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View Full Version : The immaculate deception of Fergie's failures


POL
08-05-2007, 10:03 AM
AS Alex Ferguson stood amid the ruins of another unsuccessful Manchester United Champions League campaign on Wednesday night, the question arose as to whether the Red Devils are seriously underachieving. Is it, in other words, fair to say that the idea of Manchester United as one of the world's great clubs owes more to publicity than achievement?

United's forthcoming Premiership title will no doubt result in the usual quota of encomia being lavished on the boss. Suggestions will be made that Ferguson has somehow proved his critics wrong and that he remains a great manager. But if you judge the club by the highest standards, a first title in four years and another failure to make the Champions League final hardly constitute proof of greatness.

And these things do need to be judged by the highest standard if we are to take United at their own estimation. The club seems to be under the illusion that it is not only one of Europe's great powers, but may in fact be the greatest of them all.

If that's so, then a league title largely handed to United because Chelsea and Arsenal seemed to be at odds with themselves all season is hardly cause for jubilation, especially when events in the San Siro provided a more truthful picture of the club's worth.

United's title is more along the lines of one of those Bundesliga triumphs which Bayern Munich notch up with monotonous regularity. We look at it and give the German kingpins little credit. Big deal, there's only a handful of decent clubs there anyway. They didn't look much cop in Europe, did they? If Real Madrid win the Primera Liga but fail to make a mark in the Champions League, it seems to be universally regarded as a disappointment and provokes a few hundred media variations on the well-worn theme of 'Galacticos in Crisis'.

Yet there's no escaping the blunt fact that since their tremendous Champions League victory in 1999, United have persistently failed to establish themselves as contenders at the very highest level.

Wednesday's humiliation makes it eight European campaigns in a row without so much as a single appearance in the final. In that period, Real Madrid have won the trophy twice, AC Milan have reached three finals, Valencia have made two, the scarcely mighty FC Porto have lifted the cup and the even less mighty Bayer Leverkusen and Monaco have also turned up in the blue riband game.

Ferguson has been given to finessing the situation by claiming that United were in transition, the implication being that another side just as good as the 1999 version was being built. Yet the semi-final seemed to indicate a team standing still. Two years ago Milan outclassed United, winning 1-0 home and away in games which showed United to be a long way off the pace. This year's 5-3 victory was equally comprehensive, the men against boys flavour of proceedings equally pronounced.

Given these repeated failings, how is it that every year without fail United emerge as media favourites to win the Champions League? Well, Ferguson may not be the manager he once was, but he hasn't lost his touch as a manipulator of the press. Few sporting figures are so aware of the importance of public perception.

When United teetered on the brink of an embarrassing group stage exit in last year's competition, he was wont to stifle debate by the simple reiteration of his certainty that they would make it through. When they didn't, he moved on and talked up their prospects in the Carling Cup, a trophy which assumed great importance for the boss once it became clear United weren't going to win anything else.

So much hype attends United's performances that when they do produce the occasional stirring European display, as they did in that marvellous 7-1 home win over Roma, it can seem as though they're already being given credit for the competition victory the papers assure us is now inevitable.

Contrast the kid gloves treatment afforded Ferguson with the current willingness to dance on the grave of Jose Mourinho. Mourinho, it seems, is a failure because Chelsea have failed in three attempts to make the Champions League final. That they have won two Premiership titles in that period is being dismissed as ultimately beside the point. The Champions League, apparently, is the big test and Chelsea have failed it. The money disbursed by Abramovich is slightingly mentioned. Yet, while Chelsea have spent big, so too have United. Wayne Rooney and Rio Ferdinand, after all, came to Old Trafford in the kind of mega transfer deals only the big two in England can manage.

Expect some more bravura covering of the tracks from Ferguson in the near future as he reveals that the Premiership was the one United really wanted to win this season and holds out the hope of a more convincing assault on Europe next season. The fact remains that a truly great club, an AC Milan or a Real Madrid, would hardly have tolerated the underachievement of the last few seasons.

Then again, perhaps it's not underachievement. Perhaps we are all blinded by the Old Trafford publicity machine and that constant insistence that United is the greatest club in Europe. Because, when you examine the evidence, it becomes clear that this greatness is largely financial.

In their entire storied history, after all, United have reached just two European Cup/Champions League finals, the same number as Nottingham Forest, Stade de Reims, Steaua Bucharest and SV Hamburg. It's a record which compares poorly with the likes of Benfica, Bayern Munich and Juventus (seven appearances each), Ajax and Liverpool (six) and Barcelona (five).

Above all, it pales into insignificance when you consider the record of Europe's two genuine giants. Real Madrid, (10 finals, eight wins) and AC Milan (Now in their 10th final, four wins so far). Both historically and contemporaneously, the kings of Spanish and Italian soccer leave United far behind.

That we find it difficult to see this clearly in this country merely indicates how Anglocentric our view of football is. We are still disposed to regard Roy Keane's magnificent European displays in the 1998-'99 season as proof that our man is the ne plus ultra of midfielders, a man who is the very definition of a winner.

Yet who was that dominating midfield on Wednesday night, as he has done on so many big European occasions, and scoring a splendid goal into the bargain? Clarence Seedorf, that's who. Seedorf has been so good for so long in Europe that he has won Champions League honours with three different clubs, Ajax, Real Madrid and AC Milan.

Even Paul Scholes didn't look to be in the same class as him on Wednesday. Yet, to be honest, the casual fans on this island probably only have a vague idea of who the man is. That big island beside us fatally blocks our view of Europe sometimes.

So brace yourself for another round of plaudits for Ferguson. Brace yourself for another round of Champions League previews where United are selected as possible winners. And, above all, brace yourself for another premature exit by Europe's smallest giants.

(Eammon Sweeney)

nemesis
08-05-2007, 10:06 AM
http://ducksweb.blogs.com/ducks_weblog/files/comical_ali.jpg

POL
08-05-2007, 10:09 AM
Sweeney is right

I posted last week about Ferguson's inability, even though he manages the richest club in the world, to set up a tactically aware team to compete in the upper echelons of European competition. Only getting to one Big Cup final in 20 years is the epitome of failure at the highest level and he would have been turfed out of any of the far more successful European sides with such a pitiful record.

Now it's no surprise to hear the 'we wanted the EPL all along stories' after they were taught such an all encompassing lesson on how to play top level football by Milan last week.

POL
08-05-2007, 10:12 AM
This is real heart warming stuff. I take it the principle opposition to the Glazer takeover of the Manchester franchise has long since being forgotten.

BBC Sport - Glazers aided title push

Manchester United chief executive David Gill believes the Glazer family's Old Trafford takeover helped the club to clinch another Premiership title.

The Glazers took control in the summer of 2005 and Gill told BBC Five Live: "Their ownership has brought stability and we are all benefiting from that.

"They have got involved in areas where they feel they can add value.

"But in other, football, areas they have allowed manager Sir Alex Ferguson and others to get on with it."

After American tycoon Malcolm Glazer completed his takeover he appointed sons Joel, Avram and Bryan as non-executive directors - but some fans voiced fears over the future of United.

However, last October a Glazer spokesman told BBC Sport that the family were committed to making the club a success.

Gill said that he spoke to the Glazers on Sunday after United won the Premiership crown as a result of Chelsea's 1-1 draw at Arsenal.

He added: "They are delighted - and so they should be. They are sports fans and they know what running a sports club is all about.

"All the doomsayers who said we would be in trouble have been proved wrong."

And as well as hailing the Glazer's contribution to United's first title in four years, Gill heaped praise on boss Ferguson, who proved his decision not to retire in 2002 was the right one.

"Alex is a winner," said Gill. "He is very experienced and still has that motivation after many, many years.

"He has a great eye for spotting talent - he is second to none in that area.

"We have brought in 10 or 12 players since 2003, and Alex has done that very well - bringing in young payers who fit into the way Manchester United play.

"The team has changed a lot in the last three years. Winning the title is a fantastic achievement."

And Gill claimed that winning the title has also tempered the disappointment felt after United went out of the Champions League to AC Milan in the semi-finals.

"We were very disappointed after losing to Milan, but we've worked very hard to win the Premiership and for me that is the benchmark," he said.

"Everyone is delighted to have won it again having not won it for four years."

EDDIEB
08-05-2007, 10:15 AM
Sweeney is right

I posted last week about Ferguson's inability, even though he manages the richest club in the world, to set up a tactically aware team to compete in the upper echelons of European competition. Only getting to one Big Cup final in 20 years is the epitome of failure at the highest level and he would have been turfed out of any of the far more successful European sides with such a pitiful record.

Now it's no surprise to hear the 'we wanted the EPL all along stories' after they were taught such an all encompassing lesson on how to play top level football by Milan last week.

Sweeney is a great lover of Cork hurlers success.......Sligo prick.

nemesis
08-05-2007, 10:17 AM
This is real heart warming stuff. I take it the principle opposition to the Glazer takeover of the Manchester franchise has long since being forgotten.

Since when was David Gill an opponent of the Glazer takeover?

psy93
08-05-2007, 10:18 AM
http://ducksweb.blogs.com/ducks_weblog/files/comical_ali.jpg

quality:lol!: :lol!: :lol!:

RonnyB
08-05-2007, 10:44 AM
Read the first paragraph, scrolled down to see all the replies and then saw the article was written by Eamonn Sweeney. I can imagine its a load of rubbish & I made the vow after his comments on Brian Corcoran never to read any of his tripe again.

EDDIEB
08-05-2007, 10:46 AM
Read the first paragraph, scrolled down to see all the replies and then saw the article was written by Eamonn Sweeney. I can imagine its a load of rubbish & I made the vow after his comments on Brian Corcoran never to read any of his tripe again.

He's a prick from Sligo.

Ignore.

POL
08-05-2007, 10:49 AM
hehe, Bumslappers are rattled by the truth :lol!:

nemesis
08-05-2007, 10:50 AM
hehe, Bumslappers are rattled by the truth :lol!:

http://ducksweb.blogs.com/ducks_weblog/files/comical_ali.jpg

KolaKubes
08-05-2007, 10:55 AM
My God, he hasn't just C&P'd a piece from Eamonn Sweeney of all people?

Anyway, yes, Utd have only got the two European Cups.

Same as Barcelona.

Crippling ABUism aside, anyone who'd claim that Barcelona are anything other than one of the top three clubs in the world despite their minimal haul of European Cups is just being plain silly.

Turn it around, are we to take it that Nottingham Forest are a greater club than Arsenal because they have two European Cups while the latter (in common with all London clubs) have none?

It's a bullshit argument.

Fair play to Liverpool, Ajax et al for racking up such an impressive haul of ECs but the steady metronome of success is domestic titles because of the league format.

Ferguson finally admitted his obsession with winning the European Cup yesterday and there's many the Utd fan who feel that we sacrificed an extremely strong position in pursuit of adapting our team to playing in a cup competition from 2000 onwards. If you look at how Liverpool have added to their EC tally, playing their own brand of football and imposing it on the opposition, you have to wonder about the logic of Ferguson's approach there.

Noone is claiming that Fergie is infallible but to be taking potshots at him about his team falling at the semi-final hurdle in a season where they've claimed one of their most memorable league titles is the height of pettiness.

RonnyB
08-05-2007, 11:00 AM
Not to mention United had 3 of their 1st choice defensive 4 out of the home semi final while the other clearly lacked match fitness.

Again never let the facts overshadow the WUM's.

POL
08-05-2007, 11:00 AM
congratulations on being the best at Kick and rush over 38 games, thats where its at alright :lol!:

One only has to look at the AC Milan result to see where United stand in the bigger order of things

Forsberg
08-05-2007, 11:23 AM
Yet who was that dominating midfield on Wednesday night, as he has done on so many big European occasions, and scoring a splendid goal into the bargain? Clarence Seedorf, that's who. Seedorf has been so good for so long in Europe that he has won Champions League honours with three different clubs, Ajax, Real Madrid and AC Milan.


(Eammon Sweeney)

Sweeney is right

I'm glad you finally admit you got it wrong about Seedorf :D

STEVIEG
08-05-2007, 12:28 PM
I'm glad you finally admit you got it wrong about Seedorf :D

:):):)

STEVIEG
16-05-2011, 11:56 AM
Eamonn knew his shit!

Michael P Splonk
16-05-2011, 12:14 PM
Stevie is bumping old threads.

Stevie is rattled.

STEVIEG
16-05-2011, 12:17 PM
stevie is bumping old threads.

Stevie is rattled.

19

Michael P Splonk
16-05-2011, 12:17 PM
19

Rattled.

STEVIEG
16-05-2011, 12:18 PM
Rattled.

You seem to be

Take it

and embrace it

You were generally wrong all these years

Soccer isn't your thing and it shows

Michael P Splonk
16-05-2011, 12:20 PM
You seem to be

Take it

and embrace it

You were generally wrong all these years

Soccer isn't your thing and it shows

No stevie, soccer isn't your thing.

STEVIEG
16-05-2011, 12:22 PM
Great comeback....

You are lucky i don't have the time or inclination to go bumping your own masterpieces!

Michael P Splonk
16-05-2011, 12:29 PM
Great comeback....

You are lucky i don't have the time or inclination to go bumping your own masterpieces!

I'm sure you'll find the time Stevie, its what you do when you are rattled.

STEVIEG
16-05-2011, 12:31 PM
I'm sure you'll find the time Stevie, its what you do when you are rattled.

Poor Lamps

(Stopped watching football in 1990!)

Stick to sweet valley high you are out of your depth here
I don't want you retiring yet another username so let's leave it at that

Good luck in the final ye are defo favourites

Michael P Splonk
16-05-2011, 12:34 PM
Poor Lamps

(Stopped watching football in 1990!)

Stick to sweet valley high you are out of your depth here
I don't want you retiring yet another username so let's leave it at that

Good luck in the final ye are defo favourites

We've just won 3 in a row and play the best soccer of all the soccer teams.

And stop trying to make this personal Stevie, I've told you this before. Too many times.

STEVIEG
16-05-2011, 12:50 PM
We've just won 3 in a row and play the best soccer of all the soccer teams.

And stop trying to make this personal Stevie, I've told you this before. Too many times.

1-heh heh heh
2-You've got very personal in your less mature days

I'm gonna enjoy the next few weeks and the run up to another CL final and a then a new season

But I will be keeping tabs on those that step out of line so be careful:)