Why I won't vote for FF

[rebs23]

Don't have any political allegiance and have given MM a vote in the past but no way will I vote for them again for following reasons;

Cork Airport- OK we could live with the 100ml debt but not the 40 million given to 2 other competitors in Munster (Kerry and Waterford). How many airports does this country need? How many does Munster need?
Why did Cork Airport not get any share of the Airport Duty Free Shops and the Great Southern Hotel Group?

Decentralisation- Cork is supposed to be Irelands second city yet does not have any major Government Department and is actually going to have Civil Servants decentralised from the city. What the city centre really needs is a big office type jobs boost but no we are the only city outside of Dublin to actually have civil servants "decentralised." National Spatial Strategy me arse.

Cork Docklands - An absolute disgrace that CIE are allowed to let the Kent redevelopment swing in the wind for at least 10 years now and the only reason Treasury put in their recent planning application was to boost their value before selling up. Why can't Cork have a similar statutory body to the Dublin Docklands Development Authority? Why no tax breaks for this type of redevelopment outside of Dublin?

Infrastructural Development - Nothing whatsoever, zilch, big zero for all road projects for at least another 4 years. No Bandon Rd flyover no Sarsfields Rd flyover, no North Ring Road, No improvements linking Cork and Limerick, nothing on the Kerry or Waterford routes, a big zilch. Oh and we are still awaiting a decision on the Midleton Line and you can bet your house on it that when it does get signed off just before the election that there will be further delays as CIE will have to prioritise spending elsewhere.

City Boundary - An absolute joke that whenever the size of Cork City is talked about that the references made are to 119,000. The pop of the city proper is at least 250,000 yet nothing is done to actually alter the boundary or get the CSO to report the city pop according to actual suburbs etc. We are losing out big time on investment as a result of this false statistic and the perception out there is that Cork's pop is in decline. FFS the City and County is probably over 500,000 at this stage.

Oh I could go on but I needed to get that off my chest, I suppose you could call me your typical Cork Whinger and moaner but we need to make FF pay at the next election. A city and county with a pop of 500,000 cannot go on to be treated with the utter neglect that FF treats us with.

I suppose thats what you get after 30 years of Thaoisaigh from Dublin.

[jungle]

For the Docklands, add in that the EU approved special tax treatment for them, but nothing was included in the budget. The result? All the developers will sit on their land for another year because starting would be a financial risk.

Imagine that. A government that has actually done something to stall development.

And don't get me started on not buying any new buses for 5 years and then in an election year coming up with the funding to replace the buses that are going out of service.

I'm not sure it's an anti-Cork conspiracy as much as incompetence. After all, they've failed to get the Dublin Transportation Office (the body that is supposed to coordinate buses, trains and trams up there) running. All that would take is a pen-stroke to at least get it moving, but it looks like delay is the name of the game there too.

[Gael]

Fianna Fáil was set up 1926 with the primary aims of a United Ireland and the retoration of the Irish language. When they can't even get the basics right after 80 years...............

[VVV05]

I have voted for the present govt in the last two elections, but all the reasons mentioned above (and more), I will abosolutely not be voting them this time. I don't like the idea of voting a rainbow coalition in to govt either, but this is a matter of principle. M Cullen, in particular, has a lot to answer for. I only hope cork voters have the balls and the conviction to give these guys a serious lesson

[In da Lough Like]

The painfully slow roll out of broadband...

[Chelsea Hotel #2]

The Government record on Cork (both city and county) in every imaginable way has been simply appalling. All the more so when you consider the unprecedented economic development over the last ten years.

Their persistant failures have been well documented here and elsewhere. It is particularly galling that few can cite meaningful examples of tangible delivery to Cork.

I have the misfortune to encounter politicians on a regular basis in my work. The calibre of public representative from Minister to Local councillor is just dire, with very few notable exceptions.

Roll on the election - it's payback time!

[Echoboy]

Don't have any political allegiance and have given MM a vote in the past but no way will I vote for them again for following reasons

Dont have any either but its glaringly bad that no FF from Cork are saying anything, as if they are just resigned to the fact they will lose it and they will just take it on the chin.

Cork Airport- OK we could live with the 100ml debt but not the 40 million given to 2 other competitors in Munster (Kerry and Waterford). How many airports does this country need? How many does Munster need?
Why did Cork Airport not get any share of the Airport Duty Free Shops and the Great Southern Hotel Group? Shannon and Cork should join forces, sounds mad i know but its definitely something to be looked at. A decent road between the two and we'd kick áss. As it is now it a mess, serious kick in the teeth. Dont like this 'keep them down approach'

Decentralisation- Cork is supposed to be Irelands second city yet does not have any major Government Department and is actually going to have Civil Servants decentralised from the city. What the city centre really needs is a big office type jobs boost but no we are the only city outside of Dublin to actually have civil servants "decentralised." National Spatial Strategy me arse.Sure just look when it was rolled out, on a budget day ?!!?! Typical FF 'no actual policy', just try and keep them happy. Politics for a third world country going on there like. Cork FF politians very quite for all of this.

Cork Docklands - An absolute disgrace that CIE are allowed to let the Kent redevelopment swing in the wind for at least 10 years now and the only reason Treasury put in their recent planning application was to boost their value before selling up. Why can't Cork have a similar statutory body to the Dublin Docklands Development Authority? Why no tax breaks for this type of redevelopment outside of Dublin?Dublin Chamber of commerce looking for 65% of development budget because ..... wait for it ....... "We'll all benefit if they do", where in gods name are they coming out with this stuff.

Infrastructural Development - Nothing whatsoever, zilch, big zero for all road projects for at least another 4 years. No Bandon Rd flyover no Sarsfields Rd flyover, no North Ring Road, No improvements linking Cork and Limerick, nothing on the Kerry or Waterford routes, a big zilch. Oh and we are still awaiting a decision on the Midleton Line and you can bet your house on it that when it does get signed off just before the election that there will be further delays as CIE will have to prioritise spending elsewhere.NDP me arse, look at the ratios, all their own numbers tell the story, end of sceal. ALL Cork politians, for every party chronically quiet on this one.

City Boundary - An absolute joke that whenever the size of Cork City is talked about that the references made are to 119,000. The pop of the city proper is at least 250,000 yet nothing is done to actually alter the boundary or get the CSO to report the city pop according to actual suburbs etc. We are losing out big time on investment as a result of this false statistic and the perception out there is that Cork's pop is in decline. FFS the City and County is probably over 500,000 at this stage.Ballincollig and Carrigaline outside the boundry even after the enlargement STILL cant have town mayor to try and kick start something. How in gods name are local politians allowing them to shuffle this sh!te. Last decent voice in Cork was Jack Lynch, then again its Cork vote the took him out of power. FF have alot to answer for, more than people actually know.

Oh I could go on but I needed to get that off my chest, I suppose you could call me your typical Cork Whinger and moaner but we need to make FF pay at the next election. A city and county with a pop of 500,000 cannot go on to be treated with the utter neglect that FF treats us with. You gave it a fair crack of the whip anyway, i dont have the heart to go into it, they have broken me down, maybe thats what they are trying to do.

As for calling you a moaner ..... sorry now but its well past that stage. Anyone that says that doesn't have your interests at heart.

I suppose thats what you get after 30 years of Thaoisaigh from Dublin.Question is, would you want any of the current Cork FF lot in there? They haven't the bottle .... could you live with yourself if you did the same to the rest of the country? We are getting shafted big style, and if they whole country got the same (obviously the pale wouldn't suffer) then we'd be in the dark ages.

The Government record on Cork (both city and county) in every imaginable way has been simply appalling. All the more so when you consider the unprecedented economic development over the last ten years.

But they tell us such a different story? Whos wrong? 'Why are we lying to ourselves?' i hear them say. We all know the sceal, no amount of bullsh!t will cover them now. Apathy is our biggest enemy now.

Their persistant failures have been well documented here and elsewhere. It is particularly galling that few can cite meaningful examples of tangible delivery to Cork.And some of those lame fúckers are from Cork, and work here. Its like they just wont look or listen. Its the fúckers stabbing you in the back are the worst of 'em.

I have the misfortune to encounter politicians on a regular basis in my work. The calibre of public representative from Minister to Local councillor is just dire, with very few notable exceptions. Sure look at the last few City managers, that will tell you all you need to know.

Roll on the election - it's payback time!You better check your watch again there fella, should be ....

"Roll on the election - it's change your vote and keep it that way for a life-time"

As i said, apathy is our worst enemy. If people got off the fence and voted then things would have to improve. Even casting a vote would help us no matter who it is, obviously not FF like.

[Cork]

FF/PDs have been the most successful Irish government ever.

Look at the employment - have ye ever talked to non Irish workers?

Look at Northern Ireland - the peace process was in tatters before Bertie took over.

Even look at O Connell St, Patrick St, - this country has been transformed over the last 10 years.

Compare Berties achievement to that of Enda Kenny?

After spending years in Dail Eireann - Kenny has achieved what exactly?

I will be voting FF in the next election:
They have promised to reduce tax and prsi
They have said they'll increase the pension to 300 for the old
They promised tax relief on part time college courses.

Infrastucture - Ballincollig Bypass, Cork School of Music etc??

The airport? People use Shannon as flights are not available from Cork. This is a metter for airport management.

Boundary changes is a metter for local rather than national government.

Cork has never been doing as well. Never have there been more at work in the city.

FF has more than delivered for Cork.

[Wumble]

Infrastucture - Ballincollig Bypass, Cork School of Music etc??

My sides.

They split.

[Cork]

My sides -They split.

Pull yourself together man.

The new national development plan will put billions into infrastructure.

Never was there as much being put into infrastructure.

[Echoboy]

You have got to be kidding here right? Please tell me you are?

Even that fact that if all the above was true then its still very short of the mark of what should have been done, so much so it they barely left the starting line.

You are trying to defend the indefensible here. Just because FF tell us 'things are better' that doesn't make it true.

FF/PDs have been the most successful Irish government ever.

Ah no they haven't, what is true is they were in government at a time when they COULD HAVE BEEN the most successful, they let that chance slip away. Just because they had the chance doesn't bolster their position, if anything it weakens it. They have fúcked up on a biblical scale and we all know it.

Look at the employment - have ye ever talked to non Irish workers?

Pfizer, Motorola, Bupa and countless others. The is a huge shift taking place in the kind of work that is going on and they are doing little to accommodate it. Non nationals will be gone in the moring when its all dried up and your arguement will be gone with them.

Look at Northern Ireland - the peace process was in tatters before Bertie took over.Yeah, it was only Bertie that worked for this. That is one way of insulting thousands upon thousands of people in one swepeing statement.

Even look at O Connell St, Patrick St, - this country has been transformed over the last 10 years.And Grande Parade is still being finish and Cork 2005 is a distant memory now. Completely lame arguement, clutching at straws. I bet you were racking your brain for that one.

Compare Berties achievement to that of Enda Kenny?Who is in power?

After spending years in Dail Eireann - Kenny has achieved what exactly?Who is in power?

I will be voting FF in the next election:Idiots dont get medals for being idiots.

They have promised to reduce tax and prsi
They have said they'll increase the pension to 300 for the old
They promised tax relief on part time college courses.Please spare me of this drivel, are you listening to what other parties are promising.

Infrastucture - Ballincollig Bypass, Cork School of Music etc??Bypass was ten years late and we all know Berties performance on the CSoM, i cannot believe you have cited this in their defense. Are you losing all reason?

Midelton Railway, how long has it been promised? And STILL nothing has been signed.

Look at the disproportionate spending on infrastructure in this county when compared with Dublin. Are you for real?

And while you are on infrastructure, public transport is chronic in this county and NOTHING is being done to improve it, in ten (10) years.

The airport? People use Shannon as flights are not available from Cork. This is a metter for airport management.We were promised a debt free airport that was not stripped of its assets, that is NOT what we are getting. You are looking for excuses to to try and defend this and you are doing a very poor shoody job of it.

Why are you trying to insult members of this forum?

Boundary changes is a metter for local rather than national government.Hello? This is relevent now why? You are rambling, get a grip and hold it together, you are disgracing us at this stage.

Cork has never been doing as well. Never have there been more at work in the city.Wrong

FF has more than delivered for Cork.Wrong again ..... when the fawk are you going to learn? What is so hard, why are you finiding this so difficult? I'm not good with the performance of this government just as much as the next guy but at least i have the balls to admit it and look for an alternative before its too late and gone beyond repair. If you actually gave a fawk about your county then you would do the same.

And remember, just because they are filling you with bullshít, you dont automatically have to believe it. Dont be so weak, you are leaving the side down.

[Cork]

Never has there been more working in Cork.
I can post up lots of figures on this if you wish.

Let me know how national government can change local government boundaries - this is an issue for local cork councillors.

We are one of the most successful economies in the EU - this is not done to chance.

Have ye noticed high unemployment in France or Germany?

[Tube a Pringles]

Pass the Rose tinted glasses there will ya.........

[Wumble]

I'm still trying to recover from his/her citation of the School of Music and the Ballincollig "Slave Labour" Bypass as jewels in the FF crown.

Do you even know what had to be done to get the School of Music off the ground, Cork, or the conditions students and teachers put up with for years while locked out of the building?

The money spent on renting hotel rooms around Cork so classes could continue?

The local elections where independent candidates were put forward on the issue of the School of Music alone?

Have you looked at the latest projections for Cork's infrastructure?

How about wider issues - ones of national importance?

What about the health service? What about transport? What about the environment? What about prison and justice system reform?

Where have you been living?

[Echoboy]

Never has there been more working in Cork.
I can post up lots of figures on this if you wish.

Let me know how national government can change local government boundaries - this is an issue for local cork councillors.

We are one of the most successful economies in the EU - this is not done to chance.

Have ye noticed high unemployment in France or Germany?

LAME

[Cork]

What about the health service?

State of the art maternity hospital - 75 to 80 million investment alone?

Show me where has been spent on health service,transport , prisons and garda under previous governments?

Facts are Gross Domestic Product and Gross National Product both expected to rise by 5.3 per cent this year.

Employment figures are also strong.

There is nothing "LAME" about the Irish economy. It is pretty well managed.

Ask any east europeans about our ecocomy?

Fact:Never has there been more working in our economy than under this government.

There never has been a more successful government that this one. I can post up employment figures, tax take or public spending - if ye want.

I would much prefer to discuss facts that just anti government soundbytes.

[Cork]

But I surpose it is better to discuss policy.

FF and Labour both want the standard tax rate to be 18% (down 2)

FG seem to be clueless on personal tax.

FF, PDs and Labour want to increase the OAP Pension to over 300 Euros.

FF wants to give grants to those who do part time courses (I am going back to college in September on a part time basis - this was a vote winner for me).

So, fair play to FF, Labour and the PDs - we have their policies.

What policies do ye want??

[doppellanger]

FF wants to give grants to those who do part time courses (I am going back to college in September on a part time basis - this was a vote winner for me).


LOSTFU

[Wumble]

State of the art maternity hospital - 75 to 80 million investment alone?

And an abominable fuckup by an abominable minister for health, plonked there by the baul Bertie because he needed her microscopic party to get into government, which saw all sorts of nursie shenanigans.

One maternity hospital does not health reform make. There was a good letter in Saturday's Irish Times, I'll see if I can fish it out.

Show me where has been spent on health service,transport , prisons and garda under previous governments?

Show me where they had the money.

Facts are Gross Domestic Product and Gross National Product both expected to rise by 5.3 per cent this year.

In spite of, not thanks to, this government.

Employment figures are also strong.

Jobs are jobs, but some jobs are more equal than others. An economy built on call-centres is not the way forward. And employment figures in the home county of the Minister for Enterprise are laughable.

There is nothing "LAME" about the Irish economy. It is pretty well managed.

So's your average McDonald's but I wouldn't be holding it up as the epitome of good business.

Ask any east europeans about our ecocomy?

When they've had the time and the opportunities we've had, they'll leave us for dead.

I would much prefer to discuss facts that just anti government soundbytes.

Off with you. But fifty cheap-ass part-time minimum-wage jobs aren't going to cover for ten high-end skills- or knowledge-based jobs in any economy anywhere. Ever.

[Echoboy]

State of the art maternity hospital - 75 to 80 million investment alone?

Show me where has been spent on health service,transport , prisons and garda under previous governments?

Facts are Gross Domestic Product and Gross National Product both expected to rise by 5.3 per cent this year.

Employment figures are also strong.

There is nothing "LAME" about the Irish economy. It is pretty well managed.

Ask any east europeans about our ecocomy?

Fact:Never has there been more working in our economy than under this government.

There never has been a more successful government that this one. I can post up employment figures, tax take or public spending - if ye want.

I would much prefer to discuss facts that just anti government soundbytes.

You cannot see past this lot and YOU seem like someone that really needs to. We are missing the boat and it people like you who are at fault. All we can hope for now is the opposition get it and try and curb some of the complete and utter failed decisions by FF and PDs and hopefully we'll get back on track.

Stop reading their campaign posters because it doesn't tell you the full picture. Can you at least listen to what other parties are saying and take it onboard. FF are a disaster and need one term out of power to sort out their mess. IMO they might be fairly good in opposition and keep the new lot on their toes.

If they get one more term then we are fúcked. At this stage we dont have an option unless you happy with a complete nose dive.

Go and think about what you've done will ya :rolleyes::(

[jungle]

To the Fianna Fail representative in this thread...

If Fianna Fail are so great...

Why haven't we seen any new buses in Cork since just before the last election?

Why does Cork get half the average level of non-national road funding per capita of the average county?

Why were there no tax breaks announced for Cork Docklands Development in the last budget? They were approved by the EU already all that's holding them up is central government.

Why was no government department de-centralised to Cork?

And that's in addition to the stuff mentioned above by others and in addition to the things they get wrong on a national scale like the health service.

[Professor Piehead]

My sides -They split.

Pull yourself together man.

The new national development plan will put billions into infrastructure.

Never was there as much being put into infrastructure.

Dublins infrastrucure. One of the reasons I won't be voting Fianna Failure is the total disrespect they show to gods county.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

I will be voting FF, life has never been better for me and my family.
long may the good times last.

[Professor Piehead]

I will be voting FF, life has never been better for me and my family.
long may the good times last.

http://www.theratandmouse.c o.uk/weblog/archives/loadsamoney.jpg

[jungle]

I will be voting FF, life has never been better for me and my family.
long may the good times last.

If you enjoy having to travel to Shannon for a transatlantic flight or getting stuck in traffic because the public transport option wasn't there or seeing talented young people having to leave Cork for a job because there are no opportunities around or watching your father wait 6 weeks for an appointment with a consultant, never mind actually having an operation, then life has never been so good.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

If you enjoy having to travel to Shannon for a transatlantic flight or getting stuck in traffic because the public transport option wasn't there or seeing talented young people having to leave Cork for a job because there are no opportunities around or watching your father wait 6 weeks for an appointment with a consultant, never mind actually having an operation, then life has never been so good.``````


sure Shannon is only an hour up the road... whats the problem with that. most countries i have lived in the international airport was about 1-3 hours away from where we were staying...
I don't use public transport.
Seen many young people leave Ireland, but that was in the 80 with FG in power, and let me put your mind at rest... a lot more left then that are now.
ya health is an issue, but no one government will solve that, and anybody who thinks that a new government will solve the health issue is deluded.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

http://www.theratandmouse.c o.uk/weblog/archives/loadsamoney.jpg

didn't somebody use that last week....
ohhhhhhhhh.....poor, sure what do ya expect from a west brit

[jungle]

sure Shannon is only an hour up the road... whats the problem with that. most countries i have lived in the international airport was about 1-3 hours away from where we were staying...

If you're speeding and have a car available. Lack of transatlantic flights will also deter US investors from opening up in Cork.

I don't use public transport.

Even so, if more people did, your journey would be better.

Seen many young people leave Ireland, but that was in the 80 with FG in power, and let me put your mind at rest... a lot more left then that are now.

It's still happening now. When I look at my class from UCC, almost all have had to leave to fulfil their ambitions. Maybe they've had to go to Dublin instead of London, but that's not really much different

ya health is an issue, but no one government will solve that, and anybody who thinks that a new government will solve the health issue is deluded.

The current crowd have had 10 years and failed. Let's give someone else a try.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

If you're speeding and have a car available. Lack of transatlantic flights will also deter US investors from opening up in Cork.
Even so, if more people did, your journey would be better.
It's still happening now. When I look at my class from UCC, almost all have had to leave to fulfil their ambitions. Maybe they've had to go to Dublin instead of London, but that's not really much different
The current crowd have had 10 years and failed. Let's give someone else a try.

ya sure, sure the have been very slow in the past to invest in cork.....NOT

why would it.

UCC ha, jasssus in the 80 is was after the inter or leaving. And then up to Dublin( isn't that still part of Ireland therefore under the government) and not to London or new york...my god how we have improved.

[jungle]

I don't see many American IT or financial services firms that have invested in Cork. Those are the kind of companies who need the geed transportation links.

As for the Dublin or London argument, it's pretty irrelevant to someone who didn't want to leave whether the job they got offered was inside or outside the state.

I could get back from Amsterdam, never mind London, on a Friday evening earlier than I could from Dublin. Who collects the taxes is not really relevant.

[Professor Piehead]

didn't somebody use that last week....
ohhhhhhhhh.....poor, sure what do ya expect from a west brit

That was the song on youtube. You see the problem with you Fianna Failures is that you know the price of everything and the value of nothing. What's needed is a government that actually cares for Ireland and it's people. What you have at the moment is a crowd of thieves and incompetents who's mantra is 'the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many'

[Some user]

To the Fianna Fail representative in this thread...

If Fianna Fail are so great...
Why was no government department de-centralised to Cork?



Because they know we'll be a seperate country soon!

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

I don't see many American IT or financial services firms that have invested in Cork.


and i presume that the is the only area your interested in...

and ye go on about me been selfish...... ha, you have proved my point.

ye are all holier that thou with ye cheap Internet talk....
but when it comes to it, only interested in yourselves/.......just like the rest of us.

self preservation prevails........even in the green party

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

That was the song on youtube.

be original for once and stop following the crowd. you'll get a little more respect on here.

[jungle]

and i presume that the is the only area your interested in...

and ye go on about me been selfish...... ha, you have proved my point.

ye are all holier that thou with ye cheap Internet talk....
but when it comes to it, only interested in yourselves/.......just like the rest of us.

self preservation prevails........even in the green party

They are two completely unrelated areas. FYI My speciality is in telcos, so there's a bit of overlap with IT, but none with financial services. And I've never voted Green.

Still attacking the person making the argument is the ultimate sign that you've lost it.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

Still attacking the person making the argument is the ultimate sign that you've lost it.

well look back over the threads i have posted in......

i must be the winner in all of them....

because that all ye seem to do to a FF supporter....

[jungle]

I think people have argued the point with Fianna Fail supporters, but they have failed to come up with answers. I still haven't heard a good explanation for why Cork should get only half the average funding for non-national roads for excample.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

I think people have argued the point with Fianna Fail supporters, but they have failed to come up with answers. I still haven't heard a good explanation for why Cork should get only half the average funding for non-national roads for excample.

well roads are not a very important issue on my agenda, so im afraid i haven't looked into this issue and wont be either. Sorry.

[Professor Piehead]

well roads are not a very important issue on my agenda, so im afraid i haven't looked into this issue and wont be either. Sorry.

A comon theme for Fianna Failure.

http://www.rsvshareholders. co.uk/assets/images/head_up_arse.jpg




P.s I've I have already told you I'm English, not a west brit, dunce.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

look up

attacking the person making the argument is the ultimate sign that you've lost



a shallow victory......but ill take it anyway

[jungle]

well roads are not a very important issue on my agenda, so im afraid i haven't looked into this issue and wont be either. Sorry.

How about the fact that Cork hasn't got any new buses since 2002?

Off your agenda too?

Docklands tax breaks?

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

How about the fact that Cork hasn't got any new buses since 2002?

Off your agenda too?

Docklands tax breaks?

i drive a car, haven't been on a bus in 20 years...and don't plan to use one for another 20
dockland tax breaks are been issued in line with national standers, just ask Callaghan ( another FF supporter )
or is it you want more tax breaks than other city developments.


bottom line, I'm entitled to vote for anybody i like, and so are you.
I'm not the one on here giving out to ye because of who ye vote for...in fact i don't even know who ye are voting for...that's you choice and i respect it...
please respect my choice and as you said earlier, 'attacking the person making the argument is the ultimate sign that you've lost'

[jungle]

The same as the Dublin Docklands would be wishful thinking. However, the EU granted permission for double tax relief for developments in the Cork Docklands and the government failed to introduce them in the budget.

The consequence is that the developers will sit on the land and not start anything until they see if the tax breaks turn up. Stifling development is a great policy.

O'Callaghan, now that makes me wonder... Seeing that he doesn't own many of the plots down there and is a major donor to Fianna Fail (or should I say the Taoiseach ;-) ), maybe it's in his interests to kill it for a while...

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

O'Callaghan, now that makes me wonder... Seeing that he doesn't own many of the plots down there and is a major donor to Fianna Fail (or should I say the Taoiseach ;-) ), maybe it's in his interests to kill it for a while...

i would kill it for a while myself.... fuck sake, they cant get rid of the existing units around the city at the moment.... only an idiot would build more now.

[jungle]

i would kill it for a while myself.... fuck sake, they cant get rid of the existing units around the city at the moment.... only an idiot would build more now.

They can't get rid of existing residential units. There's not so much issue with office space. And creating office space could help to fill the residential units. Anyway, you're looking at five to ten years of development there.

I would reduce the amount of residential provision in the Docklands.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

I would reduce the amount of residential provision in the Docklands.
turn it into a industrial estate... busy during the day/peak times and empty at night/off peak, so it would be a ghost town after 6.....ya i can see a lot of people queuing to buy there...

see that the difference between FF and the others....
thinking something through fully or just a quick knee jerk reaction like yours.

[jungle]

Reduce the residential provision so that people wouldn't be trying to buy residential properties there...

There's bugger-all point in building new housing if there's nowhere for people to work. Unless everyone is to work building houses.

Interesting that you think that Fianna Fail have thought this through. That means you think the lack of tax breaks is an agenda of some form...

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

That means you think the lack of tax breaks is an agenda of some form...

oh yes....definitely, and i support the same tax breaks issued to cork as any other city.

why give developers in cork ( the already rich) more tax breaks that developers in the rest of the country at the moment.... i don't understand...


i thought FF were the ones who want to keep the rich richer and the poor down.... didn't think id here it from you.... interesting

[jungle]

Cork is now slightly poorer than the national average having been slightly richer when the current government came to power.

Of course, when Dublin gets the IFSC tax breaks and those aren't reciprocated nationwide, that's no wonder.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

please post links to the 'facts' you are quoting... because my reading on the situation is completely different.

[jungle]

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action= check_download&ufid=61713F0D12F0A06 0&key=b5b3b21c8447f50e 791fc1e1c999d6e661a0 2700

A little out of date

It seems Cork's income fell from 99.5% to 97.6% in the first five years of the government.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action= check_download&ufid=61713F0D12F0A06 0&key=b5b3b21c8447f50e 791fc1e1c999d6e661a0 2700

A little out of date

It seems Cork's income fell from 99.5% to 97.6% in the first five years of the government.

ah jazzzus.....2002, is that where you are getting your figures....
sure no wonder we see things differently,
see I'm making my judgment on the current figures, not ones 5 years old.

that the difference between FF and the rest.....
we look to the future, ye look to the past.... (as by your own admission)
even the present is history in politics...

we in the FF party believe you should drive a car looking out the windscreen not looking out the back window, like your doing

[Proinsias]

ah jazzzus.....2002, is that where you are getting your figures....
sure no wonder we see things differently,
see I'm making my judgment on the current figures, not ones 5 years old.

that the difference between FF and the rest.....
we look to the future, ye look to the past.... (as by your own admission)
even the present is history in politics...

we in the FF party believe you should drive a car looking out the windscreen not looking out the back window, like your doing

What current figures??? I see no current or past figures to back up what you're saying.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

What current figures??? I see no current or past figures to back up what you're saying.


hello idiot...... I'm not giving facts or figures all I'm saying is i will be voting for FF and that is only my opinion...sorry no figures to back that up.
its jungle is giving all the fact and figures, i just asked him to post a link, turned out that his figures are all from 2001/02... and then this outburst from you....

wow you really missed the target that time dumb ass

[Proinsias]

hello idiot...... I'm not giving facts or figures all I'm saying is i will be voting for FF and that is only my opinion...sorry no figures to back that up.
its jungle is giving all the fact and figures, i just asked him to post a link, turned out that his figures are all from 2001/02... and then this outburst from you....

wow you really missed the target that time dumb ass

I think you'lll find that you're the one that is making baseless points. Look, you said the following:


see I'm making my judgment on the current figures, not ones 5 years old.


So I said "What figures?". The vast majority of job news out of Cork I've seen is bad. I would have extreme difficulty getting a job in Cork if I moved back. The transportation in Cork is a joke. Besides from a shiny new Pana, I see little positive change in the actual physical state of Cork, besides from horrifically ugly and privately built esates sprawling for miles and miles.

Interestingly, you also used "we" when referring to FF.


we in the FF party believe you should drive a car looking out the windscreen not looking out the back window, like your doing


I believe in public transport. I'm also a progressive who believes that bulldozering our history and replacing it with low quality tat is not such a great idea.

And you seem to be very keen on trashing the past there Pablo, and as George Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

ya i said i make my judgment on current figures...

what figures....the current ones dumb ass....


let me help you out here MY judgment...... MY.....
are ya getting me,
I'm not here shoving figures on anybody..... i am expressing my opinion
i am allowed that....

bet your embarrassed now... that's the problem with the opposition
jump into every issue, not reading or understanding it fully

you have proved a very good point....you would never see FF doing that.

[Proinsias]

ya i said i make my judgment on current figures...

what figures....the current ones dumb ass....

Current, where? What "current" figures? How much better off are people in Cork compared to the rest of the country since FF came to power? According to Jungle's numbers, Cork has been slipping behind on the national average until 2002. What about since then. Are we still behind the national average? have we slipped even further? You've come up with absolutely nothing at all to back your point up.

let me help you out here MY judgment...... MY.....
are ya getting me,
I'm not here shoving figures on anybody..... i am expressing my opinion
i am allowed that....

So you're just venting your own bias and can't back up your own opinion. you seem to think things are all rosy and that Cork has been looked after by the FF government. It hasn't. The development has mostly been Dublin focussed and Cork is suffering from chronic underinvestment in transport especially but public works in comparison to most parts of the country in general.



bet your embarrassed now... that's the problem with the opposition
jump into every issue, not reading or understanding it fully
you have proved a very good point....you would never see FF doing that.
I'm not in the slightest embarassed. Last time I voted, I voted for FF and the PDs. You seem to think that I'm fundamentally against FF. I'm not.

I'm pointing out that for Cork, FF have not been performing. My home town of Macroom has still not see hide nor hair of the bypass that was first proposed 30 years ago.
My old primary school is basically the old buildings surrounded by newer pre-fabs. They've been there for the bones of a decade now.

We're 29 out of 30 on money spent on secondary schools with class sizes still the same as they were before this boom began.

I thought FF were going to live up to their "Lots done, more to do" slogan but to be honest, the further along they go, the more I see a party that has been in power too long and has gotten complacent.

I also don't want to see FG get in either but whatcha gonna do.
My preferred option would be for FF to get a nasty shock and have to form a larger coalition with someone like the Greens or Labour. Shake the complacency out of them

[Tube a Pringles]

I think anyone voting in the next election for the current Government (especially in Cork) requires a frontal lobotomy.

....I'm expressing an opinion, I'm allowed that......

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

You've come up with absolutely nothing at all to back your point up.


what point..... the only point i have is i am voting for FF...

see jumping the gun again..... that is the main problem with the opposition...
inventing issues, that don't exist:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[doppellanger]

ya i said i make my judgment on current figures...

what figures....the current ones dumb ass....




he means his current account. :roll:

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

he means his current account. :roll:

as a FF man i would never have interest in somebody's current account...
only brown envelopes:mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen:

[rebs23]

Pablo,
as i stated in the start of this thread I have voted for FF in the past but given their record in relation to Cork issues (not the economy generally) I will not be giving them my vote.

When it comes to government and what governments can do and influence one of the few areas left (the economy generally speaking has very little to do with FF or the PD's) is regional development and ensuring a genuine and equitable spread of infrastructural development throughout the country.

This government believes the election will be won or lost in the Greater Dublin Area and so it has spent a vast amounts of money in trying to get votes there.

Dublin Port Tunnel, LUAS, Dublin Commuter Rail Network, New DART trains, New Dublin Bus routes and buses, E600 million on M50 toll buy out, another few hundred million on m50 extension and of course the proposed Dublin Metro. All massive infrastructural expenditure in one small area of Ireland that is choking under the pressure of the continuing centralisation of government jobs in Dublin and investment in Dublin promoted by the government (eg the tax breaks that were available in the IFSC and are currently available in the Dublin Docklands). The figures available in the publication "Review and Outlook for the Construction Industry" published by the Department of the Environment are truly shocking when it comes to regional infrastructural spending. An area with less than 50% of the pop is chewing up everything.

It cannot continue like this and the people of Cork need to send out a message at the next election that a county and city of 500,000 cannot be ignored when it comes to such infrastructural development. If we are Irelands second city then we need to get the projects, Government jobs, etc that should be in a second city.

Cork Airport, Midleton-Cork line, North Ring Road, Sarsfield Road flyover, Bandon Rd flyover, Cork -Limerick Rd, the Kent Station shambles, Cork Docklands all being held up directly as a result of Government decisions.

I really do hope FF get stuffed in Cork. Your pathetic personal attacks on other posters on here is arrogant and childish. Why don't you try and convince us of the reasons we should be voting for FF especially in the context of a lot of peoples grievances over the percieved lack of attention this government is paying to Corks Development. What measures are FF proposing to advance the Kent Station redevelopmet?, etc, etc

[Proinsias]

He won't listen y'know...

[Tube a Pringles]

Anti FF diatribe....

Jeez, you appear to be looking out the back window of the car. This is not the FF way.......

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

Pablo,
I really do hope FF get stuffed in Cork. Your pathetic personal attacks on other posters on here is arrogant and childish. Why don't you try and convince us of the reasons we should be voting for FF

why so blinkered...
my personal attacks are in my defence... but of coarse, you can see anybody attacking me for voting FF... just read back over the unprovoked personal attacks on me.... all i was doing is defending myself... buy your right, i shouldn't of let myself be dragged down, and enter into that pathetic behavior... that is not the FF way... we discuss openly and listen to all arguments with a unbiased ear

i will not convince any body of who to vote for... it is completely personal choice, and unlike you and many others i respect every body personal choice. Men have died to give us that freedom of choice and ironically most of them were FF heroes

[rebs23]

Fair enough then. We'll find out in a few weeks anyway.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

He won't listen y'know...

again, unlike you and the opposition parties
I do listen, i read and take on board what other people have to say and their views...
and again unlike you, i respect everybody's views/opinions.... i may not agree, but isn't that politics...

See we in FF listen to everybody's views, that the real difference.

[Professor Piehead]

again, unlike you and the opposition parties
I do listen, i read and take on board what other people have to say and their views...
and again unlike you, i respect everybody's views/opinions.... i may not agree, but isn't that politics...

See we in FF listen to everybody's views, that the real difference.

A dictionary is a most useful invention. English classes at night school may also come in handy.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

I still haven't heard a good explanation for why Cork should get only half the average funding for non-national roads for excample.

http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showthread.php?t=102 332

[jungle]

http://www.peoplesrepublico fcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showthread.php?t=102 332

Non-national roads

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

Non-national roads

ah yes... sure i knew it be something

[Professor Piehead]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm briefcase full of cash..........

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~albiec/homer_drool.gif

[jungle]

I actually wish FG would stop banging on about corruption. It plays very well as a story for those who were going to vote FG anyway, but there are plenty of people who would still vote for Bertie in the full knowledge that he's as bent as a hairclip and he manages to play the whole "they're all out to get me" card to gain sympathy.

If FG want to prosper in this election, they need to talk about health and transport/infrastructure. Nothing else. Those are the two big failings of this government and that's what people need to be reminded of, for the opposition to pick up votes.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

I actually wish FG would stop banging on about corruption.

i hope they don't, because every time they do, FF seems to go up in the polls.
It just goes to show, whatever confidence the people have in FF they have none at all in FG...
So Keep up the good detective work FG...

[mistertrixy]

I worked on the Ballincollig bypass for two summers when i was still in secondary school.
Few corkonians were employed on project, it was all turkish labourers who were recieving a fraction of my wage but were much older, much more experienced and much more qualified. This was not done in secrecy at all!
So maybe you can applaud its eventual completion but dont forget about all the poor f---ers they screwed to get it there!

Cork your a true FF head....you base everything on what is promised and what is going to happen thanks to the success story that is FF. Its a the biggest facade ever and im sure even you know this but your simply in denial.
Promises are simply promises.....can you honestly say that FF has made good of all their previous election promises?
FF are crooks who look after their wealthy friends and the farming contingent and hopefully this year somebody will replace these clowns.

[Professor Piehead]

Funny one in the paper yesterday, Bertie didn't pay vat on a 'pearl necklace' he gave to Celia Larkin. I didn't know he was that kinky, or that she charged him.

[jungle]

can you honestly say that FF has made good of all their previous election promises?

I think I'll bow to Michael O'Leary on this one...

THIS GOVERNMENT LIED…ON TRANSPORT
Ryanair, Ireland's largest airline, today (15th Apr) criticised the failure of Bertie Ahern's Government to keep its 2002 promises on transport.

In his 2002 Agreed Programme for Government, Bertie Ahern made the following pledges:


We will ensure a low cost facility is built in Dublin without delay - Page 14
We will ensure that our airports cater for the low cost sector - Page 14
We will develop the metro to Dublin airport by 2007- Page 13
We will progress a new independent terminal at Dublin airport - Page 14

Bertie has BROKEN his promises on all 4 counts.

Speaking today, Ryanair's Head of Communications Peter Sherrard said:

"Bertie's government cannot be trusted. It has failed to deliver on its Agreed Programme for Government and after the spectacular failure at Cork airport, Bertie Ahern is now allowing the DAA monopoly to build a Taj-Mahal second terminal at Dublin airport, which will cost €800m- four times more than the €200m cost when the DAA monopoly announced it in September 2005. If this goes ahead passenger charges will double.

"Had Bertie kept his promises, Irish passengers would now enjoy improved facilities and lower passenger charges at an independent second Dublin terminal. Instead, passengers are still stuck in queues and will have to pay DOUBLE because of Bertie's broken promises".

[Professor Piehead]

I think I'll bow to Michael O'Leary on this one...

Jungle, whats your take on the impending housing crash. The RTE show last night was on about a 30-40% crash like in Holland and the UK. I'm not that clued up on the subject but the economist from UCD was saying that over the last ten years the government has made a total bollocks of it, was he right?

[jungle]

Jungle, whats your take on the impending housing crash. The RTE show last night was on about a 30-40% crash like in Holland and the UK. I'm not that clued up on the subject but the economist from UCD was saying that over the last ten years the government has made a total bollocks of it, was he right?

Looking at the available yield from rents, you'd say that houses would need to reduce by about 15-25% to bring them into line with what is reasonable. Two or three years of stagnant house prices with current wage increases maintained would bring them back into line.

I wouldn't say that the government has totally mismanaged the situation. There certainly should have been some reform of the stamp duty system, but any attempt to bring down the price of houses would just have led to developers building fewer, which would have been even less desirable.

Remember that the only reason the UK market crashed was because of sterling falling out of the ERM and the massive increase in interest rates that was associated with it. The Irish housing market could react the same way to a similar shock, but being part of the Euro now, this is much less likely to happen.

[Professor Piehead]

Looking at the available yield from rents, you'd say that houses would need to reduce by about 15-25% to bring them into line with what is reasonable. Two or three years of stagnant house prices with current wage increases maintained would bring them back into line.

I wouldn't say that the government has totally mismanaged the situation. There certainly should have been some reform of the stamp duty system, but any attempt to bring down the price of houses would just have led to developers building fewer, which would have been even less desirable.

Remember that the only reason the UK market crashed was because of sterling falling out of the ERM and the massive increase in interest rates that was associated with it. The Irish housing market could react the same way to a similar shock, but being part of the Euro now, this is much less likely to happen.

Thanks. What if the dollar is devalued further? What about foreign construction workers going home, leaving empty houses?

[Proinsias]

Looking at the available yield from rents, you'd say that houses would need to reduce by about 15-25% to bring them into line with what is reasonable. Two or three years of stagnant house prices with current wage increases maintained would bring them back into line.

I wouldn't say that the government has totally mismanaged the situation. There certainly should have been some reform of the stamp duty system, but any attempt to bring down the price of houses would just have led to developers building fewer, which would have been even less desirable.

Remember that the only reason the UK market crashed was because of sterling falling out of the ERM and the massive increase in interest rates that was associated with it. The Irish housing market could react the same way to a similar shock, but being part of the Euro now, this is much less likely to happen.

Y'know what I reckon should have been done? A capital gains tax. A small one,1-3% , but something that could take the steam out of the market. When the market then eases off, like now, they could then drop it. Partially control supply, same way stamp duty partially controls demand.

We're reliant on stanp duty now though, but they could offset the effects of the drop, if it happens, by reducing the bands for the lower priced houses so that at least at the bottom end, where the bankrupcies are more likely it could be relieved a bit.

[PermanentMarker]

Fine Gael are taking very large donations (entirely legal) from National Toll Roads (it's on their official fundraising record) so I can't see them ruffling any transport feathers either. Developers are by far the biggest private donors to political parties which is worrying. These cunts aren't giving it out for the sake of the good of the country and democracy. I'm afraid that FG or FF will turn Cork into what Dublin is now if there's any more unrestricted development without proper services.

[jungle]

It's all part of the scam.

We can't have proper infrastructure in Cork because all the money is being spent retrospectively putting it into Dublin. This in turn means that when it finally gets put into Cork it will cost a lot more.

Big win for the construction companies.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

Fine Gael are taking very large donations (entirely legal) from National Toll Roads (it's on their official fundraising record) so I can't see them ruffling any transport feathers either.

ah sure FG what do ya expect

[doppellanger]

Y'know what I reckon should have been done? A capital gains tax. A small one,1-3% , but something that could take the steam out of the market. When the market then eases off, like now, they could then drop it. Partially control supply, same way stamp duty partially controls demand.

We're reliant on stanp duty now though, but they could offset the effects of the drop, if it happens, by reducing the bands for the lower priced houses so that at least at the bottom end, where the bankrupcies are more likely it could be relieved a bit.

Circular argument, I know, but reducing stamp duty won't necessarily reduce prices or stimulate demand.

It's like the first time buyers grant, it just gets priced in.

Everybody is clamouring for a reduction in stamp duty like they were clamouring for Lee Carsley before a Euro 2008 game a while back, but it may not be any more effective.

[langerdan69]

I won't vote for FF because they are a shower of arrogant, incompetent cunts who only care about themselves and what they can get out of it.

Bertie is the man who put Liam Lawlor on the dail ethics committee, gave Noel O Flynn a committee chair in the dail and made that convicted crook Ray Burke the foreign minister.

They take no responsibility for anything, everything they touch turn to dust and they make my blood boil.

I'll be voting green followed by Labour, hopefully between them and Labour they'll put manners on Fine Gael (who need to win a few extra too like!) to have some element of honesty in government. I'm probably dreaming that this will happen but 5 more years of those shower of cunts in FF is too depressing a prospect!!

Fuck FF

[ehrayeah]

sweet jesus I was getting scared for a while in Cork that nobody else thought FF were a shower of sh1tes

No way in heavens name will I vote for any of them

in carrigaline a local councillor running for the elections handed in a survey about the local transport and asked us to send it back. About 250 people did and lo and behold the man discovered that transport was shite. (Cue ray of light from the heavens landing on his head)

No plans of course on how to FIX the damn thing. He wants our vote now in the election so he can "work on our behalf to contact the relevant parties" and help fix it. Who are the relevant parties and how the hell is he going to do anything?

We now await a survey from Cork Clownty Council which did an official expensive survey which will tell us?......can anyone guess?......yes, thats it children, it will tell us we have a problem with transport in Carrigaline. I'm not sure if the councillor was very brave or very stupid as one of the questions was "do you feel the council are to blame for bad planning?" and over 90% of people said OF COURSE. and curiously its the local councillor who published this fact. Must have excaped his notice HE IS ON THE GAWDDAMN COUNCIL.

FF I pray with all my soul will suffer in this election, Bertie taking money, Cork Airport debt being landed on us, contempt for Cork while on same day spending 600m on a f&&king toll bridge in DUBLIN on an appalling contract signed by PEE FLynn, no docklands, no kent station, crap buses, Kinsale flyover 9 years late despite FF claim it was ahead of schedule and under budget, no Sarsfield flyover, no Bandon flyover and lads no night link, what a joke

Anyone who can tolerate Gimpy Cullen and Thick Roche in government has my pity. Noel O Flynn hasnt the slightest clue whats happening in the real world and on the election day remember how one of our own Ned O Keefe, after Cork was told Bertie would be shattering his promise to give us a debt free airport, Ned told the people of Cork to "stop whinging".

And i dont even WANT to vote for FG !!

[Gael]

Fine Gael are taking very large donations (entirely legal) from National Toll Roads (it's on their official fundraising record) so I can't see them ruffling any transport feathers either. Developers are by far the biggest private donors to political parties which is worrying.

Well the Green Party certainly intend to ruffle a few transport feathers and they also plan to have corporate donations banned, considering the extremely damaging effect big money donations in politics, has had on our democracy. FG won't get in without them. And FG needs the Greens a lot more than the Greens need them! Enda Kenny has admitted as much by recently saying that FG voters should transfer to the Greens after Labour.

[Pablo Escobar Gaviria]

Well the Green Party certainly intend to ruffle a few transport feathers and they also plan to have corporate donations banned, considering the extremely damaging effect big money donations in politics, has had on our democracy. FG won't get in without them. And FG needs the Greens a lot more than the Greens need them! Enda Kenny has admitted as much by recently saying that FG voters should transfer to the Greens after Labour.


not according to today's poll.

[ansypansy]

Green party = Police party. Just my humble opinion

[Gael]

Green party = Police party. Just my humble opinion

Not going to explain why you think so?

[KolaKubes]

Green party = Police party. Just my humble opinion

I suggest you move to Montana and shoot at cans with your assault rifle if you don't like it.

[ansypansy]

AS the saying goes: Be careful what you wish for you just might get it!