doug howlett has arrived (and in the nick of time too)

[liam2me]

seeing as dowling, who has been on fire this season, is out for 6 weeks+.

http://munsterrugby.ie/images/news/doug-with-declan(2).jpg

http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00167/doughowlett_167105t. jpg

[Langer Dan]

is there any chance youd stop posting About rugby? Seriously like, have you ever even been to a Munster match?

[liam2me]

is there any chance youd stop posting About rugby? Seriously like, have you ever even been to a Munster match?
a bit rich coming from you

[Langer Dan]

nicely dodged.

You're rugby posts are manna from heaven to the SFI,(re; This is fucking excellant...), would ya ever just keep yer trap shut...

[liam2me]

nicely dodged.

You're rugby posts are manna from heaven to the SFI,(re; This is fucking excellant...), would ya ever just keep yer trap shut...
what do you care? i thought you gave up when the wheels fell off the bandwagon against llanelli last year

[Langer Dan]

Were you at the Llanelli match last year foolah?

Didn think so.
Sorry now numbskull but seeing as you're merely an armchair supporter I couldnt really give a tinkers toss about your 'this is excelaant' ramblings.

Stop posting about rugby its cringeworthy

[liam2me]

Were you at the Llanelli match last year foolah?

Didn think so.
Sorry now numbskull but seeing as you're merely an armchair supporter I couldnt really give a tinkers toss about your 'this is excelaant' ramblings.

Stop posting about rugby its cringeworthy
actually i was at the llanelli game last year in fact i should say games, as i was at the ML game in wales too. actually have you even heard of the magners league? most bandwagoners haven't. i bet you never even laced your boots to get on a rugby field and play never mind go to your local club and support in the pissing rain

[Langer Dan]

actually, actually, actually, here la buy yerself a thesaurus , tis well worth it.

Liam seriously just keep the trap shut, theres a good lad, you make the rest of us look bad with your shambolic posts.

[liam2me]

actually, actually, actually, here la buy yerself a thesaurus , tis well worth it.

Liam seriously just keep the trap shut, theres a good lad, you make the rest of us look bad with your shambolic posts.
just as i thought, 100% bandwagoner

[Langer Dan]

oh yawn, you goin to clermont? You ever play Munster cup rugby?

sorry fucko, lining out for the freshers doesnt count.

[liam2me]

oh yawn, you goin to clermont? You ever play Munster cup rugby?

sorry fucko, lining out for the freshers doesnt count.
nope, can't afford to go to france this year, + i have exams the week after. nope, never played munster cup, but i guess you don't know that there are other competitions for those of us who didn't go to rugby schools and played at club level.

have you ever got off your arse and coached a bit? have you made any attempts to get your coaching badges? have you started for your uni's first XV for every match in a season, injuries aside?

didn't think so

[Langer Dan]

yawn, sorry lad but lining out for piebald technical college in Lahndon doesnt cut the mustard, I go to my fair share of magniers league matches in Muzzer and I go to as many cup Games as I can get tickets to, if you're too lazy/cheap to go on the road with munster then dont have the cheek to question other supporters credentials.

Proud out of lining out with bums xv, sad biy, very sad.:)

[liam2me]

yawn, sorry lad but lining out for piebald technical college in Lahndon doesnt cut the mustard, I go to my fair share of magniers league matches in Muzzer and I go to as many cup Games as I can get tickets to, if you're too lazy/cheap to go on the road with munster then dont have the cheek to question other supporters credentials.

Proud out of lining out with bums xv, sad biy, very sad.:)

and there it is, the coup de gras to you're own argument, only spending money to go to the big games, i wonder how often you've been to wales or scotland for ML games, not much i would say. so you go to senior cup games? are you so stupid to not realise that i was just taking the piss out of you for only going to senior cup games and not the lesser matches? FFS i am truly dealing with a prize donkey

say what ya want now, i've had my laugh, you've just proven yourself that you are a bandwagoner, i need say no more

self-pwned twice in as many hours

oh dear :lol!:

[Langer Dan]

Liam no ones goin to take notes from an armchair supporter. Just shut up about munster. Its embarrassing . You know less about rugby than you do about soccer and thats quite an accomplishment:-)

[cit_gym_rat]

listen to the two of ye - ffs take it to the morons forum

[liam2me]

Liam no ones goin to take notes from an armchair supporter. Just shut up about munster. Its embarrassing . You know less about rugby than you do about soccer and thats quite an accomplishment:-)
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzz, i'm going to take 'steroids' advice and leave you to it, idiots will always be idiots

[Langer Dan]

I thought liverpool were man utd. Argentina beating france is effing brilliant for ireland. Liam 2007- the special one.

[mirps]

is there any chance youd stop posting About rugby? Seriously like, have you ever even been to a Munster match?

May I just say, you sound like a complete dickhead/bully. If you're just trying to WUM, fair enough (perhaps), otherwise you're a tool. What is so wrong with the thread?

[POL]

fight fight fight!!!

[Rebel Yell]

Time for some people on here to mature...

[nemo7]

ya I agree with all yer comments on Doug Howlett great player

[Carmona]

The funny thing about this thread is it started off with a good point. the timing of Howlett's arrival is indeed splendid, as Liam said, with Dowling out for a while. Then the two lads start slagging off their rugby credentials and to be fair neither covered himself in glory.

What's the story with Dougie? Is he in shape to play, will he play in HC??

[mirps]

The funny thing about this thread is it started off with a good point. the timing of Howlett's arrival is indeed splendid, as Liam said, with Dowling out for a while. Then the two lads start slagging off their rugby credentials and to be fair neither covered himself in glory.

What's the story with Dougie? Is he in shape to play, will he play in HC??

They reckon he'll play on friday against Ulster. Ulster aren't exactly flying at moment, but Ravenhill should be good place to break him in.

[Langer Dan]

Congrats mirps yer a gayer. Ye set a date yet?

[liam2me]

They reckon he'll play on friday against Ulster. Ulster aren't exactly flying at moment, but Ravenhill should be good place to break him in.
tis better then his first game being away to clermont. apparently he's fit and chomping at the bit to get playing, especially as he wasn't in the 22 against france and there was fuck all he could do from the stands. not happy about dowling being out, he's been on fire so far, even some of the nordie boys were saying he should be capped although i'm not sure about that myself. payne'll never be able to retire at this rate

[mirps]

Congrats mirps yer a gayer. Ye set a date yet?

Summer sometime. I'm just hoping it doesn't rain.

[legend76]

Does anyone think that munster won't beat the Brits tomorrow night???

[cit_gym_rat]

Does anyone think that munster won't beat the Brits tomorrow night???
in ravenhill its definitly a possibility

[HappyMonday83]

I'm a better munster supporter than you. na na na na.
No, I'm a better munster supporter, I even gave ROG a handjob in riordans once.


http://www.fallacyfiles.org/Bandwagon.jpg

[cantankerous bastard]

The funny thing about this thread is it started off with a good point. the timing of Howlett's arrival is indeed splendid, as Liam said, with Dowling out for a while. Then the two lads start slagging off their rugby credentials and to be fair neither covered himself in glory.

What's the story with Dougie? Is he in shape to play, will he play in HC??

I agree entirely, if Liam ignored the stupid swipes instead of descending into cock waggling he might actually have held the upper ground for once.

Anyway...shame the game is cancelled, I cant wait to see how the latest kiwi fits into the fold....clearly Carney is already enjoying breaking him in...

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/images/news/howlett-training.jpg

[STEVIEG]

Does anyone think that munster won't beat the Brits tomorrow night???

You can quote me on this

There is absolutely no chance of Munster winning this game tonight

[HappyMonday83]

I agree entirely, if Liam ignored the stupid swipes instead of descending into cock waggling he might actually have held the upper ground for once.

Anyway...shame the game is cancelled, I cant wait to see how the latest kiwi fits into the fold....clearly Carney is already enjoying breaking him in...

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/images/news/howlett-training.jpg

From what I heard it was like the second coming of jesus in charleville on wednesday when the money grabber was training. There were photographers chasing him up and down the sideline as he was prancing about.

[liam2me]

From what I heard it was like the second coming of jesus in charleville on wednesday when the money grabber was training. There were photographers chasing him up and down the sideline as he was prancing about.
thought you had decided to retire from rugby threads after the last few beatings you took, fair play for getting back up on the horse

[Lee Bushwacker]

Liam no ones goin to take notes from an armchair supporter. Just shut up about munster. Its embarrassing . You know less about rugby than you do about soccer and thats quite an accomplishment:-)

:D
EXCELLENT POST L.D. !!! ;)

[pudgee]

You can quote me on this

There is absolutely no chance of Munster winning this game tonight

Good call

[HappyMonday83]

A serious question.

Why did munster buy howlett? he's probably on the most money out of anyone on the team, all for a player who on a good day might see the ball 3 or 4 times during a match. The would have being better advised to spend that money on a good prop. Munster is a forwards team, and yet their pack isn't all that good.

[Sound]

A serious question.

Why did munster buy howlett? he's probably on the most money out of anyone on the team, all for a player who on a good day might see the ball 3 or 4 times during a match. The would have being better advised to spend that money on a good prop. Munster is a forwards team, and yet their pack isn't all that good.

They do alright up front and they've been taking brickbats about the backs for years now so they've bought to improve that side of it. They've also got great hopes for Buckley.

[mirps]

From what I heard it was like the second coming of jesus in charleville on wednesday when the money grabber was training. There were photographers chasing him up and down the sideline as he was prancing about.

They were training in Charleville? :confused:

[HappyMonday83]

They do alright up front and they've been taking brickbats about the backs for years now so they've bought to improve that side of it. They've also got great hopes for Buckley.
Just like the pack did "alright" against leicester last season?
They were training in Charleville? :confused:

It's half-way between cork and limerick.

[mirps]

Just like the pack did "alright" against leicester last season?


It's half-way between cork and limerick.

Thanks the geography lesson, ;) . It's just I read they were playing golf there. Do they train there often so? Thought they rotated between Cork and Limerick ...

[liam2me]

A serious question.

Why did munster buy howlett? he's probably on the most money out of anyone on the team, all for a player who on a good day might see the ball 3 or 4 times during a match. The would have being better advised to spend that money on a good prop. Munster is a forwards team, and yet their pack isn't all that good.
out of interest, how much of munster have you seen this season? how about last season and the season before?

[Sound]

Just like the pack did "alright" against leicester last season?


It's half-way between cork and limerick.


That's one game old boy. Dont be so concerned, I'm sure they'll address it in due course and you can wear your jersey with pride.

:0)

[HappyMonday83]

Thanks the geography lesson, ;) . It's just I read they were playing golf there. Do they train there often so? Thought they rotated between Cork and Limerick ...

The golf club is across the road from the rugby club.

[HappyMonday83]

out of interest, how much of munster have you seen this season? how about last season and the season before?

This season I seen all their HC games and most of their ML stuff and for the past couple of weeks i've watched them training.

[liam2me]

This season I seen all their HC games and most of their ML stuff and for the past couple of weeks i've watched them training.
and how about the last 2 seasons?

[liam2me]

They were training in Charleville? :confused:
http://munsterrugby.ie/19_7662.php

[HappyMonday83]

That's one game old boy. Dont be so concerned, I'm sure they'll address it in due course and you can wear your jersey with pride.

:0)

That "one" game happens nearly every season. Munster have pretty much one tactic and that's to kick in the front door. Even the dogs on the street know that if you match munster up front you'll beat them. Last season they tried to mix it up by attempting some "blue magic" and we all know how that worked out. About as convincing as an aul fella in a dress.

[HappyMonday83]

and how about the last 2 seasons?

About the same except for the training.

[Sound]

That "one" game happens nearly every season. Munster have pretty much one tactic and that's to kick in the front door. Even the dogs on the street know that if you match munster up front you'll beat them. Last season they tried to mix it up by attempting some "blue magic" and we all know how that worked out. About as convincing as an aul fella in a dress.

So.

They have had one tactic hitherto. They buy some backline quality to try to change it up and you're asking me why?

Go get a coffee.

[liam2me]

That "one" game happens nearly every season. Munster have pretty much one tactic and that's to kick in the front door. Even the dogs on the street know that if you match munster up front you'll beat them. Last season they tried to mix it up by attempting some "blue magic" and we all know how that worked out. About as convincing as an aul fella in a dress.
so you agree, up until last season they were a 10 man team in attack, last year they tried something new, and although it got them to the QF, it did backfire (to those who don't see the bigger picture that is)?

right then, seeing as you consider yourself to be knowledgeable, do you not think that last season was decided early on, seeing as the HEC had finally been won and the pressure slightly off, to be used as the perfect opportunity to try to build on the 10 man game and try to add expansive rugby, which this season, seems to be starting to pay off, even if the transition hasn't yet been completed?

[EDDIEB]

This season I seen all their HC games and most of their ML stuff and for the past couple of weeks i've watched them training.

Yet you still have not got a clue ?

Says it all really.

[HappyMonday83]

So.

They have had one tactic hitherto. They buy some backline quality to try to change it up and you're asking me why?

Go get a coffee.

That all sounds good in theory, but as I said howlett will be lucky to see quality ball a couple of times during a match. All i'm saying is given the brand of rugby munster play they would have been better served buying a world class prop to replace horan.

[Sound]

That all sounds good in theory, but as I said howlett will be lucky to see quality ball a couple of times during a match. All i'm saying is given the brand of rugby munster play they would have been better served buying a world class prop to replace horan.

Well it looks like they've gone down the Harlem Globetrotting Barbarians route.

We'll all just have to learn to get along with this new free-spirited & mercurial Munster.

PS. Buckley is actually a decent prospect.

[liam2me]

so you agree, up until last season they were a 10 man team in attack, last year they tried something new, and although it got them to the QF, it did backfire (to those who don't see the bigger picture that is)?

right then, seeing as you consider yourself to be knowledgeable, do you not think that last season was decided early on, seeing as the HEC had finally been won and the pressure slightly off, to be used as the perfect opportunity to try to build on the 10 man game and try to add expansive rugby, which this season, seems to be starting to pay off, even if the transition hasn't yet been completed?
bump, well HM?

[EDDIEB]

That all sounds good in theory, but as I said howlett will be lucky to see quality ball a couple of times during a match. All i'm saying is given the brand of rugby munster play they would have been better served buying a world class prop to replace horan.

So "Beef up" the pack (which they have plenty of cover this season).
Horan just needs to work on actually staying on the pitch.

Never change style of play and offer zero threat or options out on the wing ?

Nonsense.

[HappyMonday83]

so you agree, up until last season they were a 10 man team in attack, last year they tried something new, and although it got them to the QF, it did backfire (to those who don't see the bigger picture that is)?

right then, seeing as you consider yourself to be knowledgeable, do you not think that last season was decided early on, seeing as the HEC had finally been won and the pressure slightly off, to be used as the perfect opportunity to try to build on the 10 man game and try to add expansive rugby, which this season, seems to be starting to pay off, even if the transition hasn't yet been completed?

I doubt the transition will ever be completed. So far this season they have been a lot more reluctant to flash it out the backs, the ball rarely goes further than tipoki and the running is fairly predictable. Will howlett change this? I doubt it, plus stringer is playing some awful rugby at the minute and you're not going to cut teams open when your out-half is always picking the ball off his boot-laces.

[Sound]

I doubt the transition will ever be completed. So far this season they have been a lot more reluctant to flash it out the backs, the ball rarely goes further than tipoki and the running is fairly predictable. Will howlett change this? I doubt it, plus stringer is playing some awful rugby at the minute and you're not going to cut teams open when your out-half is always picking the ball off his boot-laces.

So having someone as good as Howlett on the wing would have no impact on that reluctance?

Behave.

[BangorFeen]

Well it looks like they've gone down the Harlem Globetrotting Barbarians route.

We'll all just have to learn to get along with this new free-spirited & mercurial Munster.

PS. Buckley is actually a decent prospect.
He's more than that IMO. In fact, I'd have dropped Horan to the bench long ago in favour of either Hurley or Buckley (Buckley could be one of those very valuable sorts that can play TH or LH)

[liam2me]

I doubt the transition will ever be completed. So far this season they have been a lot more reluctant to flash it out the backs, the ball rarely goes further than tipoki and the running is fairly predictable. Will howlett change this? I doubt it, plus stringer is playing some awful rugby at the minute and you're not going to cut teams open when your out-half is always picking the ball off his boot-laces.
really? so bringing in the players required to help the transition will lead it to not being completed? right, what world do you live in? we may not win the HEC this year, and i would fully accept that, as i did last season, as long as we are working towards something, which it seems like we very much are.

give it a couple of seasons and i bet munster will win it again as they are developing into much more then a 10 man team, and with buckley, ryan, o'sullivan and others coming through in the pack the future looks very bright

[HappyMonday83]

So "Beef up" the pack (which they have plenty of cover this season).
Horan just needs to work on actually staying on the pitch.

Never change style of play and offer zero threat or options out on the wing ?

Nonsense.

"forwards win game, backs decide by how much"

As it currently stands munsters front row are far from being world beaters. Hayes is pushing on and the less said about horan the better. Sure buckley looks like a player but he's proven nothing yet. Even if he turned out to be a great player they are still a man short of a good front row. For a team that bases it's game on a big pack, that's not ideal.

[BangorFeen]

I doubt the transition will ever be completed. So far this season they have been a lot more reluctant to flash it out the backs, the ball rarely goes further than tipoki and the running is fairly predictable. Will howlett change this? I doubt it, plus stringer is playing some awful rugby at the minute and you're not going to cut teams open when your out-half is always picking the ball off his boot-laces.
Um, this smay be seen as overly pedantic but anybody from 9 out is in fact a 'back'. Even if you include the halves (as oft seems appropriate with Munster) as quasi pack members then the centres are most certainly backs. I'd view a situation where the centre pairing in red have something more than a peripheral role as a development to be welcomed wouldn't you? Neither Tipoki not Mafi's running could be said to be "pedestrian" and Payne is exerting an influence that puts even his hitherto persistent good form to shame. Up until his injury Dowling was impressing most commentators with his sheer appetite for work and for taking his game to the next level.

Now, that's not to say there isn't the nub of a point in there for sure. Replacing a winger of John Kelly's calibre (pound for pound our most intelligent player IMO for many years) isn't easy and to be fair Rua 'n' Larry have been gravely guilty of arsing things up for Carney. Time out of mind he's been made to look a chump by a hospital pass in his own 22 and more or less told, "g'wan Mr. Rugby League Bigshot, make us 40 yards!" or has received the ball the width of a credit card between him and the touchline. If we're to get the best out of Carney then that needs to change. On a positive note apparently he and Doug linked up very well in a "Probables v Possibles" training game in Charleville on Sunday - two tries apiece

[liam2me]

"forwards win game, backs decide by how much"

As it currently stands munsters front row are far from being world beaters. Hayes is pushing on and the less said about horan the better. Sure buckley looks like a player but he's proven nothing yet. Even if he turned out to be a great player they are still a man short of a good front row. For a team that bases it's game on a big pack, that's not ideal.
so you don't rate hayes then (seeing as, if buckley was proping with him and flannery, we'd still be a man short) ? funny that those who are paid to know about rugby do,

http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3822_2987622 ,00.html

[HappyMonday83]

So having someone as good as Howlett on the wing would have no impact on that reluctance?

Behave.

really? so bringing in the players required to help the transition will lead it to not being completed? right, what world do you live in? we may not win the HEC this year, and i would fully accept that, as i did last season, as long as we are working towards something, which it seems like we very much are.

give it a couple of seasons and i bet munster will win it again as they are developing into much more then a 10 man team, and with buckley, ryan, o'sullivan and others coming through in the pack the future looks very bright

Of course howlett will improve the backline, but I think munster would have being better off sorting out the pack. I seem to recall a lot of the jocks on here talking about how good dowling has being playing, so why did he need to be replaced?
I have a feeling the signing of howlett has more to do with selling jerseys than it doe's to improving the backs.

[BangorFeen]

"forwards win game, backs decide by how much"

As it currently stands munsters front row are far from being world beaters. Hayes is pushing on and the less said about horan the better. Sure buckley looks like a player but he's proven nothing yet. Even if he turned out to be a great player they are still a man short of a good front row. For a team that bases it's game on a big pack, that's not ideal.
Hayes Fla Buckley would enough to give even the best front rows pause for thought.

Hayes actually looks fitter now than he did in 2004 or 2005. Naturally however there's only so many miles left on the clock. Buckley will do fine at either TH or LH. Darragh Hurley, Timmy Ryan and Seán Cronin would all appear to have what it takes, certainly at ML level in Hurley's case at HEC level.

I cannot understand DK's reluctance to introduce him on a more consistent basis this year (I think his only game time was against Viadana...) especially considering how much of liability Marcus has been

[liam2me]

Of course howlett will improve the backline, but I think munster would have being better off sorting out the pack. I seem to recall a lot of the jocks on here talking about how good dowling has being playing, so why did he need to be replaced?
I have a feeling the signing of howlett has more to do with selling jerseys than it doe's to improving the backs.
dowling being replaced? since when? howlett was brought in to replace the retiring payne, he's only on the wing due to injury, what munster team have you been watching?

dear oh dear, you're exposing yourself in a rugby thread yet again

[BangorFeen]

Of course howlett will improve the backline, but I think munster would have being better off sorting out the pack. I seem to recall a lot of the jocks on here talking about how good dowling has being playing, so why did he need to be replaced?
I have a feeling the signing of howlett has more to do with selling jerseys than it doe's to improving the backs.
Selling jerseys? Come now, they were selling those hand over fist before notions of Doug even taking a holiday in Banna were any more than a misty though in Pat Geraghty's mind.

As an aside - Howlett can cover either wing OR fullback. It would also be useful to note that Shaun Payne, our soon-to-be outgoing FB, was also initially signed as a wing... There is room for both Dowling and Howlett in a Munster HEC XV

[EDDIEB]

"forwards win game, backs decide by how much"

As it currently stands munsters front row are far from being world beaters. Hayes is pushing on and the less said about horan the better. Sure buckley looks like a player but he's proven nothing yet. Even if he turned out to be a great player they are still a man short of a good front row. For a team that bases it's game on a big pack, that's not ideal.

Hayes is having a great season.

Buckley is great cover and massive prospect for the future.

Munster need and have needed options out wide for a long time.

Any other great ideas ?

[BangorFeen]

dowling being replaced? since when? howlett was brought in to replace the retiring payne, he's only on the wing due to injury, what munster team have you been watching?

dear oh dear, you're exposing yourself in a rugby thread yet again
Liam. Not strictly true. I should imagine the fact that DH wants to play wing and it's certainly a position that he is more familiar with would play a part and it may well transpire that Dowling suffers for his inclusion. My gut instinct however says that going forward, we may see him gravitate towards 15

[legend76]

HM83 getting Pwned by the Jocks, whatever next ????


P.S. Credit where it's due Liam, you've made some very well constructed points here

[liam2me]

Selling jerseys? Come now, they were selling those hand over fist before notions of Doug even taking a holiday in Banna were any more than a misty though in Pat Geraghty's mind.

As an aside - Howlett can cover either wing OR fullback. It would also be useful to note that Shaun Payne, our soon-to-be outgoing FB, was also initially signed as a wing... There is room for both Dowling and Howlett in a Munster HEC XV
the backrow when all are fit will look something like this;

9. Strings
10. ROG
11. Dowling
12. Mafi
13. Tipoki
14. Carney
15. Howlett

defensively and offensively thats some back line

[HappyMonday83]

so you don't rate hayes then (seeing as, if buckley was proping with him and flannery, we'd still be a man short) ? funny that those who are paid to know about rugby do,

http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3822_2987622 ,00.html

Let's put all our eggs in the basket of a prop in his mid-thirties. Nothing can go wrong there.

[liam2me]

Liam. Not strictly true. I should imagine the fact that DH wants to play wing and it's certainly a position that he is more familiar with would play a part and it may well transpire that Dowling suffers for his inclusion. My gut instinct however says that going forward, we may see him gravitate towards 15
i can't see howlett playing on the wing once dowling is fit bar some massive dip in form, howlett was signed with one thing in mind, a good replacement for payne who was supposed to retire at the start of the season except there was no able replacement, howlett has already admitted he will more the likely be at FB

"It doesn't really bother me which position I play in for Munster - wing or fullback - because I am comfortable in both."

http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3822_3022855 ,00.html

[BangorFeen]

Let's put all our eggs in the basket of a prop in his mid-thirties. Nothing can go wrong there.
That might be a valid criticism were it the case. The IRFU invested big money in in the close season (he was on the verge of signing for Bath) to ensure that we have a credible alternative going forward (Buckley is 27). The problem, if there is to be one, will be at loose head and the seeming stall in Darragh Hurley's progression

[HappyMonday83]

Let's face facts here. Hayes is nearly 35, how long more do you think he'll play for? Plus I think we all know that he hasn't got a full 80 minutes in him any more.

[liam2me]

Let's put all our eggs in the basket of a prop in his mid-thirties. Nothing can go wrong there.
who says that all the eggs are in one basket? we have Pucciarello as a proven HEC replacement as well as Hurley and McGovern should we lose the 4 props ahead of them.

you're not doing too well here, might just want to leave before its 3 in a row

[BangorFeen]

i can't see howlett playing on the wing once dowling is fit bar some massive dip in form, howlett was signed with one thing in mind, a good replacement for payne who was supposed to retire at the start of the season except there was no able replacement, howlett has already admitted he will more the likely be at FB

"It doesn't really bother me which position I play in for Munster - wing or fullback - because I am comfortable in both."

http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3822_3022855 ,00.html
Yes but the quality of his play at wing has been much, much better (just ask any Kiwi where they'd start him). That isn't the same thing as saying he'd be shit at FB BTW. If we are to get the most from our considerable investment then it makes sense to give him his head in the position he is most comfortable with. At very least it means he can carry good form with him to a new position. My suspcion however is that Payne may well stay on for the rest of the season. He seems to be enjoying his rugby and while he's not as sharp as he once was in defence, Tipoki and Mafi are giving him all sorts of lovely lines to run and one thingg Shaun could be said to suffer from is a grá for tries (put it this way, no one is receiving the ball from him 10 yards out...)

Doug at 11 for now and until injury retirement dictates otherwise I suspect.

[HappyMonday83]

i can't see howlett playing on the wing once dowling is fit bar some massive dip in form, howlett was signed with one thing in mind, a good replacement for payne who was supposed to retire at the start of the season except there was no able replacement, howlett has already admitted he will more the likely be at FB

"It doesn't really bother me which position I play in for Munster - wing or fullback - because I am comfortable in both."

http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3822_3022855 ,00.html

Answer me this liam, if munster were looking for a replacement for payne why didn't they buy a specialist full-back instead of a winger who can fill-in the position.

[BangorFeen]

Let's face facts here. Hayes is nearly 35, how long more do you think he'll play for? Plus I think we all know that he hasn't got a full 80 minutes in him any more.
That may be the case in the near future but as of yet his performances would suggest otherwise (Llanelli for example?). In any event, take a look at Mario Ledesma? More or less of one age with Hayes and playing the rugby of his life for both club and country. Props come into their prime late. We'll get another year out of Hayes yet I'd say.

[liam2me]

Yes but the quality of his play at wing has been much, much better (just ask any Kiwi where they'd start him). That isn't the same thing as saying he'd be shit at FB BTW. If we are to get the most from our considerable investment then it makes sense to give him his head in the position he is most comfortable with. At very least it means he can carry good form with him to a new position. My suspcion however is that Payne may well stay on for the rest of the season. He seems to be enjoying his rugby and while he's not as sharp as he once was in defence, Tipoki and Mafi are giving him all sorts of lovely lines to run and one thingg Shaun could be said to suffer from is a grá for tries (put it this way, no one is receiving the ball from him 10 yards out...)

Doug at 11 for now and until injury retirement dictates otherwise I suspect.

i agree, i even think i had the same argument with proinsias a while back, and if i were given the choice i would have him at wing, but when you take into consideration that payne is meant to be retiring, and howlett can play FB just as well as wing, what do you really think is going to happen when payne finally hangs up the boots, be it when dowling comes back or at the end of the season?

[BangorFeen]

Answer me this liam, if munster were looking for a replacement for payne why didn't they buy a specialist full-back instead of a winger who can fill-in the position.
I broadly agree with you in terms of where DH is most at home but there can be no denying that Munster signed him with a view to him at very least provding cover at FB if not as a like-for-like repaynement. So to speak. We will see DH in the 15 jersey for Munster, the only uncertainty would be over the frequency of that. Oh and name me someone you would consider to be an out and out FB that was available to us this year? Besides Hurley and Lawlor of course

[HappyMonday83]

who says that all the eggs are in one basket? we have Pucciarello as a proven HEC replacement as well as Hurley and McGovern should we lose the 4 props ahead of them.

you're not doing too well here, might just want to leave before its 3 in a row

Do you consider pucciarello, hurley and mcgovern to be world class props?

[BangorFeen]

Do you consider pucciarello, hurley and mcgovern to be world class props?
Pucciarello is certainly HEC standard at loosehead IMO. Especially when he keeps his head (as bad as Horan for getting binned). Hurley has impressed me any time I've seen him play and is a mere infant for a prop. McGovern is ML level and not much more

[liam2me]

Answer me this liam, if munster were looking for a replacement for payne why didn't they buy a specialist full-back instead of a winger who can fill-in the position.
howlett is as much a FB as he is a winger, he's said so himself (see the link above)

[HappyMonday83]

I broadly agree with you in terms of where DH is most at home but there can be no denying that Munster signed him with a view to him at very least provding cover at FB if not as a like-for-like repaynement. So to speak. We will see DH in the 15 jersey for Munster, the only uncertainty would be over the frequency of that. Oh and name me someone you would consider to be an out and out FB that was available to us this year? Besides Hurley and Lawlor of course

They could have got Muliaina.

[HappyMonday83]

howlett is as much a FB as he is a winger, he's said so himself (see the link above)

Given the choice where do you think he would play?

[BangorFeen]

They could have got Muliaina.
Unlikely, he's still in the ABs 22

[liam2me]

Do you consider pucciarello, hurley and mcgovern to be world class props?
considering Pucciarello as 4th choice, he's a damn fine 4th choice prop to have, hurley as a promising 5th choice, i would have no complaints, considering he's only a youngster yet.

anyway, you're boring me now so i'm off, come back and play with the big boys once you know what you are talking about

[HappyMonday83]

Pucciarello is certainly HEC standard at loosehead IMO. Especially when he keeps his head (as bad as Horan for getting binned). Hurley has impressed me any time I've seen him play and is a mere infant for a prop. McGovern is ML level and not much more

But would you agree none are world class?

[HappyMonday83]

Unlikely, he's still in the ABs 22

They all got a price.

[liam2me]

Given the choice where do you think he would play?
either, but if he had a problem with playing FB he would not have signed, considering he would have been told during negotiations that that will be his primary position

[HappyMonday83]

considering Pucciarello as 4th choice, he's a damn fine 4th choice prop to have, hurley as a promising 5th choice, i would have no complaints, considering he's only a youngster yet.

anyway, you're boring me now so i'm off, come back and play with the big boys once you know what you are talking about

As I said, not world class.

[liam2me]

But would you agree none are world class?
i would have no hesitation throwing Pucciarello into the front row for any given game.

[HappyMonday83]

either, but if he had a problem with playing FB he would not have signed, considering he would have been told during negotiations that that will be his primary position

Simple question liam, which position doe's howlett prefer?

[HappyMonday83]

i would have no hesitation throwing Pucciarello into the front row for any given game.

Neither would I, but if munster have ambition to win the HC again they'll have to look for a better player than pucciarello, he's a good man to have as back-up, nothing more.

[liam2me]

Simple question liam, which position doe's howlett prefer?
"It doesn't really bother me which position I play in for Munster - wing or fullback - because I am comfortable in both."

from the horses mouth

http://www.planetrugby.com/Story/0,18259,3822_3022855 ,00.html

[BangorFeen]

But would you agree none are world class?
Up to a point. Hurley has massive potential and Pucciarello has undoubtedly been in the "Good Bunny" column of the overseas signing register. World class props are
a) rare as hens teeth
b) ridiculously expensive (it is rumoured that Hayman is receiving the honour of 15 virgins a week as part of his payment...)
c) Usually past their prime by the time an Irish side gets a look in - Ollie la Roux?

While it's no harm to look, we're better off developing internally. Buckley is the first fruits of that development and he will be world class

[liam2me]

Neither would I, but if munster have ambition to win the HC again they'll have to look for a better player than pucciarello, he's a good man to have as back-up, nothing more.
we would want a better player as 4th choice? come off it, you haven't a clue

[BangorFeen]

They all got a price.
True, but that would mean that POC, BOD and ROG would all be playing in the Top 14. It's not the only motivator

[liam2me]

True, but that would mean that POC, BOD and ROG would all be playing in the Top 14. It's not the only motivator
or even ROG playing american football, considering he was reportedly offered $10,000,000 a year by the dolphins a few years back

[HappyMonday83]

Up to a point. Hurley has massive potential and Pucciarello has undoubtedly been in the "Good Bunny" column of the overseas signing register. World class props are
a) rare as hens teeth
b) ridiculously expensive (it is rumoured that Hayman is receiving the honour of 15 virgins a week as part of his payment...)
c) Usually past their prime by the time an Irish side gets a look in - Ollie la Roux?

While it's no harm to look, we're better off developing internally. Buckley is the first fruits of that development and he will be world class

Of course it's better for irish rugby to devlop our own players, but not so good for munster who would have to rely on their youth structure while the english and french clubs cherry pick the worlds best players. To a degree this is happening already, which is why munster will be left behind in the coming years unless they start earning a lot more than they do now.

[BangorFeen]

or even ROG playing american football, considering he was reportedly offered $10,000,000 a year by the dolphins a few years back
That was probably bollox. I don't thinlk there was even a formal approach, it was more an idle remark from an official more than anything else. Let's focus more on Serge Blanco not even being able to pry BOD away from the disapproving frown (and increased pay packet) of the IRFU. Remember, the NZRU operates to a similar, if you don't play here, you don't play HERE modus operandi to the IRFU

[BangorFeen]

Of course it's better for irish rugby to devlop our own players, but not so good for munster who would have to rely on their youth structure while the english and french clubs cherry pick the worlds best players. To a degree this is happening already, which is why munster will be left behind in the coming years unless they start earning a lot more than they do now.
You see, here I disagree. Munster have been at the forefront of European competition for a decade now. We're doing OK and in the end of the day, to a large degree we make do with that which is at our disposal. We won the HEC with what 12+ players from the province and SP Irish qualified. We can continue to compete so long as we use the raw talent well. Buying in en mass is not and will not be an option for Munster going forward

[HappyMonday83]

we would want a better player as 4th choice? come off it, you haven't a clue
Poor effort liam. We're talking about 1st choice players as you well know.
True, but that would mean that POC, BOD and ROG would all be playing in the Top 14. It's not the only motivator

Considering the exodus from NZ post WC i'd imagine he was up for grabs.

[Langer Dan]

Poor effort liam. We're talking about 1st choice players as you well know.


Considering the exodus from NZ post WC i'd imagine he was up for grabs.

Happy biy, yer discussing Rugby with Lambo boy, you might as well discuss economics with a gerbil.

[legend76]

HM83 getting Pwned by the Jocks, whatever next ????


P.S. Credit where it's due Liam, you've made some very well constructed points here

This is fucking excellent for the SFI

[HappyMonday83]

or even ROG playing american football, considering he was reportedly offered $10,000,000 a year by the dolphins a few years back

That was a hoax liam. If you remember rte looked for a interview with someone from miami about the possible move only to be told that no one at the club had ever heard of rog never mind try to sign him.

[HappyMonday83]

Happy biy, yer discussing Rugby with Lambo boy, you might as well discuss economics with a gerbil.

I know, but in fairness he started well before falling back on old habits.

[liam2me]

Poor effort liam. We're talking about 1st choice players as you well know.


Considering the exodus from NZ post WC i'd imagine he was up for grabs.
no you weren't, but if you want to talk first choice players, unless horan improves, buckley will take his place, and with him and hayes at prop, there will be very few teams who could boast much better

[liam2me]

This is fucking excellent for the SFI
i was wondering how long it would take :roll:

[HappyMonday83]

You see, here I disagree. Munster have been at the forefront of European competition for a decade now. We're doing OK and in the end of the day, to a large degree we make do with that which is at our disposal. We won the HEC with what 12+ players from the province and SP Irish qualified. We can continue to compete so long as we use the raw talent well. Buying in en mass is not and will not be an option for Munster going forward

This is a different argument, let's try and stick to the point. Start a thread if you want.

[liam2me]

I know, but in fairness he started well before falling back on old habits.
looks like you've called in the bumslappers to try dig you out of your hole

[cit_gym_rat]

no you weren't, but if you want to talk first choice players, unless horan improves, buckley will take his place, and with him and hayes at prop, there will be very few teams who could boast much better
yeah but as much as i hate to say it liam - the bull has one at most two seasons left in him - marcus will be proping with buckley

[liam2me]

yeah but as much as i hate to say it liam - the bull has one at most two seasons left in him - marcus will be proping with buckley
and how long do you reckon it will take hurley to progress? buckley has come on leaps and bounds in 2 years, hurley or indeed an other, could be on the scene when the bull comes to retire, of course horan might even rekindle some kind of form, 2 years is a bloody long time in rugby

[Sound]

As I said, not world class.

They've only got a certain amount of cash to play around with HM and they've decided that a retiring FB was more urgent than the prop situation. It's Kidney's call.

I agree on one thing though, I'd much rather see Howlett on the wing than at FB personally. And buying world class props aint exactly easy so if they must have faith in Buckley. We'll only know for sure if he plays.

The PAG would also have a hand in these selections and, what with Leinster buying some props, that could have instructed the decision.

[HappyMonday83]

no you weren't, but if you want to talk first choice players, unless horan improves, buckley will take his place, and with him and hayes at prop, there will be very few teams who could boast much better

Hayes is at the end of his career, at best he's got two seasons left in him. As for buckley, so far he's done nothing of note at HC level (he played well against clermont seconds when he came on) only more game time will show if he's good enough.

[legend76]

i was wondering how long it would take :roll:

read the original post again.

ask yourself, who is being the butt of the joke ???

[liam2me]

read the original post again.

ask yourself, who is being the butt of the joke ???
wasn't having a go at all, just mentioning :)

[HappyMonday83]

They've only got a certain amount of cash to play around with HM and they've decided that a retiring FB was more urgent than the prop situation. It's Kidney's call.

I agree on one thing though, I'd much rather see Howlett on the wing than at FB personally. And buying world class props aint exactly easy so if they must have faith in Buckley. We'll only know for sure if he plays.

The PAG would also have a hand in these selections and, what with Leinster buying some props, that could have instructed the decision.

Howlett made his name as a winger, if at all possible i'd avoid playing him at full-back, it would be a waste of his talents. I agree that buckley should be brought on, but munster need two props. Hayes is near the end and horan is just shite.

[Sound]

Howlett made his name as a winger, if at all possible i'd avoid playing him at full-back, it would be a waste of his talents. I agree that buckley should be brought on, but munster need two props. Hayes is near the end and horan is just shite.


I think they need one as I disagree with you on Horan.

[cit_gym_rat]

i disagree with the Horan thing

he might not be the best scrummaging but he is one of the most mobile props in world rugby, in the loose he is excellent

[HappyMonday83]

I think they need one as I disagree with you on Horan.

i disagree with the Horan thing

he might not be the best scrummaging but he is one of the most mobile props in world rugby, in the loose he is excellent

He's not the player he was 3 years ago.

[cit_gym_rat]

He's not the player he was 3 years ago.
true - but who in world rugby is the exact same as 3 years ago?

in any sport for that matter

[HappyMonday83]

true - but who in world rugby is the exact same as 3 years ago?

in any sport for that matter

Ryan Giggs.


Horan is a shadow of the player he was.

[cit_gym_rat]

Ryan Giggs.


Horan is a shadow of the player he was.
Giggs has lost pace

[BangorFeen]

Hayes is at the end of his career, at best he's got two seasons left in him. As for buckley, so far he's done nothing of note at HC level (he played well against clermont seconds when he came on) only more game time will show if he's good enough.
Did you not see him against Wasps when Hayes went off then? He played very well - made a proper nuisance of himself. He was exceptional hands for such a big fellah as well

[HappyMonday83]

Giggs has lost pace

I don't know about that, I can't remember him being found wanting.

[HappyMonday83]

Did you not see him against Wasps when Hayes went off then? He played very well - made a proper nuisance of himself. He was exceptional hands for such a big fellah as well

How long was he on for 15-20 minutes, hardly enough to judge a player on.

[BangorFeen]

How long was he on for 15-20 minutes, hardly enough to judge a player on.
He was on from shortly before half time so no, not just 15-20 mins

[POL]

Whats Howletts physicality at the breakdown like? can he take the ball at the speed? has he fast hands?

[Sound]

Poor, yes, yes.

[raZor]

kRPeFzrl8cM

should be ok physicality wise anyway!:)

[EDDIEB]

Howlett hails Munster magic
Monday 26th May 2008

Doug Howlett hailed Munster as "something special in world rugby" after Saturday's Heineken Cup triumph over Toulouse.

Howlett has won Super rugby titles with the Crusaders, Tri-Nations titles, Lions series and Grand Slam tours with the All Blacks - but he has never before experienced anything like the Heineken Cup Final.

Munster were roared on by a travelling red army of 60,000-plus fans, who turned the Millennium Stadium into a home from home for the second time in three years.

On both occasions, Munster returned from Cardiff as European champions after narrow victories over French opponents - Biarritz in 2006 and Toulouse this weekend.

And after just one season playing in the northern hemisphere, the passion, history and spirit of Munster rugby has already worked its way under Howlett's skin.

"I have played Test matches at the Millennium Stadium with the All Blacks but we don't quite get the same reception," Howlett reflected.

"This was a fantastic event. This is why I came up here, for these experiences.

"It is hard to put your finger on what Munster is.

"But going out there and seeing thousands of supporters and having 65,000 stay behind after the game to celebrate - it is something special in world rugby."

Howlett celebrated after the final whistle by walking the length of the field, holding the trophy aloft and saluting the supporters.

It was particularly special for Howlett to make a winning return to the Millennium Stadium, after being controversially omitted from the New Zealand side beaten by France in the World Cup quarter-final last year.

Toulouse scrum-half Byron Kelleher, Howlett's former All Black team-mate who started that quarter-final, once again left Cardiff having been taught a harsh lesson in how to finish off a game.

But Kelleher could not begrudge his old mate the chance to bury some ghosts - even if it was at his own expense.

"He knew it was something special to return to this ground after the disappointing loss at the Rugby World Cup," said Kelleher.

"It was nice for Dougie to come back here because he missed out altogether on that quarter-final.

"At the end he showed a bit of remorse for me because we knew that one of us was going to lose.

"But I have not experienced anything like this before. Those Munster fans create a great environment - it was definitely home-field advantage for Munster.

"But we are entertainers at the end of the day and I am pleased to have been a part of it."

Kelleher insists the French authorities must learn immediate lessons from Munster's victory against a Toulouse side who still have at least three weeks of their domestic season to play.

Key players like Vincent Clerc and Clement Poitrenaud were missing through injury and Kelleher believes Munster, who had not played for three weeks, had a distinct advantage.

"It has been very difficult for the French. With the Rugby World Cup, the whole season has been compacted," he said.

"There is definitely an exhaustion factor. It is an advantage for them to be able to come into the game fresh.

"I suppose French rugby will start to look at how they structure their competition from now on. They definitely should. How long has it been since a French side won the Heineken Cup?"

[Edmund Blackwater]

"I suppose French rugby will start to look at how they structure their competition from now on. They definitely should. How long has it been since a French side won the Heineken Cup?"

:lol!:

Someone should tell him

[cit_gym_rat]

:lol!:

Someone should tell him
toulouse in 2005
munster in 2006
wasps in 2007
munster in 2008

[cit_gym_rat]

Howlett hails Munster magic
Monday 26th May 2008



Howlett has won Super rugby titles with the Crusaders

where did that come from eddie, doug never played for the Crusaders, he played for the blues.

[Edmund Blackwater]

toulouse in 2005
munster in 2006
wasps in 2007
munster in 2008

I was referring to the first bit I quoted.