Liverpool fans the worst in europe

[liam2me]

Liverpool supporters have been labelled as Europe's worst in a damning report by European football's governing body.

Uefa says Reds fans have been involved in more incidents in Europe during the past four years than any other club.

Ticketless fans caused trouble at May's Champions League final, although the club criticised security at the game.

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard said: "That was just the latest example. What other fans steal tickets from fellow fans or from the hands of children?"

Uefa's report will be handed to sports minister Richard Caborn on Tuesday.

In it, Uefa paints a damning picture of the Anfield club's supporters' behaviour at the Champions League final in Athens.

Gaillard added: "We know what happened in Athens, and Liverpool fans were the cause of most of the trouble there.

"There have been 25 incidents involving Liverpool fans away from home since 2003 and these are in the report - most teams' supporters do not cause any trouble at all."

Liverpool have sent their own report to Uefa complaining about lax security measures at the final.

Many supporters with forged tickets or no tickets at all managed to gain access to the stadium.

Gaillard added: "You must ask yourself why at the same match, with the same conditions, there was no trouble with the Milan fans - only the Liverpool fans."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6717793.stm

[Sound]

I'm just back from polling Liverpool fans and they have confirmed that they have voted UEFA as the worst football governing body in the world.

[EL TORO]

It gives me no joy to say this but.....

ahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahah ahahhahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaha hahahhahahahahahahah ahahhahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaha hha and so on:D :D

[xvis]

I'm just back from polling Liverpool fans and they have confirmed that they have voted UEFA as the worst football governing body in the world.

hear hear!

..as a stand for the moral high ground Liverpool fans should petition the club, and refuse to take part in any of Uefa's competitions for a couple of years

..until Uefa can sort things out. they are a disgrace and Platini is a knob and has it in for LFC.


fact.

[EL TORO]

[QUOTE=xvis;1569731]hear hear!

..as a stand for the moral high ground Liverpool fans should petition the club, and refuse to take part in any of Uefa's competitions for a couple of years

..until Uefa can sort things out. they are a disgrace and Platini is a knob and has it in for LFC.


fact.[/QUOTE

In all fairness, Liverpool's fans have a severly deluded view of themselves. It was their fans who robbing tickets from fellow fans and kids . FACT.
Uefa's report included incidents over the last five years, not just Athens.All joking aside, Until the club aknowledge that there is a problem amongst their travelling support, the boycott of European football you think Lliverpool should place, may be forced upon them instead.

[Sound]

"I wondered how long it would take a gloating Man U fan to lap this nonsense up.

UEFA's 'findings' are true in terms of the number arrested. This must surely be tempered with the fact that Liverpool have the largest away following in Europe over the last 4 years by a mile what with getting to two finals and actually travelling unlike the Italians.

UEFA need to wise up. They should turn their attentions to racist abuse that is commonplace in Italy, Spain and Eastern Europe. Liverpool may have alot of scallies following them but at least they dont indulge in these activities that UEFA seem to turn a blind eye to. They should have a go at sorting out some of the behaviour witnessed in Rome every season for a start.

Its convenient for UEFA to put a report out slagging Liverpool off to cover up their own ineptitude in organising the European Cup final. Its timing is particularly suspect. Galliard was the very man praising the Liverpool and Milan fans who mixed peacefully in Istanbul.

4 years in the making so why is it being released now? Its a PR exercise by UEFA to deflect negative attention away from them. 25 complaints in 4 years? Yes some Liverpool fans behaved dreadfully in Athens but given the sheer volume of people who have travelled to support them in Europe over the last 4 years this reflects on a mindless minority of idiots that follow the team.

Any club that claims not to have such 'followers' is lying.

Some Liverpool fans should be ashamed of themselves but anyone with common sense will treat this report and its motivations for what it is.

I'm sure I already know the identity of the posters who wont see common sense with this and will have their own hollow little victory with this reprehensible pile of nonsense.

English football can count itself lucky that it was not an all-English final."

[EL TORO]

I wondered how long it would take a gloating Man U fan to lap this nonsense up.

UEFA's 'findings' are true in terms of the number arrested. This must surely be tempered with the fact that Liverpool have the largest away following in Europe over the last 4 years by a mile what with getting to two finals and actually travelling unlike the Italians.

UEFA need to wise up. They should turn their attentions to racist abuse that is commonplace in Italy, Spain and Eastern Europe. Liverpool may have alot of scallies following them but at least they dont indulge in these activities that UEFA seem to turn a blind eye to. They should have a go at sorting out some of the behaviour witnessed in Rome every season for a start.

Its convenient for UEFA to put a report out slagging Liverpool off to cover up their own ineptitude in organising the European Cup final. Its timing is particularly suspect. Galliard was the very man praising the Liverpool and Milan fans who mixed peacefully in Istanbul.

4 years in the making so why is it being released now? Its a PR exercise by UEFA to deflect negative attention away from them. 25 complaints in 4 years? Yes some Liverpool fans behaved dreadfully in Athens but given the sheer volume of people who have travelled to support them in Europe over the last 4 years this reflects on a mindless minority of idiots that follow the team.

Any club that claims not to have such 'followers' is lying.

Some Liverpool fans should be ashamed of themselves but anyone with common sense will treat this report and its motivations for what it is.

I'm sure I already know the identity of the posters who wont see common sense with this and will have their own hollow little victory with this reprehensible pile of nonsense.

English football can count itself lucky that it was not an all-English final.


Thats not your work is it Sound?

[Sound]

Thats not your work is it Sound?

Nope. Lifted wholesale.

[st finnbar]

Liverpool reacted with anger last night after a senior Uefa official accused the Merseyside club's fans of having stolen from fellow supporters and "out of the hands of children". charming

William Gaillard, Uefa's director of communications, branded Liverpool supporters as the worst behaved in Europe after revealing that a detailed dossier compiled by undercover police officers blamed the English for the chaos at the Champions League final in Athens.

The accusations are likely to dominate tomorrow's meeting in Brussels between Richard Caborn, the sports minister, and Michel Platini, Uefa's new president. Caborn has already expressed sympathy with fans with tickets who were denied entry to the final, and demanded an explanation from Uefa.

Article continues
Gaillard yesterday renewed his verbal onslaught: "The incidents involving Liverpool fans have been well known to us before the trouble at the Champions League final. This was just the latest example. What other set of fans steal tickets from their fellow supporters or out of the hands of children? We know who caused most of the trouble in Athens," he said. "There have been 25 incidents involving Liverpool fans away from home since 2003 and those are in the report - most teams' supporters do not cause any trouble at all."

But Liverpool, who sent Uefa a report criticising the organisation and security arrangements five days before the final, indicated that their warnings had gone unheeded. A club spokesman said: "The shortcomings in the management of the situation in Athens were apparent to anyone who was there and this latest statement from Uefa should not deflect attention from that reality."

Liverpool were allocated 17,000 tickets for the 63,800 capacity Olympic Stadium, which the club regarded as inadequate. Despite warnings not to travel without tickets, it is believed some 40,000 of their fans were in the Greek capital.

Politicians in the UK have backed the English club, criticising the organisation of the event. Michael Howard, the former Conservative leader, said the Olympic Stadium was unsuited to staging such an important match and Simon Gass, the British ambassador to Greece, called for an investigation into the behaviour of the police.

Trouble erupted after fans with forged tickets - or no tickets at all - were allowed into the stadium after passing four security cordons. There were reports that tickets were snatched out of the hands of supporters and that some had gained entry by flourishing cigarette packets and photocopied press passes.

Less than an hour before kick-off, police stopped supporters, many of whom did have genuine tickets, for safety reasons because the ground was full. When some fans protested or tried to evade cordons, police responded with a baton charge and fired tear gas. Caborn's talks with Platini are also likely to cover a series of incidents at games involving English clubs in Europe over the past year, including claims by Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur that their supporters were indiscriminately attacked by police in Rome and Seville, respectively.

[MonTheHoops]

Liverpool have the largest away following? I find that a bit tough to swallow.

[Sound]

Liverpool have the largest away following? I find that a bit tough to swallow.

To clarify.

Over the past few years they've been to two finals and they travel. I'm sure if Celtic had been to two then they would probably have even more. But when compared to anyone else, there's no contest whatsoever.

[comred]

3 euro finals if you go back to 2001, 2001 and 3 awarded bestest fans by uefa - hence the reason for collecting data from that date onwards.

all of its spin to deflect from a liverpool supporter attempting to sue and uefa having recieved criticism in the press regarding the fiasco and questions about ticket allocation and the uefa family.

getting the retaliation in first you might call it.

as much as mancs and blues might lap this up - it's ridiculous to accuse fans of british/english teams as the worst in europe.

as pointed out there are far more 'incidents' occuring in italy, spain, turkey, greece, holland etc than in the uk.

on another point the dossier doesnt seem to include the data regarding lfc supporters at home cl matches - where the gov stats proves lfc fans are not even the worst in england.

utd still hold that trophy.

[comred]

By the way, we're not the worst again now:

The Guardian

Liverpool supporters criticised in UEFA study
By Mark Ledsom
BERNE, Switzerland, June 4 (Reuters) - English Premier League side Liverpool's supporters have been branded the most troublesome in Europe, according to a report compiled from international police statistics.
European soccer's governing body UEFA said on Monday it would be handing the study to UK sports minister Richard Caborn during a meeting in Brussels on Tuesday.
"There have been over 25 incidents involving Liverpool supporters since 2003, some of them small, some more worrisome," UEFA spokesman William Gaillard told Reuters.
Gaillard insisted though that UEFA were not labelling Liverpool as Europe's worst club, since the statistic did not take into account the severity of the incidents.
While European soccer has been rocked by fatal cases of hooliganism this season involving French and Italian fans, Gaillard said the problems with Liverpool often involved supporters trying to enter stadiums without tickets.
"We cannot compare apples and oranges," Gaillard said.
"The problems with Liverpool have not been big enough to earn the club any sanctions from UEFA which means we are probably talking about a few small groups causing trouble outside of the stadiums.
"This is not about saying that Liverpool are the worst club. But we received this police report and thought it was a relevant time to pass on our concerns to the sports minister."

desperatley backtracking on original statement issued to lfc supporters favourite sunday paper as its utter tripe as you full well know.

[EL TORO]

3 euro finals if you go back to 2001, 2001 and 3 awarded bestest fans by uefa - hence the reason for collecting data from that date onwards.

all of its spin to deflect from a liverpool supporter attempting to sue and uefa having recieved criticism in the press regarding the fiasco and questions about ticket allocation and the uefa family.

getting the retaliation in first you might call it.

as much as mancs and blues might lap this up - it's ridiculous to accuse fans of british/english teams as the worst in europe.

as pointed out there are far more 'incidents' occuring in italy, spain, turkey, greece, holland etc than in the uk.

on another point the dossier doesnt seem to include the data regarding lfc supporters at home cl matches - where the gov stats proves lfc fans are not even the worst in england.

utd still hold that trophy.

What you are sayng is correct, Greece has terrible hooligan problems as does Italy and Holland, but Liverpool fans have done their dirty washing in Public and have tarnished the spotless vision of the CL that Uefa like to promote, hence the harsh reaction.

[Sound]

What you are sayng is correct, Greece has terrible hooligan problems as does Italy and Holland, but Liverpool fans have done their dirty washing in Public and have tarnished the spotless vision of the CL that Uefa like to promote, hence the harsh reaction.

So it's hardly demonstrative of Liverpool's self-pity complex if they get a tad miffed about being called the 'worst fans in Europe' based on the last 4 years when there have been fatalities in Italy and France then?

[EL TORO]

So it's hardly demonstrative of Liverpool's self-pity complex if they get a tad miffed about being called the 'worst fans in Europe' based on the last 4 years when there have been fatalities in Italy and France then?

Agreed, but as a guy at work has just said, if there was an unbrella left on a bus in Liverpool, there'd be a bunch of flowers there the next day.

[Sound]

Agreed, but as a guy at work has just said, if there was an unbrella left on a bus in Liverpool, there'd be a bunch of flowers there the next day.

So we are agreed then.

If that is the case, what of Uefa here? They're throwing ill-founded shapes and accusations while blatantly ignoring greater problems.

[EL TORO]

So we are agreed then.

If that is the case, what of Uefa here? They're throwing ill-founded shapes and accusations while blatantly ignoring greater problems.

Uefa are sticking it into Liverpool purely because they have tarnished the Centre piece of European football (on 2 occasions no less).It is blatantly obvious that Liverpool's fans arent the worst in Europe ( Alan Smith's amulance attack aside). The Greeks have major problems as do the Dutch etc, hence Feyenoord's exclusion from the Uefa cup. Liverpool have basically fucked up out in the open and have had the gall (in Uefa's eyes) to try and lay the blame on the organisers. Both sides have a valid point, but the robbing of kids and old blokes is not helping the Kopite case.

[Sound]

Uefa are sticking it into Liverpool purely because they have tarnished the Centre piece of European football (on 2 occasions no less).It is blatantly obvious that Liverpool's fans arent the worst in Europe ( Alan Smith's amulance attack aside). The Greeks have major problems as do the Dutch etc, hence Feyenoord's exclusion from the Uefa cup. Liverpool have basically fucked up out in the open and have had the gall (in Uefa's eyes) to try and lay the blame on the organisers. Both sides have a valid point, but the robbing of kids and old blokes is not helping the Kopite case.

I find it informative that anecdotal stories are being used by Gaillard to cling Liverpool fans but the very same type anecdotal evidence from Liverpool fans about the organisation etc is being dismissed out of hand by Uefa.

[comred]

well said sound - keep pointing out the discrepancies.

[wat_boy]

Uefa are sticking it into Liverpool purely because they have tarnished the Centre piece of European football (on 2 occasions no less).

We have clearly not been forgiven for Heysel. I surprised it wasn't mentioned by Gaillard. I bet he was itching like a blueshite to get it in somewhere

[EL TORO]

I find it informative that anecdotal stories are being used by Gaillard to cling Liverpool fans but the very same type anecdotal evidence from Liverpool fans about the organisation etc is being dismissed out of hand by Uefa.

They are not anecdotal fella. I'm in Liverpool most of the week with work, and deal with a lost of red lads, some of whom were at the game, and verify pretty much most of what went on. One of these lads actually pulled some young scally off an older bloke as he was trying to pull a backpack off him. I have no doubt in my mind that there were a hell of a lot of scumbags amongst the thousands of reds in Athens. Unfair on the overall number you say? I havent seen any other team in a CL final have their own fans causing so much mayhem. When Juve played Milan in Manchester it all passed off problem free, as have most of the other European cup finals.. barr that one back in the 80's but we wont talk about that one.

[Sound]

They are not anecdotal fella. I'm in Liverpool most of the week with work, and deal with a lost of red lads, some of whom were at the game, and verify pretty much most of what went on. One of these lads actually pulled some young scally off an older bloke as he was trying to pull a backpack off him. I have no doubt in my mind that there were a hell of a lot of scumbags amongst the thousands of reds in Athens. Unfair on the overall number you say? I havent seen any other team in a CL final have their own fans causing so much mayhem. When Juve played Milan in Manchester it all passed off problem free, as have most of the other European cup finals.. barr that one back in the 80's but we wont talk about that one.

You're missing my point. All stories about what went on are anecdotal- and that's fine in the context as you can only deduce what happened through witnesses on the ground. My point is that what's good for the goose should be good for the gander. If anecdotal stories can be used against Pool fans then it should be the same for stories about the organisation. But these seem to be off message for what Uefa want everyone to believe.

I absolutely thing there were a load of scobes in Athens. I've never said anything different. As for the problem free Italians- what about the chaos during the Milan/Inter CL game a while back?

[Langer Dan]

HSE report tells us the a&e is a disaster, Uefa report tells us Liverpool fans are worst in europe.

what next? the Met service in 'sky is blue' shocker.

yes liverpool are supported by thieving scum. no surprise there, just ask dudek or reina about the legendary scouse wit..

[Sound]

HSE report tells us the a&e is a disaster, Uefa report tells us Liverpool fans are worst in europe.

what next? the Met service in 'sky is blue' shocker.

yes liverpool are supported by thieving scum. no surprise there, just ask dudek or reina about the legendary scouse wit..

Thanks for the contribution LD.

[Langer Dan]

Thanks for the contribution LD.

Earra take it on the chin fella.

its official, yere supported by scum. Enough of the 'theyve all got it infamy' school of thought, thank you very much.

ye Liverpool types are as bad as dragnet with yer Uefa conspiracy garbage.

The sports governing body has rightly branded ye the worst behaved supporters in europe. Thus one can conclude that liverpool supporters are indeed scum.

[Sound]

Earra take it on the chin fella.

its official, yere supported by scum. Enough of the 'theyve all got it infamy' school of thought, thank you very much.

ye Liverpool types are as bad as dragnet with yer Uefa conspiracy garbage.

The sports governing body has rightly branded ye the worst behaved supporters in europe. Thus one can conclude that liverpool supporters are indeed scum.

They've poxed their way to it again! A four year comp where no policemen were killed like in Italy or France. No players hit with flares like the Milan/ Inter CL game.

Liverpool have devalued the 'Worst fans in Europe' competition.

[EL TORO]

We have clearly not been forgiven for Heysel. I surprised it wasn't mentioned by Gaillard. I bet he was itching like a blueshite to get it in somewhere


Why should they be? Speak to a Juve fan. As much as Blues despise that event, Supporters of the bianconeri have their own feelings towards the Kopites.

[EL TORO]

They've poxed their way to it again! A four year comp where no policemen were killed like in Italy or France. No players hit with flares like the Milan/ Inter CL game.

Liverpool have devalued the 'Worst fans in Europe' competition.

In fairness these are more social unrest issues than directly related to a specific team. Sicily has long had a problem with Violence as ahd France with its immigrant population. The same cannot be said of English football lately. Liverpool have left the side down again, and thats the most important issue here.

[wayne gayle]

I'm a Liverpool fan myself (well I used to go to games but don't anymore, I only take a passing interest in them now).
A mate of mine is a total one-eyed Liverpool fan, scousers can never do anything wrong in his eyes, he won't hear a word against them.
He went to one of their away games in Europe this season and he said the behaviour of Liverpool fans was a disgrace, bunking into the ground without tickets by running through the turnstiles (it was obviously made easier for them in Athens 'cause there weren't any turnstiles at all;great thinking UEFA).
His seat and the seat of the guy he was with were taken when they got in so the ended up watching the match standing in a walkway.
Like I say, this guy is the most unobjective person imaginable when it comes to "his" club but he said he would never go to an away match in Europe involving Liverpool again.

[Sound]

In fairness these are more social unrest issues than directly related to a specific team. Sicily has long had a problem with Violence as ahd France with its immigrant population. The same cannot be said of English football lately. Liverpool have left the side down again, and thats the most important issue here.

So because there are social problems in certain countries they're excused? Snap out of it.

I dont buy into conspiracy theories but guff like that would have me changing my mind. Gaillard called Liverpool fans the 'worst in Europe' based on a 4 year report. In the same time other sets of fans have killed police and caused CL games to be abandoned. He's using anecdotal stories to back his own case and dismissing any that criticise the organisation. FFS.

[Sound]

I'm a Liverpool fan myself (well I used to go to games but don't anymore, I only take a passing interest in them now).
A mate of mine is a total one-eyed Liverpool fan, scousers can never do anything wrong in his eyes, he won't hear a word against them.
He went to one of their away games in Europe this season and he said the behaviour of Liverpool fans was a disgrace, bunking into the ground without tickets by running through the turnstiles (it was obviously made easier for them in Athens 'cause there weren't any turnstiles at all;great thinking UEFA).
His seat and the seat of the guy he was with were taken when they got in so the ended up watching the match standing in a walkway.
Like I say, this guy is the most unobjective person imaginable when it comes to "his" club but he said he would never go to an away match in Europe involving Liverpool again.

Now that's a sensible post.

There were doubtlessly a load of scobes in Athens and they should be held accountable and have some personal responsibility.

But it's also down to the organisers to put some decent security in place for the showpiece.

[Langer Dan]

So because there are social problems in certain countries they're excused? Snap out of it.

I dont buy into conspiracy theories but guff like that would have me changing my mind. Gaillard called Liverpool fans the 'worst in Europe' based on a 4 year report. In the same time other sets of fans have killed police and caused CL games to be abandoned. He's using anecdotal stories to back his own case and dismissing any that criticise the organisation. FFS.

Carlsberg must be delighted.


Liverpool fans......

[EL TORO]

So because there are social problems in certain countries they're excused? Snap out of it.

I dont buy into conspiracy theories but guff like that would have me changing my mind. Gaillard called Liverpool fans the 'worst in Europe' based on a 4 year report. In the same time other sets of fans have killed police and caused CL games to be abandoned. He's using anecdotal stories to back his own case and dismissing any that criticise the organisation. FFS.

Thats just my opinion Sound, Uefa obviously have it in for Liverpool and in fairness theres no smoke without fire. Liverpool were given special dispensation to play in the CL by Uefa when they had'nt actually qualified for it, and now they're being scolded they dont like it. Smacks of childish behaviour to me.

[EL TORO]

Now that's a sensible post.

There were doubtlessly a load of scobes in Athens and they should be held accountable and have some personal responsibility.

But it's also down to the organisers to put some decent security in place for the showpiece.


For the worst fans in Europe?;)

[Sound]

Thats just my opinion Sound, Uefa obviously have it in for Liverpool and in fairness theres no smoke without fire. Liverpool were given special dispensation to play in the CL by Uefa when they had'nt actually qualified for it, and now they're being scolded they dont like it. Smacks of childish behaviour to me.

That doesn't address anything I actually said.

[EL TORO]

Look Sound, Uefa being the organising body and the governing body can do and say pretty much what they want for now. I agree they were niave with ther expectations in Athens. Simply asking fans without tickets not to travel was not enough. The lack of turnstiles at the Stadium added fuel to the fire and these incidents should be teken into account and rectified. That said none of the above excuses the actions of the rogue element within the Liverpool masses. In my humble opinion, fans without tickets should have been stopped from travelling at Airports and Ports. Some may have slipped the net, but it would have alleviated a lot of these issues. At the end of the day fella, scum will always fuck things up for everyone else, until they are cut off at source.

[Sound]

Look Sound, Uefa being the organising body and the governing body can do and say pretty much what they want for now. I agree they were niave with ther expectations in Athens. Simply asking fans without tickets not to travel was not enough. The lack of turnstiles at the Stadium added fuel to the fire and these incidents should be teken into account and rectified. That said none of the above excuses the actions of the rogue element within the Liverpool masses. In my humble opinion, fans without tickets should have been stopped from travelling at Airports and Ports. Some may have slipped the net, but it would have alleviated a lot of these issues. At the end of the day fella, scum will always fuck things up for everyone else, until they are cut off at source.

100% agreement.

I'm just seeking to highlight Gaillard's aganda.

[comred]

Liverpool have left the side down again, and thats the most important issue here.

no its not.

the first issue you want to get your head around is uefa have a duty of care -to protect the decent match going supporters gaining entry into the stadium and being safe within the stadiums.

on this first issue uefa have failed time and again to do this - utd in lens, utd in rome, liverpool in rome, middlesborough etc etc - i could go on and not just with clubs from the uk.

the 2nd issue is uefa trying deflect blame away from their own shortcomings and without proven evidence - onto one set of supporters.

again if your happy with this - or any supporter for that matter - then i suggest you have a few shortcomings of your own that you need to address.

btw i was in athens and my ticket is fully in tact. i went through six police checks.

[Sound]

Rafa now has a position of strength and needs to use it. Expect transfers for some Sicily youngsters for their cop-killing abilities. He could also look towards Ligue 1 for some of their Gendarme killers to beef up the squad.

But whether he can instill the 'us versus them' racism of Roma/Nazio or La Liga remains to be seen. Even with these additions, you'd still feel that they will need that little bit of magic like, say throwing the odd scooter or hitting keepers with flares, to break down tougher defences.

Interesting times.

[EL TORO]

no its not.

the first issue you want to get your head around is uefa have a duty of care -to protect the decent match going supporters gaining entry into the stadium and being safe within the stadiums.

on this first issue uefa have failed time and again to do this - utd in lens, utd in rome, liverpool in rome, middlesborough etc etc - i could go on and not just with clubs from the uk.

the 2nd issue is uefa trying deflect blame away from their own shortcomings and without proven evidence - onto one set of supporters.

again if your happy with this - or any supporter for that matter - then i suggest you have a few shortcomings of your own that you need to address.

btw i was in athens and my ticket is fully in tact. i went through six police checks.


So you're telling me Liverpool are completely blameless and its the nasty men at Uefa who were taking the places of the genuine fans by robbing them of tickets or using fake tickets. I understand your loyalty to your club fella, but your views are slightly myopic. My previous post to Sound sums up what I think of the issues involved.

[comred]

lol yes id say the nasty men at uefa are quite guilty of taking tickets from the hands of genuine supporters hence us having less than 17000 official fans - and 17000 ac milan fans in a 70000 seater stadium. Something you would have discovered if your team had got there.

i'll simplfy it for you - as you seem a simple person in need of simple explanation - it doesnt matter if gengis khan and his band of followers decended on athens for the champions league final. Or a couple of nuns who got lost in the crowd with tickets.

uefa have a duty of care to protect the decent match going supporter both in and outside the stadium.

uefa failed in this very simple duty to segregate those with tickets from those without.

how those without tickets behaved is a seperate issue.

[Sound]

lol yes id say the nasty men at uefa are quite guilty of taking tickets from the hands of genuine supporters hence us having less than 17000 official fans - and 17000 ac milan fans in a 70000 seater stadium. Something you would have discovered if your team had got there.

i'll simplfy it for you - as you seem a simple person in need of simple explanation - it doesnt matter if gengis khan and his band of followers decended on athens for the champions league final. Or a couple of nuns who got lost in the crowd with tickets.

uefa have a duty of care to protect the decent match going supporter both in and outside the stadium.

uefa failed in this very simple duty to segregate those with tickets from those without.

how those without tickets behaved is a seperate issue.

It's hardly separate though, now is it?

[comred]

not entirely sure what you mean by that sound.

some of our fans behaved appallingly its true. But having a fanzone area adjacent to the ground encouraged those without tickets to be in the vacinity of the ground. And it was obvious to anyone there how easy it was to get in the ground without being checked.

that doesnt excuse the jibbers behaviour - nor does it negate uefa's role.

[Sound]

'Rick Parry-
These latest comments from UEFA should not deflect attention from that reality. What is most surprising about the latest comments from Mr Gaillard is that on the eve of the final, he quite rightly commented that Liverpool supporters 'have a tradition of good behaviour'.

"Let's not forget that these same supporters who Mr Gaillard is claiming are now the worst in Europe were praised by UEFA president Michel Platini after our semi-final victory against Chelsea only last month, commended for their behaviour in Istanbul in 2005 and actually honoured by UEFA at a gala dinner in Monte Carlo in 2001 as joint Supporters of the Years with Alaves after the UEFA Cup final."

Richard Caborn, the British Sports Minister, who is meeting Platini on Tuesday, added: "I have a lot of sympathy with the Liverpool fans who paid their hard-earned money for genuine tickets but couldn't get into the ground.

"The reasons for this need an urgent explanation. We have already raised the matter with the Greek authorities through our embassy in Athens and Government officials are also talking with UEFA. I will be putting this issue high on the agenda at a meeting I am to have with Michel Platini."

Parry added: "To have a stadium with no counting system and no turnstiles is unforgivable for any standard of game, let alone a major final.

"We produced a report for UEFA a week beforehand predicting, sadly, all of the things that did go wrong. We told UEFA our intelligence suggested there were 5,000 forged tickets in existence.

"They knew and we knew that thousands of fans would travel without tickets and we stressed the need for a proper check at the outer cordon

[EL TORO]

lol yes id say the nasty men at uefa are quite guilty of taking tickets from the hands of genuine supporters hence us having less than 17000 official fans - and 17000 ac milan fans in a 70000 seater stadium. Something you would have discovered if your team had got there.i'll simplfy it for you - as you seem a simple person in need of simple explanation - it doesnt matter if gengis khan and his band of followers decended on athens for the champions league final. Or a couple of nuns who got lost in the crowd with tickets.

uefa have a duty of care to protect the decent match going supporter both in and outside the stadium.

uefa failed in this very simple duty to segregate those with tickets from those without.

how those without tickets behaved is a seperate issue.

Typical kopite, can't form a clear arguement without the insults. Btw my team would have got 'there' a lot more during the late 80's if it wasnt for the friendly reds being involved in yet another incident which involved loss of life.

[comred]

as for coherent arguements what has heysel got to do with athens? And you were doing so well not letting your bitterness show through for at least four or five posts.

well done.

[EL TORO]

as for coherent arguements what has heysel got to do with athens? And you were doing so well not letting your bitterness show through for at least four or five posts.

well done.

Ahaha you make me laugh. Look lad, I live and work with Reds, I spend a lot of time in and around Anfield and various other stadia in the north with work, so my agenda is definitely not a bitter one. The facts speak for themselves. Yes Uefa were niave in their planning and execution of event, but this does not excuse the fact that fans of one team caused mayhem whilst there, the fans in question were not Italian. End of.

[Loftydog]

Im sorry lads but i dont buy this at all. This whole arguement that liverpool fans do not have a big scumbag following because at least they didnt kill anyone recently. Ye are setting yerselves against a very low bench mark. Cop on for fucks sake and quit with the whining and admit yeah we do have problems.

[comred]

right - you dont have an agenda but feel the need to express your expert opinion in the matter even though your team wasnt there - you weren't there and uefa dossier points to 25 'occurances' over a four year period that even they themselves have backtracked from.

no no carry peddling the myth that we are the scum of the earth and find english clubs - including your own banned from europe again.

like i said your a simple person and that's called cutting your nose off to spite your face.

i do retract one statement - 17000 would be more than enough tickets for your support.

[Sound]

Im sorry lads but i dont buy this at all. This whole arguement that liverpool fans do not have a big scumbag following because at least they didnt kill anyone recently. Ye are setting yerselves against a very low bench mark. Cop on for fucks sake and quit with the whining and admit yeah we do have problems.

There's only one poster here of a Pool persuasion who seems to be denying that there was a bad element in the crowd.

I and others are trying to highlight that UEFA has a serious agenda in all of this.

I'm sorry if you think it's stereotypical self-pitying Pool fans.

[comred]

Im sorry lads but i dont buy this at all. This whole arguement that liverpool fans do not have a big scumbag following because at least they didnt kill anyone recently. Ye are setting yerselves against a very low bench mark. Cop on for fucks sake and quit with the whining and admit yeah we do have problems.

Lofty – have you read the thread – nobodies excusing the minority that behaved appallingly.

Please point me towards a club that doesn’t have a minority of idiots following them.

As I said its up to the authorities to deal with this element for any team by it the uk or Europe.

[Forsberg]

Lads ffs.

Everybody knows that there is an element of english soccer fans that are pure scum. Liverpools are no better or worse than any other premiership team.

I can't understand why people would choose to defend them to be honest and
on the otherhand I cant't understand why fans of other clubs are using this as ammunition to condemn them as some sort of disease on the game .

It wasn't long ago that United fans and Spurs fans were also involved in nasty incidents in Uefas competitions.

This is a problem for all of English football , not just Liverpool.

I certainly won't be on here defending Everton "fans" next season if they are involved because , while I support Everton , I don't feel that I need to associate myself with the nastier element of football fans.

[EL TORO]

[QUOTE=comred;1570089]right - you dont have an agenda but feel the need to express your expert opinion in the matter even though your team wasnt there - you weren't there and uefa dossier points to 25 'occurances' over a four year period that even they themselves have backtracked from.

no no carry peddling the myth that we are the scum of the earth and find english clubs - including your own banned from europe again.

like i said your a simple person and that's called cutting your nose off to spite your face. :confused: erm

i do retract one statement - 17000 would be more than enough tickets for your support.[/QUOT :confused:

Look fella, (assuming you're a fella) I'm not going to begin trading insults with you, I work in the football industry, I see and hear a hell of a lot more than you read on aertel or on your LFC website hence my views may differ slightly with yours. Had this issue involved Utd rather than Liverpool, I'm sure you wouldnt be on here extolling the virtues of the Mancs. Now let this be the end of this bottomless pit.

[EL TORO]

Lads ffs.

Everybody knows that there is an element of english soccer fans that are pure scum. Liverpools are no better or worse than any other premiership team.

I can't understand why people would choose to defend them to be honest and
on the otherhand I cant't understand why fans of other clubs are using this as ammunition to condemn them as some sort of disease on the game .

It wasn't long ago that United fans and Spurs fans were also involved in nasty incidents in Uefas competitions.

This is a problem for all of English football , not just Liverpool.

I certainly won't be on here defending Everton "fans" next season if they are involved because , while I support Everton , I don't feel that I need to associate myself with the nastier element of football fans.

Fair play Forsberg, My point has nothing to do with vilifying any particular club, its more aimed at the myopic view of certain individuals. As you say every club has its scum, and believe me Everton have a right bunch of nasty bastards in the stands, but its the arrogance and self pity nature of Kopites that gets up peoples noses. Thats all.

[comred]

this thread isnt about defending those who misbahed in athens ffs.

its about defending those who were their from being tarred with the same brush - being tarred as the worst supporters is that simple enough for you all?

el tordo - i'm a st holder - i live in the uk, work in the uk. my knowledge is based on being at the game.

[EL TORO]

this thread isnt about defending those who misbahed in athens ffs.

its about defending those who were their from being tarred with the same brush - being tarred as the worst supporters is that simple enough for you all?

el tordo - i'm a st holder - i live in the uk, work in the uk. my knowledge is based on being at the game.

ok,ok I cannot take any more, You're right.... Great play on the name there aswell fella, cant stop with the insults can you. Shows great immaturity my friend. Anyway back to work.:rolleyes:

[Sound]

Gotta love the whole self-pitying thing being bandied about again. Is critiquing Gaillard with facts classed as self-pity now?

:silly:

[comred]

it was a typo el toro- dont be so vain.

sound if your refering to me defending the scum in athens please quote it those references thanks. Dont imply things i havent said.

[Sound]

Great letter on F365-

I don't know what made me angrier more today; UEFA's mudflinging or the predictable yet infuriating comments about 'scum', 'bindippers' and, most of all, Heysel.

A small number of 'fans' shamed Liverpool FC in the eyes of the world twenty two years ago, and what happened should never, ever be forgotten. However to use it as a reason to condone the crap hurled at the club by UEFA is immoral.

Every support has its dickheads, and only a fool would suggest Liverpool FC are an exception; but how can UEFA be allowed to make such statements about the club without actually substantiating them?

UEFA know they screwed up with the choice of stadia in Athens which was simply not fit for purpose - the ground didn't even have turnstiles for Christ's sake! This, along with gross mismanagement of ticket allocation, handed the opportunity for some scally bastards to blag their way into the game on a golden plate...in fact, it's almost as if UEFA knew it would happen...

The police can't really be blamed for teargassing fans outside the ground, if a few thousand blaggers had slipped past inadequate security without tickets, then the peelers had a duty to stop more getting in to prevent serious problems; but then, if you're one of the fans with a valid ticket being denied admission before getting a baton over the head for protesting, you might not be too happy either.

One of the tiresome urban taglines that goes with being a Liverpudlian (NOT a scouser) is that I'm supposed to have a great sense of humour, or, as is more often the case, the ability to laugh at myself and not take things, such as anti-Liverpool abuse, too seriously.

I'm not laughing anymore.
Alex Ballard, Liverpool

[wat_boy]

good read

[Langer Dan]

Im sorry lads but i dont buy this at all. This whole arguement that liverpool fans do not have a big scumbag following because at least they didnt kill anyone recently. Ye are setting yerselves against a very low bench mark. Cop on for fucks sake and quit with the whining and admit yeah we do have problems.

Spot on.

lETS just ALL JUST BE AGREED. Liverpool fc attracts scum, the two go hand in hand. Only difference now its official.

UEFA- LIVERPOOL SUPPORTERS WORST IN EUROPE: well at least ye won something this season.

[wat_boy]

Spot on.

lETS just ALL JUST BE AGREED. Liverpool fc attracts scum, the two go hand in hand. Only difference now its official.

UEFA- LIVERPOOL SUPPORTERS WORST IN EUROPE: well at least ye won something this season.

whilst we all agree that Liverpool like every other club has scum supporters in its ranks this comment from uefa is starting to look really foolish now, look at the behavior of feeynord fans, a fan was shot at a psg game last november, roma/lazio where a scooter was fucked onto the pitch, inter a few years back in the cl, the 11 boro fans who were stabbed and not to forget the behavior of some of the utd fans outside old trafford before the milan game. lets look a bit closer to home now shall we, in 04/05 and 05/06 man utd fans had more football related arrests and banning orders than Liverpool, more than double in fact, this seasons figures have yet to be released, i posted the links in one of the threads if you want to look them up.

[Langer Dan]

its all about bringing it back to united with sad bitter little men like yerself.

have an oul gander at the thread title there.

Had UEFA branded United supporters the worst in euope, then maybe you'd have some sort of point.

[Sound]

Uefa were in grave danger of provoking a sensible debate about recent problems involving travelling English support. Thanks heavens they avoided that.

Phew!

[wat_boy]

its all about bringing it back to united with sad bitter little men like yerself.

thats cheap coming from someone like you who has a go at liverpool every chance he gets, run along now ya muppet

[KolaKubes]

its all about bringing it back to united with sad bitter little men like yerself.

have an oul gander at the thread title there.

Had UEFA branded United supporters the worst in euope, then maybe you'd have some sort of point.

I was one of the first to chastise the fuckwit Utd fans who caused the trouble in Lille. Interesting that the lads still choose to defend the indefensible time after time. I don't claim any association with the "hard core" Utd fans. The self-same boyos who had OT as a no go area for visiting supporters during the height of the hooligan years.

For me, the move to middle class football is a good thing.

The famous "minority of fans" ruining it for everyone else. What do you imagine, it's the same few dozen dickheads throwing piss and shit, attacking ambulances, fighting with police, nicking stuff, vandalising stadium facilities.

Give over.

You get fuckwits in Semple every June as well but not in anything like the number attending the average Premiership game and certainly the average Liverpool game.

[J.R.R. hartley]

I was one of the first to chastise the fuckwit Utd fans who caused the trouble in Lille. Interesting that the lads still choose to defend the indefensible time after time. I don't claim any association with the "hard core" Utd fans. The self-same boyos who had OT as a no go area for visiting supporters during the height of the hooligan years.

For me, the move to middle class football is a good thing.

The famous "minority of fans" ruining it for everyone else. What do you imagine, it's the same few dozen dickheads throwing piss and shit, attacking ambulances, fighting with police, nicking stuff, vandalising stadium facilities.

Give over.

You get fuckwits in Semple every June as well but not in anything like the number attending the average Premiership game and certainly the average Liverpool game.
Liverpool fans might be scumbags, but to their credit, they aren't stupid enough to charge riot police.

[Sound]

I was one of the first to chastise the fuckwit Utd fans who caused the trouble in Lille. Interesting that the lads still choose to defend the indefensible time after time. I don't claim any association with the "hard core" Utd fans. The self-same boyos who had OT as a no go area for visiting supporters during the height of the hooligan years.

For me, the move to middle class football is a good thing.

The famous "minority of fans" ruining it for everyone else. What do you imagine, it's the same few dozen dickheads throwing piss and shit, attacking ambulances, fighting with police, nicking stuff, vandalising stadium facilities.

Give over.

You get fuckwits in Semple every June as well but not in anything like the number attending the average Premiership game and certainly the average Liverpool game.


I'm about one more idiotic post away from being done with you.

Pretty much every single Pool poster here has begun by saying 'you cant excuse the idiots who misbehaved'. How the fuck does that constitute 'defending the indefensible'.

[KolaKubes]

I'm about one more idiotic post away from being done with you.

Pretty much every single Pool poster here has begun by saying 'you cant excuse the idiots who misbehaved'. How the fuck does that constitute 'defending the indefensible'.

There's page after page here of discussions about UEFA citing the Pool fans as being "the worst in Europe".

Amongst Cork people who happen to follow Utd or Liverpool.

You get up on your high horse about me criticising Pool fans who I feel were partially to blame for Hillsborough? A controversial point and, fair enough, bound to illicit a response from those who'd disagree with me on that. I also criticised (as you noted at the time) Utd fans who almost caused a similar problem in Lille.

I didn't notice you getting in quite such a knot over that and yet the general principle is identical.

I have also been critical of those Utd fans who have stepped right out of line during the Glazer takeover and (although a separate issue) the odd notion that Utd were "taken away from the fans" (something which happened decades ago) and the nauseating sentimentality that went along with it.

Similarly, I've been critical of the similar sentimentality that seems to typify a considerable proportion of Liverpool fans.

You attack me for trying to "score points" off of this. To be honest, I'm very glad that whatever the ills of some amongst the utd faithful, they don't include auite such mawkish sentimentalists amongst their ranks. If that falls under "scoring points" fair enough, I don't think it does though. I think I'm fairly consistent in my views and I'd be the first to criticise Utd fans if any were guilty of the same shite.

[Sound]

There's page after page here of discussions about UEFA citing the Pool fans as being "the worst in Europe".

Amongst Cork people who happen to follow Utd or Liverpool.

You get up on your high horse about me criticising Pool fans who I feel were partially to blame for Hillsborough? A controversial point and, fair enough, bound to illicit a response from those who'd disagree with me on that. I also criticised (as you noted at the time) Utd fans who almost caused a similar problem in Lille.

I didn't notice you getting in quite such a knot over that and yet the general principle is identical.

I have also been critical of those Utd fans who have stepped right out of line during the Glazer takeover and (although a separate issue) the odd notion that Utd were "taken away from the fans" (something which happened decades ago) and the nauseating sentimentality that went along with it.

Similarly, I've been critical of the similar sentimentality that seems to typify a considerable proportion of Liverpool fans.

You attack me for trying to "score points" off of this. To be honest, I'm very glad that whatever the ills of some amongst the utd faithful, they don't include auite such mawkish sentimentalists amongst their ranks. If that falls under "scoring points" fair enough, I don't think it does though. I think I'm fairly consistent in my views and I'd be the first to criticise Utd fans if any were guilty of the same shite.

That's all very nice but none of it addresses the point made. You said people here were defending the indefensible. I pointed out that that is simply untrue. Nobody excused scumbag actions. Nobody is defending that.

[KolaKubes]

That's all very nice but none of it addresses the point made. You said people here were defending the indefensible. I pointed out that that is simply untrue. Nobody excused scumbag actions. Nobody is defending that.

Well, fine so. Point retracted.

[D number 10]

one of the big differences at european matches is that he games are on in the evening. i suppose most travelling supporters would be enjoying some drink during the build up to the game.. hence when game time comes a lot of them are drunk. most english supporters treat the european games as mini breaks going to places like barcelona athens etc.
In fairness, a lot of problems are with UEFA. only 17000 tickets for liverpool fans is not enough.
At the camp nou lots of liverpool fans were sat with the Barcelona season ticket holders and i saw little trouble. i saw the same fans get turned away at the ground because they held british passports. in fairness you can understand the frustration of the supporters in this situation.
however i cannot condone what they did in athens.. it was wrong. ok the ground in athens doesnt have terraces but u could see another hillsborugh happening from this sort of carry on(im sure this thought crossed some peoples mind)
.
maybe Uefa should look into staging the champions league final on a sunday afternoon??

[jimmy magee]

I hate liverpool fans. They're pathetic.
Why do they always flaunt the fuckin merchandise.
Why do they always dress their innocent children with the fuckin merchandise?
Why do they name their houses 'Anfield'?
Why is Fowler always idolised?
Why do they always say we won it 5 times?

Shower of wankers, the world over...

[KolaKubes]

I hate fans. They're pathetic.
Why do they always flaunt the fuckin merchandise.
Why do they always dress their innocent children with the fuckin merchandise?
Why do they name their houses after the stadium?
Why is some mediocre past "legend" still idolised?
Why do they harp on about trophies won decades ago?

Shower of wankers, the world over...

.

[homer jay]

heh heh rattled etc.

[Sound]

Cracking piece-
Uefa solely to blame? Let those without tickets cast the first stone

Martin Samuel

A Royal Opera House production of IntoThe Woods opens next week. Short run, small theatre, the Nessun Dorma set were straight in. You can’t get tickets for love nor money now, it seems so unfair. I haven’t missed a Sondheim show in town for years, so there is only one thing for it: turn up anyway and try to score a ticket on the black market.
If that does not work, forge one, steal one, blag my way in and sit in a stranger’s seat. Or if all else fails, charge the entrance to the stalls. If the mission ends horribly, in violence, injury or distress, I will blame the Royal Opera for staging it at the Linbury Studio Theatre, not the larger capacity Main House.
And, no, I do not seek to compare my enthusiasm for the great writer of the American stage with the intense devotion of a Liverpool supporter left high and dry for a ticket in Athens, but in any debate around the chaos at the Champions League final last month and its subsequent fallout, it is important to acknowledge that in football we accept as stock behaviour that which would not be deemed socially appropriate in any other walk of life.
If you cannot get a ticket for the opening of Pirates of the Caribbean three at the Odeon, you don’t go. Simple as that. Unless you are looking to pay four times face value from a tout, the same applies to George Michael at Wembley, or the Chelsea Flower Show, or the men’s final at Wimbledon. Only in the increasingly bizarre world of the big match do we find nothing unusual in 20,000 people arriving with tickets and the same number arriving without but still expecting to get in, with nothing to do but drink and mill around and fume at their predicament until a combination of frustration, anger and rowdiness culminates in the scenes that we saw outside the Olympic Stadium in Athens.
·
“My heart sank as I stood and watched what was happening. After what happened in Sheffield in 1989 I couldn’t believe Liverpool fans, of all people, could do such dangerous things. I honestly feared people were going to get crushed and we were going to have another Hillsborough. It was disgusting. The people who stormed into the stadium are the scum of the earth. They put at risk hundreds of lives and should be ashamed of themselves. The vast majority of Liverpool fans are impeccably behaved, but there has always been a hard core of mindless thugs that ruin it for the rest. It hurts me to say this, but I won’t be following Liverpool on their travels in future.”
The last line gives it away, but that was not another preemptive rant from William Gaillard, Uefa’s loose-cannon spokesman. These are the words of Phil Hammond, who lost his son Philip at Hillsborough and is chairman of the Hillsborough Family Support Group. When such a man is moved to speak out, it is time to listen.
Gaillard’s love of the limelight and his fondness for the incendiary quote has spoilt it for everybody. Rather than opening a debate about official and personal responsibility, which would have been healthy and could have prevented a tragedy occurring down the line, it has turned the issues into a game of claim and counterclaim. Michel Platini, the Uefa president, was backtracking hastily yesterday, contradicting Gaillard’s smears, and the possibility of a working party to explore suitable final venues is positive, but the accusations that followed the match have trod a predictable path, with two sides pointing fingers and shouting: “You started it.”
Maybe Uefa’s aggressive stance was the product of a general weariness that whenever there is an incident involving English fans in Europe, the news channels, websites and phone-ins overflow with tales of police brutality, Ultra provocation and official incompetence. Some of the accusations have credibility, but less common are accounts that concede that the behaviour of certain Englishmen abroad (and while it is a minority, it is not always a small one) is confrontational.
That is why voices such as Hammond’s and Tony Evans, a Liverpool supporter, author and Deputy Football Editor of The Times, are so important. The day after the final, Evans, while rightly condemning Uefa’s organisation, also conceded that some Liverpool fans regard entering the ground without payment as a badge of honour. The mythology of the wise-cracking scally indulges this and some writers fall for it, but Evans identified this culture as creating an unpleasant atmosphere and hostile scenes inside and outside away grounds.
He cited incidents at Stamford Bridge two years ago and in Eindhoven last season. No doubt these were among reports handed to Richard Caborn, the Sports Minister, by Uefa yesterday. Yet Evans, whose Red credentials are impeccable, can say these things; others cannot. Too often, when an attempt is made to address why Liverpool supporters contrive to be at once England’s most loved (the vibrancy of Anfield on European nights) and its most hated (the attack on the ambulance taking Alan Smith, the Manchester United striker, to hospital after breaking a leg at Anfield) is taken as a slap in the face to the city as a whole. It is not. No one believes that the ambulance chasers were representative of all Liverpool fans, but they were representative of some. The club cannot lay claim to the good but not the bad.
Take the case of Michael Shields, a Liverpool fan imprisoned for the attempted murder of Martin Georgiev, a Bulgarian bartender, while on his way back from the 2005 Champions League final in Istanbul.
Many believe that the Bulgarian authorities got the wrong man, not least because two days after Shields’s conviction on July 26, 2005, Graham Sankey, another Liverpool supporter, confessed to the assault in writing (although his solicitors retracted this claim in March 2006).
The Bulgarian courts insist that Shields is guilty and refuse to accept any evidence from Sankey that is not given in Bulgaria, or by video link. Yet while the Free Michael pressure group has a strong presence inside Anfield, there is no parallel campaign to extradite Sankey, meaning that we have lost sight of the one certain victim here: the barman, Georgiev.
This fits the desire to portray English fans as the victims, forever at the mercy of unscrupulous foreign justice systems and brutal, fascistic policemen. We focus on the innocent casualties of the baton charge — and there have been too many this season — but never ask why such viciousness is deemed necessary.
The issue is wider than Liverpool versus Europe and is better expressed in these constant reminders that the majority of English supporters travel trouble-free. We now want credit for what we are supposed to do; behaviour that should in any civilised country be taken for granted. “We don’t cause any trouble . . .” You’re not meant to cause trouble. “We just want to have a laugh . . .” We all want to have a laugh. “I’ve never been arrested at football . . .” You’re not meant to get arrested at football.
Even Hammond, whose emotions in Athens must have been horribly raw, still added the coda about the impeccable behaviour of most Liverpool fans to his condemnation of the few. We are constantly tiptoeing around the fragile sensibilities of the English football supporter, this shrinking violet so hasty to indignant tears if his integrity is questioned.
It is time to revisit our definition of good behaviour. Basically, people who charge barriers are bad. People who don’t are not good, they are just people, behaving normally. We do not give out praise to the millions of citizens who go about their daily lives without committing a crime. At football, why do we crave recognition for common sense?
The reason we have to address these issues is that only then can we take on Uefa without fear of another descent into worthless tit-for-tat. The bottom line is that Uefa is a lousy tournament manager, as inept as any governing body in world sport. This is dangerous and must change. The European Championship in Portugal in 2004 made the 1998 African Cup of Nations in Burkina Faso look almost Teutonic in its efficiency.
Uefa is so obsessed with its corporate partners that it has taken to holding the Champions League final at inappropriate, generic venues that can be plastered, like a blank canvas, with its brands. For Uefa, the problem with a final at Old Trafford is that evidence of Manchester United, and their commercial partners, is everywhere. Better to send the match to a state-run venue with no club allegiance, even if the stadium is unsuited to the event.
If Liverpool supporters have emerged with reputations scarred from Athens, they deserved medals for venturing without incident to the Atatörk Stadium in Istanbul, an isolated location at odds with the travel needs of a large crowd.

[KolaKubes]

If we had a visionary like Sean Kelly still in charge of the GAA, they'd be on to UEFA in a flash to offer one of the finest stadiums in Europe as an annual neutral venue for this gig.

Would be hugely popular with the fans around Europe. About as neutral as you can get and, let's be frank, no hope of an Irish side ever getting a "home" game as a result.

How much would it be worth to the GAA and to the economy here?

Well, unless the Pool made another final, gurriers. ;)

[EL TORO]

Spot on that piece. spot on.

[Lamps]

Samuel is one of the finest exponents of his art. Truly a man of epic proportions

[KolaKubes]

Re-read Samuel's piece (properly this time).

He's getting at the point I was all along except: a) not always struggling with the latent dislike for Liverpool, b) without putting his foot in his mouth or c) it being presumed that a Utd fan must automatically be just having a go for the sake of points scoring.

Samuel is still a fat fucker, mind.

[Lamps]

Re-read Samuel's piece (properly this time).

He's getting at the point I was all along except: a) not always struggling with the latent dislike for Liverpool, b) without putting his foot in his mouth or c) it being presumed that a Utd fan must automatically be just having a go for the sake of points scoring.

Samuel is still a fat fucker, mind.

Kola, if you have a 150 IQ why can't you do what a fat, odious, Chelsea loving, fat, fan with typewriter can?



fat

[Forsberg]

Kola, if you have a 150 IQ why can't you do what a fat, odious, Chelsea loving, fat, fan with typewriter can?



fat

I thought Samuel was a hammer

[Sound]

Re-read Samuel's piece (properly this time).

He's getting at the point I was all along except: a) not always struggling with the latent dislike for Liverpool, b) without putting his foot in his mouth or c) it being presumed that a Utd fan must automatically be just having a go for the sake of points scoring.

Samuel is still a fat fucker, mind.

He's getting at the point pretty much everyone on this thread has been making for the duration.

[Lamps]

I thought Samuel was a hammer

i said fat not fact.

most of the glitterati try the 'ammers act.

Danny Dyer, Russel Brand, even Alf Garnett.

Its a kind of faux-trendy-hard thing to be. But they all follow Chelsea

[KolaKubes]

Kola, if you have a 150 IQ why can't you do what a fat, odious, Chelsea loving, fat, fan with typewriter can?



fat

He's a West Ham fan.

Lamps, I am an advertisement for the flaws in the concept that an IQ test equates intelligence. Or at least that there's more to intelligence than being able to rotate objects in your head etc.

[Lamps]

He's a West Ham fan.

Lamps, I am an advertisement for the flaws in the concept that an IQ test equates intelligence. Or at least that there's more to intelligence than being able to rotate objects in your head etc.

I've seen the Jimmy Hill show, he's no more a hammer than Greeno of Liverpool fame follows that small club he claims to love. Its Chelsea all the way

[jimmy magee]

Why do they always emphasise the part played by the fans?
Why do they call their children 'kenny' or 'jan'?

[Sound]

Why do they always emphasise the part played by the fans?
Why do they call their children 'kenny' or 'jan'?

Fans cheering is good.

Encouraging fans cheering is also good.

Anything else you need me to clear up?

[jimmy magee]

The fans in question are not match regulars, rather they are schmucks, distanced and deluded by the Liverpool myth.
They want/need to be part of something collective and they pathetically flaunt the shit to show the world that they are something, that they are Liiiverpool, united by the merchandise.

^^the height of 'bumslapping'

^^^pathetic

[Sound]

The fans in question are not match regulars, rather they are schmucks, distanced and deluded by the Liverpool myth.
They want/need to be part of something collective and they pathetically flaunt the shit to show the world that they are something, that they are Liiiverpool, united by the merchandise.

^^the height of 'bumslapping'

^^^pathetic

Are you not the fella who was watching the CL final in his AC Milan jersey? I am well aware of the inherent oddness of following an English team but someone who follows one from even further afield while wearing their colours cant really be casting aspersions.

You've been served.

[KolaKubes]

Are you not the fella who was watching the CL final in his AC Milan jersey? I am well aware of the inherent oddness of following an English team but someone who follows one from even further afield while wearing their colours cant really be casting aspersions.

You've been served.

It's not really that odd, is it?

I still feel more attachment to Utd than "local" teams like Munster.

[Sound]

It's not really that odd, is it?

I still feel more attachment to Utd than "local" teams like Munster.

I am aware of the irony if anything. I'm just pointing to the fact that Jimmy's sense of irony seems to be on the blink.

[jimmy magee]

I still feel more attachment to Utd than "local" teams like Munster.

what sorta stupid fuckin comment is that..:p bringing ruggers into the debate.

fuck sake

[KolaKubes]

what sorta stupid fuckin comment is that..:p bringing ruggers into the debate.

fuck sake

The Forum badly needs a good old Jocks vs The Englightened rugby debate to breathe a bit of life into it. :D

Any excuse like. ;)

[jimmy magee]

I am aware of the irony if anything. I'm just pointing to the fact that Jimmy's sense of irony seems to be on the blink.

nonsense..
the point is that pool fans are pathetically insecure and need to be part of a group. They show the world that they are by plastering the Bird merchandise all over the gaff..

[Sound]

what sorta stupid fuckin comment is that..:p bringing ruggers into the debate.

fuck sake

'Twould be more in your line to try to wriggle your way out of the rameise you posted above.

[Sound]

nonsense..
the point is that pool fans are pathetically insecure and need to be part of a group. They show the world that they are by plastering the Bird merchandise all over the gaff..

Here are some facts child-

You criticised Pool fans for wearing jerseys yet complained about getting hassle whilst wearing an AC Milan jersey whilst watching the CL final.

AC Milan are just as foreign a team as Liverpool.

[KolaKubes]

Here are some facts child-

You criticised Pool fans for wearing jerseys yet complained about getting hassle whilst wearing an AC Milan jersey whilst watching the CL final.

AC Milan are just as foreign a team as Liverpool.

A lot more foreign if you're from North Dublin. Twinned with Liverpool if ever there was a place.

[jimmy magee]

Milan tick many aesthetical football boxes for me.. none of these boxes can be compared to Bird fans' motives for support..

CCFC fulfill the needs that Milan and Rovers cannot

[Sound]

Milan tick many aesthetical football boxes for me.. none of these boxes can be compared to Bird fans' motives for support..

CCFC fulfill the needs that Milan and Rovers cannot

Do you find wearing Milan's jersey pleasing then?

What is the Italian for 'hypocrite'?

[KolaKubes]

Milan tick many aesthetical football boxes for me.. none of these boxes can be compared to Bird fans' motives for support..

CCFC fulfill the needs that Milan and Rovers cannot

Milan?

Dunno. They're dodgy as fuck like. Not quite Madrid or Chelsea but getting there.

Liverpool have a lot more going for them. Style aside.

[jimmy magee]

Do you find wearing Milan's jersey pleasing then?



yes because of the reason i've just given..

[Sound]

yes because of the reason i've just given..

WHOOSH!

[Lamps]

purple smiley for Magoo,

he's been uber-burned, not since EddieB and Fitzy burst on the scene has a fella made such an impression

[POL]

is this the same jimmy magee who covered himself in glory over the Seedorf debacle? Know you sport Jimmy, know your sport...

[Lamps]

Know your sport indeed.

The mystery guest at Jimmy Magoo's house being a bit of cop on

In Magoo, I feel we have a real playa on our hands.

Jimmy lad, will you throw up a fact file there, team supported, age, job, where you live, school attended etc etc

Ta, it'll help speed things up

[POL]

for 5 points Jimmy, the mystery guest has won European Cups at 3 clubs :lol!:

[Lamps]

http://www.rte.ie/laweb/images/t07/t07h_jmageex170x100. jpg

For 1 point and a wonderful Know Your Sport umbrella, tell us Magoo, how much of a langer are you?

[jimmy magee]

http://www.rte.ie/laweb/images/t07/t07h_jmageex170x100. jpg

"my analysis of all things social and all things football is untouchable!"

[Actin The Sham]

In all seriousness, I think that Irish people who "follow" English clubs ahould be very careful "following" them to European away matches. If you show up anywhere on the mainland wearing an English soccer club replica shirt then you are automatically, (and rightly) assumed to be an English soccer "supporter." Don't be surprised if the authorities' attitudes towards you are different then they would be if you were following the Irish soccer team, or an Irish soccer club.

I know of Irish people who have been amazed by the difference in the receptions they received.

[WhatsYourProblem]

Liverpool fans travel to CL away games to thieve places blind, then sell the merchandise when they get home. A disgrace is what they are.

[wat_boy]

Liverpool fans travel to CL away games to thieve places blind, then sell the merchandise when they get home. A disgrace is what they are.

fuck off wum st finnbar

[st finnbar]

These are the words of Phil Hammond who lost his son Phillip at Hillsborough and is the Chairman of the Hillsborough Family Support Group

"My heart sank as I stood and watched what was happening. After what happened at Sheffield in 1989 I couldnt believe the Liverpool fans, of all people could do such dangerous things. I honestly feared people were going to get crushed and we were going to have another Hillsborough. It was disgusting. The people who stormed into the stadium are the scum of the earth.They put at risk hundreds of lives and should be ashamed of themselves> The vast majority of Liverpool fans are impeccably behaved, but there has always been a hardcore of mindless thugs that ruin it for the rest. It hurts me to say this, but I wont be following Liverpool on their travels in future

[wat_boy]

The people who stormed into the stadium are the scum of the earth

yes we know they are scum, whats your point? as for your sig:rolleyes: