
2000 seater + 2000 prawns other end.
2500 seater + 2500 prawns x 2 full length of pitch.

have the 2000 prawns at one end a really entry level food service like burgers and chips and plenty bars.

have a 2500 prawn a bit of a more upmarket menu
then the final 2500 prawns have a top class resturaunt style.

even get a michelin star chef if they have to. it is only a friday night every 2nd week like. or even have different top class chefs every 2nd week.

i know it seems mad but if they want to make serious money aim big. do novel shit. i know if i was involved with city thats what id be doing. the 5-aside pitches would provide a great stream too. especially if you started a Corkcity fc tournament like astro.ie or footy.ie

id lobby the government and the lottery. If i win the euro millions ill sort it for ye lads.

[de mange]

2000 seater + 2000 prawns other end.
2500 seater + 2500 prawns x 2 full length of pitch.


:) :) :)

[MonTheHoops]

in fact id go as far as saying that he should build 3 stands the exact same as the grey hound track. terraced seats under a huge glass stand. then have a kop style shed end. no columns, just rows of seats.

At a guess without really looking at the numbers an example

6000 shed end.
2000 seater + 2000 prawns other end.
2500 seater + 2500 prawns x 2 full length of pitch.

have the 2000 prawns at one end a really entry level food service like burgers and chips and plenty bars.

have a 2500 prawn a bit of a more upmarket menu
then the final 2500 prawns have a top class resturaunt style.

even get a michelin star chef if they have to. it is only a friday night every 2nd week like. or even have different top class chefs every 2nd week.

i know it seems mad but if they want to make serious money aim big. do novel shit. i know if i was involved with city thats what id be doing. the 5-aside pitches would provide a great stream too. especially if you started a Corkcity fc tournament like astro.ie or footy.ie

id lobby the government and the lottery. If i win the euro millions ill sort it for ye lads.

Ex players for the half time draw, get a mascot down there all these small things generate atmosphere.

And stop little kinds from running around the place like loons. Make it a proper stadium, not a hang out spot for 12/13 yr olds to score.