PDA

View Full Version : Tallaghtfornia: Thomas Davis' Vs Da Hooips


Sound
21-03-2007, 04:03 PM
HEADLINE: Minister sours the sweetest moments

BYLINE: Tom Humphries

BODY:


Locker Room: If there is one small fly in the ointment of joy that the wonderful and novel achievements of our cricketers in Jamaica have given us it is the suspicion that our Minster for Sport will demand any day now that GAA grounds be opened for the playing of cricket.

It has been a grand week for the Irish sports aficionado. Steve Staunton's droll press conference was followed by Ruby Walsh's glory and then the cricketing revolution. The rugby boys scored 50 points because they needed to; Sunderland won again; the cricketers became a great story; Ballyhale - the epitome perhaps of the possibilities and potential of the GAA - returned to eminence; and the Dub hurling evolution continued apace.

And all the while lurking behind the blue skies like a storm front was the grim, vinegar puss of John O'Donoghue, the last mealy, free-roaming mouth and curmudgeon still in existence outside of this column's acreage.

There were some who thought that when O'Donoghue made his comments a while back about the Solheim Cup and fashion for the ladies perhaps he had the brains of a rocking horse. We realise now of course that he has the heart of a lion. In a move distinguished by both electoral bravery and crass stupidity the Minister has chosen this time to put the boot into the GAA.

Fortunately, Kerry is not a GAA county or it might have cost him votes.

Thomas Davis, a GAA club whose volunteers have been working for the people of Tallaght since - well, since 1887 actually - are in the throes of a High Court petition seeking permission to bring a legal challenge on a decision that the new Shamrock Rovers stadium in Tallaght should be a soccer-only venue. Thomas Davis want to overturn South Dublin County Council's decision of February 13th, 2006, that the 6,000-seat stadium at Whitestown Way should be completed for the purposes of soccer only.

Readers with long memories will recall that back in 1995, when this saga began, South Dublin County Council had ambitions for a 20,000-seat stadium in Tallaght which would be multi-purpose and have James's Gate soccer club as the anchor tenant.

James's Gate were soon supplanted by Shamrock Rovers, the itinerant club who have never quite recovered from selling their splendid ground in Milltown a couple of decades ago.

Down through the years as Rovers changed hands and became involved in a variety of different deals the complexion of the Tallaght deal has changed repeatedly.

The stadium lies like a ghostly monument to incompetence. After a public-consultation process, and following a recommendation by the Tallaght Area Committee in November 2005, the county manager's proposal for a single-purpose venue was altered, getting everyone back to the idea of a multi-sport stadium involving the development of a larger pitch suitable for Gaelic games.

On December 12th, 2005, SDCC unanimously adopted a resolution in favour of this proposal.

Rovers seemed happy. The GAA seemed happy. John O'Donoghue? Not happy.

Extraordinarily, he announced he would only fund a soccer-only stadium. The SDCC, having little choice, passed a resolution on February 13th, 2006, which reverted to the soccer-only scheme.

By now most people will have their own opinions about the relative claims of the parties to the dispute. The GAA clubs (there are five other local clubs backing Thomas Davis) have been rooted and seeded in the community for generations. They have worked hard for what facilities they provide. Sometimes they have benefited from grant money and Lotto money; all the time they have worked themselves to the bone for the community.

Shamrock Rovers are a professional soccer club, a commercial enterprise. They chose to sell the best ground in the country. Through extraordinary mismanagement they have lacked a ground of their own since. Despite the lustre of their name and history they have proven themselves incapable of providing facilities for their own use.

For some reason John O'Donoghue has leapt in and promised to fork out millions of taxpayers' money to come to the rescue of this commercial organisation. This is generous, not just because of Irish soccer's long, prodigal history of squandering and blowing cash and failing to provide for drizzly days. It is generous because the Minister apparently feels the pain of every surrendered penny as if he were paying for it by sale of his own organs.

Heroically unembarrassed by recent criticisms of the physical-education facilities offered our increasingly obese children, the Minister instead rounded on the GAA, a body which on a volunteer basis provided for generations what passed for a sports policy in this country; the GAA, which has worked to be at the heart of every community; the GAA, whose clubs from Thomas Davis to Laune Rangers provide football, hurling, camogie and women's football for anything up to 50 teams week in and week out.

The Minister had the unfeasibly large cojones to suggest that because the GAA received some money from the Government in the last few years it should just shut up about Tallaght. The Minister suggested Lotto funds (set up for arts and sport, but ransacked by successive governments for health funding) were actually all part of his money from selling his kidneys.

In fact, it was Lotto funding which made up all but 19 million of the 114 million given to help build Croke Park (192 million is promised to Lansdowne Road, but we suspect that will never get built and rugby will go out on its own down in Ringsend).

Croke Park is the sort of infrastructural project the Lotto was designed for. O'Donoghue appears to think Lotto funding is a grace-and-favour scheme which might buy him the rights to the GAA's silence on all issues.

Warming to his theme, the Minister chose to ignore the spirit of the times we live in.

"I also find it quite extraordinary," he said, "that the GAA should wish to play Gaelic games in a soccer ground given their outright opposition to soccer being played in their own grounds."

Wow! Now the ignorance on display here is quite profound. It becomes us though to scorn the man's simplicity. It means either he hasn't noticed Wales will be playing Ireland in soccer at Croke Park on Saturday or he expects GAA clubs all over the country to begin throwing their overused, over-mortgaged grounds open to soccer.

The Minister, we are sure, knows this would be an arrangement which could never be reciprocated given the dimensions of the various pitches involved and the existing overuse of every GAA pitch in the land.

The Minister apparently wants the GAA, a community-based, volunteer-based cultural and sporting body, to carry the can for the long history of squandering and mismanagement which has blighted the world's greatest professional game as played in this country. Soccer, which once thrived here domestically, professionally and entertainingly, has become a grim sideshow of foreclosures and receiverships.

In Tallaght, the argument isn't against Shamrock Rovers, although John Donoghue planting Rovers there will inevitably hurt the GAA population. The point is that nobody feels Rovers have given enough to the community to merit the amount of State aid being allocated. There is an unfairness at the heart of the concept and the Minister's crass comments underline that.

The GAA has already been quietly hurt by the Government's decision to renege on an earlier promise that the rebuilt Lansdowne would have a pitch configured to permit the playing of the occasional GAA game.

The whispers are, though, that when the planning people get back this week the news will be that the stadium's proposed capacity will be whittled and the IRFU, a little surprised perhaps at the sweetheart of a deal the FAI were handed in the redevelopment master plan, will opt to cash in their chips in D4 and build elsewhere on their own steam (with, one hopes, appropriate Lotto funding to help). The Irish Glass Bottle Company in Ringsend would be the perfect site.

And so Irish professional soccer, a commercial enterprise which retails a genuinely beautiful game, but is domestically incapable of running its own business, will be homeless again. Will Minister O'Donoghue be able to find a way to blame it on the GAA? Of course he will.

Lamps
21-03-2007, 05:30 PM
great article

Sound
21-03-2007, 05:44 PM
He could have done with mentioning the planned GAA stadium in Rathcoole that will be partly funded by the taxpayer or the facilities Davis' already have for balance but it was still a decent piece.

STEVIEG
21-03-2007, 05:47 PM
it was still a decent piece.

so was this

http://i10.tinypic.com/350o1w2.jpg

markinmanc
21-03-2007, 07:15 PM
Hogwash - 6 GAA clubs want access to the stadium, not one, As much as I dislike Rovers they'll not be able to function - clubs will be taking them to court every week about access. The ground will be made suitable for GAA sports, not football. We can see the issues pitchwise re Croker and the footy team already.

GAA clubs have their house in order financially, fair dues to them, They have also got way more money than soccer has from the govt.

Shame on the GAA for personalising it.

And suspect the reason the ground is incomplete is due in part to the appeals and legal actions going on?

In Tallaght, the argument isn't against Shamrock Rovers, although John Donoghue planting Rovers there will inevitably hurt the GAA population. The point is that nobody feels Rovers have given enough to the community to merit the amount of State aid being allocated. There is an unfairness at the heart of the concept and the Minister's crass comments underline that.
So hurting Rovers will benefit the GAA - but that's just bonus. It's disengenous to suggest the money is going to Rovers - it's going to a stadium.

Unfair? That's the cry of someone who knows his argument doesn't hold water.
The article betrays a dislike of football which really renders the whole article worthless as a piece of 'balanced journalism'.

MonTheHoops
21-03-2007, 07:59 PM
Shame on the GAA for personalising it.


You're joking right?

The GAA got pulled from pillar to post over the last few years about the decision to play soccer and rugby in Croker. Had it been a private vote, with no media involvement, I'm still certain there'd be no "foreign" games in Croke Park.

A brand new stadium is to be erected in Tallaght and they want to seclude the place to a side who've had no fixed abode since God knows when and who have been as solid as jelly almost since their inception.

The GAA teams around the area deserve to be part of that stadium as much as anyone else.

markinmanc
21-03-2007, 09:50 PM
A brand new stadium is to be erected in Tallaght and they want to seclude the place to a side who've had no fixed abode since God knows when and who have been as solid as jelly almost since their inception.

The GAA teams around the area deserve to be part of that stadium as much as anyone else.

Which indicates the GAA anti-football West Brit mentality behind it all really.
I say again - if it's an all-sports venue, that means it will really be a GAA venue. The Shames 'deserve' nothing, yet GAA clubs do?

Was the ground not beng built basically for Rovers/soccer?

All credit to the GGA for opening Croker, but rather than them being 'forced' to open their venues to foreign soprts it seem the GAA want other venues open to them.
When Lansdowne is built the GAA will no doubt want access to that - or will they object to that not beingsuitable for their needs?

optimus
22-03-2007, 12:39 AM
rovers shouldnt be allowed to be the only tenants .
they sold there own ground wasted the money from that had close to a million euro wtitten off by the govt and now want funding for a stadium. they should be sponsored by st vincent de paul. good job begging isnt illegal anymore rovers can fundraise cap in hand now out in the open.

Rebelred
22-03-2007, 08:52 AM
Which indicates the GAA anti-football West Brit mentality behind it all really.
I say again - if it's an all-sports venue, that means it will really be a GAA venue. The Shames 'deserve' nothing, yet GAA clubs do?

Was the ground not beng built basically for Rovers/soccer?

All credit to the GGA for opening Croker, but rather than them being 'forced' to open their venues to foreign soprts it seem the GAA want other venues open to them.
When Lansdowne is built the GAA will no doubt want access to that - or will they object to that not beingsuitable for their needs?

the pitch in Lansdowne will be nowhere near big enough for GAA.

Great article in the original post

markinmanc
22-03-2007, 11:06 AM
the pitch in Lansdowne will be nowhere near big enough for GAA.

Great article in the original post

Did I say that in my post? Breheny has an article in the Indo today, rather sickening - GAA bullied into opening Croker, yada yada. Another article going on how revenue is down (eh?).

Haven't the GAA been offered another ground dedicated to their own needs in South Dublin?

In the mentioned article it is implied that 'foreign sports' will have things made difficult for them.

The GAA: what other kind of organisation can complain about making millios of € in profit.

Rebelred
22-03-2007, 11:57 AM
Did I say that in my post? Breheny has an article in the Indo today, rather sickening - GAA bullied into opening Croker, yada yada. Another article going on how revenue is down (eh?).

Haven't the GAA been offered another ground dedicated to their own needs in South Dublin?

In the mentioned article it is implied that 'foreign sports' will have things made difficult for them.

The GAA: what other kind of organisation can complain about making millios of € in profit.
that would be fine if the GAA's main aim was profit making... it's not. Its about the promotion of Irish sport and culture.

markinmanc
22-03-2007, 12:46 PM
that would be fine if the GAA's main aim was profit making... it's not. Its about the promotion of Irish sport and culture.


Don't think the GAA is sure what it is any more.

Lamps
22-03-2007, 01:04 PM
Don't think the GAA is sure what it is any more.

:rolleyes:

shut the door on the way out lad

Sound
22-03-2007, 01:20 PM
From Foot.ie:

For all those undecided as to whether it actually makes PHYSICAL sense to have a full-sized GAA pitch in Tallaght Stadium - leaving out any other arguments for a moment - just watch the Ireland v Wales game. You will note the huge expanse around the edge of the soccer pitch. A space that could easily be used to build an average size housing estate.

That should end that argument. It simply doesn't make sense to have GAA and soccer LONG TERM in the same stadium. In fact it's ludicrous. The two pitch sizes aren't remotely compatible.

Croke Park is a different matter. Pitch-wise, it's a very unsatisfactory solution - but it's only a very temporary SHORT TERM solution, made more bearable by the fact that all the soccer games there should be close to sell-out.

However in Tallaght Stadium, for the sake of having the possibility of playing an occasional GAA game there, Shamrock Rovers are expected to play EVERY home game out in the middle of a vast empty expanse - miles away from the crowd. With half of the originally-planned spectator facilities left unbuilt to make room for the GAA pitch.

A farcical situation - pure and simple.

John O'Donoghue is NOT anti GAA and never has been. He simply wants to build a stadium which prioritises soccer (and rugby). A stadium built to soccer (and rugby) specifications.

What he is clearly saying to the GAA is "Listen guys..... we gave you huge financial help with Croke Park..... you got further millions upon millions in grants for the excellent stadiums and clubhouses springing up all over the country..... we are giving you money to pay your players..... you will continue to receive generous financial help in the future..... but this one is for soccer. YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING."

markinmanc
22-03-2007, 01:24 PM
Sound, don't let the facts confuse the anti-West Brit country tools carrying on like it's still 1920 and the 'Tans are still around the corner.

Lamps
22-03-2007, 01:26 PM
I think its time the GAA started throwing their weight and influence around.

I'm guessing well over half the TDs in the country are members of GAA clubs and there's an election brewing.

Rebelred
22-03-2007, 01:31 PM
Don't think the GAA is sure what it is any more.

if you're going to make a general statement like this, at least back it up with some points.

Lamps
22-03-2007, 01:33 PM
if you're going to make a general statement like this, at least back it up with some points.

I think he qualified it with something about west brits and tans.

Quailty material

Rebelred
22-03-2007, 01:44 PM
I think he qualified it with something about west brits and tans.

Quailty material

ah yes, that's exactly what the GAA stands for too y'know!

markinmanc
22-03-2007, 01:59 PM
Goms Against All?

Sound
22-03-2007, 02:11 PM
If anyone wants to address some of the points in the articles or details of each situation, please feel free.

markinmanc
22-03-2007, 02:13 PM
If anyone wants to address some of the points in the articles or details of each situation, please feel free.


I find being hateful more fun!:D

Forsberg
22-03-2007, 02:18 PM
If anyone wants to address some of the points in the articles or details of each situation, please feel free.

Sound, you should know by now that's not the way this forum work

Lamps
22-03-2007, 02:37 PM
If anyone wants to address some of the points in the articles or details of each situation, please feel free.

I feel free.

Sound
22-03-2007, 02:43 PM
I feel free.

Good stuff!

Drive on.

Lamps
22-03-2007, 02:46 PM
Good stuff!

Drive on.

At this stage in the game I think everyone knows what everyone else thinks on every subject.

Things need freshening up. I'd consider throwing my wait behind the Sundireland revolution if there was any decent opposition

Sound
22-03-2007, 02:52 PM
At this stage in the game I think everyone knows what everyone else thinks on every subject.

Things need freshening up. I'd consider throwing my wait behind the Sundireland revolution if there was any decent opposition

No-one has any idea what you really think as I'd estimate that 99% of the stuff you come out with on here is just for a reaction.

For example, in your heart of hearts you probably agree with what Roy said about the attitude of the FAI becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy for the Ireland team but you'd never say it as it'd run counter to your agenda.

Plenty of scope to freshen things up- surgeon heal thyself.

STEVIEG
22-03-2007, 02:57 PM
No-one has any idea what you really think as I'd estimate that 99% of the stuff you come out with on here is just for a reaction.

For example, in your heart of hearts you probably agree with what Roy said about the attitude of the FAI becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy for the Ireland team but you'd never say it as it'd run counter to your agenda.

Plenty of scope to freshen things up- surgeon heal thyself.

He's actually a huge fan of Fergie too

Lamps
22-03-2007, 03:01 PM
No-one has any idea what you really think as I'd estimate that 99% of the stuff you come out with on here is just for a reaction.

For example, in your heart of hearts you probably agree with what Roy said about the attitude of the FAI becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy for the Ireland team but you'd never say it as it'd run counter to your agenda.

Plenty of scope to freshen things up- surgeon heal thyself.

The INTERNET is about fun, Sound. I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Lamps
22-03-2007, 03:01 PM
He's actually a huge fan of Fergie too

I've never seen a more vile creature.

Honestly

Sound
28-03-2007, 12:29 PM
Madam, - We were quite dismayed by the tone of Tom Humphries's remarks on Shamrock Rovers and the stalled Tallaght stadium development (Locker Room, March 19th).
While complimenting the voluntary community efforts of others, he described Rovers as "a professional soccer club, a commercial enterprise", completely ignoring the fact that it is a not-for-profit, community-based football club owned and run by its members.
While our first team is professional, the rest of the club is almost exclusively run by volunteers, and our schoolboy section caters for hundreds of youngsters across South Dublin. Shamrock Rovers has also established a range of scholarship schemes offering educational opportunities to students at primary, secondary and third level.
Shamrock Rovers is a model employer and taxpayer. Since its supporters took over in 2005, the club has been run on sound business principles and by the end of this season will have contributed around €500,000 to the national coffers. We even turned a small profit last year which was, as a matter of course, reinvested in the club.
Mr Humphries writes that "nobody feels Rovers have given enough to the community to merit the amount of State aid being allocated" for Tallaght. Considering that our club's package of sporting, educational and employment opportunities are unique, not just in South Dublin but in Irish sport, we would beg to differ. And not just in word but in deed. - Yours, etc,
MARK LYNCH, (On behalf of Shamrock Rovers FC board of directors), Centrepoint Business Park, Dublin 12.

ho chi feen
28-03-2007, 02:33 PM
Madam, - We were quite dismayed by the tone of Tom Humphries's remarks on Shamrock Rovers and the stalled Tallaght stadium development (Locker Room, March 19th).
While complimenting the voluntary community efforts of others, he described Rovers as "a professional soccer club, a commercial enterprise", completely ignoring the fact that it is a not-for-profit, community-based football club owned and run by its members.
While our first team is professional, the rest of the club is almost exclusively run by volunteers, and our schoolboy section caters for hundreds of youngsters across South Dublin. Shamrock Rovers has also established a range of scholarship schemes offering educational opportunities to students at primary, secondary and third level.
Shamrock Rovers is a model employer and taxpayer. Since its supporters took over in 2005, the club has been run on sound business principles and by the end of this season will have contributed around €500,000 to the national coffers. We even turned a small profit last year which was, as a matter of course, reinvested in the club.
Mr Humphries writes that "nobody feels Rovers have given enough to the community to merit the amount of State aid being allocated" for Tallaght. Considering that our club's package of sporting, educational and employment opportunities are unique, not just in South Dublin but in Irish sport, we would beg to differ. And not just in word but in deed. - Yours, etc,
MARK LYNCH, (On behalf of Shamrock Rovers FC board of directors), Centrepoint Business Park, Dublin 12.

Kudos.

ho chi feen
28-03-2007, 02:35 PM
Madam, - We were quite dismayed by the tone of Tom Humphries's remarks on Shamrock Rovers and the stalled Tallaght stadium development (Locker Room, March 19th).
While complimenting the voluntary community efforts of others, he described Rovers as "a professional soccer club, a commercial enterprise", completely ignoring the fact that it is a not-for-profit, community-based football club owned and run by its members.
While our first team is professional, the rest of the club is almost exclusively run by volunteers, and our schoolboy section caters for hundreds of youngsters across South Dublin. Shamrock Rovers has also established a range of scholarship schemes offering educational opportunities to students at primary, secondary and third level.
Shamrock Rovers is a model employer and taxpayer. Since its supporters took over in 2005, the club has been run on sound business principles and by the end of this season will have contributed around €500,000 to the national coffers. We even turned a small profit last year which was, as a matter of course, reinvested in the club.
Mr Humphries writes that "nobody feels Rovers have given enough to the community to merit the amount of State aid being allocated" for Tallaght. Considering that our club's package of sporting, educational and employment opportunities are unique, not just in South Dublin but in Irish sport, we would beg to differ. And not just in word but in deed. - Yours, etc,
MARK LYNCH, (On behalf of Shamrock Rovers FC board of directors), Centrepoint Business Park, Dublin 12.

Kudos.

Lamps
28-03-2007, 02:55 PM
Madam, - We were quite dismayed by the tone of Tom Humphries's remarks on Shamrock Rovers and the stalled Tallaght stadium development (Locker Room, March 19th).
While complimenting the voluntary community efforts of others, he described Rovers as "a professional soccer club, a commercial enterprise", completely ignoring the fact that it is a not-for-profit, community-based football club owned and run by its members.
While our first team is professional, the rest of the club is almost exclusively run by volunteers, and our schoolboy section caters for hundreds of youngsters across South Dublin. Shamrock Rovers has also established a range of scholarship schemes offering educational opportunities to students at primary, secondary and third level.
Shamrock Rovers is a model employer and taxpayer. Since its supporters took over in 2005, the club has been run on sound business principles and by the end of this season will have contributed around €500,000 to the national coffers. We even turned a small profit last year which was, as a matter of course, reinvested in the club.
Mr Humphries writes that "nobody feels Rovers have given enough to the community to merit the amount of State aid being allocated" for Tallaght. Considering that our club's package of sporting, educational and employment opportunities are unique, not just in South Dublin but in Irish sport, we would beg to differ. And not just in word but in deed. - Yours, etc,
MARK LYNCH, (On behalf of Shamrock Rovers FC board of directors), Centrepoint Business Park, Dublin 12.

This kind if reminds me of the famous Chris Rock sketch Blacks V N*ggers

He says an N is always lookin for credit a normal man just takes for granted.

An N says " I take care a my kids"
You're supposed to ya dumb mutha focka

An N says with pride "I aint never been to jail"
You aint supposed to expect to go ta jail ya low ex-pect-ation havin MF.

And so on and so forth

its funnier when he says it

Coin
05-04-2007, 01:49 PM
Why does the fact that the GAA doesn't have to pay for its product ever come up in these discussions? If Cork City were told they didn't have to pay their players I'm sure they could find something useful to do with the hundreds of thousands they'd save each year.

ho chi feen
05-04-2007, 02:39 PM
The GAA has really covered itself in glory in this whole shambolic debacle.

Alan Smith
05-04-2007, 02:47 PM
Who gives a fuck it will never be finished anyway