Munster's new shiny backline

[cantankerous bastard]

Its been a good summer at the shop, here's a suggested lineup lifted from another forum...

POST RWC
9. Peter Stringer
10. Ronan O'Gara
11. Lifeimi Mafi
12. Rua Tipoki
13. Paul Warwick
14. Brian Carney
15. Doug Howlett

20. Tomás O'Leary
21. Jeremy Manning
22. Barry Murphy or Kieran Lewis

DURING RWC
9. Tomás O'Leary
10. Paul Warwick
11. Lifeimi Mafi
12. Rua Tipoki
13. Barry Murphy or Kieran Lewis
14. Keith Earls
15. Mossie Lawlor

20. Gerry Hurley
21. Jeremy Manning
22. Barry Murphy or Keiran Lewis

Not sure if I agree 100% with that post world cup line, but in general would one go so far as to say across the panel could be strongest munster backline ever - on paper at least?

If it werent for the fact our group in the heineken cup is an unmerciful bastard I'd be feeling pretty damn good at the potential.

[liam2me]

paul warwick is the backup OH FFS, he won't be starting centre for the HEC. howlett will be on the wing, mafi or barry murphy will be at 13, not sure who will be at FB though, post WC

[Liathroidi Mor]

Denis Hurley will be there according to some of the players!!!

[Rebelred]

So the imports are slowly making up the first team and the local boys will be on the reserve team, surely all these imports are against the Munster way of doing things???

[Lamps]

So the imports are slowly making up the first team and the local boys will be on the reserve team, surely all these imports are against the Munster way of doing things???

Funny i was thinking the same, i hear a lot of shit about Munster being representative of emm, Munster(well the middle classes anyway), but they'll be no more different to any other professional outfit in time.

By the way Neil Francis did a nice piece of the drugs coverups in the Rugger world this week in the tribune. May deserve its own thread actually

[cantankerous bastard]

So the imports are slowly making up the first team and the local boys will be on the reserve team, surely all these imports are against the Munster way of doing things???
Yeah I had noticed that too, what can one do though, munster breeds too many fatties, we need more home grown munster backs!

[liam2me]

Yeah I had noticed that too, what can one do though, munster breeds too many fatties, we need more home grown munster backs!
we would have the best backs in the world if the GAA lads came on board, will never happen though

[Barry Scott]

we would have the best backs in the world if the GAA lads came on board, will never happen though
They'd rather play a real sport.

[HappyMonday83]

we would have the best backs in the world if the GAA lads came on board, will never happen though

I doubt it, hurling and football are nothing like rugby.

[liam2me]

I doubt it, hurling and football are nothing like rugby.
feck off would ya, the handling skills are very similar between rugby and football

[captainshamrock]

By the way Neil Francis did a nice piece of the drugs coverups in the Rugger world this week in the tribune. May deserve its own thread actually

He writes like a 8 year old. Two sentences in and you know it's Francis. Was a lazy player as well.

He point was every single sport is full of drugs and as there haven't been any major people caught in rugby then it must be a huge cover up. I have no way of knowing if there is a drug problem at the top levels but if Francis says there is I'd tend to believe there is none.

[mirps]

feck off would ya, the handling skills are very similar between rugby and football

Not really, football is much easier. A round ball fisting it to a fella 5 yards away from you, left, right, back and forwards. Rugby is much harder, in my opinion. Running full tilt trying to make a pass with full line of defence in front of you.

[batinbird]

feck off would ya, the handling skills are very similar between rugby and football

and so is the tackling.;)

[nemo7]

there is random drug testin at international level of rugby from Schools up a few years back a French 18 year old got a 3 year ban for testin posititve

[liam2me]

Not really, football is much easier. A round ball fisting it to a fella 5 yards away from you, left, right, back and forwards. Rugby is much harder, in my opinion. Running full tilt trying to make a pass with full line of defence in front of you.
yes rugby is harder, but not hard for a GAA player to convert, see dennis leamy, you can tell he was a GAA player when he was younger by the way he handles the ball in matches.

anyway my point was actually if the intercounty footballers took up rugby instead of football at a young age then we would have the best backs in the world

[nemo7]

Even at underage in Munster the best players are rarely backs in Munster and if they are it usually stops at out half .

[Proinsias]

Funny i was thinking the same, i hear a lot of shit about Munster being representative of emm, Munster(well the middle classes anyway), but they'll be no more different to any other professional outfit in time.

By the way Neil Francis did a nice piece of the drugs coverups in the Rugger world this week in the tribune. May deserve its own thread actually

Neil Francis??

*snigger*

Can't say I know a single proper rugby head that takes that joker seriously.

A maximum of 3 foreign backs is the locals being pushed out?

Right.


Liam, if GAA players converted from an early age, they'd just be normal rugby players. There's little doubt that minor intercounty players are incredibly fit sportsmen, with great handling skills.

They're frequently missing an awful lot from their game in rugby (playing against kerry rugby teams teaches you to get your big forwards running at their GAA converts, they tend to be weaker tacklers and pretty poor in a ruck) but they do make fine wingers and full backs.

However, I wouldn't advocate full scale poaching, I don't really like it with the League converts, it helps neither sport to have them pissed off at each other.

[POL]

Neil Francis??

*snigger*

Can't say I know a single proper rugby head that takes that joker seriously.

A maximum of 3 foreign backs is the locals being pushed out?

Right.


Liam, if GAA players converted from an early age, they'd just be normal rugby players. There's little doubt that minor intercounty players are incredibly fit sportsmen, with great handling skills.

They're frequently missing an awful lot from their game in rugby (playing against kerry rugby teams teaches you to get your big forwards running at their GAA converts, they tend to be weaker tacklers and pretty poor in a ruck) but they do make fine wingers and full backs.

However, I wouldn't advocate full scale poaching, I don't really like it with the League converts, it helps neither sport to have them pissed off at each other.what about their ball handling skills, is the ability to take a 5 yard pass running at filt tilt a pre requsite? its one of the hardest skills in rugby

[Armitage Conway the 2nd]

Not really, football is much easier. A round ball fisting it to a fella 5 yards away from you, left, right, back and forwards. Rugby is much harder, in my opinion. Running full tilt trying to make a pass with full line of defence in front of you.

Not hard if the timing is right. Also You will find that the rugby ball is alot easier to catch, especially with one hand, because it has edges. The spherical Gaa ball is also alot smoother and easier to knock out of someones grasp.

[Proinsias]

Not hard if the timing is right. Also You will find that the rugby ball is alot easier to catch, especially with one hand, because it has edges. The spherical Gaa ball is also alot smoother and easier to knock out of someones grasp.

Indeed, however, the precision needed to throw a long, looping pass that hits someone running on to it, without the opposition intercepting it on a flat backline is incredibly difficult.

Quite analagous to a (shorter) quarterback pass in American Football

POL, I would say that if you tried a flat, fast pass to someone sprinting on to it at full speed, you'd find that, while you're trying to be mocking about it, it can be much more difficult as you'd think.

[Armitage Conway the 2nd]

Indeed, however, the precision needed to throw a long, looping pass that hits someone running on to it, without the opposition intercepting it on a flat backline is incredibly difficult.

Quite analagous to a (shorter) quarterback pass in American Football

POL, I would say that if you tried a flat, fast pass to someone sprinting on to it at full speed, you'd find that, while you're trying to be mocking about it, it can be much more difficult as you'd think.

I could say its the same difficulty to handpass a ball to a player running full tilt into the opposing box being tracked by defenders, which in my opinion is more difficult as you may know when punching a Gaa ball, it doesnt necessary always go where expected.

To state that rugby requires a skill that GAA player cannot master is ridiculous. Any sportsman can master the skills we are discussing if he has timing

[Proinsias]

I could say its the same difficulty to handpass a ball to a player running full tilt into the opposing box being tracked by defenders, which in my opinion is more difficult as you may know when punching a Gaa ball, it doesnt necessary always go where expected.

To state that rugby requires a skill that GAA player cannot master is ridiculous. Any sportsman can master the skills we are discussing if he has timing

Never said that for a second.
I frequently find that GAA players can pass the ball fairly well. Their timing tends to be a bit off, but the accuracy is there.

However, the tackling skills are usually lacking a bit, especially when they've a big lad running at them low, they tend to tackle big lads a bit high and can be fairly poor for turnstyle tackling. Also, their rucking is frequently abysmal. Offside, coming in from the side, going over the top, getting dragged in, covering the ball, holding on to the ball on the ground, that sort of thing. League players also tend to have problems with the rucks too.
The ability to do those sorts of things, along with most of the forwards set pieces means that, while they make quite good wingers and full backs (in fact, I would say excellent full backs), they lack many of the fundamental skills in many areas of the game.

Not saying they can't be learned, they can. You don't find many (I don't think I've met any in playing life, but John Hayes is one, although he went into second row first) players who go from playing Gaelic sports to handling it in prop.

I think the most common positions for a first time GAA player in the forwards are at second row and No.8, they make good lineout jumpers if they don't try to kick their lifters in the knackers.

[liam2me]

Neil Francis??

*snigger*

Can't say I know a single proper rugby head that takes that joker seriously.

A maximum of 3 foreign backs is the locals being pushed out?

Right.


Liam, if GAA players converted from an early age, they'd just be normal rugby players. There's little doubt that minor intercounty players are incredibly fit sportsmen, with great handling skills.

They're frequently missing an awful lot from their game in rugby (playing against kerry rugby teams teaches you to get your big forwards running at their GAA converts, they tend to be weaker tacklers and pretty poor in a ruck) but they do make fine wingers and full backs.

However, I wouldn't advocate full scale poaching, I don't really like it with the League converts, it helps neither sport to have them pissed off at each other.
i'm not talking about converting them i'm talking about lads who are naturally gifted sports players and getting them to play rugby before they take up GAA, the sheer fact that there are so many at or near intercounty level, there are bound to be 5 of them who could naturally have the skill set to make it at the highest level

[Proinsias]

i'm not talking about converting them i'm talking about lads who are naturally gifted sports players and getting them to play rugby before they take up GAA, the sheer fact that there are so many at or near intercounty level, there are bound to be 5 of them who could naturally have the skill set to make it at the highest level

Sort of. I kinda see where you're coming from, but you take them too early, then they don't benefit as much from GAA training methods. You take them too late and it's incredibly difficult for them to pick up the techniques that the rugby lads have inately. See the number of successful league converts as an example (I estimate it's only about 20-30% translate their success in League to Union)

The sheer weight of numbers argument doesn't work in England, they've a 10 times higher playing base than Ireland do.

[liam2me]

Sort of. I kinda see where you're coming from, but you take them too early, then they don't benefit as much from GAA training methods. You take them too late and it's incredibly difficult for them to pick up the techniques that the rugby lads have inately. See the number of successful league converts as an example (I estimate it's only about 20-30% translate their success in League to Union)

The sheer weight of numbers argument doesn't work in England, they've a 10 times higher playing base than Ireland do.
i'm not talking about them playing any GAA whatsoever, i'm talking about them choosing rugby at 6,7,8 y/o and playing that instead, and with the amount of players available to GAA, if they were to play rugby then i'm sure there would be way more then 5 naturally gifted lads who are good at all sports that could make it to the top in rugby

[mirps]

i'm not talking about them playing any GAA whatsoever, i'm talking about them choosing rugby at 6,7,8 y/o and playing that instead, and with the amount of players available to GAA, if they were to play rugby then i'm sure there would be way more then 5 naturally gifted lads who are good at all sports that could make it to the top in rugby

We've a guy playing with us the last 2 years who played senior football for Waterford (yes I know, doesn't say much), he's great rugby player now. Started out on the wing and is now in the center.

He's easily good enough for AIL at this stage, in my opinion, which is a fair enough achievement considering he was 23 the first time picked up a rugby ball.

[Proinsias]

i'm not talking about them playing any GAA whatsoever, i'm talking about them choosing rugby at 6,7,8 y/o and playing that instead, and with the amount of players available to GAA, if they were to play rugby then i'm sure there would be way more then 5 naturally gifted lads who are good at all sports that could make it to the top in rugby

Sheer weight of numbers will not make Ireland *that* much better. Japan has 25% more registered players than Ireland and a 30 point win against them would be a mediocre performance at best.

More players does not necessarily translate into more better players.

[liam2me]

Sheer weight of numbers will not make Ireland *that* much better. Japan has 25% more registered players than Ireland and a 30 point win against them would be a mediocre performance at best.

More players does not necessarily translate into more better players.
yes but japan isn't a nation where sport comes above almost everything else and japan doesn't exactly produce WC sports persons in many fields, the GAA has so many naturally gifted sports men it's an embarrassment of riches

[nemo7]

From playin both sports i would say that by playin both sports you have a better chance of being a better player at both especially when timing runs and especially decision making .Handling is similar except rugby requires 'softer' hands .By playin rugby you would also find it easier braking through tackles in GAA and also easier to stand up big and not let people pass so I think both sports complement eachother and to be fair are a great mix

[cit_gym_rat]

liam of course if rugby was the national sport we would have a better pool of players, but unfortuanally (from an egg chashers point of view) rugby rates 4th at best in ireland (perhaps above hurling in some counties but not in munster). That is life.

The same arguement could be made by most countries in the world except perhaps NZ. If say for example italys nations sport was rugby and not soccer then im sure italy would be a bigger power in world rugby as their youth would play rugby instead of soccer hence developing the skills required for rugby and not soccer.

[liam2me]

liam of course if rugby was the national sport we would have a better pool of players, but unfortuanally (from an egg chashers point of view) rugby rates 4th at best in ireland (perhaps above hurling in some counties but not in munster). That is life.

The same arguement could be made by most countries in the world except perhaps NZ. If say for example italys nations sport was rugby and not soccer then im sure italy would be a bigger power in world rugby as their youth would play rugby instead of soccer hence developing the skills required for rugby and not soccer.
well my argument against that is soccer is a hugely different skill set to rugby, whereas football is very similar to rugby in skill and much closer in physicality

[Lamps]

liam of course if rugby was the national sport we would have a better pool of players, but unfortuanally (from an egg chashers point of view) rugby rates 4th at best in ireland (perhaps above hurling in some counties but not in munster). That is life.

The same arguement could be made by most countries in the world except perhaps NZ. If say for example italys nations sport was rugby and not soccer then im sure italy would be a bigger power in world rugby as their youth would play rugby instead of soccer hence developing the skills required for rugby and not soccer.

So its finally dawning on some jocks at least that little old Ireland aren't actually some freak of sporting nature and that the reason they're in the top 6 in the world is cos about 10 countries if that take the sport 'seriously'.

This was a point driven home well and truly in the early SFI rugby debates.

Dave Hannigan did a nice little number on this fallacy lately.

They should really drop this whole world cup notion claptrap. Call it the quartennial 10 nation plate because that's what it is. at best.

[POL]

World cup my arse, "cup for 10 former British colonies" more like

[homer jay]

World cup my arse, "cup for 10 former British colonies" more like

that's cricket you're thinking of.

[POL]

that's cricket you're thinking of.its not

[liam2me]

So its finally dawning on some jocks at least that little old Ireland aren't actually some freak of sporting nature and that the reason they're in the top 6 in the world is cos about 10 countries if that take the sport 'seriously'.

This was a point driven home well and truly in the early SFI rugby debates.

Dave Hannigan did a nice little number on this fallacy lately.

They should really drop this whole world cup notion claptrap. Call it the quartennial 10 nation plate because that's what it is. at best.
rugby is a growing sport, i wonder if soccer, after 12 years of professionalism, was at the same level? (i'm genuinely asking as i don't know)

[Lamps]

rugby is a growing sport, i wonder if soccer, after 12 years of professionalism, was at the same level? (i'm genuinely asking as i don't know)

Professionalism?

Can't wait to see the Portugeese pro's take on the all blacks

Argentina being held back at every opportunity by the traditional teams.

The top 8 have it made and want to keep it that way.

[BangorFeen]

Professionalism?

Can't wait to see the Portugeese pro's take on the all blacks

Argentina being held back at every opportunity by the traditional teams.

The top 8 have it made and want to keep it that way.
Portugal aren't a pro team, they are mostly amateurs though Diogo Mateus was with Munster for about 6 months. He never played though

[BangorFeen]

its not
France - Well-known British colony
Argentina - They still speak of 700,000 years of Brit Oppression from Patagonia to Buenos Aires...

[POL]

France - Well-known British colony
Argentina - They still speak of 700,000 years of Brit Oppression from Patagonia to Buenos Aires...
The French starting playing rugger because they thought it was a sophisticated game played by gentlemen, they wanted to ape the British ways

[BangorFeen]

The French starting playing rugger because they thought it was a sophisticated game played by gentlemen, they wanted to ape the British ways
Sure....

They told you this I'm sure in any event, could you please name the ten British colonies you allude to?

England
Scotland
Wales
Ireland
SA
NZ
Australia

That's seven by my reckoning. I'm only including here those with any sort of a realistic chance of success.

POL - Exposed

[POL]

Canada is another one, sorry my mistake "the 8 former British colonies and 2 wannabe colonies cup" it should be called, WORLD CUP MY ARSE

[Lamps]

Portugal aren't a pro team, they are mostly amateurs though Diogo Mateus was with Munster for about 6 months. He never played though

I know

[POL]

Sure....

They told you this I'm sure in any event, could you please name the ten British colonies you allude to?

England
Scotland
Wales
Ireland
SA
NZ
Australia

That's seven by my reckoning. I'm only including here those with any sort of a realistic chance of success

POL - Exposed:lol!:

[legend76]

Sure....

They told you this I'm sure in any event, could you please name the ten British colonies you allude to?

England
Scotland
Wales
Ireland
SA
NZ
Australia

That's seven by my reckoning. I'm only including here those with any sort of a realistic chance of success.

POL - Exposed

France was actually under "english" rule longer than South Africa !!! You can't really describe South Africa as a British Colony. it was a Dutch Colony until the end of the second Boer war and that was 1902 !!! strickly speaking it was a 'dominion' rather than a colony, as it was a self-governing or autonomous state within the British Empire.

[POL]

exposed

[Sound]

We should go invade some tiny countries. A hurling world cup in a few generations would fucking rock!

[Proinsias]

I must admit, I celebrated quite heartily when Italy won it's independence from the British Empire.

The 125,000 Japanese rugby players will be mightily confused as exactly when the British Empire ruled there too.

[BangorFeen]

France was actually under "english" rule longer than South Africa !!! You can't really describe South Africa as a British Colony. it was a Dutch Colony until the end of the second Boer war and that was 1902 !!! strickly speaking it was a 'dominion' rather than a colony, as it was a self-governing or autonomous state within the British Empire.
POL said British, not English. Even going on the highly contestable assumption that at that time England = Britain (the Scots were rather independent at that time...) the concept of the nation state was non-existent and the only Englishmonarch who could claim any sort of control in France was Henry V.... Oh and rugby was neither codified nor a proper game at that point either. FFS. Mockery

POL's exposure continues appace

[BangorFeen]

I must admit, I celebrated quite heartily when Italy won it's independence from the British Empire.

The 125,000 Japanese rugby players will be mightily confused as exactly when the British Empire ruled there too.
POL has never let reality get in the way of a good gurn or Tan jibe up to now so why start?

[POL]

POL said British, not English. Even going on the highly contestable assumption that at that time England = Britain (the Scots were rather independent at that time...) the concept of the nation state was non-existent and the only Englishmonarch who could claim any sort of control in France was Henry V.... Oh and rugby was neither codified nor a proper game at that point either. FFS. Mockery

POL's exposure continues appaceoh god, battling with sematics when exposed, a sure sign of rattlement

[POL]

I must admit, I celebrated quite heartily when Italy won it's independence from the British Empire.

The 125,000 Japanese rugby players will be mightily confused as exactly when the British Empire ruled there too.who mentioned Italy or Japan?

[BangorFeen]

oh god, battling with sematics when exposed, a sure sign of rattlement
POL -battling with just plain wrongness. There aren't ten "former British colinies capable of winning the thing by any stretch of the immagination

[POL]

POL -battling with just plain wrongness. There aren't ten "former British colinies capable of winning the thing by any stretch of the immaginationyou were caught with your trousers down, move on

[BangorFeen]

you were caught with your trousers down, move on
How precisely? France was never a British colony. Deal with it

[POL]

How precisely? France was never a British colony. Deal with ityou took your eye off the ball, schoolboy error

[BangorFeen]

you took your eye off the ball, schoolboy error
Answer the question:

Was France ever a British colony - Yes/No?

[POL]

Answer the question:

Was France ever a British colony - Yes/No?its not as simple as that

[Lamps]

Bangor Lad, you're being given a schooling here, I'd quit before you're even more exposed

[Proinsias]

who mentioned Italy or Japan?

I did.


Wish Japan had won their bid for the World Cup. Might have finally dispelled the colonial game label that's been stuck on rugby. Would probably help spread the game too.

And there's only about 6 realistic challengers for the world cup, not 10.

[Lamps]

I did.


Wish Japan had won their bid for the World Cup. Might have finally dispelled the colonial game label that's been stuck on rugby. Would probably help spread the game too.

And there's only about 6 realistic challengers for the world cup, not 10.

why won't the tri nations leave the Argies in?

are they at all interested in global promotion?

[POL]

I did.


Wish Japan had won their bid for the World Cup. Might have finally dispelled the colonial game label that's been stuck on rugby. Would probably help spread the game too.

And there's only about 6 realistic challengers for the world cup, not 10.
more like two or three at most you fucking chancer

[Proinsias]

why won't the tri nations leave the Argies in?

are they at all interested in global promotion?

Yeah, they should also have included a Pacific Islanders team a couple of years back too.

There's an awful lot of promotion going on at a global level (speaking as someone who plays for a German rugby team, mostly populated by Germans), but I agree, it could be an awful lot better. I also feel that the European cups don't promote rugby in developing nations as well as it could.

more like two or three at most you fucking chancer
New Zealand, South Africa, France, Australia are definite contenders, I think Ireland and England are outside contenders. However, I would rate England's chances as higher than Ireland's. Their team might be shite, but they'll still have the dogged self belief that can pull them through in situations where Ireland, I fear, will crumble.

[BangorFeen]

its not as simple as that
Yes, yes it is.

Speaking of "British" at a time when the phrase had no real meaning and certainly not the meaning you ascribed to it is just plain wrong.

[POL]

Yes, yes it is.

Speaking of "British" at a time when the phrase had no real meaning and certainly not the meaning you ascribed to it is just plain wrong.is this what you are reduced to?

[BangorFeen]

is this what you are reduced to?
Yes. Being right.

[POL]

Yes. Being right.

you are not right

[BangorFeen]

Oh but I am and I would really like for you to outline how I am not?

When. Was. France. A. British. Colony?

[POL]

Oh but I am and I would really like for you to outline how I am not?

When. Was. France. A. British. Colony?You are completely wrong,
Nigeria was a British colony and so was Hong Kong, they were involved in the rugby world cup of 2007

[POL]

I think its time for the coup de grace, lets see how many former British colonies were actually involved in this world cup? someone is going to end up with a lot of egg on his face

[POL]

It must be noted that Banger Feen was the one who mentioned France, a Liam2me tactic, building a argument on a false statement he made himself

[BangorFeen]

You are completely wrong,
Nigeria was a British colony and so was Hong Kong, they were involved in the rugby world cup of 2007
Who's discussing Nigeria and Hong Kong? This is about France.

I smell rattlement

In any event, how are Nigeria and Hong Kong involved in the 2007 RWC precisely. It's certainly not as competitors?

[Lamps]

It must be noted that Banger Feen was the one who mentioned France, a Liam2me tactic, building a argument on a false statement he made himself

who did he think he is dealing?

schoolboy error from an experienced nasty jock

[BangorFeen]

I think its time for the coup de grace, lets see how many former British colonies were actually involved in this world cup? someone is going to end up with a lot of egg on his face
As you may have noticed, I limited the list on both sides to countries that had some sort of a chance of winning - this being in keeping with your view of it being a "club" for ex-British colonies.

[POL]

Who's discussing Nigeria and Hong Kong? This is about France.

I smell rattlement

In any event, how are Nigeria and Hong Kong involved in the 2007 RWC precisely. It's certainly not as competitors?
exposed and badly exposed at that, they were involved in qulaifying for it, just like Ireland are involved in the European championship at the moment in soccer, you introduced France into the equation to muddy the waters of British colonial involvement, just who do you think you are dealing with here?

[Proinsias]

I think its time for the coup de grace, lets see how many former British colonies were actually involved in this world cup? someone is going to end up with a lot of egg on his face

Well, all 94 rugby playing countries worldwide have been involved in this world cup, if you want to get picky about it.

Considering Britain once ruled 60% of the world's surface, well, I guess 60% of those countries would be a fair guess.

[POL]

Well, all 94 rugby playing countries worldwide have been involved in this world cup, if you want to get picky about it.

Considering Britain once ruled 60% of the world's surface, well, I guess 60% of those countries would be a fair guess.
Thanks Jim.

[HappyMonday83]

It must be noted that Banger Feen was the one who mentioned France, a Liam2me tactic, building a argument on a false statement he made himself

http://i12.tinypic.com/6eydlpv.gif

[BangorFeen]

exposed and badly exposed at that, they were involved in qulaifying for it, just like Ireland are involved in the European championship at the moment in soccer, you introduced France into the equation to muddy the waters of British colonial involvement, just who do you think you are dealing with here?
Qualifiers shmualifiers, it's about the last 20 teams now.

[mirps]

Yeah, looks like Munster will have a fine back line next year alright. Howlett at fullback I'd say...

[mirps]

So its finally dawning on some jocks at least that little old Ireland aren't actually some freak of sporting nature and that the reason they're in the top 6 in the world is cos about 10 countries if that take the sport 'seriously'.

This was a point driven home well and truly in the early SFI rugby debates.

Dave Hannigan did a nice little number on this fallacy lately.

They should really drop this whole world cup notion claptrap. Call it the quartennial 10 nation plate because that's what it is. at best.

A bit like the Soccer World Cup so?

[Lamps]

A bit like the Soccer World Cup so?

are you slow?

I think there have been 10 or 11 finalists not too mention those who have made the semi's and quarters.

plus geuine upsets do happen, do you think portugal will give the all blacks a run?

take a look at these

1) United States 1-England 0 (1950): After defeating Chile 2-0 in its first game, England, who previously mocked the idea of the World Cup and never doubted for a second that it was the best soccer nation in the world, fell 1-0 to the U.S. The result was so improbable - the Americans had lost their previous seven international matches by a combined scored of 45-2 - that when word reached back to England, people thought it was a misprint in the newspapers. This is soccer's equivalent of the 1980 U.S. Olympic hockey team's "Miracle on Ice".

2) North Korea 1-Italy 0 (1966): Little was known about the North Koreans before the tournament, but few expected them to provide much opposition to an Italian side featuring Gianni Rivera, Sandro Mazzola and Giacinto Facchetti. And yet, it was North Korea who prevailed, Pak Doo Ik's name still a painful reminder to a generation of Italians to this day almost four decades after he scored the winning goal just before halftime.

3) South Korea 2-Italy 1 (2002): The Azzurri looked to have it in the bag but then Seol Ki-Hyeon scored in the 89th minute to tie the contest. Compatriot Ahn Jung-Hwan scored the 'golden goal' in extra time to send South Korea through to the quarter-finals in the biggest upset at the World Cup since Korea's neighbours to the north defeated Italy 36 years earlier.

4) Algeria 2-West Germany 1 (1982): A mind-boggling result when you consider Algeria was playing in its first World Cup. This should tell you all you need to know about the disparity between the two teams: Algeria was listed as a 1000-1 long shot to win the World Cup prior to the tournament, while the West Germans were 3-1 favourites to win it all.

5) East Germany 1-West Germany 0 (1974): Nobody saw this one coming. How could the hosts lose to their lowly cousins from the other side of the Berlin Wall? Lose they did, although Franz Beckenbauer and his West German teammates had the last laugh - they won the World Cup.

6) Cameroon 1-Argentina 0 (1990): What a way to start a World Cup! In the tournament opener in Milan, Cameroon stunned Maradona and the reigning World champions, a result all the more remarkable when you consider the Africans finished the game with nine players. The Indomitable Lions used the momentum from that result to become the first African nation to reach the World Cup quarter-finals.
Continue Article

7) Senegal 1-France 0 (2002): Another reigning World champion falls at the feet of an unheralded African team in the tournament curtain-raiser. This time it was tiny Senegal, appearing in its first World Cup, who played David to France's Goliath, slinging Les Bleus to the ground.

8) Bulgaria 2-Germany 1 (1994): The Germans looked well on their way to reaching their fourth straight final at the World Cup when Lothar Matthaus scored early in the second half of this quarter-final. The Bulgarians, however, had other ideas, spoiling the party when they scored two goals three minutes apart late in the game to send the Germans crashing out.

9) Cuba 2-Romania 1 (1938): The Cubans only made it to the World Cup after Mexico withdrew from the competition and nobody gave the tiny Island nation much chance of scoring a goal, let alone winning a game at the tournament.

10) Northern Ireland 1-Spain 0 (1982): Northern Ireland had to play the final 30 minutes a man down, but it fought hard to preserve a slender 1-0 lead over the hosts and repelled wave after wave of Spanish attack to hold on for the victory.

[mirps]

10 or 11 finalists since 1930 is hardly mixing it up and adding to the excitement is it?

77 years of WC history and only 6 possible teams who can win it, maybe throw in Spain.

[Lamps]

10 or 11 finalists since 1930 is hardly mixing it up and adding to the excitement is it?

77 years of WC history and only 6 possible teams who can win it, maybe throw in Spain.

hostage to fortune here but


One team can win the rugger

[Sound]

I'm with the Lampster on this one. There's no comparison wiith the Soccer world cup.

[Lamps]

10 or 11 finalists since 1930 is hardly mixing it up and adding to the excitement is it?

77 years of WC history and only 6 possible teams who can win it, maybe throw in Spain.

But as I showed with the upsets, anyone can take anyone on a given day.

Portugal are ranked 20th in the world in rugby, they have about a one in 5 million chance of winning against NZ.

[Proinsias]

I'm with the Lampster on this one. There's no comparison wiith the Soccer world cup.

Well, if he's trying to be disparaging about the rugby world cup, comparing the real facts about the soccer world cup shows it up to be an awful lot of bitching.

So far, in 5 rugby world cups, there's been 4 different winners. That's not too bad in fairness.

I think by it's nature, rugby is far more difficult to get an upset occuring. In soccer, you can defend your socks, grab a lucky goal and defend some more. Not quite so straightforward in rugby.

[Proinsias]

But as I showed with the upsets, anyone can take anyone on a given day.

Portugal are ranked 20th in the world in rugby, they have about a one in 5 million chance of winning against NZ.

You could have said the same about Togo, Costa Rica or Saudi Arabia in the last soccer world cup, in fairness...

[mirps]

But as I showed with the upsets, anyone can take anyone on a given day.

Portugal are ranked 20th in the world in rugby, they have about a one in 5 million chance of winning against NZ.

I know, I'm only trying to make an argument out of nothing, which you're quite good at...

You did say the 10 nations cup though, there hasn't really been a 'proper' breakthrough by any soccer team ever. Still all the same big boys...

[Lamps]

You could have said the same about Togo, Costa Rica or Saudi Arabia in the last soccer world cup, in fairness...

would Costa Rica take Scotland in jockball?

[Lamps]

You did say the 10 nations cup though, there hasn't really been a 'proper' breakthrough by any soccer team ever. Still all the same big boys...

10 nations who are competitive.
Someone like Wales aint winning it.
Whats the good knoking 100 points up against Portugal



Switzerland or Ghana won't win the world cup but they'd be competitive.

[mirps]

10 nations who are competitive.
Someone like Wales aint winning it.
Whats the good knoking 100 points up against Portugal



Switzerland or Ghana won't win the world cup but they'd be competitive.

But sure, if they won't win it what's the point in having them there? To try and develop them, yeah?

Brasil 6 - China 0...

[Lamps]

But sure, if they won't win it what's the point in having them there? To try and develop them, yeah?

Brasil 6 - China 0...
listen up SFNE
post up the rugger upsets similar to the one i showed you for soccer.

then we'll talk.

biggest upset i can remember was Argies beating a useless Irish team or maybe western samoa against wales

it would be like poland beating portugal in the soccer world cup.

give it up

[POL]

The 14 man lineout against the argies, that was some night for Irish rugby

[Lamps]

But sure, if they won't win it what's the point in having them there? To try and develop them, yeah?

Brasil 6 - China 0...

which world cup would that be, the one where korea knocked out spain and italy

[mirps]

which world cup would that be, the one where korea knocked out spain and italy
Yeah that's the one, the ref made some fine decisions in those games...

Korea won so did they?

[Lamps]

The 14 man lineout against the argies, that was some night for Irish rugby

rugby is a game of skill:lol!:

[Sound]

Rugby is a game of territory and higher scoring. Territory will be rewarded no matter what and you cant defend a one nil scoreline. Soccer is the more popular game and upsets are easier and more likely.

[Lamps]

Yeah that's the one, the ref mad some fine decisions in those games...

Korea won so did they?

fock you're slow.

you keep floating between two points and don't even know it

[BangorFeen]

Biggest upsets I can think of both involve Wales
Romania beat them twice in the 1980s and Canada beat them in 1993. Whatever about Romania, who at the time had a handyish side (they beat Scotland when Scotland were still good), the Canada result is a genuine upset.

The point about different games is well made, by it's very nature a rugby match will go to the better side, draws are rare.

[BangorFeen]

Rugby is a game of territory and higher scoring. Territory will be rewarded no matter what and you cant defend a one nil scoreline. Soccer is the more popular game and upsets are easier and more likely.
Weeeeell. Territory is a big part of it but sides have defended narrow (one-score) leads in their own 22s for long periods but usually not when the gap in glass was large (Ireland v SA in 2004 for example). realistically though, if the margin is tight (less than 3) and you surrender territory too easily a side with a decent pack and OH will engineer a DG opportunity or two

[POL]

Weeeeell. Territory is a big part of it but sides have defended narrow (one-score) leads in their own 22s for long periods but usually not when the gap in glass was large (Ireland v SA in 2004 for example). realistically though, if the margin is tight (less than 3) and you surrender territory too easily a side with a decent pack and OH will engineer a DG opportunity or twoOnly if they have the physicality at the breakdown

[Proinsias]

Biggest upsets I can think of both involve Wales
Romania beat them twice in the 1980s and Canada beat them in 1993. Whatever about Romania, who at the time had a handyish side (they beat Scotland when Scotland were still good), the Canada result is a genuine upset.

The point about different games is well made, by it's very nature a rugby match will go to the better side, draws are rare.

And probably the biggest rugby upsets in international rugby (in which Neil Francis played) where Namibia beat Ireland twice in 1991.

[POL]

And probably the biggest rugby upsets in international rugby (in which Neil Francis played) where Namibia beat Ireland twice in 1991.
disgusting, just because Franno breaks ranks with the old boys network they try to blacken his name

[norrie rugger head]

Only if they have the physicality at the breakdown

why would the outhalf need physicality at the breakdown?

[BangorFeen]

And probably the biggest rugby upsets in international rugby (in which Neil Francis played) where Namibia beat Ireland twice in 1991.
Ireland were so deeply shit in 1991 it beggars belief

[Proinsias]

disgusting, just because Franno breaks ranks with the old boys network they try to blacken his name

No, it's cause he was part of the Irish rugby team in the dark days of the late 80, early to mid 90s that broke my heart every year in any competition they were participating in.


He was one of the main players who could only play for 60 minutes before capitulating.

No fucking wonder, he was drinking pints and eating chicken suppers instead of training.

[BangorFeen]

Only if they have the physicality at the breakdown
That's obvious from the surrendering of territory. You don't surrender territory in the tight unless the opposition pack has physicality at the breakdown and a destroyer of men at blindside. The OH would naturally have to be a wizard

[Lamps]

I think its fair to say that it was a more even palying field before the big counties started taking steroi...I mean before professionalism

[Lamps]

why would the outhalf need physicality at the breakdown?

why wouldn't he?

[Sound]

I think its fair to say that it was a more even palying field before the big counties started taking steroi...I mean before professionalism

Who knew Cork had a rugby team? Is Sully on it?

[BangorFeen]

I think its fair to say that it was a more even palying field before the big counties started taking steroi...I mean before professionalism
Not really. The SH - NH mismatch was much more pronounced and the recession of emerging teams like Romania was as much to do with internal issues as anything

[BangorFeen]

Who knew Cork had a rugby team? Is Sully on it?
Scrumhalf

[Lamps]

Who knew Cork had a rugby team? Is Sully on it?

If Sully played rugger he'd be in the top 5 players in the world.

[Tube a Pringles]

If Sully played rugger he'd be in the top 5 players in the world.

He'd probably out jump Francis AND Dave Tweedy....

[Sound]

If Sully played rugger he'd be in the top 5 players in the world.

I dont doubt it Mr Fitz.

[norrie rugger head]

why wouldn't he?

because if he is going for a DG, then he will be in the pocket.

[Lamps]

He'd probably out jump Francis AND Dave Tweedy....

maybe not Francis, but Teddy Mac would have out jumped John Eales despite being about 8 inches shorter than him.

And thats a fact

[Lamps]

because if he is going for a DG, then he will be in the pocket.
what if he wasn't?

[Lamps]

I dont doubt it Mr Fitz.

easy now creatineJohn

[Sound]

easy now creatineJohn

Dont slur Sully like that! They wont be happy in Cloyne.

[BangorFeen]

what if he wasn't?
Then he wouldn't be going for a DG. The most likely scenario is that he'd give it straight to his 12 or 7 to take it in and then reset

[norrie rugger head]

what if he wasn't?

Then he would not be taking a drop goal.

and POL was commenting that he would need physicallity at the break down when looking for a drop goal

[Sound]

He says that all the time NRH. It's his token phrase to lure people who know about rugby to correct him on.

[Lamps]

Dont slur Sully like that! They wont be happy in Cloyne.

sully gets his power from batter burgers and pints, like any real irish man.

he even packed in the gym

[Lamps]

Then he wouldn't be going for a DG. The most likely scenario is that he'd give it straight to his 12 or 7 to take it in and then reset

and what if he had to go in where it hurts

[Lamps]

Then he would not be taking a drop goal.

and POL was commenting that he would need physicallity at the break down when looking for a drop goal

ever hear of zinzan brooke

[BangorFeen]

and what if he had to go in where it hurts
Then his back row are not terribly good and they wouldn't be making much ground in the first place

[Lamps]

Then his back row are not terribly good and they wouldn't be making much ground in the first place

but he might have to do it. the rugger field is not a chess board

[norrie rugger head]

He says that all the time NRH. It's his token phrase to lure people who know about rugby to correct him on.


I know he says it all the time but most times he places it in a place where it can be ambigously argued. This time he was sloppy

[norrie rugger head]

the rugger field is not a chess board

No, it is much more complicated than that

[Lamps]

I know he says it all the time but most times he places it in a place where it can be ambigously argued. This time he was sloppy

hold on now jock you said when would an OH half need PATB, i said ever heard of ZZB. what's the problem?

[BangorFeen]

but he might have to do it. the rugger field is not a chess board
Yes, he might. In those circumstances the best case scenario is that your OH is a centre in disguise (eg Dr. Pony) and makes a beeline for the weak shoulder, breaks the tackle and a least makes a few yards to keep the defenders on the back foot or (more realistically) recycles cleanly for the forwards to bash it around the fringes for a few phases to allow him get back to his feet. You don't need to be Richie McCaw to achieve a clean recycle.

[Lamps]

Yes, he might. In those circumstances the best case scenario is that your OH is a centre in disguise (eg Dr. Pony) and makes a beeline for the weak shoulder, breaks the tackle and a least makes a few yards to keep the defenders on the back foot or (more realistically) recycles cleanly for the forwards to bash it around the fringes for a few phases to allow him get back to his feet. You don't need to be Richie McCaw to achieve a clean recycle.

so you're saying that an OH could need physicality at the breakdown?

cos that norrie lad certainly thinks its impossible?

ps anyone ever see ZZB kick a drop goal???????????????? ?????????

serious question avoidance

[skelp]

Lamps are you english?

[Lamps]

Lamps are you english?

what do you think

[mirps]

Parisse got 2 drop goals in last years HC, he's just a savage all round player though. The drop goal Matt Dunning got was the fucking mental...

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=qAvMKkC1kjA

[norrie rugger head]

hold on now jock you said when would an OH half need PATB, i said ever heard of ZZB. what's the problem?

i asked why would he need PATB if he was taking a drop goal.

[skelp]

Sure Im only asking, U seem to be stuck in all the foreign games anyway

[BangorFeen]

so you're saying that an OH could need physicality at the breakdown?

cos that norrie lad certainly thinks its impossible?

ps anyone ever see ZZB kick a drop goal???????????????? ?????????

serious question avoidance
It's not essential, no. Like I said, a clean recycle can be achieved without having much prowess in that area. An OHs ability to get a DG is nothing to do with PATB, he'll leave that to the pack becuase at the time he'll be about ten yards back from the breakdown.

It may be a FB (or wing) who's standing in the pocket for the DG but even in that circumstance, the OH will probably not be involved with securing possession or clearing out rucks. It's more likely he'd be in midfield to keep the opposition guessing, once again, far from the breakdown

ZZB was a legend. Most forwards should never kick a DG just ask Keith Wood.

[Lamps]

i asked why would he need PATB if he was taking a drop goal.

no you didn't you spoofer. you assumed POL meant that the OH needed PATB, i don't even think he said that, but for the laugh I, the common man, went along with it in order to expose you as a typical jock charlatan who doesn't have a clue about the game he plays.

I proved to you that there are some cases where an OH needs it, not WHEN he is taking a drop goal, thats just a cop out since you got pwned in the argument.

exposed and badly exposed by a GAA man

[Lamps]

Sure Im only asking, U seem to be stuck in all the foreign games anyway

I know a lot about a lot.

[norrie rugger head]

no you didn't you spoofer. you assumed POL meant that the OH needed PATB, i don't even think he said that, but for the laugh I, the common man, went along with it in order to expose you as a typical jock charlatan who doesn't have a clue about the game he plays.

I proved to you that there are some cases where an OH needs it, not WHEN he is taking a drop goal, thats just a cop out since you got pwned in the argument.

exposed and badly exposed by a GAA man

Well then, he really should be less ambigious in his comments.
http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showpost.php?p=16885 00&postcount=102

and assumptions seem to be the basis of both your arguments so i just commented in style.

[BangorFeen]

no you didn't you spoofer. you assumed POL meant that the OH needed PATB, i don't even think he said that, but for the laugh I, the common man, went along with it in order to expose you as a typical jock charlatan who doesn't have a clue about the game he plays.

I proved to you that there are some cases where an OH needs it, not WHEN he is taking a drop goal, thats just a cop out since you got pwned in the argument.

exposed and badly exposed by a GAA man
Rubbish. We were clearly discussing the OH's role in a drop goal setting. Jesus, for a fellah who apparently hates semantics you aren't half a man for them yourself.

On any given day, "PATB" is not a requisite of OH play, sure it's a nice optional extra but Munster won a HEC with a 10 patently lacking in PATB, why? Because if he's having to show it regularly then your pack is getting dicked

[norrie rugger head]

Rubbish. We were clearly discussing the OH's role in a drop goal setting. Jesus, for a fellah who apparently hates semantics you aren't half a man for them yourself.

On any given day, "PATB" is not a requisite of OH play, sure it's a nice optional extra but Munster won a HEC with a 10 patently lacking in PATB, why? Because if he's having to show it regularly then your pack is getting dicked

He is handing his own ass to himself on a plate

Ultimate pwnership

[BangorFeen]

He is handing his own ass to himself on a plate

Ultimate pwnership
Mweh, I just find this slavish rushing to defend POL kind of amusing.

POL and Lamps - The Lenny & George of the Sports Forum

[Lamps]

He is handing his own ass to himself on a plate

Ultimate pwnership

no dice, I proved an OH could need physicality at the breakdown, he could even fling it back to a forward to take the drop goal and gave you an example. I find it amazing to think you could have the audacity to say pwned after what has been dished out to you.

you've been badly exposed lad.

[cantankerous bastard]

So, how bout that new munster backline eh?

[BangorFeen]

no dice, I proved an OH could need physicality at the breakdown, he could even fling it back to a forward to take the drop goal and gave you an example. I find it amazing to think you could have the audacity to say pwned after what has been dished out to you.

you've been badly exposed lad.
Need?. He doesn't need it. You show me the international ten selected for his PATB. It's neither his role nor his function and at best it's an optional extra. Even Captain Stampy and D'Arcy are exceptional in their breakdown agression and they're centres! Flinging the ball back has everything to do with distribution skills, balance, composure and probably bravery but nothing to do with PATB.

[Lamps]

Need?. He doesn't need it. You show me the international ten selected for his PATB. It's neither his role nor his function and at best it's an optional extra. Even Captain Stampy and D'Arcy are exceptional in their breakdown agression and they're centres! Flinging the ball back has everything to do with distribution skills, balance, composure and probably bravery but nothing to do with PATB.

but he could need it?

[norrie rugger head]

no dice, I proved an OH could need physicality at the breakdown, he could even fling it back to a forward to take the drop goal and gave you an example. I find it amazing to think you could have the audacity to say pwned after what has been dished out to you.

you've been badly exposed lad.

http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~schwager/rattle.jpg

rattled (http://www.sound-effect.com/sounds1/animal/rattlesnake.wav)

[BangorFeen]

but he could need it?
No. If it comes to that then the OH's lack of PATB is the least of a sides problems. Even if he has all the PTAB a a 13 stone man getting done by a 19 stone prop is only ever going to go one way

[Lamps]

No. If it comes to that then the OH's lack of PATB is the least of a sides problems. Even if he has all the PTAB a a 13 stone man getting done by a 19 stone prop is only ever going to go one way



i asked you two pages would it be possible that could he need it(PATB) and you said

Yes, he might. In those circumstances the best case scenario is that your OH is a centre in disguise (eg Dr. Pony) and makes a beeline for the weak shoulder, breaks the tackle and a least makes a few yards to keep the defenders on the back foot or (more realistically) recycles cleanly for the forwards to bash it around the fringes for a few phases to allow him get back to his feet. You don't need to be Richie McCaw to achieve a clean recycle.

[Lamps]

rattled

zero dice.

you were badly exposed and you know it

[norrie rugger head]

i asked you two pages would it be possible that could he need it(PATB) and you said

he might also need to prop in a scrum but it would not be expected of him

so no, to be an out half he does not need PATB. If he goes into a situation where he uses PATB then he is fulfilling the role of someone else and not performing the duties of an OH

[norrie rugger head]

zero dice.

you were badly exposed and you know it

even more rattled here

SFI my arse

[BangorFeen]

i asked you two pages would it be possible that could he need it(PATB) and you said
Different context entirely. You are trying to take a very specific circumstance and extrapolate upwards. It doesn't work. FFS, if a pile of players fell on him then the referee might need PATB for crying out load

[Proinsias]

Need?. He doesn't need it. You show me the international ten selected for his PATB. It's neither his role nor his function and at best it's an optional extra. Even Captain Stampy and D'Arcy are exceptional in their breakdown agression and they're centres! Flinging the ball back has everything to do with distribution skills, balance, composure and probably bravery but nothing to do with PATB.

I've heard it argued a few times that it's a negative.


Wilkinson's willingness to attack much bigger guys constantly has basically ruined his shoulders. You don't want your out half getting involved in the physical stuff, you just want him to stay the hell out of the way and direct the game.

If an outhalf is constantly taking the ball up trying to break through using brute force, you're going to have shoddy second phase ball as whoever is at outhalf isn't the first choice for there, the outhalf is buried somewhere in a ruck.

Of course, in defence, you don't want him constantly tackling in the 8-12 channel either as that's where the big runners come through. Not to mention for turnovers, a tactical kick over the top can be excellent (as usually the full back is in an attacking position) and if he's at the bottom of the ruck, you're missing your kicker.

So basically, outhalves should stay out of rucks.

[norrie rugger head]

I've heard it argued a few times that it's a negative.


Wilkinson's willingness to attack much bigger guys constantly has basically ruined his shoulders. You don't want your out half getting involved in the physical stuff, you just want him to stay the hell out of the way and direct the game.

If an outhalf is constantly taking the ball up trying to break through using brute force, you're going to have shoddy second phase ball as whoever is at outhalf isn't the first choice for there, the outhalf is buried somewhere in a ruck.

Of course, in defence, you don't want him constantly tackling in the 8-12 channel either as that's where the big runners come through. Not to mention for turnovers, a tactical kick over the top can be excellent (as usually the full back is in an attacking position) and if he's at the bottom of the ruck, you're missing your kicker.

So basically, outhalves should stay out of rucks.



so basically Lamps has just been pwned x3

[norrie rugger head]

Where has he gone??


Lamps... LAMPSSSS!!!!

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/content/binary/tumbleweed_small.jpg

[Lamps]

because if he is going for a DG, then he will be in the pocket.

bump

[Lamps]

what if he wasn't?

bump

[Lamps]

Then he wouldn't be going for a DG. The most likely scenario is that he'd give it straight to his 12 or 7 to take it in and then reset

bump

[Lamps]

and what if he had to go in where it hurts

bump

[norrie rugger head]

bumping past pwnedship, desperate move here.

will it result in a more crushing pwnership and bone breaking rattlement

[Lamps]

Then his back row are not terribly good and they wouldn't be making much ground in the first place

bump

[Lamps]

but he might have to do it. the rugger field is not a chess board

bump

[Lamps]

Yes, he might. In those circumstances the best case scenario is that your OH is a centre in disguise (eg Dr. Pony) and makes a beeline for the weak shoulder, breaks the tackle and a least makes a few yards to keep the defenders on the back foot or (more realistically) recycles cleanly for the forwards to bash it around the fringes for a few phases to allow him get back to his feet. You don't need to be Richie McCaw to achieve a clean recycle.

bump

[Sound]

Liam-esque.

[Lamps]

so you're saying that an OH could need physicality at the breakdown?

cos that norrie lad certainly thinks its impossible?

ps anyone ever see ZZB kick a drop goal???????????????? ?????????

serious question avoidance

bump

[Lamps]

Liam-esque.

its

got

to

be

done


lads in denial everywhere

i know you know i'm right, don'tcha

[BangorFeen]

And the point of all this copious bumpage? It doesn't change a blind jot that outside of a very narrow set of circumstances where the OH is in a place he should not be he would not need PATB. Even in the circumstance you outline it's nice, but not essential to him rescuing the situation. You even outlined one of those scenarios yourself - flinging the ball back.

Would you like a bigger spade, Lamps?

[Lamps]

Rubbish. We were clearly discussing the OH's role in a drop goal setting. Jesus, for a fellah who apparently hates semantics you aren't half a man for them yourself.

On any given day, "PATB" is not a requisite of OH play, sure it's a nice optional extra but Munster won a HEC with a 10 patently lacking in PATB, why? Because if he's having to show it regularly then your pack is getting dicked

bump

[Sound]

its

got

to

be

done


lads in denial everywhere

i know you know i'm right, don'tcha

Not at all, old bean. You're making a tit of yourself.

[Lamps]

no dice, I proved an OH could need physicality at the breakdown, he could even fling it back to a forward to take the drop goal and gave you an example. I find it amazing to think you could have the audacity to say pwned after what has been dished out to you.

you've been badly exposed lad.

bump

[Proinsias]

Lamps, I've gone through why you don't want outhalves getting themselves into rucks. I note you've completely ignored it.

Fancy doing so?

[BangorFeen]

Lamps comprehensively routs the NPIRJs
http://www.blueenvironmenta l.com/images/imgAggregates01.jpg

[Lamps]

Lamps, I've gone through why you don't want outhalves getting themselves into rucks. I note you've completely ignored it.

Fancy doing so?

what has that got to do with anything.

I'm sure you don't want drico sticking his head in their either but he does it.

the point was that an OH could need PATB

(and BangorDan agreed with me before his U Turn)

[Proinsias]

what has that got to do with anything.

I'm sure you don't want drico sticking his head in their either but he does it.

the point was that an OH could need PATB

(and BangorDan agreed with me before his U Turn)

My point is that you don't want him at the breakdown.

You do want your centres to be expert ruckers. They're one of your two main sources of fast turnover ball (the other being the backrow)

[Lamps]

My point is that you don't want him at the breakdown.

You do want your centres to be expert ruckers. They're one of your two main sources of fast turnover ball (the other being the backrow)

BUT if you read the thread, as you clearly haven't, the point was what if he "had to go in where it hurts".

read the bumps.

All I'm getting now is he doesn't, its not advisable. Thats not the point. Read the thread.

All these jocks coming to Norrie's aid won't help him a bit, the whole debate started on what if?
but what if?
no but what if he really did have to?

He was exposed as clueless on jockball by a GAA man, anyone who reads this will see it. Even Bangor agreed with me. Its all there in black and white.

Shouting pwned doesn't change the facts

[Sound]

This is the most moronic thread this week. And that includes the one with Liam's photo.

[HappyMonday83]

BUT if you read the thread, as you clearly haven't, the point was what if he "had to go in where it hurts".

read the bumps.

All I'm getting now is he doesn't, its not advisable. Thats not the point. Read the thread.

All these jocks coming to Norrie's aid won't help him a bit, the whole debate started on what if?
but what if?
no but what if he really did have to?

He was exposed as clueless on jockball by a GAA man, anyone who reads this will see it. Even Bangor agreed with me. Its all there in black and white.

Shouting pwned doesn't change the facts

Spot on lamps, call them out.

[Lamps]

Spot on lamps, call them out.

these jocks don't have a clue.

[Proinsias]

This is the most moronic thread this week. And that includes the one with Liam's photo.

I missed that one I think.

Well, I have tried actually describing in proper rugby terms but to no avail.


Oh well.

[norrie rugger head]

BUT if you read the thread, as you clearly haven't, the point was what if he "had to go in where it hurts".

read the bumps.

All I'm getting now is he doesn't, its not advisable. Thats not the point. Read the thread.

All these jocks coming to Norrie's aid won't help him a bit, the whole debate started on what if?
but what if?
no but what if he really did have to?

He was exposed as clueless on jockball by a GAA man, anyone who reads this will see it. Even Bangor agreed with me. Its all there in black and white.

Shouting pwned doesn't change the facts


Keep digging, you may come out in australia where there will be loads more rugby types to laugh at you.

the OH does not need PATB to be an OH. If he goes into a ruck he is acting as a back row or center (they need PATB). He should not be rucking in the first place

[HappyMonday83]

Keep digging, you may come out in australia where there will be loads more rugby types to laugh at you.

the OH does not need PATB to be an OH. If he goes into a ruck he is acting as a back row or center (they need PATB). He should not be rucking in the first place

In a perfect world the OH shouldn't have to go near a ruck, but we don't live in a perfect world. If a player gets tackled and the OH is the nearest one too it what should he do? say "it's not my job, i'm an out half" and watch the ball get robbed?

[POL]

pwn3d

[POL]

In a perfect world the OH shouldn't have to go near a ruck, but we don't live in a perfect world. If a player gets tackled and the OH is the nearest one too it what should he do? say "it's not my job, i'm an out half" and watch the ball get robbed?game set and match

[Sound]

In a perfect world the OH shouldn't have to go near a ruck, but we don't live in a perfect world. If a player gets tackled and the OH is the nearest one too it what should he do? say "it's not my job, i'm an out half" and watch the ball get robbed?


Ollie Campbell lives!

[Tube a Pringles]

In a perfect world the OH shouldn't have to go near a ruck, but we don't live in a perfect world. If a player gets tackled and the OH is the nearest one too it what should he do? say "it's not my job, i'm an out half" and watch the ball get robbed?

He should jump in there, and feed the ball out to David Wallace (who is obviously arriving late!).....and ask him, politely, to find touch for him.

[HappyMonday83]

He should jump in there, and feed the ball out to David Wallace (who is obviously arriving late!).....and ask him, politely, to find touch for him.

No he should secure the ball, recycle it and either get back into position or get his full back to kick.

[norrie rugger head]

No he should secure the ball, recycle it and either get back into position or get his full back to kick.

not a requirement to be an outhalf though.
If a prop ends up on the wing and gets the ball he will run with it, that does not mean that he should be there or would be wanted out there.

[POL]

not a requirement to be an outhalf though.
If a prop ends up on the wing and gets the ball he will run with it, that does not mean that he should be there or would be wanted out there.just because its not a requirement doesn't mean anything, I'm so glad you jocks were exposed, and badly exposed, its going to be a long "world cup" for you lot

[norrie rugger head]

just because its not a requirement doesn't mean anything, I'm so glad you jocks were exposed, and badly exposed, its going to be a long "world cup" for you lot

It means everything, you are indeed a glue.
Optional extras are great but not needed to do the primary role.


Your bum chum Lamps was majorly pwned yesterday, you almost got away with it except for your "PATB" dumbass comment.

You want to make up for it today? There are plenty more plates available for your ass to be handed to you on

[POL]

your bum chum Lamps was majorly pwned yesterday, you almost got away with it except for your "PATB" dumbass comment.

You want to make up for it today? There are plenty more plates available for your ass to be handed to you onpulling a liam2me now!!!! I have seen it all!

[Lamps]

your bum chum Lamps was majorly pwned yesterday, you almost got away with it except for your "PATB" dumbass comment.

You want to make up for it today? There are plenty more plates available for your ass to be handed to you on

jesus, are you that dumb, read the thread. seriously.

you are showing signs of being the stupidest of all jocks here coming back for more like this.

it was shown that an outhalf COULD need PATB.

you lost. badly. I have a feeling that you didn't get a wink of sleep last night

[Proinsias]

jesus, are you that dumb, read the thread. seriously.

you are showing signs of being the stupidest of all jocks here coming back for more like this.

it was shown that an outhalf COULD need PATB.

you lost. badly. I have a feeling that you didn't get a wink of sleep last night

But then, I've explained why an outhalf with "PATB" (sic) could be, and usually is a negative thing.


Meh, this is such a non-entitiy of an arguement that it's actually making me dumber by engaging in it. It's a mediocre WUM at best.

[norrie rugger head]

it was shown that an outhalf COULD need PATB.

you lost. badly. I have a feeling that you didn't get a wink of sleep last night


It was shown that he does not need it to perform his role as OH.
If he goes into a ruck he is acting as cover for a back row and generally causes trouble in the back line in doing so

http://www.nerdtests.com/picsarea/287da529f800602de002 3515882b7edb.jpg

[Lamps]

But then, I've explained why an outhalf with "PATB" (sic) could be, and usually is a negative thing.


and thats neither here nor there.

Drico's bravery im slamming his dodgy shoulder off people might be as well.

That Norrie lad has been exposed, he though all his jock friends shouting pwned made him a winner but in the INTERNET sports discussion scene it takes a lot more than that.

I'm going to enjoy exposing this joker over the next month, he's clearly out of his depth

[norrie rugger head]

in the INTERNET sports discussion scene it takes a lot more than that.




Like an actual idea what you are talking about? Does not seem to hamper you

[POL]

he's already trying to claim victory by constantly saying "pwned" a sure sign of rattlement, even proper jocks like Prionsias have admitted defeat

[Lamps]

It was shown that he does not need it to perform his role as OH.
If he goes into a ruck he is acting as cover for a back row and generally causes trouble in the back line in doing so



I hate saying things like this but are you somewhat retarted?

focking hell

[POL]

I hate saying things like this but are you somewhat retarted?

focking hellhe's pulling a liam2me

[Proinsias]

and thats neither here nor there.

Drico's bravery im slamming his dodgy shoulder off people might be as well.

That Norrie lad has been exposed, he though all his jock friends shouting pwned made him a winner but in the INTERNET sports discussion scene it takes a lot more than that.

I'm going to enjoy exposing this joker over the next month, he's clearly out of his depth

No, a modern centre is expected to act as an extra backrower.

You don't want your halfbacks involved in the rucks as then you don't get the ball distributed as well. If your outhalf is involved, your options are to either put a back in his place who won't do the job as effectively or pop it up to a runner.

If you've an outhalf who keeps getting into rucks and don't essentially have a second outhalf in your backline (which isn't that common), you're going to have to keep popping it to runners, which gets very predictable and easy to defend.

[Lamps]

he's already trying to claim victory by constantly saying "pwned" a sure sign of rattlement, even proper jocks like Prionsias have admitted defeat

he's trying to change the terms of the original debate as he knows he got bate out the gate. latching onto Franks irrelevant statement like a lifejacket

who does he think he is dealing with.

FFS

[POL]

judging by this thread, the jocks will really have to up their game if they are going to survive this world cup on the sports forum, they might even be chased into the relationships forums

[Lamps]

No, a modern centre is expected to act as an extra backrower.

You don't want your halfbacks involved in the rucks as then you don't get the ball distributed as well. If your outhalf is involved, your options are to either put a back in his place who won't do the job as effectively or pop it up to a runner.

If you've an outhalf who keeps getting into rucks and don't essentially have a second outhalf in your backline (which isn't that common), you're going to have to keep popping it to runners, which gets very predictable and easy to defend.

yes Frank but the whole debate was could there be circumstances where the OH had to get involved, where a bit of PATB would be needed.

obvioulsy yes. might not be often or advisable but it COULD happen

[POL]

an outhalf without physicality at the breakdown is like an astronaut without a spacesuit

[Proinsias]

yes Frank but the whole debate was could there be circumstances where the OH had to get involved, where a bit of PATB would be needed.

obvioulsy yes. might not be often or advisable but it COULD happen

Meh, in that case, you'd want every player on the pitch to be able to ruck aggressively.

Some teams do that, I don't entirely agree with that tactic. Bit too rugby league. Suppose it worked for Australia in 1999.

POL, would you ever quit with the mindless parroting of catchphrases, it's just spamming by this stage.

[POL]

how dare you

[norrie rugger head]

yes Frank but the whole debate was could there be circumstances where the OH had to get involved, where a bit of PATB would be needed.

obvioulsy yes. might not be often or advisable but it COULD happen



It is not needed to be an out half.

[cantankerous bastard]

So, how bout that new munster backline eh?


Fuckin hell lamps/pol I'm not a fan of excessive adminning on forums but you lads seriously need to keep one conversation to one thread and stop bringing them all back to one topic.

Every rugby thread on the board is now being used for Rugby world cup V soccer/GAA or just general wum bullshit. If there's one thing that bores me about the sports forum its that actual conversation about sports you two gimps arent interested in gets ruined by your fuckwittery.

This thread was about Munster having an impressive backline with 2 new kiwis thrown in the mix, now its the POL and Lamps jerk circle, bravo.

[Lamps]

sorry CB but norrie gym jock to open his eyes

why would the outhalf need physicality at the breakdown?

why wouldn't he?

and what if he had to go in where it hurts

but he might have to do it. the rugger field is not a chess board

so you're saying that an OH could need physicality at the breakdown?

Yes, he might. In those circumstances the best case scenario........

i asked why would he need PATB if he was taking a drop goal.

no you didn't you spoofer. you assumed POL meant that the OH needed PATB, i don't even think he said that, but for the laugh I, the common man, went along with it in order to expose you as a typical jock charlatan who doesn't have a clue about the game he plays.

I proved to you that there are some cases where an OH needs it, not WHEN he is taking a drop goal, thats just a cop out since you got pwned in the argument.

exposed and badly exposed by a GAA man

no dice, I proved an OH could need physicality at the breakdown



pwned to death Norrie, those are the FACTS

[POL]

some jocks have been rattled to their core already and it hasn't even started!

[cantankerous bastard]

some jocks have been rattled to their core already and it hasn't even started!
it hasnt even started? this thread isnt about the rugby world cup, its about munster next season, thats my point, ya little post whore.

[norrie rugger head]

sorry CB but norrie gym jock to open his eyes




the facts according to Lamps on the internet?
not worth the paper they're written on

to be an OH you do not need to be anywhere near a breakdown. insofar as if he gets involved in the breakdown then he is not doing his job as an OH.

give it up kid, there is enough of your arse on a plate to feed Zimbabwe at this stage.







CB, munster will have a great back line but I will reserve judgement untill i see Kidney's game plan.
it will take a bit of thought process change to take full advantage.

[Lamps]

the facts according to Lamps on the internet?
not worth the paper they're written on

to be an OH you do not need to be anywhere near a breakdown. insofar as if he gets involved in the breakdown then he is not doing his job as an OH.

give it up kid, there is enough of your arse on a plate to feed Zimbabwe at this stage.







CB, munster will have a great back line but I will reserve judgement untill i see Kidney's game plan.
it will take a bit of thought process change to take full advantage.

i really can't believe how dense this guy is.

[norrie rugger head]

i really can't believe how dense this guy is.

great come back

Your argument is compelling and not at all rattled

[Lamps]

great come back

Your argument is compelling and not at all rattled

jesus, you must be putting this on

[norrie rugger head]

jesus, you must be putting this on

So you have run out of "argument" and resort to this?

For shame

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/TheFront.jpg/200px-TheFront.jpg

[Lamps]

So you have run out of "argument" and resort to this?

For shame

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/TheFront.jpg/200px-TheFront.jpg



So what was I arguing again?