Irish Soccer Fans Poll

[Lamps]

Just wondering after being treated to a dose of normality, i.e. being shit, would ye all be happy with a quarter final spot in a world cup or something else, better or even worse

Wonder what the average joe soap would regard as success or failure considering we are back to our historical level.

Pick what you would consider a successful campaign, REALISTICALLY, go as far as you can before you would deem it failure.

Bear in mind we would all love to win it, but this is based on our resources as well as other things

Poll ag teacht

[Rebelred]

Qualifying for a major tournament would do me.

[Lamps]

Not trying to set anyone up here, genuine poll.

[The Godfather]

ya qualification is always a good thing...few decent results and try get out of group stages....2002 was good...despite all the drama...we were only a penalty kick from the quarter final

[EDDIEB]

Qualifying for a major tournament would do me.

That should be our basic requirement - after that who knows.

I think that Stan is actually stupid - thats not his fault as he is clearly not fit for purpose.

Has he any academic qualifications or anything ?

[Rebelred]

Has he any academic qualifications or anything ?
I presume like most professional players he left school early

[EDDIEB]

I presume like most professional players he left school early

High infants in Stans case ?

[Lamps]

Keane failed his Inter Cert.

What's your point Eddie?

[EDDIEB]

Keane failed his Inter Cert.

What's your point Eddie?

Keane is a successful manager and has played to his strengths and skills as has Richard Branson without any qualifications.

Just trying to figure out Stans obvious slowness of thought and reason.

Stans lack of verbal skills with dealing with the press,his lack of emotion.

Is he awake ?


Probably a lovely fellah but not management material.

Would he inpire you to cross the road nevermind beat the mighty San Marino.

[Lamps]

Keane is a successful manager and has played to his strengths and skills as has Richard Branson without any qualifications.

Just trying to figure out Stans obvious slowness of thought and reason.

Stans lack of verbal skills with dealing with the press,his lack of emotion.

Is he awake ?


Probably a lovely fellah but not management material.

Would he inpire you to cross the road nevermind beat the mighty San Marino.

Fine, but i thought you were bringing education into it for a reason to beat Stan, just evening things up.

I think Stan has proven to be an awful choice of manager.

[Lamps]

StevieG, where are you.

I am interested in what you would deem success?

[Proinsias]

Keane failed his Inter Cert.

What's your point Eddie?

I believe he recently got the advanced coacking badges though, didn't he? He's got at least a UEFA A badge.


I have no level of ambition for the Irish soccer team any more, if they do well, I might be interested again, but as it is, They're rubbish, playing rubbish soccer. I was watching the Ireland Germany match at the same time as the France England match and the Ireland Germany one almost put me to sleep.

I wish them well, but I'm only really going to keep an eye on the matches, little more. We haven't done anything in soccer for over 5 years and won't do for another 2, so I think there's little point in getting too excited about it.

[STEVIEG]

StevieG, where are you.

I am interested in what you would deem success?

Dealt with in the other thread

I have little interest post Saipan

Hard luck on the stitch up

and listen, i've no major problems with the fact that you and Pol travelled to Phoenix Park in your leprechaun suits to welcome the World Cup bottlers home in 2002, but it is kinda funny

[Lamps]

Results are interesting to say the least.

And quite heartening to see that most people don't see us needing to win the world cup with a small population and it not even being the main sport outside of Dublin, to have a successful campaign


Stevie, I said it wasn't a stitch up and it wasn't. If you feel anything but winning the world cup in soccer is failure I just find that a bit sad. Nice aspiration all the same.

[STEVIEG]

Stevie, I said it wasn't a stitch up and it wasn't. If you feel anything but winning the world cup in soccer is failure I just find that a bit sad. Nice aspiration all the same.

It's changed a bit post Saipan

Now beating Cyprus would be satisfactory

[Rebel Yell]

We should aim to win it...at the very least a penalty shoot out victory in the final versus Brazil, but a 3-0 normal time victory would be more acceptable...
Bring back the glory days when Eddie McGoldrick wowed us all with his trickery and Alan Kernaghan strode the defensive landscape like a colussus putting the fear of God into every opponent....

[Up For The Ba]

I would base success on performing consistently over a period of years. We`ve gone up against the French and the Czechs at the start of qualifying rounds and gotten results. Irelands downfall in recent years has always been
self inflicted, be it from poor management or costly individual errors which you just dont see from the top international teams.

Look at 2002, we should have beaten Spain, we should have at least faced South Korea. A semi-final place shouldnt be beyond reckoning in anybodies thoughts, especially the players.

[RonnyB]

Considering that the majority of Irish players are playing at a higher level of football than the Scots then qualification should be the target. The majority of the 1st 11 are all playing for Premiership clubs yet we dont see the same standards they produce for them when they play for Ireland. Maybe thats the managers fault or maybe the players could give a flying fcuk.

If in Scotland's situation I'd have been very happy with being competitive in a group containing both WC finalists. However in a group as weak as the one Ireland are in, its been a failure IMO.

[Lamps]

4 lads considering anything less than winning the world cup failure.

Jesus Christ.

They'd probably be the first to knock the English press for saying something similar with way better players.

[Up For The Ba]

4 lads considering anything less than winning the world cup failure.

Jesus Christ.

They'd probably be the first to knock the English press for saying something similar with way better players.


Agreed, but those who are saying simply qualifying or getting to the second round is a success also have to be questioned.

Since we havent qualified for a major tournament in the last three attempts a qualification would of course be deemed an initial success but once there why not aim for the top? As I said, in hindisght a semi-final place in 02 was more than achievable.

[Lamps]

Agreed, but those who are saying simply qualifying or getting to the second round is a success also have to be questioned.

Since we havent qualified for a major tournament in the last three attempts a qualification would of course be deemed an initial success but once there why not aim for the top? As I said, in hindisght a semi-final place in 02 was more than achievable.

Like I said, our aspiration should always be to win it, but realistically with Brazil, Italy, Argentina, Germany, France and many more all traditionally stronger, with more players, better players and lets face it, in most of those cases it being their number one sport, then they would have to be more likely to do it.

For people to say not winning it is failure is ridiculous in the extreme, in my opinion making the quarter final would be huge.

[Up For The Ba]

Like I said, our aspiration should always be to win it, but realistically with Brazil, Italy, Argentina, Germany, France and many more all traditionally stronger, with more players, better players and lets face it, in most of those cases it being their number one sport, then they would have to be more likely to do it.



Well there`s clearly one answer for this. We must apply to Fifa to alter the structure of tournaments into a triathlon of events, with Road Bowling and Hurling being the other two sports.

[Lamps]

Well there`s clearly one answer for this. We must apply to Fifa to alter the structure of tournaments into a triathlon of events, with Road Bowling and Hurling being the other two sports.

well maybe so.

but seriously, we would say that Wales or Scotland were mad if they regarded not winning the world cup as failure.

In fact Scotland caught that bug once, and with a better team than us and they flopped big time. Think Rod Stewart pre-recorded some ditty to release as soon as the cup landed home. Think it was 1978

[legend76]

Agreed, but those who are saying simply qualifying or getting to the second round is a success also have to be questioned.

Since we havent qualified for a major tournament in the last three attempts a qualification would of course be deemed an initial success but once there why not aim for the top? As I said, in hindisght a semi-final place in 02 was more than achievable.

I do think that 2002 was our greatest opportunity ever, and we could have and should have reached the final. This isn't just some mad post-Saipan revisionist theory. all you need to assess is the German side who did make the final, and consider how poorly the "BIG" teams did. (besides Brazil and Germany of course)

However that might as well be a century ago now, under the current manager, i can't see us get beyond option one.

P.S. Stevie, are you Liam2me in disguise??

[Up For The Ba]

well maybe so.

but seriously, we would say that Wales or Scotland were mad if they regarded not winning the world cup as failure.

In fact Scotland caught that bug once, and with a better team than us and they flopped big time. Think Rod Stewart pre-recorded some ditty to release as soon as the cup landed home. Think it was 1978

`78 or `82 alright i`d say.

[Lamps]

I do think that 2002 was our greatest opportunity ever, and we could have and should have reached the final. This isn't just some mad post-Saipan revisionist theory. all you need to assess is the German side who did make the final, and concider how poorly the "BIG" teams did.


That sounds awfully like the way England go on to me, fact is we probably could have made it one round further as we made it to penos. But the fact also is that Spain should have thumped us on paper. Germany were poor but still topped our group. Italy had a better team than us, so did France who bombed out in the groups. So did Argentina. Brazil were way better than us.

All this coulda woulda shoulda talk is bollocks.

[Lamps]

`78 or `82 alright i`d say.

think it was 78.

beat Holland, but couldn't do the business against Peru and Iran. Typical hard luck story

Kubilass was Peru's man

[homer jay]

beat Holland

was that the one with the archie gemmel wonder goal?

[Lamps]

was that the one with the archie gemmel wonder goal?
correct

think the non world class Dalglish scored as well

[legend76]

That sounds awfully like the way England go on to me, fact is we probably could have made it one round further as we made it to penos. But the fact also is that Spain should have thumped us on paper. Germany were poor but still topped our group. Italy had a better team than us, so did France who bombed out in the groups. So did Argentina. Brazil were way better than us.

All this coulda woulda shoulda talk is bollocks.

Clever edit there Lamps !!!!, my next line was, that might as well be a century ago now :)

[Lamps]

Clever edit there Lamps !!!!, my next line was, that might as well be a century ago now :)

I didn't edit it

[jimmy magee]

fact is that for internationals, particular pools of players come together for a period in time.. Sometimes you get a daycent batch, sometimes you don't..

This is why for internationals you(the players/coaching staff/etc) should always aim sky high, as a wise man once said.

Like a world cup, its four weeks long, four weeks :crazyeye: Aim high you fuckin shower of gombeen cunts!

[jimmy magee]

to the poll topic,
considering the drivel-esque style of football taught on these isles, i'd say quarter final, cos we can give 110% percent effort which most of those squeamish faggots on the continent cannot

[Lamps]

I think its downright wrong of us to think any country ain't giving it 100%.

Its a line often trotted out by Giles when he's stuck in not knowing about the opposition, the Italians won't have the heart to match the Irish. Same as the Ghana or Ivory Coast won't have the cuteness despite them all playing across the top european leagues.

[Lamps]

cos we can give 110% percent effort which most of those squeamish faggots on the continent cannot

jesus, you edited it to include the bold bit?

[jimmy magee]

I think its downright wrong of us to think any country ain't giving it 100%.


you're lapping up the mediocrity..

[jimmy magee]

jesus, you edited it to include the bold bit?

yes, trying to get the point across that McShane is no primadonna

[Sound]

you're lapping up the mediocrity..

Go back to Italy.

[steve sanders]

we're never going to win a world cup.

we could conceivably reach the final of a european championship in my lifetime. the only time we ever qualified for one we did pretty well.

see, not all that fervour and hope of my youth has evaporated despite following both newcastle and ireland for the past 18 years or so. i thank city's occasional ability to win something for keeping me from the grave.

[Lamps]

we're never going to win a world cup.

we could conceivably reach the final of a european championship in my lifetime. the only time we ever qualified for one we did pretty well.


we didn't get out of the group, admitedly an 8 team tournament, but thats complete failure for some.

it was a great summer for most of us though

[legend76]

I didn't edit it

selective quoting then :) you know exactly what my point was. We both agree that's there's no feasibility on basing future expectations on what might have been.

[Lamps]

Magoo, you need to be either a serious poster or proper wum. Reminds me of Fitzy trying to claim he was wumming after getting pwned and that the joke was on us

[Lamps]

selective quoting then :) you know exactly what my point was. We both agree that's there's no feasibility on basing future expectations on what might have been.

I was talking about that part of the post, its a commonly held view.

If it hadna been for x y and z we would have won it. Anyone can say that. Skyone made a program on Englands rotten luck in the world cup.

The rest of us can see they weren't good enough

[jimmy magee]

Go back to Italy.


WTF! The Irish team goes on the piss at gatherings! Robbie Keane advertises for Walkers! Andy Reid's a fat bastard! Duff never improved! Paddy Kenny's a sack of shit! The pitches were gravel! Staunton's a slowy with no tactical nous! MEDIOCRITY!

[STEVIEG]

Lamps, by your criteria, Ireland winning the Triple Crown should be celebrated as a success

Do you think it was a success?

If Northern Ireland can beat Spain, I'm sure we can

Football games are not won on paper

[Armitage Conway the 2nd]

we didn't get out of the group, admitedly an 8 team tournament, but thats complete failure for some.

it was a great summer for most of us though

Only by a bounce of a ball, which i still cannot explain the sudden change in direction. But regardless of that, it was the stepping stone for a very successful period for Irish footie.

[Lamps]

Lamps, by your criteria, Ireland winning the Triple Crown should be celebrated as a success

Do you think it was a success?

If Northern Ireland can beat Spain, I'm sure we can

Football games are not won on paper

Winning the tripe crown was a success in terms of them being shite forever and no longer being wooden spoonists which is what Arland historically were.
It was no longer a success when they deemed themselves probable title winners. In general Arland were the only ones who truly celebrated this, i think (in my lifetime anyway), which says something about the poverty of rogger here.

NI can beat Spain in a one off game, so can we. And in theory we can also beat everyone else and win the world cup.

BUT, is this realistic . NO

Considering anything other than winning the world cup failure is just stupid

[Lamps]

Only by a bounce of a ball, which i still cannot explain the sudden change in direction. But regardless of that, it was the stepping stone for a very successful period for Irish footie.

it wasn't very sucessful at all for some of us

[steve sanders]

we didn't get out of the group, admitedly an 8 team tournament, but thats complete failure for some.

it was a great summer for most of us though

well to be fair i think we all voted based on the format that currently exists in major tournaments. you didn't include a 'beating england in the group stages but going out to a lucky goal in an 8 team tournament to the eventual winners' option.

[Lamps]

well to be fair i think we all voted based on the format that currently exists in major tournaments. you didn't include a 'beating england in the group stages but going out to a lucky goal in an 8 team tournament to the eventual winners' option.
yes i did

[Armitage Conway the 2nd]

it wasn't very sucessful at all for some of us


Small steps at the time for fuck sake, We reached our first world cup 2 years later, getting to the quarters. Not bad for an association with fuck all money.

[legend76]

I was talking about that part of the post, its a commonly held view.

If it hadna been for x y and z we would have won it. Anyone can say that. Skyone made a program on Englands rotten luck in the world cup.

The rest of us can see they weren't good enough

Lamps I never said that we would have won it. I said we could have , and if you consider the paritiy between the 2002 Irish team and the 2002 German side (plus the basic errors which Mick made against Spain) we should have made the final. Where exactly did I suggest the we would have been good enough to beat Brazil ???

In fact I finished the post by asking Stevie if he was mad for thinking anything less than winning would be a failure.

we could have and should have reached the final. This isn't just some mad post-Saipan revisionist theory. all you need to assess is the German side who did make the final, and consider how poorly the "BIG" teams did. (besides Brazil and Germany of course)

However that might as well be a century ago now, under the current manager, i can't see us get beyond option one.

P.S. Stevie, are you Liam2me in disguise??

[STEVIEG]

Winning the tripe crown was a success

Wow

[Lamps]

Lamps I never said that we would have won it. I said we could have , and if you consider the paritiy between the 2002 Irish team and the 2002 German side (plus the basic errors which Mick made against Spain) we should have made the final. Where exactly did I suggest the we would have been good enough to beat Brazil ???

In fact I finished the post by asking Stevie if he was mad for thinking anything less than winning would be a failure.

I wasn't taking you to task lad, I was commenting on that general perception that a lot of people have, including just pissing passed South Korea who were outstanding that year.

[STEVIEG]

I wasn't taking you to task lad, I was commenting on that general perception that a lot of people have, including just pissing passed South Korea who were outstanding that year.

Ji Sung Park > Pele

[Lamps]

Wow


selective editing.

not answering the question.

not defending your point of view.

in fact none of the lads who voted winning the world cup seem ready to

[Lamps]

Ji Sung Park > Pele

> David Connonly

[STEVIEG]

selective editing.

not answering the question.

not defending your point of view.

in fact none of the lads who voted winning the world cup seem ready to

If Greece can win the Euros, ireland can win the World Cup

I mentioned in detail why we could of done in it in our last 3 Tournaments

Couldn't be arsed going on about it anymore

Sport is about daring to believe sometime

(I'm off to seal that Nike ad contract:))

[Lamps]

If Greece can win the Euros, ireland can win the World Cup

I mentioned in detail why we could of done in it in our last 3 Tournaments

Couldn't be arsed going on about it anymore

Sport is about daring to believe sometime

(I'm off to seal that Nike ad contract:))

Ireland can still win this one

[STEVIEG]

Ireland can still win this one

Now you are talking

Stan believes, Lamps believes and I believe

Let's fucking do it

[Edmund Blackwater]

...2002 was good...despite all the drama...we were only a penalty kick from the quarter final
2 penalty kicks.

Anyway, Getting out of the group is an achievement. We have to, genuinely, look at where we are and were in the hierarchy of the game. If we get into the second round, it means we are in the top 16 in the world...which is where we were at the time...if not a little worse than that. QFs means top eight - we got there once, but there was no way we were one of the top 8 teams in the world at the time.
So, yeah 2nd round is, I think where we should be with qfs being a serious achievement.

[FL4ZGN]

Ireland can still win this one

66 was a great year for football.

And not just because Cantona was born.

[jimmy magee]

Magoo, you need to be either a serious poster or proper wum. Reminds me of Fitzy trying to claim he was wumming after getting pwned and that the joke was on us

what you banging on about?? whats this got to do with sport?

[Edmund Blackwater]

66 was a great year for football.

And not just because Cantona was born.
another journeuman hype merchant.

[FL4ZGN]

another journeuman hype merchant.

Maybe but 66 was a great year for Irish football in general.

[Edmund Blackwater]

Maybe but 66 was a great year for Irish football in general.
Quinner was born?

[xvis]

I do think that 2002 was our greatest opportunity ever, and we could have and should have reached the final. This isn't just some mad post-Saipan revisionist theory. all you need to assess is the German side who did make the final, and consider how poorly the "BIG" teams did. (besides Brazil and Germany of course)
That sounds awfully like the way England go on to me, fact is we probably could have made it one round further as we made it to penos. But the fact also is that Spain should have thumped us on paper. Germany were poor but still topped our group. Italy had a better team than us, so did France who bombed out in the groups. So did Argentina. Brazil were way better than us.

All this coulda woulda shoulda talk is bollocks.

France, Argentina and Brazil had absolutely nothing to do with whether Ireland reached the final or not in 2002, as they were all on the much more difficult other side of the draw, ..as were England.


This was the only ever World Cup seeded in this way due to dual hosts.


***

I would define getting to the semi-finals and coming home with medals as success. ..as notables such as Turkey, South Korea, Portugal, Croatia, Bulgaria, Sweden and England have all done over the era of Ireland qualifications.

That doesn't necessarily mean quarter-finals is a failure, ..I'd class that as very good, as would second round.

Lack of qualification is failure in my books, and first round elimination is Scotland class - of old.


However, the way Ireland may be going, beating the top seed in a qualification group may be the limit of glory days ahead.

[afeencalleddan]

If Greece can win the Euros, ireland can win the World CupI can't agree with that Stevie and that's not really the point of this thread anyway. The Euro championships is becoming the UEFA cup of international football. Judging from the last championships the players are far more interested in the world cup these days. So in the world cup you have more motivated European sides, Argentina & Brazil and one or two well organised nations with good coaches from the other confederations. It's practically impossible for Ireland to win a tournament under these circumstances. Of course ANY team that qualifies for a tournament should go there wanting and aiming to win it but I think it's important for fans and media to be realistic. Second round is definitely a success for Ireland. Obviously if there are opportunities to win that second round game or any other game in a tournament then we should be disappointed if it doesn't come about but from the outset the second round is a fair goal.

[STEVIEG]

I can't agree with that Stevie and that's not really the point of this thread anyway. The Euro championships is becoming the UEFA cup of international football. Judging from the last championships the players are far more interested in the world cup these days. So in the world cup you have more motivated European sides, Argentina & Brazil and one or two well organised nations with good coaches from the other confederations. It's practically impossible for Ireland to win a tournament under these circumstances. Of course ANY team that qualifies for a tournament should go there wanting and aiming to win it but I think it's important for fans and media to be realistic. Second round is definitely a success for Ireland. Obviously if there are opportunities to win that second round game or any other game in a tournament then we should be disappointed if it doesn't come about but from the outset the second round is a fair goal.

Fair enough, but Ireland could have won the three they got to

Highly unlikely, yes

But impossible, no

Impossible is nothing :) (pre this campaign)

[afeencalleddan]

Impossible is nothingI agree, anybody involved in playing or coaching a sport should believe that but if the public go so far with this as to lose all touch with reality and start placing OTT expectations on their team then that's when the ridiculous pressure comes on and the team crumbles. Our friends across the water have this every time they compete.

[STEVIEG]

I agree, anybody involved in playing or coaching a sport should believe that but if the public go so far with this as to lose all touch with reality and start placing OTT expectations on their team then that's when the ridiculous pressure comes on and the team crumbles. Our friends across the water have this every time they compete.

Nah don't get me wrong i'm not like that at all

After the post Saipan shambles anything is reasonably satisfactory but i still feel that with the mental progress we made after the 2-2 slip up in Holland we should be thinking more ambitiously

The anti-Keane folk don't seem to realise that their would have been no Saioan and no World Cup had we not snapped out of that glorious draw crap

We got out of a great group and could have won that World Cup

But let's not go there i suppose:)

[afeencalleddan]

The anti-Keane folk don't seem to realise that their would have been no Saioan and no World Cup had we not snapped out of that glorious draw crapAbsolutely, I think this defeat from the jaws of victory shite sums us up as a nation but I wouldn't fancy the English style OTT superiority complex either. There should be a happy medium. In the long term our goals should be realistic but in the short term they should be flexible without limit and standards should always be kept high to help us go as far as possible.

[STEVIEG]

Absolutely, I think this defeat from the jaws of victory shite sums us up as a nation but I wouldn't fancy the English style OTT superiority complex either. There should be a happy medium. In the long term our goals should be realistic but in the short term they should be flexible without limit and standards should always be kept high to help us go as far as possible.

True

If we got to the World Cup finals in 2010 i'd keep the manager (whoever he may be) on

If he looked like he was pushing us in the right direction i'd still keep him on

Ultimately, i think we should try to win every game but that doesn't mean I expect us to have a right to do it

I still think the mediocrity of some of the recent teams in tournaments mean that actually getting there gives most half decent teams a chance of winning it

Xvis's observations on the 2002 tournament were especially interesting here

The Brazil team who won struggled to beat a poor English side

anyway, enough for tonight!

[marco 2005]

True

The Brazil team who won struggled to beat a poor English side



Brazil's been shit in the last 4 WC.

[afeencalleddan]

The Brazil team who won struggled to beat a poor English side

anyway, enough for tonight!Struggled seems a bit harsh. From what I can recall granted they gave England a head start but once they hit the front they were never in danger even with 10 men.

I know there are world cups where numerous big teams under perform but there'll almost always be one team with pedigree that'll come through and win it. That has ALWAYS been the case in the soccer world cup.

As you said, enough for tonight!

[M&M]

Brazil's been shit in the last 4 WC.

Tis amazing how they've been shit in the last 4 world cups and yet they've still won two of them.


Oh and they got to final in 98 aswell

[marco 2005]

Tis amazing how they've been shit in the last 4 world cups and yet they've still won two of them.


Oh and they got to final in 98 aswell

yeah, the better teams dont always win.

94 on penalties, 98 got hammered 3-0, 2002 beat a poor german team and 2006...well no comments.

[afeencalleddan]

yeah, the better teams dont always win.

94 on penalties, 98 got hammered 3-0, 2002 beat a poor german team and 2006...well no comments.Of course they got a bye through to all of those games.

[M&M]

yeah, the better teams dont always win.

94 on penalties, 98 got hammered 3-0, 2002 beat a poor german team and 2006...well no comments.

Are you for real?? Or are you a really, really, really, bad WUM??

They did exactly what they were there to do. Win. Two out of four world cups is a fantastic return. And something that barely any countries in the world can produce. Most finals don't live up to expectations but I think you're forgetting the games that lead up to the final.

[marco 2005]

OK, shit isnt the right word to use especially for 94.

But 98:Scotland, Norway and Morocco, then Chili, Denmark and Holland, then mighty Zidane in the final. Not the most difficult WC journey.

2002: Costa Rica China and Turkey (which i really liked at the time) then Belgium, a very poor England side, Turkey again and a very average Germany.

2006: a Eduardoless Croatia, Japan and Australia, Ghana and France.

[M&M]

In fairness, in all of those tournaments they earned their way to the final. I could list out the results for you but i'm sure you're smart enough to google them for yourself. No World Cup tournament is not a walk in the park. Even the rugby shows that this year. Surprises will spring up along the way. Out of the last 4 world cups, Brazil have won 2 and been runner up in another. You can't argue with that.

[xvis]

So anyway, 2002..



With the top three ranked sides in the World; France, Argentina and Brazil beautifully positioned on the Japan half of a lopsided draw; entering the tournament on Ireland's half of the draw were...


Germany - a great keeper, but not much else. ..as an added bonus their best/only player Effenberg had long since walked out on his country! sweet! ..finish first or second to this lot in the groups and we wouldn't meet again til the semi's.
Portugal - Good side, ..Ireland finished unbeaten and level on points with them in the qualifiers. Nothing to fear.
Spain - an absolutely Rubbish side! ..nowhere near the class of Portugal or Holland. ..Can anyone remember them beating a decent side in the World Cup finals? ..ever?
Italy - Top, top quality, but we'd beaten them before. We'd be up against it in the quarters with this lot.
South Korea - these guys had never won a match in the World Cup finals before.



So, the end result was.. Germany finished runners-up. South Korea finished in 4th place. Portugal didn't even make it out of the group. Italy lost in the second round. The US made the quarters in the same half of the draw, ..and Ireland had a "successful" World Cup going out in the second round to 10 man Spain.

Ole, Ole Ole Ole, Ole, Ole.



In the same way I'd classify the Argentinian rugby side as having had a successful rugby world cup, they'll be going home as either the 3rd/4th placed side, and congratulations to them.


Similarly in Euro 88, there was an overall disappointment that the team didn't make the semi's but it was a very good tournament nonetheless.

[Lamps]

Absolutely, I think this defeat from the jaws of victory shite sums us up as a nation but I wouldn't fancy the English style OTT superiority complex either. There should be a happy medium. In the long term our goals should be realistic but in the short term they should be flexible without limit and standards should always be kept high to help us go as far as possible.

exactly, and i think the poll is bearing this out, we would regard 2nd round/QF as genuine success, anything more being a bonus.

With a squad full of premiership players and proper organisation, this is realistic.

[3pointplay]

Just wondering after being treated to a dose of normality, i.e. being shit, would ye all be happy with a quarter final spot in a world cup or something else, better or even worse

Wonder what the average joe soap would regard as success or failure considering we are back to our historical level.

Pick what you would consider a successful campaign, REALISTICALLY, go as far as you can before you would deem it failure.

Bear in mind we would all love to win it, but this is based on our resources as well as other things

Poll ag teacht

How come all your polls are public?

[Rebelred]

How come all your polls are public?

what's there to hide? it's only a poll on THE INTERNET

[Lamps]

How come all your polls are public?

stops spammers for one

[EDDIEB]

exactly, and i think the poll is bearing this out, we would regard 2nd round/QF as genuine success, anything more being a bonus.

With a squad full of premiership players and proper organisation, this is realistic.

The much over rated premiership ?

Proper organisation should be a basic requirement.

2nd round / QF and see what happens then.

Lets get back to at least competing

[3pointplay]

stops spammers for one

2 good points, You will have to excuse me, Late night early morning not good.

As for the poll question getting to the 2nd round should be the least we should aim for.

[Lamps]

The much over rated premiership ?

Proper organisation should be a basic requirement.

2nd round / QF and see what happens then.

Letsb get back to at least competing

Premiership is overrated but its one of the top 4 leagues in Europe.

Proper organisation may be a basic requirement but we haven't had it since Big Mick left.

Kerr and Stan's teams scream it. Couldn't believe the amount of 4 on 3 or 4 on 2 Cyprus attacks last night. As stevie said, look what Greece did with a bit of organisation.

[elwood blues]

I also put 2nd round as my expectation however after this joke of a campaign we will be lucky to be even a third seed for the 2010 world cup.
So in hindsight I would change my choice as I reckon for the next few years qualification for tournaments will be a major achievement.

[STEVIEG]

So anyway, 2002..



With the top three ranked sides in the World; France, Argentina and Brazil beautifully positioned on the Japan half of a lopsided draw; entering the tournament on Ireland's half of the draw were...


Germany - a great keeper, but not much else. ..as an added bonus their best/only player Effenberg had long since walked out on his country! sweet! ..finish first or second to this lot in the groups and we wouldn't meet again til the semi's.
Portugal - Good side, ..Ireland finished unbeaten and level on points with them in the qualifiers. Nothing to fear.
Spain - an absolutely Rubbish side! ..nowhere near the class of Portugal or Holland. ..Can anyone remember them beating a decent side in the World Cup finals? ..ever?
Italy - Top, top quality, but we'd beaten them before. We'd be up against it in the quarters with this lot.
South Korea - these guys had never won a match in the World Cup finals before.



So, the end result was.. Germany finished runners-up. South Korea finished in 4th place. Portugal didn't even make it out of the group. Italy lost in the second round. The US made the quarters in the same half of the draw, ..and Ireland had a "successful" World Cup going out in the second round to 10 man Spain.

Ole, Ole Ole Ole, Ole, Ole.



In the same way I'd classify the Argentinian rugby side as having had a successful rugby world cup, they'll be going home as either the 3rd/4th placed side, and congratulations to them.


Similarly in Euro 88, there was an overall disappointment that the team didn't make the semi's but it was a very good tournament nonetheless.

There for the taking

In fairness in Euro 88, the fact that it was our first tournament would have dampened expectation, but both the finalists were in our group and Ireland were equal to both on the day (including the only Dutch side who have ever won anything)

[Lamps]

There for the taking


Still would have had to beat South Korea, Germany and Brazil.

It was NOT there for the taking. It would have taken something monumental.
We had an ok team, Stan and Breen at centre halves, Ian Harte at left back, Matt Holland and Kinsella holding down the middle, Steve Finnan I think was playing midfield. It really wasn't that much better than what we have now.

What we did have was great team spirit and and manager who had them organised.

[STEVIEG]

I was NOT there for the taking. .

I didn't say you were

[Lamps]

I didn't say you were

all fixed.

[STEVIEG]

Still would have had to beat South Korea, Germany and Brazil.

I was NOT there for the taking. It would have taken something monumental.
We had an ok team, Stan and Breen at centre halves, Ian Harte at left back, Matt Holland and Kinsella holding down the middle, Steve Finnan I think was playing midfield. It really wasn't that much better than what we have now.

What we did have was great team spirit and and manager who had them organised.

Of course it would have taken a monumental effort, and our best player and driving force would have helped too

Especially when things were going pear shaped in certain games

It was on though

[Lamps]

Of course it would have taken a monumental effort, and our best player and driving force would have helped too

Especially when things were going pear shaped in certain games

It was on though

This is Sun-esque.


If Keane played we might have won it, we might have gone out in the group stage. Moot point at best

[cit_gym_rat]

question for ye lads - how many of this team would get into the english side?

id say shay given is the only one with half a chance.

[STEVIEG]

This is Sun-esque.


If Keane played we might have won it, we might have gone out in the group stage. Moot point at best


I suppose they played better without him?

Against Spain, when a calm head was needed, he was missed

and badly missed at that

That Spanish team were vastly over-rated internationally (see Xvis post above)

Not to mention the fact that this Irish team, much the same players as are paying now as you mentioned, would not have got good results against Portugal, Holland or even Cyprus away without him, and would most likely not have been there in the first place

Anyone who says otherwise is deluded or wumming

[STEVIEG]

question for ye lads - how many of this team would get into the english side?

id say shay given is the only one with half a chance.

None

maybe Finnan but probably not


They might all be watching Euro 2008 together though, over in Pieheads place

[POL]

now the Keaneites are beginning to understand why Mick McCarthy was such a great Irish Manager

[cit_gym_rat]

None

maybe Finnan but probably not


They might all be watching Euro 2008 together though, over in Pieheads place
exactly my point - NONE

you cant solely blame steve for a bunch of donkeys he has to pick from. There isnt many of them playing at a constant high level in england ffs.

[STEVIEG]

now the Keaneites are beginning to understand why Mick McCarthy was such a great Irish Manager

The Wolves and Sunderland fans might think differently

McCarthy was lucky enough to have a player like Keane at his disposal

he did fuck all without him

[STEVIEG]

exactly my point - NONE

you cant solely blame steve for a bunch of donkeys he has to pick from. There isnt many of them playing at a constant high level in england ffs.

Regardless of players available, the current manager is out of his depth, his decisions in the Slovakia game said it all

[cit_gym_rat]

Regardless of players available, the current manager is out of his depth, his decisions in the Slovakia game said it all
but whats the alternative - aldridge? ffs what did he do with tramere? The players airnt there to do well, the fai wont invest the money for a decent manager not that it matters i dont think anyone could get this group of donkeys playing.

[3pointplay]

Bring back Jack and the long ball.

[STEVIEG]

but whats the alternative - aldridge? ffs what did he do with tramere? The players airnt there to do well, the fai wont invest the money for a decent manager not that it matters i dont think anyone could get this group of donkeys playing.

They should never have got a nobody manager like Stan, who quite clearly IMO has not got the personality for this job

We all said it at the time ( it's no reflection on him really, i would have taken the job too)

They promised World Class but realistically, anyone would have been better

Shell out some cash and it could be got back a la endorsements if we had qualified for Euro 2008, quite a possibility with a half decent manager

The penny pinching cost Ireland

Brian Kerr should not have been sacked if there were no better options around

and yes, i do think Aldridge would have done better, he brought Tranmere on cup runs and has more experience than Stan (plus, he is a better dancer)

[elwood blues]

They should never have got a nobody manager like Stan, who quite clearly IMO has not got the personality for this job

We all said it at the time

They promised World Class but realistically, anyone would have been better

Shell out some cash and it could be got back a la endorsements if we had qualified for Euro 2008, quite a possibility with a half decent manager

The penny pinching cost Ireland

Brian Kerr should not have been sacked if there were no better options around

and yes, i do think Aldridge would have done better, he brought Tranmere on cup runs and has more experience than Stan (plus, he is a better dancer)

and singer ;-)

[STEVIEG]

and singer ;-)

Shows how much TV i watch

(Though the Aldridge shuffle was a good move)

[cit_gym_rat]

They should never have got a nobody manager like Stan, who quite clearly IMO has not got the personality for this job

We all said it at the time ( it's no reflection on him really, i would have taken the job too)

They promised World Class but realistically, anyone would have been better

Shell out some cash and it could be got back a la endorsements if we had qualified for Euro 2008, quite a possibility with a half decent manager

The penny pinching cost Ireland

Brian Kerr should not have been sacked if there were no better options around

and yes, i do think Aldridge would have done better, he brought Tranmere on cup runs and has more experience than Stan (plus, he is a better dancer)

and broght them to the second devision if i remember correctly

[STEVIEG]

and broght them to the second devision if i remember correctly

We are now effectively at the Third Division of European footy

He still has more experience than Stan did at the time

and a better personality for the harshness of the job IMO

[cit_gym_rat]

We are now effectively at the Third Division of European footy

He still has more experience than Stan did at the time

and a better personality for the harshness of the job IMO
i suppose he could have always sung ring of fire

[Rebel Yell]

Bring back Eoin Hand...

[Rebelred]

Brady anyone?

[STEVIEG]

i suppose he could have always sung ring of fire




They've got me singin' da Blues

[STEVIEG]

Brady anyone?

Personality is pretty terrible, as is his managerial record (kids aside), but it's not exactly the most outlandish of suggestions

I'd love to see Dunphy be given a chance:)

[Rebelred]

Personality is pretty terrible, as is his managerial record (kids aside), but it's not exactly the most outlandish of suggestions

I'd love to see Dunphy be given a chance:)

With Gilesy in as the "Honest of effort" coach of course

[STEVIEG]

With Gilesy in as the "Honest of effort" coach of course

I kept waiting for the them to talk in detail about Giles's record as Irish manager last night

[jimmy magee]

looked last night like the players were as sick of it as us, bitching amongst each other. Miller rightly snubbed Reid at one stage. Doyler looking around in despair. 'A Shambles, Bill'

[Lamps]

now the Keaneites are beginning to understand why Mick McCarthy was such a great Irish Manager

Chalk it down.

[STEVIEG]

You'd never know, sometime the Roy Keane WUMS might even realise how good a player he actually was!

[3pointplay]

looked last night like the players were as sick of it as us, bitching amongst each other. Miller rightly snubbed Reid at one stage. Doyler looking around in despair. 'A Shambles, Bill'

Doyle could have scored in the first half only for that muppet Robbie Keane running in and getting to the cross in ahead of him.

[Lamps]

You'd never know, sometime the Roy Keane WUMS might even realise how good a player he actually was!

What was Keane doing in the playoff against Turkey?
What was Keane doing letting Israel concede a last mintue goal in the last Kerr campaign.

Its always the same, if Keane wasn't there, he would have saved the day, if he was there the bad result was down to something else. Change the record Stevie.

Ireland didn't exectly set the world alight during Keane's career.

[POL]

Its simple in the world of the Keanite

Ireland wins = all down to Keane
Ireland lose = blame someone else

[Lamps]

Its simple in the world of the Keanite

Ireland wins = all down to Keane
Ireland lose = blame someone else#

or if he was faking injury/after walking out/ resting

and Ireland lose = Cos Keane wasn't there
and Ireland win = Would have won by more if Keane was there

same is happening now.

He slags off the team the day before a game and its too motivate them.
so if Ireland lose = they are shit
Ireland win = thanks to Roys teamtalk.


Some mockery all the same

[legend76]

can I amend my vote to "Decent effort at qualification"?? that would be nice for a change !!! I was at the game last night, what a f*cking joke. If Cyprus had any sort of quality upfront, they would have been three nil up. the one that hit the post would have been buried by a decent striker, but the woeful attemp at chipping the stranded Shay Given was even worse!! awful attemps and a decent save from Given's foot kept Ireland in the game.

I actually laughed out loud at the bus stop this morning, much to the alarm of those around me, when i heard Stan say on the radio "THINGS CAN ONLY GET BETTER", he not wrong there. it's terrible when it gets to a stage where an Irish team gets BOOed off at half time at home. I'd never condone that kind of reaction towards your own players, but last night it felt like it was directed towards the ginger buffoon in the technical area.

I wonder is it time to declare a state of emergency, call in the Army to sort that lad out

http://file038b.bebo.com/4/large/2007/10/18/10/2539365278a585443331 0l.jpg

[STEVIEG]

Roy Keane was a giant of a player for Ireland

[Lamps]

Roy Keane was a giant of a player for Ireland

Keane, Keane, Keane. And you say the SFI are obsessed.

You be more in line examining why you believe Ireland should be taking home world cups every 4 years.

[STEVIEG]

Keane, Keane, Keane. And you say the SFI are obsessed.

You be more in line examining why you believe Ireland should be taking home world cups every 4 years.

Whoosh


Keane helped a team qualify for two World Cups and he was a decent player for Ireland

Name a few stupid examples all you wish (no mention of Holland, Italy etc), but he was a decent player for Ireland and deserves more respect than he gets here from his fellow Corkmen

[STEVIEG]

Its always the same, if Keane wasn't there, he would have saved the day, .

Nonsense

He made loads of mistakes for Ireland too (Russia sending off etc)

And for United (Porto sending off, OG against Real Madrid, Haaland x 2)

he wasn't even nearly perfect

But he certainly wasn't the figure you make him out to be

[POL]

Whoosh


Keane helped a team qualify for two Wolrd Cups and he was a decent player for Ireland

seems we are slowly getting somewhere, at least he has climbed down from claiming Keane Singlehandedly dragged Ireland to two world cups, only for McCarthy's management skills in 2002 we would have been no where

[STEVIEG]

seems we are slowly getting somewhere, at least he has climbed down from claiming Keane Singlehandedly dragged Ireland to two world cups, only for McCarthy's management skills in 2002 we would have been no where

He was a key figure

Cyprus away being a case in point

Not to mention Portugal and Holland

[POL]

did Keane Singlehandidly score the goal against Holland? Keane's contribution to that game consisted of turning Overmars on his arse at the start of the game, FFS I could have done that, thanks to Keane's spins doctors this has magically turned in the the "welcome to Dublin" tackle that inspired all round him, another example of the total and utter guff that the Keane myth is founded on

[Lamps]

He was a key figure

Cyprus away being a case in point

Not to mention Portugal and Holland

Sure he had good games, and he was a decent player as you say.

But there were a heck of a lot more bad days during his 10 years around the team.

You forgot the missed peno against romania

[STEVIEG]

Sure he had good games, and he was a decent player as you say.

But there were a heck of a lot more bad days during his 10 years around the team.

You forgot the missed peno against romania

There were plenty more fuck ups

Romania is a good example

But bad > good?

No way

[Lamps]

But bad > good?

No way

I disagree, we'll take it to the other thread.

[afeencalleddan]

exactly my point - NONE

you cant solely blame steve for a bunch of donkeys he has to pick from. There isnt many of them playing at a constant high level in england ffs.Organisation and coaching of a team is everything, not necessarliy the quality of individuals. You only have to look at one of the finalists in your favourite sport to appreciate that. Any professional sports team can be coached and set up to be seemingly greater than the sum of its parts. At the moment Ireland have an output less than the sum of its parts which is unacceptable.

[jimmy magee]

At the moment Ireland have an output less than the sum of its parts which is unacceptable.

.