Ireland Team V France

[Brad]

Shocked he actually made a few changes but i suppose he had too. Pit he didn't start Jackman, Keanry and Heaslip last week to give them some proper game time in a 6 Nations. Bit too late for EOS now i think. The damage has being done. Will lose by 15-20.

15 - Girvan Dempsey
14 - Geordan Murphy
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (captain)
12 - Andrew Trimble
11 - Robert Kearney
10 - Ronan O'Gara
9 - Eoin Reddan
1 - Marcus Horan
2 - Bernard Jackman
3 - John Hayes
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan
5 - Malcolm O'Kelly
6 - Denis Leamy
7 - David Wallace
8 - Jamie Heaslip

Replacements:
16 - Rory Best
17 - Tony Buckley
18 - Mick O'Driscoll
19 - Simon Easterby
20 - Peter Stringer
21 - Paddy Wallace
22 - Shane Horgan

[raZor]

Was forced to change more than anything, Kearneys only in because of Darcy's injury, Heaslips in because Easterby acted like an eejit and Best was terrible.

If Best had a good game, Darcy wasnt injured and Easterby wasnt sinbinned would he still have changed.

Doesnt look good, France by 15-20 I think.

[EDDIEB]

Should have dropped Dempsey also and have Murphy at FB.Bowe on the wing however the risk of both of them against rampant French could have been risky ?M.O'Kelly is lucky to be in there also.

[Brad]

Was forced to change more than anything, Kearneys only in because of Darcy's injury, Heaslips in because Easterby acted like an eejit and Best was terrible.

If Best had a good game, Darcy wasnt injured and Easterby wasnt sinbinned would he still have changed.

Doesnt look good, France by 15-20 I think.

I supposed he was forced into change, but in saying that i think we have all seen Eddie stick with players who have played worse than Easterby and Best. He clearly doesn't think Easterby was that bad, otheriwse he would fooked him out of the 22 and brought in Alan Quinlan on the bench. Looking forward to seeing can Jackman and Healsip add a bit of buzz to the forward pack. I highly doubt it though - i think the players just want to play for Eddie anymore.

[Brad]

Should have dropped Dempsey also and have Murphy at FB.Bowe on the wing however the risk of both of them against rampant French could have been risky ?M.O'Kelly is lucky to be in there also.


Murphy at full back?? Are you serious? The guy is a genius but also a clown. he is a bit of a David James character. Can do some wonderful shit with the rugby ball but makes some really desparate mistakes.

[EDDIEB]

Murphy at full back?? Are you serious? The guy is a genius but also a clown. he is a bit of a David James character. Can do some wonderful shit with the rugby ball but makes some really desparate mistakes.

He won't sleep well this week as the thought of facing the French must haunt him.He's great going forward but defensivly inept.Murphy history against France is very poor.

[Langer Dan]

Big Mal should have been dropped on the back of the Italy performance. Sticking with a guy his age shows O'Sullivan has no vision for the future of this side.

[EDDIEB]

Big Mal should have been dropped on the back of the Italy performance. Sticking with a guy his age shows O'Sullivan has no vision for the future of this side.

M.O'D would have been a boost but M.O'K won't last whole game anyway.P.O.C is due to be back for the Scotland game fingers crossed.Quinlan should also be on the bench as an option ?

[Langer Dan]

Yep,Quinny should have made the replacements at least.
The Italy game was crying out for a fella like him, whod get stuck in.

Easterby was stood off the whole time, lifeless performance.
What has Bob Casey got to do to make the squad?
His form has been fantastic this season,
Id have Micko or Cullen ahead of O'Kelly, hes well past it, I exoect him to be taken to the cleaners by the French.

[HappyMonday83]

Another poor selection by steady eddie. Murphy should be in at full back. It's a myth that he can't defend, I accept that he's not as solid as girve the swerve but if the ghoys expect to beat france in france they won't do it by playing it safe. All this team will achieve is being beaten by a lower score.

[Langer Dan]

Spot on HM, this 'Murphy cant play against the french' is bollocks.
As per usual hes doing the business week in, week out for Leicester, I doubt Eddie would pick him if Horgan was right.

Eddie doesnt pick his best team, fact.
Payne has been the best fullback in Ireland for the last three seasons and Eddie didnt even give him a sniff.

Dempsey is solid but Murphy gives you a lot more going forward.

[EDDIEB]

They do not expect to beat France in France.Could have rung the changes and brought newer players into the set up for next season.

Damage limitation and EOS career saving exercise,an awful lot of things would have to go right for Ireland and badly for France for an Ireland win however with the team backs to the wall current mentality you never would know but last year in Croke Park was the chance and they blew it.

[HappyMonday83]

They do not expect to beat France in France.Could have rung the changes and brought newer players into the set up for next season.

Damage limitation and EOS career saving exercise,an awful lot of things would have to go right for Ireland and badly for France for an Ireland win however with the team backs to the wall current mentality you never would know but last year in Croke Park was the chance and they blew it.

This is unlikely. As far as i'm concerned eddie is the only one under pressure. An over-haul of the team isn't really needed, maybe only two or three players on the team aren't worth their place. It appears the players don't want to play for eddie. France to put 40+ on arland.

[raZor]

Yep,Quinny should have made the replacements at least.
The Italy game was crying out for a fella like him, whod get stuck in.

Easterby was stood off the whole time, lifeless performance.
What has Bob Casey got to do to make the squad?
His form has been fantastic this season,
Id have Micko or Cullen ahead of O'Kelly, hes well past it, I exoect him to be taken to the cleaners by the French.

Bob Casey will never play for Ireland under EOS he was in some form the last few seasons and still couldnt get on the bench.

EOS doesnt care about the future of Irish rugby, hes only thinking of keeping his job. If he had changed around the team for this campaign, got rid of the dead wood and came 2nd from bottom he would have kept his job seeing as it was a "transition" as it stands anything less than winning the 6 nations (which we wont) he should be out.

Still a buy out from the last three years will see less of a budget for a new coach.....Michael Bradley awaits I'd say.

[lackie]

How does horgan justify getting his place back on the bench, he was shocking against 'the saxons' last friday, whereas Bowe was savage in both attach and defence. the story of centre cover doesn't wash here cause paddy wallace can cover that as well, it doesn't make sense especially with eddie's 'picking on form' bullshit.

[Doh doh Yelly]

How does horgan justify getting his place back on the bench, he was shocking against 'the saxons' last friday, whereas Bowe was savage in both attach and defence. the story of centre cover doesn't wash here cause paddy wallace can cover that as well, it doesn't make sense especially with eddie's 'picking on form' bullshit.

The thing with Bowe is that every time he gets tha ball he cuts back inside. You need someone who can try the French on the outside (I'm not saying its Horgan though!). Wallace would be the best bet, he can cover (badly) at outhalf, something O'Sullivan never takes into account. I would have liked to see Luke Fitzgerald on the bench instead.

[mirps]

The thing with Bowe is that every time he gets tha ball he cuts back inside. You need someone who can try the French on the outside (I'm not saying its Horgan though!). Wallace would be the best bet, he can cover (badly) at outhalf, something O'Sullivan never takes into account. I would have liked to see Luke Fitzgerald on the bench instead.

Agreed, he has also been in fine form.

[lackie]

Luke fitzgerald, for the A's last friday he seemed to be going well early when he was up against ollie smith, but seemed to go out of the game when anthony allen came on with the switch of geraghty and lamb, Didn't feature much late on. he will be class in years to come, maybe not quite BOD but we might never have one as good as him. Still Horgan was shite!!!

[HappyMonday83]

Luke fitzgerald, for the A's last friday he seemed to be going well early when he was up against ollie smith, but seemed to go out of the game when anthony allen came on with the switch of geraghty and lamb, Didn't feature much late on. he will be class in years to come, maybe not quite BOD but we might never have one as good as him. Still Horgan was shite!!!

Even BOD isn't as good as BOD these days. The man has been stale for about three years now. Still a excellent centre, but a shadow of his former self.

[Langer Dan]

Even BOD isn't as good as BOD these days. The man has been stale for about three years now. Still a excellent centre, but a shadow of his former self.


Hes had a good few injuries, seems to have taken from his game a lot.

[Edmund Blackwater]

Hes had a good few injuries, seems to have taken from his game a lot.

Seems to have upped his defence immesurably at the expense of his attacking flair.
Heving ROG pegging passes behind you can't help either.

[Barney]

so is Stringer injured, or is it that he's on the way out in terms of performance that he's on the subs bench...

[HappyMonday83]

so is Stringer injured, or is it that he's on the way out in terms of performance that he's on the subs bench...

GET OUT.

[Langer Dan]

Seems to have upped his defence immesurably at the expense of his attacking flair.
Heving ROG pegging passes behind you can't help either.

Immeasurably,

schoolboy error.

[Brad]

Is Vincent Clerc shagging his Lievremont's wife? Nah, i presume he is just trying things out and freshning thing up (maybe EOS could do the fooking same!). That is some player for him to come in though - Rougerie. Pretty happy Skrela is number 10 - very solid player but you can always read what he is going to do - a poorer version of O Gara so to speak.

C Heymans (Toulouse); A Rougerie (Clermont-Auvergne), D Marty (Perpignan), D Traille (Biarritz), J Malzieu (Clermont-Auvergne); D Skrela (Stade Francais), J-B Elissalde (Toulouse); N Mas (Perpignan), D Szarzewski (Stade Francais), L Faure (Sale), A Mela (Albi), L Nallet (Castres), F Ouedraogo (Montpellier), T Dusautoir (Toulouse), J Bonnaire (Clermont-Auvergne).
Replacements: W Servat (Toulouse), J Brugnaut (Dax), L Jacquet (Clermont-Auvergne), L Picamoles (Montpellier), M Parra (Bourgoin), F Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), V Clerc (Toulouse).

[jd26]

The wings changes will make little difference to them. Skrela for Trinh-Duc would in theory strengthen the team. Skrela has considerably more experience, although Trinh-Duc had a decent first match against Scotland.

Bonnaire for Vermeulen hardly weakens them. I know nothing about Picamoles, the guy who's made the bench now Vermeulen is out of the tournament.

The front row changes are neutral, although I'm not mad about Szarzewski at hooker.

Overall, it looks to make little difference to them skillwise, but adds experience.

I'd like to see us put a few high balls down Heymans' throat early in the match. Sometimes he makes an early mistake and then lets the situation get to him.

[Brad]

The wings changes will make little difference to them. Skrela for Trinh-Duc would in theory strengthen the team. Skrela has considerably more experience, although Trinh-Duc had a decent first match against Scotland.

Bonnaire for Vermeulen hardly weakens them. I know nothing about Picamoles, the guy who's made the bench now Vermeulen is out of the tournament.

The front row changes are neutral, although I'm not mad about Szarzewski at hooker.

Overall, it looks to make little difference to them skillwise, but adds experience.

I'd like to see us put a few high balls down Heymans' throat early in the match. Sometimes he makes an early mistake and then lets the situation get to him.


I just think with Skrela he is a very structured number ten as opposed to say a maverick number 10 like maybe Carlos Spencer, Michalak, etc. We ourselves are a very boring structured team and i think Eddie will be happy enough having a known quantity in there so to speak. Plus i think Skrela is weak enough in the tackle. Wouldn't it be great to have Quinlan in there chasing the prick down all day and hitting him with a few legal, late tackles! Do on Betsen on it so to speak.

Heymans can be dodgy under the high ball but that was the against the Argies who managed to kick the ball up incredibly high and get some great hang time. Don't think O Gara will have the time to do that as pack will be under pressure. Hernandez had all the time in the world in the world cup as pack was on the front foot.

Anyway France by 15-20.

[HappyMonday83]

I think we all know what's going to happen.

The french pack will make shit of the ghoys for the first 20 minutes before they start to throw the ball around. There'll be some great trys scored. Malzieu and Rougerie running at Murphy and Kearney. Nuff said.

[jd26]

Sadly I have to agree with most of that assessment, except that I think the French tries are more likely to come from the back row rather than the wings.

[HappyMonday83]

Sadly I have to agree with most of that assessment, except that I think the French tries are more likely to come from the back row rather than the wings.

I think kearney is going to get his ass handed to him on a plate.

This is excellent for arland.

[Rebel Yell]

Here's hoping the new guys have a good one and the 'residents' in Eddie's side show up this week...

Sure , the French were wonderful last week bust lets pray they fall victim to that fairly consistent French trait called complacency...

Heymans , Malzieu and Clerc are an awesome attacking trio and if they click into gear again this saturday, I fear for us...

I'd say Rog will be bombarding the corners with ball at every opportunity...

[Rebel Yell]

Here's hoping the new guys have a good one and the 'residents' in Eddie's side show up this week...

Sure , the French were wonderful last week bust lets pray they fall victim to that fairly consistent French trait called complacency...

Heymans , Malzieu and Clerc are an awesome attacking trio and if they click into gear again this saturday, I fear for us...

I'd say Rog will be bombarding the corners with ball at every opportunity...

Rougerie in for Clerc...fock sake..tis like swopping a Merc for a Bentley ....that is the key difference between us and the French...vast depth of quality...

[scrumpy]

Here's hoping the new guys have a good one and the 'residents' in Eddie's side show up this week...

Sure , the French were wonderful last week bust lets pray they fall victim to that fairly consistent French trait called complacency...

Heymans , Malzieu and Clerc are an awesome attacking trio and if they click into gear again this saturday, I fear for us...

I'd say Rog will be bombarding the corners with ball at every opportunity...

as he should be doing in every game

[HappyMonday83]

Here's hoping the new guys have a good one and the 'residents' in Eddie's side show up this week...

Sure , the French were wonderful last week bust lets pray they fall victim to that fairly consistent French trait called complacency...

Heymans , Malzieu and Clerc are an awesome attacking trio and if they click into gear again this saturday, I fear for us...

I'd say Rog will be bombarding the corners with ball at every opportunity...

He's not good at anything else.

[BangorFeen]

I think we all know what's going to happen.

The french pack will make shit of the ghoys for the first 20 minutes before they start to throw the ball around. There'll be some great trys scored. Malzieu and Rougerie running at Murphy and Kearney. Nuff said.
Lievremont knows exactly what he's doing. IMO his default position is a fine balance of wanting to win games and enusre everybody has the requisite experience.


Malzieu and Rougerie are going to make shit of our wingers in one-on-one situations.
Heymans is a genuine risk but, mweh, that's France. I guess Lievremont feels he brings more to the party in attack. Given that our wingers are likely to have a good bit on their plates to start with, it's an acceptable chance to take.
Were the French facing our first-choice centre pairing (in form) then there is NO WAY they'd play a pairing of Marty and Traille but gien that it isn't, they'll be happy enough to contain us here with that selection and to take primary ball up the middle to tie us in.
That backrow is going to shit on us from a great height. They're unlucky to be minus Vermeleun
The front row is very handy, Szwarzeski has a shocking throw but given that he's replacing Ibanez, that can only mean better service. He's very good both at the scrum and in the loose. Mas is a very competent prop and will cause us problems. I really would've liked to have seen Buckley in the 15, preferably for Wingnut
ROG/Reddan is about the only area we could claim parity or better (and even that is subject to debate)
The French plan? It's simple; punch us up the middle, get it our wide with only Kearney/Murphy in the way. France by 20.

[Brad]

Clerc is back in as Malzieu is out with thigh injury.

[HappyMonday83]

Clerc is back in as Malzieu is out with thigh injury.

A tough blow having to play clerc. :rolleyes:


Allez les bleu

[ComfortablyNumb]

Come on lads have a bit of faith :rolleyes:

[Liathroidi Mor]

We'll be bate out the gate!!!

[BangorFeen]

Clerc is back in as Malzieu is out with thigh injury.
How many tries should we put him down for then? Does three sound reasonable?

[OC]

[QUOTE=HappyMonday83; 1885474]I think kearney is going to get his ass handed to him on a plate.

QUOTE]

and Dempsey is gonna be steam-rolled by rougerie too,

ala lomu over underwood

[jd26]

I'm not massively worried about Kearney or even Murphy on the wing. Dempsey's lack of pace could be a major issue against this French team. The problem is Murphy never looks as convincing at full back as on the wing.

I don't know what alternatives we have at full back. Paddy Wallace has played there for Ulster, but it's not his normal position. Johne Murphy looks a good prospect at Leicester, but he's in and out of the first team there and often plays on the wing. Besides, Eddie doesn't like English based players.

[mirps]

I'm not massively worried about Kearney or even Murphy on the wing. Dempsey's lack of pace could be a major issue against this French team. The problem is Murphy never looks as convincing at full back as on the wing.

I don't know what alternatives we have at full back. Paddy Wallace has played there for Ulster, but it's not his normal position. Johne Murphy looks a good prospect at Leicester, but he's in and out of the first team there and often plays on the wing. Besides, Eddie doesn't like English based players.

Luke fitzgerald?

[BangorFeen]

Luke fitzgerald?
No, no and thrice no! He rarely does it even at ML level, never mind HEC or international. Kearney could possibly do a job there. In any event, Dempsey is our best option there. He gets a butt-load of bad press despite being one of Leinster's best players this season and doing very little wrong last Saturday

[jd26]

I don't have a problem with Dempsey's ball skills or rugby brain, but whenever he comes up against someone who can run quickly he gets skinned. That's not going to be a problem against Scotland or Italy and Shane Williams is the only concern in the Welsh team, but France and England have players who can do that to him.

Thank God Strettle won't be fit when we play England.

[Carmona]

Ireland by 3.

[Rebel Yell]

I believe BOD will step up to the plate and his rousing pre-match team talk will whip the lads up into such a frenzy that the French will be unable to cope with our physicality, ferocity and tenacity at the breakdown, shakedown and the post match hoe down.....

[BangorFeen]

I believe BOD will step up to the plate and his rousing pre-match team talk will whip the lads up into such a frenzy that the French will be unable to cope with our physicality, ferocity and tenacity at the breakdown, shakedown and the post match hoe down.....
France to get lit up like a motherfucker!!!!

[Rebel Yell]

Seriously, I am divided in my thoughts on how this game might pan out....I have seen the French shine like they did last week and follow this with a complacent showing on too many occasions to trust that they will certainly wallop us, as the common view is.

I think Kearney can be a decent player at international level but going to paris is such a mental block of fear for Irish teams that i hope he's not in for the proverbial lamb treatment tomorrow....

The possibilities are too many in this game for me to call it with any personal conviction....i've had a sneaky feeling about an Irish win all week....I may need some psychiatric evaluation but I'll stubbornly hang on to that feeling until tomorrow...

...until it's demolished after about 15 mins :)

[HappyMonday83]

I'm revising my pervious prediction in light of recent events. France to score 50+.

[ComfortablyNumb]

The first 10 - 15 mins will be vital, if the Irish can start strong and put France on the back foot then there is a chance (albeit small chance) of an Irish win.

[BangorFeen]

I'm revising my pervious prediction in light of recent events. France to score 50+.
Now you're just wumming. Ireland didn't conceded 50 points even to the English team of the early 2000s. 30-odd seems reasonable though

[EDDIEB]

I'm revising my pervious prediction in light of recent events. France to score 50+.

Recent events ?

France to score 50+ ?

Wumtastic.

[HappyMonday83]

Now you're just wumming. Ireland didn't conceded 50 points even to the English team of the early 2000s. 30-odd seems reasonable though

Recent events ?

France to score 50+ ?

Wumtastic.

There's trouble afoot in the irish camp, I can't say much more than that.

I've put my neck on the line with the 50+ score but I can see it happening, I'd be truly amazed if the french scored less than 30.

[EDDIEB]

There's trouble afoot in the irish camp, I can't say much more than that.

In reality you have nothing to say.

I've put my neck on the line with the 50+ score but I can see it happening, I'd be truly amazed if the french scored less than 30.

Scotland were rubbish and that result flattered the French.
Ireland could prosper in the set piece and upset the whole French gameplan.

[HappyMonday83]

Scotland were rubbish and that result flattered the French.
Ireland could prosper in the set piece and upset the whole French gameplan.

They could, but seen as we were nearly beaten by a poor italian side I wouldn't put money on it.

[EDDIEB]

They could, but seen as we were nearly beaten by a poor italian side I wouldn't put money on it.

Put your money on a French 50+ points score then ?

Oh ye of little faith !!!

[raZor]

Still reckon France will win by 20, although if Ireland stay within 7 points at half time youd never know.

[HappyMonday83]

Put your money on a French 50+ points score then ?

Oh ye of little faith !!!

I have. I put 50 on it against a mate last night.

[Carmona]

I have. I put 50 on it against a mate last night.

Almost right then!

[EDDIEB]

I have. I put 50 on it against a mate last night.

Oh dear.


France 26 Ireland 21.


Great second half performance Ireland nearly beat them at the last,France got the breaks and took their chances well and shaded it.MO'D & Bowe should start against the Scots.P.O'C may be back and Heaslip was immense.


5 line-outs lost by Ireland. For the second week running the Irish pack failed to secure their own ball at crucial moments. It handed the advantage to France, who lost only two throws.
1 penalty conceded by Ireland. A remarkable figure when the average number of penalties conceded in Test rugby is usually eight to nine per team.
174 passes made by Ireland - another unusually high figure, showing the possession Ireland had which was highlighted by having 30 minutes' possession to France's 20.
6 tackles missed by France. A key figure because Ireland lapsed 11 times.
11 carries each for Brian O'Driscoll and Andrew Trimble, showing Ireland's determination to take the attack to France.

B.O'D has been usurped by R.O.G. as Captain ?

[Langer Dan]

Oh dear.


France 26 Ireland 21.


Great second half performance Ireland nearly beat them at the last,France got the breaks and took their chances well and shaded it.MO'D & Bowe should start against the Scots.P.O'C may be back and Heaslip was immense.


5 line-outs lost by Ireland. For the second week running the Irish pack failed to secure their own ball at crucial moments. It handed the advantage to France, who lost only two throws.
1 penalty conceded by Ireland. A remarkable figure when the average number of penalties conceded in Test rugby is usually eight to nine per team.
174 passes made by Ireland - another unusually high figure, showing the possession Ireland had which was highlighted by having 30 minutes' possession to France's 20.
6 tackles missed by France. A key figure because Ireland lapsed 11 times.
11 carries each for Brian O'Driscoll and Andrew Trimble, showing Ireland's determination to take the attack to France.

B.O'D has been usurped by R.O.G. as Captain ?

Looks like it, Eddie would do well to take the Armband off Brian, theres only one leader on that team.

With Jerry in next week and Mcko hopefully starting, the Lineout should be firing again.


Seriously tho, the Munster lineout firing on all cylinders against Wasps and he picks Mal O'Kelly.

Madness.

[EDDIEB]

Looks like it, Eddie would do well to take the Armband off Brian, theres only one leader on that team.

With Jerry in next week and Mcko hopefully starting, the Lineout should be firing again.


Seriously tho, the Munster lineout firing on all cylinders against Wasps and he picks Mal O'Kelly.

Madness.

B.O'D has admitted it anyway after R.O.G. speech Friday night.It will do B.O'D.s game the world of good to be relieved of the captaincy.Paul O'Connell is also due back for Scotland and O'Kelly should be dropped completly.Jackman threw 4 throws away and we were punished.

[Langer Dan]

I doubt they'll risk POC, he hasnt played any meaningful rugby since the WC.
Maybe back for the English match?

Agree with ya about O'Kelly why he's persisting with guys his and Easterby's age is beyond me, Eddie need to start thinking about 2011.

At least Lievremont wasn't afraid to have untried talent on the bench.
The likes of Dowling or Fitzgerald should be making the bench now, not guys like Easterby who are going to be long retired by the time the next world cup comes about.

[EDDIEB]

I doubt they'll risk POC, he hasnt played any meaningful rugby since the WC.
Maybe back for the English match?

Agree with ya about O'Kelly why he's persisting with guys his and Easterby's age is beyond me, Eddie need to start thinking about 2011.

At least Lievremont wasn't afraid to have untried talent on the bench.
The likes of Dowling or Fitzgerald should be making the bench now, not guys like Easterby who are going to be long retired by the time the next world cup comes about.

Scotland are rubbish and its the perfect game to bring in players like Fitzgerald and make changes.EOS will be gone after the 6N more than likely anyway so he will be slow to change.Buckley should have come on a bit earlier also.

[weekender]

Agree with ya about O'Kelly why he's persisting with guys his and Easterby's age is beyond me, Eddie need to start thinking about 2011.


Total guff. If you disagree with O'Sullivan's selection of certain players based on merit, then fair enough, but this 2011 nonsense is pure NOTW "Let's blood the young lions"-style horseshit. Perhaps the coach is operating under the revolutionary principle that the 2008 six nations championship is the more immediate concern?

[Langer Dan]

Total guff. If you disagree with O'Sullivan's selection of certain players based on merit, then fair enough, but this 2011 nonsense is pure NOTW "Let's blood the young lions"-style horseshit. ?

O'Kelly and Easterby have both been shite for their clubs in recent performances and havnt set the world alight for Ireland in a long long time
The fact they're both past it is equally applicable when it comes to slection,
its time for fresher guys who have a future with Ireland to get a chance.

Having a past his sell by date Esterby who wa snever going to feature bar injury on the bench was waste of time.
Perhaps you think mal played a blinder no?

Perhaps the coach is operating under the revolutionary principle that the 2008 six nations championship is the more immediate concern?

Well hes doing a bang up job so far isnt he? Its paying dividends, out of contention after two games.

[weekender]

Perhaps you think mal played a blinder no?


Yes. Fine. That's exactly what I said, yes.


Well hes doing a bang up job so far isnt he? Its paying dividends, out of contention after two games.


This is a magnificently stupid remark on multiple levels.

[Lamps]

anyone saying ROG was anything better than ok needs their head examining. fluffed at least three 5 yard passes which lead to French pressure and or scores. he certainly wasn't the best out half on show.

[EDDIEB]

Heroic efforts are no consolation for frustrated O'Gara

Monday February 11 2008


The dust has long settled on Ireland's fall as Ronan O'Gara slopes wearily into view. Captain and coach had vigorously polished the patina of Ireland's ultimately futile second-half revival merely an hour after the spluttering home side had graciously received the final whistle.


O'Gara's brooks no sympathy with the patois of high spirits in the wake of defeat.

Like Roy Keane down all the days of yore, defeat is defeat. Moral victories are for losers. History records 26-21. Another defeat in France. Away from the foghorns of delusional defiance, O'Gara's steadfast directness is brutally scathing. And, for the sake of this team, a refreshing contrast from the guff trotted out earlier.

"Yeah, it was a game we left behind," says O'Gara, viewing the match through a prism of its grim reality, not ersatz emotion, even so far as to nominate himself as chief culprit.

"First-half turnovers killed us. I gave away seven points so that probably was the difference in the end. I'm so disappointed. We knew if we could keep it to 13 at half-time, we'd beat them.

"But what did we go in at half-time -- 20 points down? -- that's a big ask, I knew we'd have a patch. Still, saying that we still left one or two tries out there in the second-half. It's disappointing."

Theme

That's the recurring theme. No spin, no bulls***. True, he alludes to the team's quality and character, not least his own, but not at the expense of inconvenient truths.

"Has it been a long time since I've had such a satisfying performance? For Ireland? A long time yeah. A lot happens in sport and you can only look after your own situations.

"In Munster I'm used to winning and I expected to win today. So from a personal point of view I'm disappointed, from a team point of view I'm disappointed. I hope fellahs aren't happy with where they are inside there. At the end of the day we were beaten again in Paris, that's the bottom line."

While his captain spoke of how the team owed the coach and team a performance, it was left to O'Gara to address the surprisingly large travelling support -- barely acknowledged by the Irish players at the final whistle -- who had dared to return to the scene of so much financial and emotional heartache just five months before. His rousing words to the team on Friday night reminded his team-mates that their integrity was on the line. And it still is.

"Yeah I just spoke, listen you have to keep some things quiet in terms of motivation for the team and that's what it was," he says. "We're trying to get credibility back in the Irish team and so far we haven't done that.

"Today we took a step in the right direction but this team needs a win. It's been a long team since this team played well and all I asked for was to be honest. I thought we were honest today so that was the way the boys responded. But we need to kick on though."

And again while some talk was of how Ireland may have won the match had there been another five minutes, O'Gara merely translated the reality of the game's final play. A Munster team, you feel, especially perhaps with Peter Stringer adding his experience, would have driven Saturday's side over the line. O'Gara, though, doesn't deal in ifs and buts.

"It's a big if. We were aware of the clock. We should never let that ball go out there at the end though. That's a bad mistake in terms of inexperience.

"We just have to keep hammering away you know. You're not really going to score out wide in the last play of the game unless you've an overlap. You've got to keep hammering away in the forwards ... " His voice trails off.

One almost feels it incumbent to inject a note of optimism in proceedings, avert the ruthless navel-gazing, and interject that perhaps the good parts of an indifferent display might prove a springboard for this Irish team.

"In the first-half we played well but we gave away a few soft tries," he says. "I thought we played well the whole game. But at 10 points down, we might have had a chance. Not 20 though. They tired in the second-half, they got incredibly tired but giving away those soft tries at this level kills you.

"Were there parallels with two years ago. I think we were 40 points down then. Clerc's try before half-time was poor from us, turnovers killing us. I don't think they played exceptional rugby.

"In fairness Heymans and Clerc are phenomenal players. They scored 20 points between them and you have to admire that quality. Like Ronaldo at United, quality players you know.

"But I don't think from where I am and from when I've played in an Irish team, that I'd be happy with a morale-boosting performance. I play sport to win and that's all."

That bottom line again. "We're our own worst enemies at times and we have to believe in ourselves," he adds defiantly. "We have some quality players in our team and it's ourselves holding us back. We have to go out there and perform. It's not about potential. The players are there and we need to kick on."

A subtler change in the Irish game-plan was a greater appreciation of attacking depth, a concept publicly decried by the coach before but now the players, led by Brian O'Driscoll last Tuesday, are attempting to dilute a flat alignment which is creaking the attack more often than cracking defences.

"Brian's had a big issue on that," he agrees. "We get too flat on our alignment but it was great to see Brian attacking the ball today. He likes the outside break but he's a bull of a man, he took it on really well and demanded the ball and showed how good a player he is. Absolute quality, he kept them guessing."

Just as this Irish team keeps their supporters on their toes. Opinion is still divided amongst the public; the jury is still out on whether Saturday represents a turning point or an aberration amidst steady decline. As Philip Browne might put it, Ireland need to ensure this was not a blip.

"Absolutely," O'Gara avers. "That's the challenge, you're hopeful that's the way. But you're never sure are you?" The guessing game will continue for another while yet.

[HappyMonday83]

Well, as much as it pains me. Hats off to the ghoys. The first half went as I expected and in the second les bleu took their foot off the gas and arland played some alright rugby. Arlands performance has been vastly over hyped. I think some people need to take a step back. The ghoys got spanked by and experimental French side in the first half. It was only when the french eased off and fielded their under-21 team that the ghoys began to show something.

[HappyMonday83]

anyone saying ROG was anything better than ok needs their head examining. fluffed at least three 5 yard passes which lead to French pressure and or scores. he certainly wasn't the best out half on show.

You're not wrong!

ROG did nothing special. He kicked well out of had, but not much else. Even a poor sir johnny showed more attacking flair yesterday than ROG did.

[EDDIEB]

Well, as much as it pains me. Hats off to the ghoys. The first half went as I expected and in the second les bleu took their foot off the gas and arland played some alright rugby. Arlands performance has been vastly over hyped. I think some people need to take a step back. The ghoys got spanked by and experimental French side in the first half. It was only when the french eased off and fielded their under-21 team that the ghoys began to show something.

Zero hype today - quite the opposite in the broadsheets and TV punditry yesterday.

There would be hype if they actually won the game.

Best half of rugby for Ireland in 9 games and its only a start thats all.

Bigger tests to come against Wales and England.

[HappyMonday83]

Zero hype today - quite the opposite in the broadsheets and TV punditry yesterday.

There would be hype if they actually won the game.

Best half of rugby for Ireland in 9 games and its only a start thats all.

Bigger tests to come against Wales and England.

Very true. I wouldn't say the ghoys have the monkey of their back yet.

[EDDIEB]

Very true. I wouldn't say the ghoys have the monkey of their back yet.

EOS is the monkey.

Backs coach required ASAP plenty of players coming through for thr future - time to experiment against Scotland a bit.

[HappyMonday83]

EOS is the monkey.

Backs coach required ASAP plenty of players coming through for thr future - time to experiment against Scotland a bit.

Loading the team with young fellas won't work. Drip-feeding them into the team is the only way to go.

[EDDIEB]

Loading the team with young fellas won't work. Drip-feeding them into the team is the only way to go.

Absolutly as the nucleus of a good side there with the experienced players & the impact of players like Heaslip proves that.Bring the talent through but the game against Scotland is an opportunity to do so at least on the bench.
Great pack + Buckley coming through.Backs need a shake up as Denis Hickies speed is badly missed.

[HappyMonday83]

Absolutly as the nucleus of a good side there with the experienced players & the impact of players like Heaslip proves that.Bring the talent through but the game against Scotland is an opportunity to do so at least on the bench.
Great pack + Buckley coming through.Backs need a shake up as Denis Hickies speed is badly missed.

I'd start sexton against the scots, bring on ROG if you have to.

[EDDIEB]

I'd start sexton against the scots, bring on ROG if you have to.

Unlikely as they still are in with a chance of winning the championship.

[Teknique]

I've never seen an Irish pack bully a french pack like that , ever....

[HappyMonday83]

I've never seen an Irish pack bully a french pack like that , ever....

The ghoys "bullied" a very young and inexperienced french pack, nothing to be proud of.

[EDDIEB]

The ghoys "bullied" a very young and inexperienced french pack, nothing to be proud of.

What should the pack have done ? Take a breather ? Stop trying to get back into contention to win it at the last gasp ? A converted try even ?

Showed great team spirit to get so close - You cannot even let your mind think about the other side.

Lets submit as Lievremont has brought on a few new players ??????

You can only play whats put in front of you pride should be taken from a positive performance and the stats prove that but the scoreboard is where it counts.

French pack talent is in decline due to imported Argentinian players etc.

Its only the early beginnings of a new Irish side which will only really be tested after a new coach is installed and set-up improved.
Good performance against a potentially the explosive French backs but our errors flattered them slightly which they exploited to their full potential.

Pace badly required on the wing EOS or it will be the same result next year.

[HappyMonday83]

What should the pack have done ? Take a breather ? Stop trying to get back into contention to win it at the last gasp ? A converted try even ?

Showed great team spirit to get so close - You cannot even let your mind think about the other side.

Lets submit as Lievremont has brought on a few new players ??????

You can only play whats put in front of you pride should be taken from a positive performance and the stats prove that but the scoreboard is where it counts.

French pack talent is in decline due to imported Argentinian players etc.

Its only the early beginnings of a new Irish side which will only really be tested after a new coach is installed and set-up improved.
Good performance against a potentially the explosive French backs but our errors flattered them slightly which they exploited to their full potential.

Pace badly required on the wing EOS or it will be the same result next year.
I said nothing of the sort. People need to take a step back and realize for much of the second half arland were playing almost the french U-21 side who'd already taken the game as won. Plus the rugby we played wasn't anywhere near the standard of the comeback two years ago.

[EDDIEB]

I said nothing of the sort. People need to take a step back and realize for much of the second half arland were playing almost the french U-21 side who'd already taken the game as won. Plus the rugby we played wasn't anywhere near the standard of the comeback two years ago.

They were totally hockeyed 2 years ago totally out of it and demolished.

Its easy to cut loose and play an expansive game when you have nothing to lose.

This has only almost taken Ireland back to their potential 9 games ago.

A long long way to recovery just yet.

[jd26]

I dunno if pace on the wing was the problem. When you have two players runing at you when you're defending as a winger, there's an 80% chance they'll score. Denis Hickie seemed the master of those situations, but what happened on Saturday I'd expect to see from most international standard wingers.

The real question is where were Leamy and Dempsey who should have been the cover for the wingers. I think in one of the tries, Dempsey was fourth man on the scene when he should have been second. Leamy is still young enough that he could work on speed. It would probably take working with an athletics coach rather than a rugby one and that isn't going to happen in the current Irish set up. Dempsey has always been slow and isn't going to get faster now, but other than Geordan Murphy he has no competition for his place.

[Rebel Yell]

The turnaround in the second half was pleasing enough, considering we wereon the verge of a hammering by Clerc...

Still though, our back movements look laboured in comparison to the French...our backline of a couple of years ago may well have done enough to win this game...

Good to see Mick O'D do so well when he came on...that pack is crying out for Cullen or a rejuvenated POC to lead it...Buckley, Heaslip and co offer hope for the coming years...I'd like to see Buckley coming on earlier in the remaining games to give him some decent time to get used to this level as he will be the incumbent in his position with Munster and Ireland when Hayes is finally allowed some rest...

[EDDIEB]

The turnaround in the second half was pleasing enough, considering we wereon the verge of a hammering by Clerc...

Still though, our back movements look laboured in comparison to the French...our backline of a couple of years ago may well have done enough to win this game...

Good to see Mick O'D do so well when he came on...that pack is crying out for Cullen or a rejuvenated POC to lead it...Buckley, Heaslip and co offer hope for the coming years...I'd like to see Buckley coming on earlier in the remaining games to give him some decent time to get used to this level as he will be the incumbent in his position with Munster and Ireland when Hayes is finally allowed some rest...

Exactly a backs coach and players with pace required - Tommy Bowe etc

[HappyMonday83]

They were totally hockeyed 2 years ago totally out of it and demolished.

Its easy to cut loose and play an expansive game when you have nothing to lose.

This has only almost taken Ireland back to their potential 9 games ago.

A long long way to recovery just yet.

They were flogged on saturday aswell.

[EDDIEB]

They were flogged on saturday aswell.

France have been beating Ireland in Paris for years.

Your 50+ points prediction did not happen and Ireland were within a score of winning at the end.

Glass empty or half full ?

Look to the positives.

[HappyMonday83]

France have been beating Ireland in Paris for years.

Your 50+ points prediction did not happen and Ireland were within a score of winning at the end.

Glass empty or half full ?

Look to the positives.

It was an improved arish performance, but the only way they could go was up.