Jack Charlton

[scrumpy]

Anybody else think that he's an absolute legend. In conversation about the next Irish manager yesterday it came up about how el tel, houllier or trappatoni compare with him. in truth they dont!! Charlton was legendary in his comments to the press he had none of the typical bullshit spoutedd from Wenger,Benitez,Grant ,Mourinho,Ferguson etc



BRING BACK JACK!!!!!

[blondebimbo]

he was interviewed on bbc news thingy this morning
because it was the 50th anniversay of the busteed babes
the man utd plane crash

he was all emotional and upset poor man

[Roman Abramovich]

dont even talk to me about that man.
at the time i tought he was a legend. looking back what a cuntstain.
hurt some top class midfielders perm by having them look up at balls flying over their heads.


best thing he done? flora

[Poc Fada]

He is a legend and I voted accordingly but he's past his sell-by date as a manager and I doubt he'd like to get involved in the game directly again. English football is in a different era now - coping with mega rich owners and players would be something outside Jack's skill set.

Its always possible to find an excuse for someone's success if you have a grudge against them or don't like their personality (I personally cant stand Jack's accent) but even if he had great players he still managed to get them into a World Cup quarter final that they only lost by a single goal.

That's unlikely to be achieved again in the near future so for that reason I think, yes, he is a legend.

[POL]

in relative terms yes he is

[Poc Fada]

hurt some top class midfielders perm by having them look up at balls flying over their heads.


Sure, God love us. Lets weep for Andy Townsend, Liam Brady and Ray Houghtan. They're all in mental homes now such was the torture of Jack's regime. FFS mockery.

[Roman Abramovich]

Sure, God love us. Lets weep for Andy Townsend, Liam Brady and Ray Houghtan. They're all in mental homes now such was the torture of Jack's regime. FFS mockery.

its only leprechauns, muppets, and people who dont know a huge amount about football think that jack charlton is a legend.
look at his cv after ireland?

john wests salmon,
flora,
harry ramsdeads,
hibernian insurance,


a pure fai man

[HappyMonday83]

With the players we had in 1990 a good manager would have won that world cup.

[jd26]

Is it fair to say he got lucky with players?

He caught the tail end of O'Leary's, Brady's and Stapleton's careers. Looking back at the start of those careers, you still had John Giles in the team.

You'd have to say that our best players were around in the late 70s, but we never achieved anything then.

[Roman Abramovich]

With the players we had in 1990 a good manager would have won that world cup.

could!! not would. could!

[Wasted and wounded]

With the players we had in 1990 a good manager would have won that world cup.

You forget that a lot of players were around in the years before Charlton and we didn't even threaten to qualify. Fact is, he came in and had a plan. A plan that involved playing shit shit football, true enough, but he got the team organised and set out to get as many decent players who qualified through the granny rule as possible.

Having said that, he was average as a coach and manager. His tactics were limited, so limited that he alienated Liam Brady, but he was a great man-manager and organiser. He was undoubtedly lucky, he inherited a good squad, we scraped through the qualifying of Euro88, got battered by England in those finals, and got a relatively easy qualifying group in 1990. We played fairly crap football in that tournament but hey, we got pissed and it was great. We didn't really care did we?

Or, as I should have said ages and saved the pain of typing/reading this post, the short answer is neither.

The fact that he had that cockney pugnosed gel-headed know-nothing won-nothing fuckwit Andy Townsend as his captain also marks him down a point.

[Forsberg]

Any manager worth his salt with McGrath , Whelan, Brady, Sheedy, Stapleton, Keane, Houghton, Stapleton , Aldridge and O Leary at various stages should have no excuse for playing the type of football they did.

[EL TORO]

Any manager worth his salt with McGrath , Whelan, Brady, Sheedy, Stapleton, Keane, Houghton, Stapleton , Aldridge and O Leary at various stages should have no excuse for playing the type of football they did.

Totally agree with you. Charlton brought the good times in the 90's, but this was more of a feel good factor than football for the purists, hence Dunphy's pen throwing scenes. I enjoyed it at the as much as anyone else but to say the man is a legend for his achievements or lack of, is doing the game itself a great injustice. Remember Quinn's goal against the Dutch in 1990, Bonner grimaces, launches a garryowen and Quinn does what he does best and sticks out his 12 foot leg to put it past Van Bruekelen. Hardly free flowing football but we lapped it up. The memories will last for all of us but we should not confuse great nights out with footballing class.

[Roman Abramovich]

Totally agree with you. Charlton brought the good times in the 90's, but this was more of a feel good factor than football for the purists, hence Dunphy's pen throwing scenes. I enjoyed it at the as much as anyone else but to say the man is a legend for his achievements or lack of, is doing the game itself a great injustice. Remember Quinn's goal against the Dutch in 1990, Bonner grimaces, launches a garryowen and Quinn does what he does best and sticks out his 12 foot leg to put it past Van Bruekelen. Hardly free flowing football but we lapped it up. The memories will last for all of us but we should not confuse great nights out with footballing class.
exactly. at the time we cheered it on and goodtimes were had by everyone. but i reckon that was the start of the muppet irish fan. i stopped following ireland when roy keane got kicked out. as i said on many occasions. up to that point i hated keane with a passion. but he was wronged 100% and to this day ireland are still doing things arse ways. look at the fiasco of the manager at the moment. if i was el tel and offered the job id tell them shove it up their holes. what a joke situtation. so far keane, dunne and kilbane have had to go to the media to get the fai to announce a manager. it wreeks fai yet the fans will be there in their 10,000s tonight cheering them on. what a fuckin joke.

and i blame charlton for all that. if sport was a buisness and the fai were a company, not one single person here would deal with them because they are so shit and incompetant. i for one dont care that its a sport and until their is major reform in that organisation i wont renew any ticket schemes i signed up to them previously and i certainly wont go and watch them. i dont think ive missed out on anything since 2002 and that sums the shower up even more.

[Wasted and wounded]

if i was el tel and offered the job id tell them shove it up their holes.

Agree with everything apart from that. If I was El Tel, I'd pocket the €1.5 milliion a year they're offering, do a bit of the old cockney wheeler dealer act for a little while, achieve nothing and fuck off back to Marbella with my reputation intact.

[EL TORO]

exactly. at the time we cheered it on and goodtimes were had by everyone. but i reckon that was the start of the muppet irish fan. i stopped following ireland when roy keane got kicked out. as i said on many occasions. up to that point i hated keane with a passion. but he was wronged 100% and to this day ireland are still doing things arse ways. look at the fiasco of the manager at the moment. if i was el tel and offered the job id tell them shove it up their holes. what a joke situtation. so far keane, dunne and kilbane have had to go to the media to get the fai to announce a manager. it wreeks fai yet the fans will be there in their 10,000s tonight cheering them on. what a fuckin joke.

and i blame charlton for all that. if sport was a buisness and the fai were a company, not one single person here would deal with them because they are so shit and incompetant. i for one dont care that its a sport and until their is major reform in that organisation i wont renew any ticket schemes i signed up to them previously and i certainly wont go and watch them. i dont think ive missed out on anything since 2002 and that sums the shower up even more.

Yep a shower of jokers indeed. There are football associations in central Africa that operate on a level the FAI can only aspire to.

[the puerto rican feen]

he was interviewed on bbc news thingy this morning
because it was the 50th anniversay of the busteed babes
the man utd plane crash

he was all emotional and upset poor man

eh that might have been his brother bobby

[legend76]

Any manager worth his salt with McGrath , Whelan, Brady, Sheedy, Stapleton, Keane, Houghton, Stapleton , Aldridge and O Leary at various stages should have no excuse for playing the type of football they did.

correct !!!


i'm not too happy with voting that he was "lucky", but it's closer to the truth

[scrumpy]

Totally agree with you. Charlton brought the good times in the 90's, but this was more of a feel good factor than football for the purists, hence Dunphy's pen throwing scenes. I enjoyed it at the as much as anyone else but to say the man is a legend for his achievements or lack of, is doing the game itself a great injustice. Remember Quinn's goal against the Dutch in 1990, Bonner grimaces, launches a garryowen and Quinn does what he does best and sticks out his 12 foot leg to put it past Van Bruekelen. Hardly free flowing football but we lapped it up. The memories will last for all of us but we should not confuse great nights out with footballing class.


to be honest if they played shite in every game and won i'd be happy with that. the thing is they were hard to beat and hard to play against. sure ireland did have some good footballers but other countries had players equal if not better than the irish. I believe his tactic of playing the game in the oppponents half may not exactly be the purist arsenal esque way of playing soccer but hey it worked to an extent and with a little more luck it could have worked some more! i've huge time for jack i think the way he dealt with the mollycoddled players of the time was wht should go on now. rather than tell stephen ireland its ok to be a muppet just come back and play he should get a clip round the ear and a kick up the hole and be told to get his ass in line. you knew where you stood with jack something that is becoming increasingly rare in football tody

[Lamps]

Any manager worth his salt with McGrath , Whelan, Brady, Sheedy, Stapleton, Keane, Houghton, Stapleton , Aldridge and O Leary at various stages should have no excuse for playing the type of football they did.

I completely disagree

[EL TORO]

I completely disagree

Yep a team with 2 Stapelton's would have been shite! ;)

[exileonpatrickstreet]

... I doubt he'd like to get involved in the game directly again ...

good thing you're here to tell us this. he's 72 and hasn't had a full-time job in football since 1985 - just the man premiership chairmen are crying out for

Any manager worth his salt with McGrath , Whelan, Brady, Sheedy, Stapleton, Keane, Houghton, Stapleton , Aldridge and O Leary at various stages should have no excuse for playing the type of football they did.

lawrenson, bonner, irwin, moran

[Lamps]

Yep a team with 2 Stapelton's would have been shite! ;)

If we tried to play a passing game against most teams they would have beaten us. Even with some of the players you mentioned.

Big Jack had a system and it worked. It wasn't pretty but it got results. For my money, we would have gotten less success had we played a passing game.
England had better players than us and were fannying about trying to play with a sweeper and a passing game, they were no more successful than us at the time.

I doubt Paisley would have been as successful.

[DogTheLangerHunter]

I'll give him that at least he was the one who introduced a winning mentality into Irish football that they never had before.Now,that's where the compliments end,wasn't much of a FOOTBALL manager,didn't seem to know his stuff technically.Could shout with the best of em but not manage.That team could have been much better.

[Mr.Mister]

he was interviewed on bbc news thingy this morning
because it was the 50th anniversay of the busteed babes
the man utd plane crash

he was all emotional and upset poor man

Whose babes?

[Wasted and wounded]

lawrenson, bonner, irwin, moran

woh woh woh, lets not go mental here, Bonner was one of the worst keepers ever to play in goal for Ireland. Over-rated beyond belief.

[blondebimbo]

Whose babes?

erm i think he was the man u manger at the time of the crash

[Mr.Mister]

erm i think he was the man u manger at the time of the crash

Sir Matt Busteed your telling me?

[DogTheLangerHunter]

Sir Matt Busteed your telling me?

She's a retard like...

[blondebimbo]

you shouldnt use that word shit head

[Mr.Mister]

She's a retard like...

Woo,you got a fighter on your hands with that one there.

[DogTheLangerHunter]

you shouldnt use that word shit head

What do ye prefer to be called?

[Mr.Mister]

What do ye prefer to be called?

Go on DTLH!

[blondebimbo]

shut up ginger pubes

[Mr.Mister]

Pubes your mouth will never touch,as i wouldn't leave you suck my cock,just to deprieve you...

[DogTheLangerHunter]

shut up ginger pubes

Will someone get her back on "the bus" before she hurts herself

[blondebimbo]

o grow up

[blondebimbo]

Pubes your mouth will never touch,as i wouldn't leave you suck my cock,just to deprieve you...


o please like i want to be near your pubes

[pudgee]

You forget that a lot of players were around in the years before Charlton and we didn't even threaten to qualify.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, Ireland were within a game of qualifying for Euro 84, and only scraped in to Euro 88 cos other results went our way in the last round of games.

[Wasted and wounded]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, Ireland were within a game of qualifying for Euro 84, and only scraped in to Euro 88 cos other results went our way in the last round of games.

I agreed, I said we scraped into Euro 88.

The difference was though, we were still a game away in 84, but were not a game away in 88, we qualified. Charlton got us over that hump of never qualifying first time he tried, you can't dismiss that, no matter what shite football followed.

[Liathroidi Mor]

he was interviewed on bbc news thingy this morning
because it was the 50th anniversay of the busteed babes
the man utd plane crash

he was all emotional and upset poor man

That was his brother bobby!!!

[doppellanger]

A lot of those players were around in the Eoin Hand era. Stapleton, Moran, Brady and Lawrenson were all 29 or 30 when Jack took on the job. Whelan, O'Leary and McGrath were in their mid-to-late 20s.

The FAI realised that they had an uncommonly talented bunch of players and that they were underachieving.

Part of it was the players' attitude to internationals - it was a weekend back in Dublin or in some far-flung location and there may have been the temptation to go for a pint etc. Jack instilled some discipline. He dropped David O'Leary when he wanted to go on holidays with his family instead of play for Ireland and that set the tone. It was a bit harsh on

The team he got to USA 94 with didn't have the same strength in depth but he did well with the resources that were available to him at the time.

[Lee Bushwacker]

Is it fair to say he got lucky with players?

He caught the tail end of O'Leary's, Brady's and Stapleton's careers. Looking back at the start of those careers, you still had John Giles in the team.

You'd have to say that our best players were around in the late 70s, but we never achieved anything then.

:crazyeye:
The tail end of Dave O'Learys career my arse!
Charlton could have had McGrath & O'Leary as the central defensive pair but he had to have that yorkshire, no first touch dickhead ie. McCarthy in the team. So what was the "solution"?
1. Drop Dave O Leary for no particularly good reason.
2. Put McCarthy in O'Leary's place.
3. Play McGrath (one of, if not the best central defenders in Europe) as a holding "midfielder" to cover up McCarthy's lack of pace, first touch, and his tendency to commit fouls close to his team's penalty area.
His "shafting" of Brady after 15mins. of a friendly against West Germany early in 1990 was a disgrace. Questions could be asked if he really didn't trust players who were Irish "born and bred" or if he preferred players who not being good enough for England or Scotland took the first international cap offered.
Some years after he retired Charlton admitted that he had never trusted "footballing" centre-halves. I suppose in Ireland's case he was true to his word. :rolleyes:

[Lee Bushwacker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, Ireland were within a game of qualifying for Euro 84, and only scraped in to Euro 88 cos other results went our way in the last round of games.
If we had beaten France by 3-1 instead of 3-2 in 1981 we would have been in Spain 1982. In our qualifying were Holland, Belguim and France among others. Our best ever "footballers" playing attractive stuff not "down the gulleys" as in "Jacks" era.
Eoin Hand was the manager by the way and we didn't need Fleet Street to tell us that we were good!!!

[STEVIEG]

If we had beaten France by 3-1 instead of 3-2 in 1981 we would have been in Spain 1982. In our qualifying were Holland, Belguim and France among others. Our best ever "footballers" playing attractive stuff not "down the gulleys" as in "Jacks" era.
Eoin Hand was the manager by the way and we didn't need Fleet Street to tell us that we were good!!!

We were talking of that recently

You are dead right

Savage campaign we were robbed in Belgium:(

[Lee Bushwacker]

A lot of those players were around in the Eoin Hand era. Stapleton, Moran, Brady and Lawrenson were all 29 or 30 when Jack took on the job. Whelan, O'Leary and McGrath were in their mid-to-late 20s.

The FAI realised that they had an uncommonly talented bunch of players and that they were underachieving.

Part of it was the players' attitude to internationals - it was a weekend back in Dublin or in some far-flung location and there may have been the temptation to go for a pint etc. Jack instilled some discipline. He dropped David O'Leary when he wanted to go on holidays with his family instead of play for Ireland and that set the tone. It was a bit harsh on

The team he got to USA 94 with didn't have the same strength in depth but he did well with the resources that were available to him at the time.

:vamp:
O'Leary had booked a Summer holiday with his family which coincided with a triangular that Jack had organised in Iceland with the host country, Czechoslovakia and ourselves. Can't blame O'Leary for choosing sunny places at the end of the season. The other "tournament" seemed to be a predecessor of the "America Crap (Cup)" was was for the good of the FAI officials and NOT the players .:twisted:

[doppellanger]

:crazyeye:

3. Play McGrath (one of, if not the best central defenders in Europe) as a holding "midfielder" to cover up McCarthy's lack of pace, first touch, and his tendency to commit fouls close to his team's penalty area.
His "shafting" of Brady after 15mins. of a friendly against West Germany early in 1990 was a disgrace. Questions could be asked if he really didn't trust players who were Irish "born and bred" or if he preferred players who not being good enough for England or Scotland took the first international cap offered.
Some years after he retired Charlton admitted that he had never trusted "footballing" centre-halves. I suppose in Ireland's case he was true to his word. :rolleyes:

McGrath played regularly in midfield at United. And Jack would probably argue that he would play McGrath in goal if he thought it would get the result. Yes, he was harsh on individual players but that was the sort of discipline Ireland needed.

Brady had retired from international football before 1990 and apparently tried to come back for the world cup.

Charlton played plenty of Irish-born players e.g. Staunton, Irwin.

[doppellanger]

:vamp:
O'Leary had booked a Summer holiday with his family which coincided with a triangular that Jack had organised in Iceland with the host country, Czechoslovakia and ourselves. Can't blame O'Leary for choosing sunny places at the end of the season. The other "tournament" seemed to be a predecessor of the "America Crap (Cup)" was was for the good of the FAI officials and NOT the players .:twisted:

It might have been hard on O'Leary but he was making an example. If he could drop O'Leary, who was a serious footballer with Arsenal, the other players realised they could get the same treatment just as easily.

[Wasted and wounded]

Plus, O'Leary was/is a cuntbag, hated by a lot of the rest of the players.

[Lamps]

What do ye prefer to be called?

she's right actually, a bit less of the retard stuff

[Lamps]

I agreed, I said we scraped into Euro 88.

The difference was though, we were still a game away in 84, but were not a game away in 88, we qualified. Charlton got us over that hump of never qualifying first time he tried, you can't dismiss that, no matter what shite football followed.

Yup.
Jack Charlton did more for soccer in this country than anyone else

[Lamps]

:crazyeye:
The tail end of Dave O'Learys career my arse!
Charlton could have had McGrath & O'Leary as the central defensive pair but he had to have that yorkshire, no first touch dickhead ie. McCarthy in the team. So what was the "solution"?
1. Drop Dave O Leary for no particularly good reason.
2. Put McCarthy in O'Leary's place.
3. Play McGrath (one of, if not the best central defenders in Europe) as a holding "midfielder" to cover up McCarthy's lack of pace, first touch, and his tendency to commit fouls close to his team's penalty area.
His "shafting" of Brady after 15mins. of a friendly against West Germany early in 1990 was a disgrace. Questions could be asked if he really didn't trust players who were Irish "born and bred" or if he preferred players who not being good enough for England or Scotland took the first international cap offered.
Some years after he retired Charlton admitted that he had never trusted "footballing" centre-halves. I suppose in Ireland's case he was true to his word. :rolleyes:

Paul McGrath said they needed McCarthy in that team almost more than anyone else, he was their leader

[exileonpatrickstreet]

kevin moran, packie and whelan weren't leaders? come on.

we wouldn't ever have needed that backs-against-the-wall arse-in-the-bacon-slicer type of leadership that mccarthy gave if we'd not been hoofing away possession two times out of three

[EDDIEB]

Paul McGrath said they needed McCarthy in that team almost more than anyone else, he was their leader

Paul was probably sloshed at the time,great player but poor judge of character.

[Lamps]

kevin moran, packie and whelan weren't leaders? come on.

we wouldn't ever have needed that backs-against-the-wall arse-in-the-bacon-slicer type of leadership that mccarthy gave if we'd not been hoofing away possession two times out of three

McCarthy and later Townsend were the teams leaders, anyone involved with the teams at the time says the same. Not saying that Moran and Whelan weren't better players as IMO they were.

Lot of revisionism going on regarding this. Its a bandwagon a lot of people like to jump on as it cannot be proven either way. IMO we owe Charlton a lot

[Lamps]

Paul was probably sloshed at the time,great player but poor judge of character.

Classy

[Langer Dan]

Yup.
Jack Charlton did more for soccer in this country than anyone else

No arguing with his record, Id rather be playing shite and winning than champagne footballl and getting stuffed.

That said I feel people resent the fact that the mercenary element were introduced into the Irish national team under Big Jack.

Vinnie Jones like.:lol!:

[Lamps]

Out of interest what team would people here have picked?

Its two from Moran, McGrath, O'Leary,Lawrenson and McGrath.

Ability wise its Lawerenson and McGrath by a street.


Here is the team that Ireland put out in 1987 v scotland

Bonner,
McGrath, McCarthy, Moran, Whelan,
Houghton, Lawrenson, Brady, Galvin,
Staplteon, Aldridge.

[doppellanger]

Out of interest what team would people here have picked?

Its two from Moran, McGrath, O'Leary,Lawrenson and McGrath.


McGrath and McGrath. Definitely.

[Langer Dan]

Out of interest what team would people here have picked?

Its two from Moran, McGrath, O'Leary,Lawrenson and McGrath.

Ability wise its Lawerenson and McGrath by a street.


Here is the team that Ireland put out in 1987 v scotland

Bonner,
McGrath, McCarthy, Moran, Whelan,
Houghton, Lawrenson, Brady, Galvin,
Staplteon, Aldridge.


McGrath and Moran or O'leary.

Lawro should never have been capped for Ireland.
Preston like, ffs.

[Roman Abramovich]

Lawro should never have been capped for Ireland.
.

oh god......

[Langer Dan]

oh god......

Have you ever listened to him?

He no sooner views himself as Irish as you view yourself Welsh.
Im not disputing the guy was a class act on the pitch , not for a second,but tbh, every time I hear him on the Beeb ,referring to Engurland as 'we' it sickens me that he got 39 caps.

[Roman Abramovich]

Have you ever listened to him?

He no sooner views himself as Irish as you view yourself Welsh.
Im not disputing the guy was a class act on the pitch , not for a second,but tbh, every time I hear him on the Beeb ,referring to Engurland as 'we' it sickens me that he got 39 caps.

"Lawro should never have been capped for Ireland.
Preston like, ffs."
"Im not disputing the guy was a class act on the pitch"

oh god.
reg refers to himself as irish when i seen him commenting on ireland games.

[Langer Dan]

If you're not interested in discussing something , why reply?

If you want to trade insults , go do it in front of the mirror.